Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Schnee117]

TBF menus always do that thing where the food looks better than what it actually is. You ever go to a fast food joint and the burger on the menu doesn't look like it'll give you a heart-attack? You can't really tell if food's gonna be worth your time by just looking at menus or reviews, especially if it's a different cultural restaurant because then it's an entirely different eating experience.
.

I mean, that's the case with all products really, even games.
They gotta sell to people so they gotta try and look the best they can.

 

[Will]

It's like you guys just willed them into existance...

They're watching us, I swear...

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, that's the case with all products really, even games.
They gotta sell to people so they gotta try and look the best they can.

Which is kind of my point. I get tired of research and doing what y'all say and "google" when it can just end up being mediocre anyways.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

TBF menus always do that thing where the food looks better than what it actually is. You ever go to a fast food joint and the burger on the menu doesn't look like it'll give you a heart-attack? You can't really tell if food's gonna be worth your time by just looking at menus or reviews, especially if it's a different cultural restaurant because then it's an entirely different eating experience.

I went to a pizza joint at a carnival with my brother. Overpriced as ****, the pasta was somewhat uncooked, they didn't even give you the sauce that was in the image! It was awful.

Actually for the pasta bit, that means it was cooked al dente, where the pasta isn't fully cooked to give it a bit more bite iirc

When I looked up a restaurant for a party I was invited to by colleagues, I just read the menus, because then you can tell what's wrong or not or of there's something in the dish you can't see from a glance for allergies.

Also you can totally check out experiences from people you know, which I always use above any professional reviews as I trust people who know me and my tastes better than literal randos, because my friends know I can't stand tomatoes and cheese so they'll go "Yeah you wouldn't like it there, that restaurant barely serves anything without cheese and the stuff they serve without cheese is really spicy". I didn't get interested in DMC because of reviews from outlets, I got interested because my closest friends told me about the stuff they figured I'd like about it

 

[SmashChu]

Damn didn't know SmashBoards is the only viable thing to show how much a character is requested!

NVM the fact that twitter has plenty more active users, Rayman still consistently makes it into the top 10 requested character polls. His demand is still there and going strong. Y'all don't have to like him, I know there's plenty of bias against him here, but to keep saying over and over he ain't iconic and not demanded and treat it like is fact is a little unfair

First, popularity polls don't mean too much, but if you look at the biggest Smash Poll run, the Reddit poll (had 6,500 submissions) Rayman was #15 below Captain Toad, Rex, Bandanna Dee and Crash.

Second, I think saying that people disagreeing with you is bias and how everyone is unfair and a bit childish. The arguments brought in this thread were very fair and it's not that people even dislike him, it's just they want other characters more. I mean, you run the Rayman twitter. You've only talked about Rayman in this thread. I think it's a mischaracterization to say everyone else is bias when they don't fawn over Rayman.

And the truth is that Rayman does have a lot of issues

• Lack of Success in Japan - To put it frank, Rayman sells awfully in Japan. Rayman Legends only sold 1,500 in its first week in Japan. While yes this is the Wii U version, the ports did poorly as well. Even King of Fighters 14 sold 40K in 10 days so the comparison to Terry isn't applicable either. The problem is that Nintendo (and Sakurai) are Japanese people picking the characters. If the character isn't that popular in their home country, then they aren't going to look at it that closely. And it's hard to justify Rayman as DLC when he's practically unknown in one region and his popularity in other regions is poor. Characters like Ridley and Little Mac had the benefit of being owned by Nintendo but Rayman is a license character. There are more characters that do better in Japan and are popular overseas
• Waning Popularity - Rayman has been a weird character because his rise was often based on the Wii/Wii U titles and being in Smash. He caught on when the Rayman trophy was included in Smash 4, but people forget that the reason those things are there is because Nintendo published Rayman Legends in Japan (and its always Rayman Legends stuff in Smash). The Artsy Omni fake helped too. But since then there hasn't been anything in Rayman's favor so he's starting to decline. Someone else brought up the comparison to Reimu so let's compare. You mentioned the Rayman Twitter has 3100 followers. But the Reimu one has 4,200 followers. Even the Reimu Smashboards thread has more views and replies despite being made months later. These are tangential, sure, but I think it shows where Rayman really sits. There hasn't been a new Rayman game since 2014 so people are naturally gravitating to other characters
• Moveset Potential - Rayman doesn't have a lot that he can do that makes him stand out in anyway. The most obvious thing, his lack of limbs, is distinct but likely wont result in an interesting moveset. Its more visual than anything and, it may result in more programming niggles the team will have to deal with. All of the DLC have been very unique but Rayman doesn't really have any obvious that would make him unique in the way the rest of the DLC is.
• Other Ubisoft Characters - Lastly, the other major issue is that if Nintendo was going to add a character from Ubisoft, why wouldn't they just go with someone else. Assassin's Creed is a bigger series, even in Japan, and its one that has influenced Nintendo's game (such as the towers from BoTW). If Nintendo wants to go to Ubisoft for a character, why wouldn't they just go with Ezio. Assassin's Creed is a bigger series and one that would get people talking.

I think the issue is when you focus so much on a single character it's hard to get an idea of how popular they are in the greater scheme of things. Rayman isn't this massively popular character that is going to get in any minute now. Sure, maybe Nintendo will prove me wrong and add Rayman. Crazier things have happened. But there is a reason why people aren't banking on Rayman even if they'd like to see the character. It's more than just "they're bias and hate Rayman".

 

[osby]

The best comparison I can use for familiar vs unfamiliar characters is the experience of deciding whether or not you should eat at a new restaurant.

Yeah, taking a chance and trying new restaurants can pay off, but you're always taking a gamble. You could end up with the best meal of your life, or you could get an overpriced meal that was bland and flavorless. You can try doing some research before going, but how much research are you expected to do before your friends will be satisfied with your disinterest in the restaurant? Sometimes you just want to eat at the reliable chain restaurant that everyone has eaten at. May not be the most adventurous choice, but you know exactly what you're getting and you like it. You shouldn't be criticized for rejecting the new restaurant over the one you've ate at several times.

I think a lot of people here are quilty of getting so caught up in their own positive experiences that they forget that other people may have not felt the same way about a character they never heard of. I'm sure a lot of people didn't know (or barely knew) who Joker was. Many people were glad he got in because it introduced them to a game they thought they might like. Others? They may have taken a couple of minutes to look at a P5 trailer or look at a few screenshots before deciding that this game wasn't for them. Are they still wrong if they complain about Joker? Should we berate them for not watching the whole game on YouTube? Should we tease them about how picky they are? Obviously any franchise that gets in Smash should be universally agreed to be a franchise worth playing. Those who think otherwise must not be trying hard enough to like the game, otherwise their reaction would be the same as everyone else's.

It's perfectly OK to be conservative in your interests. But then you'll have to accept that more open-minded people will get more satisfaction from the newcomers than you. You keep bringing up how people oversell the first pass but did you think that maybe they're just more open to being introduced to new things?

I'm not saying you should feel bad for not liking new stuff or you're not allowed to dislike newcomers. But it seems weird that you openly admit being picky and then complain about newcomers not being appealing for you. There simply aren't that many globally known characters left. You have to accept that sticking to your existing interests makes it less likely for any newcomer to be exciting for you.

Also, we get it, you didn't know who Joker was

 

[Schnee117]

Which is kind of my point. I get tired of research and doing what y'all say and "google" when it can just end up being mediocre anyways.

It's not really about the perceived quality (which varies with each person) so much as it is just making people less ignorant of what gets added.
If people aren't a fan of what gets added that's fine. It's when people insist on championing their ignorance that issues start happening like with Fire Emblem all the time or DQ or SNK.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I like that by this rubrik the only DLC character people can be reasonably expected to actually know is Piranha Plant.

...honestly? Yes. Heck, I'll even go back to Sm4sh DLC as well - Ryu and Cloud win the 'iconic' award considering they're the faces of Street Fighter and Final Fantasy respectively, which are the definitive fighting game and JRPGs. Those two are definitely living-under-a-rock level - if you don't know them, you at least know about them.

Bayonetta though? Corrin? Even Roy and Lucas for people who didn't play Smash Melee or Brawl? I suppose Mewtwo would be a bit more on the well-known side, but it does require people to know the earlier Pokémon games to the end.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say most people know Skyrim as just Skyrim. I personally know of The Elder Scrolls ??? Morrowind, and The Elder Scrolls Online. I also know of the other titles, but I can't name them.

Yeah, nobody really knows Arena or Daggerfall - they were both PC exclusive from the 90s (and you thought that other Bethesda games were buggy...). Most Elder Scrolls fans started with Morrowind in 2002, and that was also the first that was available on console as well: the original XBox. That's where I started. Great game, I really want to see that one remastered. Then there was Oblivion in '06 (which released in PS in '07 and got a JP localization as well).

ESO actually isn't a numbered sequel, and is actually set about 750 years before Morrowind/Oblivion and about 950 before Skyrim.

From my perspective, anytime there's been a playable character added from a series I haven't played, I investigate and try to get a game with that character to try.

To the point that, "People have characters they want, so of course they don't want other characters". As somebody who previously wasn't into picks like Phoenix Wright, Travis Touchdown, and others, I say, "How do you know you don't want them if you don't know anything about them?"

Not to mention, this is a website that gathers fans of many different series and characters, and gaming experiences. Sure, everyone has their own interests. But to actively not investigate or try to learn more about other games sort of designates a closed mentality...not looking into new things, only looking at things one knows as acceptable. It's rigid, and in a case where the prospects of characters that can be added has been essentially blown wide open, suggests that folks who only want a specific set of characters have limited knowledge overall of the characters that are added.

In regards to "not knowing" certain characters, while I wouldn't use the word "blame", I would simply say that it's a two way street in a sense. While the game needs to draw interest from a player, we're using the internet to discuss this stuff. "Ignorance" of something is not really an excuse to not have knowledge of something, when you have the internet to have unlimited information. This brings me back to my first point. How can you possibly know you're not interested if you don't have knowledge or experience with something? The answer is, you simply can't.

I probably had said, "Why would I play Metal Gear?" when Snake was added because I was basically a Mario and Pokemon junkie. It was essentially all I played. But had I not made the leap of faith there, I would have never experienced the social commentary of Metal Gear and having Snake as one of my favorite characters of all time, would have never set out on the journey that is playing all of these many new games, and gathering the oh so important perspective of what each of these series and characters brings to the table.

Even if I don't like something, sometimes I have to teach it. That's just how it goes. Likewise, to be taken seriously in some discussion, it's important to come to the table with an informed perspective. That's my thing...I've played many games to know what I am personally interested in for Smash, but I still am trying new things. I'm open-minded about it, or at least try to be open-minded to new things once I have the chance to experience them.

Not that this is a "college" environment, but when I attended I was expected to have information regarding a particular discourse prior to partaking in it. Even in high school, to be involved in a discourse, you have to have the knowledge concerning it in order to learn and partake from it. This obviously can go either way...somebody who has first party knowledge but limited third party knowledge, and vice versa.

Not everybody is going to like everything. But unless you investigate and open up to new possibilities, how can you know? I think something that might help is if maybe folks bring in some material for folks to read about a character or series. Maybe that's the middle man?

I think one of the main issues here is a difference in thinking about Smash: is it a venue to introduce people to various new things, or a video game hall of fame?

People who see this as the "Nintendo All-Stars" (now Video Game All Stars) game are likely to be more critical of the characters, as if there is some bar that needs to be crossed in order to deem a series as important enough to get in. Therefore if they need to research something extensively, then it seems to be shoved in without regard to its importance. These people tend to be more cautious in general, maybe they don't like to be pushed outside of their comfort zones, especially by the "try it, you'll like it" crowd. They see it as some random street artist getting an exhibit in the Met.

People who see Smash as a way to open their minds to new series understandably want to see new things. They want new faces and new experiences. They're excited to see what new experiences they can have and the new friends they can make along the way. They see the former group as a bit stick-in-the-mud. And they see instead the next Banksy.

I think both can be right. I'm pretty set in my ways with games, and just seeing a character isn't going to inspire me to pick up their game. What will get me into other series is watching a friend play it - that's how I got into Elder Scrolls, Assassin's Creed, Soul Calibur, etc. I also have some characters I like even though I wouldn't play their games. When I play RPGs, I want a giant open world real-is-brown first-person usually-medieval-fantasy spend-three-months-creating-the-character-and-writing-the-backstory that I get from TES; the JRPG style doesn't mesh with me. But I still love playing Ike in Smash. But I can still look at my stats, and the ones I play the most are the ones I know from outside games, and the ones I play the least are the ones who I don't play and am not interested in their games.

Then again, I'll also go Resident Evil as an example: I wasn't against Leon/Jill/etc. getting in, but I was very 'meh' to them since I hadn't played the games, but I did know of them. I just knew that zombie/horror/shooter wasn't my cup of tea. But then I saw a Lets Play on youtube (actually ended up there since they had probably the best MK fatality reactions videos) and I enjoyed watching them play the RE2make. Even went and got it for myself when it was on super Black Friday sale. Still suck at it since I can't aim worth ****, but doing that did make me more open to seeing the RE crew in Smash. Until they got Spirited anyway, so...

Another factor with the DLC is that we do still need to pay for it. Having a 'new experience' character in base is one thing, you can easily decide to play them or not. But choosing to spend my money on some character that I could potentially like, but based on historical precedent I won't, why would I? What makes this JRPG character (or whatever) so much different than the other JRPG characters I've played and not had fun with, especially if I'm already biased against the character since I don't know them in the first place?

If you don't mind me asking, could you share which characters you're referring to in this part? I think I already know which characters apply to these statements, and if I'm right then I mostly agree.

The first pass was...okay. I do feel like Smashboards has a tendency to oversell it, especially if you're someone like me who wasn't immediately won over by Joker (he's a really specific character from a single game exclusive to PS4). We got Banjo, even though he wasn't really a character I wanted. Hero is arguably the biggest addition of the five, which is a shame because he comes from a franchise whose popularity has stayed mostly in Japan.

Spoiler: Spoiler tagged so as not to offend anyone unintentionally. Note that these are just my opinions.

I'm pretty excited about Banjo - never played his game, but he just fits in the world and the music's great. I've played DK64, so I have a bit of a connection. I was always kinda indifferent towards him, but his reveal did shove me over the edge and I'm pretty excited to get him eventually.
Byleth is standard. I'm annoyed that FE is getting overdone in the character department, especially as a Zelda fan, but what's selling me is the stage and music. FE does need more stages, and the 'bridge' version of the stage looks great.
I understand the importance of DQ, so I'm on the fence with Hero. The moveset is unnecessarily complicated (I even think Shulk is too complicated for me), and the fact that all the names are weirdly baby-talk like 'Katwizzle' is off-putting to say the least. Still, Yggdrasil looks beautiful, pity that the songs are all obvious MIDIs.
Terry is just another character for me. I have no association with anything SNK, so that doesn't do much for me. The stage is basic, and honestly there's too much music there which makes sitting there and listening to it a bit of a chore. I'm really not that impressed with him.
Joker on the other hand - 0/10 for me. I don't like the 'angsty teen' look, I'm not a huge fan of the manga style, and there's something that's really disorienting about trying to mesh 'edgy' with 'cute kitty polymorphic thing' that just rubs me completely the wrong way. Persona's exclusive to PS and I've got an XBox, so I can't even play it if I wanted to; the fanbase's continual insistance that 'won best RPG and nominated for GOTY' is reason enough to include him while overlooking things like Skyrim which actually won both is also annoying. I've seen screenshots of the game, and the impact menus give me a headache - really don't like the aesthetic at all. And the character has a complex gimmick, and I'm biased against gimmicky characters - I like basic heavyweights best. Add to that the stage has the same primary color and harsh lines look that I find really ugly, and the fact that I listened to every song and didn't even find one that I somewhat liked... There's nothing I find redeeming about Joker at all. There's only one way I'd even consider getting him, and that's if Dovahkiin gets in because then I'd buy all the DLC hands down.

 

[Cosmic77]

Maybe I'm just weird but we live in a day and age where you can literally look up menus on websites of the restaurants in advance, if you're curious, you can literally look it up and see for yourself if it's worth it, this analogy only ends up proving how ignorance in knowledge lies by yourself at that point

Well, that's another point I was getting at. How much knowledge does it take before people will finally respect your negative/neutral opinion of a DLC character?

A lot people have the mentality that if you've never actually played the game, then you have no right to complain about the character being in Smash. They'll respond to you in a way that suggests they think you haven't done enough research, and some will take it a step further and assume that the content in Smash is the only knowledge you have of the franchise and its characters.

There are a couple of characters in this pass that I had barely heard of prior to their announcement. Did a little bit of research, but I wasn't won over. I don't think my opinion that they should've chosen someone else is invalid, and I don't think it's fair for anyone to assume I'm picky or at fault for not forcing myself to show interest in playing a new game. New characters aren't always a positive experience for everyone, and that's something people will just have to respect.

 

[Deleted member]

Also you can totally check out experiences from people you know, which I always use above any professional reviews as I trust people who know me and my tastes better than literal randos, because my friends know I can't stand tomatoes and cheese so they'll go "Yeah you wouldn't like it there, that restaurant barely serves anything without cheese and the stuff they serve without cheese is really spicy". I didn't get interested in DMC because of reviews from outlets, I got interested because my closest friends told me about the stuff they figured I'd like about it

I agree, at least when my friends actually do warn me I wont like it, but that's my point. "Googling" **** doesn't really make me get anything besides a vague generalization. I just stick to what I know at the end of the day and try stuff out when I feel like it, and that gets me by pretty frequently.

Also for the pasta, we just got less than what was pictured. Like literally, we got a small size for what supposed to be a medium sized dish, and there were no size size options for it. Like Gwen, I'm not underexaggerating that what they showed was just straight up was not what we got lol. I looked it up afterwards; they got the photo from google images.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's perfectly OK to be conservative in your interests. But then you'll have to accept that more open-minded people will get more satisfaction from the newcomers than you. You keep bringing up how people oversell the first pass but did you think that maybe they're just more open to being introduced to new things?

I'm not saying you should feel bad for not liking new stuff or you're not allowed to dislike newcomers. But it seems weird that you openly admit being picky and then complain about newcomers not being appealing for you. There simply aren't that many globally known characters left. You have to accept that sticking to your existing interests makes it less likely for any newcomer to be exciting for you.

Also, we get it, you didn't know who Joker was

Actually, the point I was trying to make is that I don't think I'm picky.

There are hundreds and hundreds of franchises out there. Why should I be accused of being picky based on my response to five characters, especially when more than half of the characters come from the same genre?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I personally feel like no amount of googling, reviews/retrospectives and Smashboards character shilling threads can ever present a better argument for why some characters should be playable than actually playing the game itself.

You can call me lazy for not using the infinite resources of the internet to learn about Joker, Hero and Terry and the merits of their series that warranted a Smash invitation, I question what's the point because the characters I'm being condescended to for the sin of ignorance are either on systems I don't want to buy or genres I'm generally not interested in.

How about we cut a deal; You allow me to be excited to see some spinoff character from a game 20 years ago that hasn't seen any sequels or rereleases since, and I don't complain when Dragonborn/Gordon Freeman/Minecraft Steve/Jonesy gets added to Smash over characters I actually know about.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Then there was Oblivion in '06 (which released in PS in '07 and got a JP localization as well).

Oh! I think I've played that one in the actually. I picked a lizard dude, nearly drowned, walked out of a cave, and stopped playing. Keep in mind I was, like, 7 at the time.

EDIT: Or maybe I didn't. From what I searched, Oblivion was on the X-Box 360, and I had just the normal X-Box.
EDIT EDIT: Might have been Morrowind actually. Weird. I could've sworn it was called Oblivion.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not really about the perceived quality (which varies with each person) so much as it is just making people less ignorant of what gets added.
If people aren't a fan of what gets added that's fine. It's when people insist on championing their ignorance that issues start happening like with Fire Emblem all the time or DQ or SNK.

Tbh, I see more instances where people champion knowing everything about a series just because someone doesn't get it. Probably doesn't help that these argument gets recycled every week here just with a different coat of paint in the form of another fighter.

I've also met plenty of people who make me try their stuff out, but when I bring my interests up, they give me indifferent responses. Happens in this thread too. So I'm also pretty cynical about this topic because with my past experiences, it comes off less as destroying ignorance and more "how dare you not know about my interests."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Moveset Potential - Rayman doesn't have a lot that he can do that makes him stand out in anyway. The most obvious thing, his lack of limbs, is distinct but likely wont result in an interesting moveset. Its more visual than anything and, it may result in more programming niggles the team will have to deal with. All of the DLC have been very unique but Rayman doesn't really have any obvious that would make him unique in the way the rest of the DLC is.

I don't even care about Rayman but Sakurai's adding a character from a game where all you have is Left Punch, Right Punch, Grab, Super and Gimmick next, added a character who only laughs at the player for missing 3 shots, added a character who isn't even a character but assorted sprites jumbled together, a character who's entire arsenal is acrobatics and a near useless stungun and plenty more, this is a ****ing buzzword argument

Well, that's another point I was getting at. How much knowledge does it take before people will finally respect your negative/neutral opinion of a DLC character?

A lot people have the mentality that if you've never actually played the game, then you have no right to complain about the character being in Smash. They'll respond to you in a way that suggests they think you haven't done enough research, and some will take it a step further and assume that the content in Smash is the only knowledge you have of the franchise and its characters.

There are a couple of characters in this pass that I had barely heard of prior to their announcement. Did a little bit of research, but I wasn't won over. I don't think my opinion that they should've chosen someone else is invalid, and I don't think it's fair for anyone to assume I'm picky or at fault for not forcing myself to show interest in playing a new game. New characters aren't always a positive experience for everyone, and that's something people will just have to respect.

In the case of Smash characters, literally all you need is an idea of who they are and what they can do and maybe 10 minutes of gameplay footage at most, that's barely any time cost. What convinced me to support K.Rool in Smash 4? Just looking up 3 boss fights to see what he could do. What convinced me that Lloyd Irving did nothing to me? Seeing his attacks in an Arte compilation and a quick check on the wiki. If you've indicated that you've at least tried, nobody can really fault you. If the people who went "LITERALLY WHO I'M SUPER HARDCORE INTO GAMING AND I'VE NEVER HEARD OF DRAGON QUEST" at Erdrick went "I don't care for Erdrick, I looked them up but they didn't interest me" instead, I can assure you, they wouldn't be mocked nearly as hard. At most someone will ask what you don't like about the character, which should be as easy as drinking a glass of water

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Broke: requesting Female Byleth emote
Woke: requesting premium post BG of Joker’s School Uniform. I mean they got both Bayonetta variations

 

[SNEKeater]

Late to the party but I'd like to add as well on the topic of many people not being able to play every game is that not everyone can afford two current gen consoles. I couldn't justify purchasing a Switch and a PS4; I'm sure I'd enjoy many PS4 games but I only have so much money and free time. My first console was a PS1 so I'm not blinded by nostalgia.

I wish the snarky passive aggression against "Nintendo fans who only know Nintendo games" would chill, it makes visiting this thread unpleasant and exclusionary. Is it really a shock that people who buy a Nintendo Switch and Smash Bros also typically are more familiar with Nintendo games?

If I'm being honest I can't see at all this "passive aggression" against Nintendo fans who only know about Nintendo related games. Personal preferences aside, I don't think anyone in the last pages has been mean towards the idea of adding more Nintendo characters to Smash.
Nintendo fans are to begin with the first ones who don't know everything about Nintendo, and that's completely fine. Some didn't know about Fire Emblem, F-Zero or Kid Icarus until Smash, and as I said, that's okay. So, not knowing some non Nintendo franchises is as well fine, no one will hit you because you didn't know about Persona until Joker's reveal.

As I always say there are A LOT of games and franchises, and of course, Nintendo isn't the only one that makes games and sells consoles. Not being aware of every character in the world doesn't mean you're a fake gamer or something like that. Evidently, not everyone has the access to buy multiple consoles, and each person circumstances are different. In USA King of Fighters and SNK weren't really popular or that is what it seems, then you have Latin America or China, where SNK games have, or at least they had in the past, a lot more of presence. A lot of franchises are in similar situations, in fact, a game series being popular everywhere doesn't seem the rule to me, in any case a successful franchise around the world sounds like the exception to me.

It isn't a shock that the regular guy who buys a Switch to play Smash and has been playing on Nintendo platforms since he was a kid ends being mostly familiar with Nintendo characters. That's completely normal. But when I always talk about this subject, I always talk about the more dedicated community of people who plays games and are somewhat informed about general gaming news. These people usually follow some Twitter accounts related to games or they're followers of some gaming related Youtube channels. I'm not even talking about people who frequently visits gaming websites and participate in forums such as this one.

Beyond all of this, it's just that not knowing something doesn't mean it isn't popular. A lot of people seems to assume that if they don't know something, that's because that thing in particular is super obscure and known by literally 5 individuals or something like that, instead of looking at this new thing and ask themselves: "why people like this? I'm curious" and then do a quick research.

My point is, if Dante gets eventually added to Smash, I won't feel offended if some fans react with a "uh? I never heard of him", because it's completely okay to not know something, is impossible to be aware of every game and every character out there, and I'm personally happy of that because that means I will learn about series that I didn't know before, which is something I find cool.
If anything, I would feel offended if people reacted just like "who's this nobody? Who asked for him? This ****ty character doesn't deserve to be in this game because I say so, gimme what I want because my most wanteds are, without a doubt, known by everyone in the world".
Obviously I'm exaggerating, but the problem is that you could find answers and reactions of that type during Pass 1, even if those reactions were the minority. Those people are just being obnoxious and unpleasant.

 

[KillerCage]

At the very least, Rayman would be a perfect fit in terms of aesthetics and moveset, hell he already has half a Smash moveset in the Origins/Legends games.

I think Rayman's limbless boby offers an unique concept that cannot be replicated by anyone else except for Sukopon.

"Max Brass Joins the Battle" seems a little underwhelming as a tagline as well. Disappointed with that fake's lack of pun creativity.

New game: come up with a tagline for one of the ARMS characters as if they are a newcower to Smash Bros.
Here is mine:
"Min Min serves out a fight!"

 

[Cosmic77]

Tbh, I see more instances where people champion knowing everything about a series just because someone doesn't get it. Probably doesn't help that these argument gets recycled every week here just with a different coat of paint.

I've also met plenty of people who make me try their stuff out, but when I bring my interests up, they give me indifferent responses. So I'm also pretty cynical about this topic because with my past experiences, it comes off less as destroying ignorance and more "how dare you not know about my interests."

Everyone perceives things differently, which is why these arguments are so frequent.

Three Houses is a pretty good example. You've got people who played the game, liked it, and were thrilled to see it get a character, people who played it, liked it, but still didn't want a character, and people who never played the game and didn't want a character. Doesn't help when any of these three types of people start labeling each other, such as claiming someone would like literally any FE character or assuming someone complaining about Byleth should automatically be lumped together with the "too many anime swordsman" crowd.

 

[Slime Master]

I think the issue with complaining about characters that aren't for you is the complaining part. It's an attitude problem more than anything. I'm probably not going to play a persona game anytime soon, nor have I done anything more than surface level research on the series; I just have too big of a backlog and too little free time to bother. But I don't complain about Joker being in smash. I don't feel a need for every bonus character in a roster that already had over 70 characters to appeal to me. Especially considering said character came from a recent critically acclaimed game and a lot of people were super excited for him. I'm fine if you decide DQ is not for you, but complaining that DQ (a top 3 gaming franchise in Japan that popularized one of the most prolific genres to date) got in smash is just kinda silly.

At the same time though, I get wanting people to do more than just a surface level look. It definitely bothers me when people just google DQ and decide they have no interest in it, especially since I think a surface level view of DQ fails to catch the subtleties and nuances that make it my favorite franchise ever. But again, it bothers me much less when people act more respectful about it than just going "looks boring".

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think Rayman's limbless boby offers an unique concept that cannot be replicated by anyone else except for Sukopon.

New game: come up with a tagline for one of the ARMS characters as if they are a newcower to Smash Bros.
Here is mine:
"Min Min serves out a fight!"

"Byte and Barq challenge Lyte and Darq!"

That's the best I've got.

 

[Will]

How about we cut a deal; You allow me to be excited to see some spinoff character from a game 20 years ago that hasn't seen any sequels or rereleases since, and I don't complain when Dragonborn/Gordon Freeman/Minecraft Steve/Jonesy gets added to Smash over characters I actually know about.

throw scorpion in there and you have a deal, random stranger

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Byte and Barq challenge Lyte and Darq!"

I love it.

EDIT: If this was the tagline, it would be an automatic main for me.

 

[GoodGrief741]

the point that, "People have characters they want, so of course they don't want other characters". As somebody who previously wasn't into picks like Phoenix Wright, Travis Touchdown, and others, I say, "How do you know you don't want them if you don't know anything about them?"

Sometimes it's just super easy to tell you won't like a character or game, though. Someone who doesn't like visual novels won't want to try out Ace Attorney. If you're not into over the top anime aesthetics, you probably watched the NMH3 trailer and figured it wasn't for you. Even as a huge fan of those franchises, I can't blame someone that doesn't give them a try if they can make a pretty safe assumption that they won't like it.

And when you got no emotional connection, what's left? That would be whatever knowledge you have of the series, whether that be about its history, financial performance, influence, etc. And that's ultimately what it boils down to: some people think a character is worth adding, and some don't.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

oh no people are telling me i have to do google search about video game character

its so hard to go click clack on the keyboard and read the wikipedia, or watch a video showing gameplay or commentary

and i am a very busy person with no freetime (ignore the excess amount of free time i have due to quarantine) so i do not even have time to do the wikipedia and youtube

how dare people have moderately high expectations of me

>:^(

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I just kind of try to roll with the punches with character inclusions, try to appreciate them for what they have rather than focus on what I’d rather have.

I only got one character I was specially hoping for last pass, but that ain’t necessarily a bad thing. My wants are not the only wants.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sometimes it's just super easy to tell you won't like a character or game, though. Someone who doesn't like visual novels won't want to try out Ace Attorney. If you're not into over the top anime aesthetics, you probably watched the NMH3 trailer and figured it wasn't for you. Even as a huge fan of those franchises, I can't blame someone that doesn't give them a try if they can make a pretty safe assumption that they won't like it.

And when you got no emotional connection, what's left? That would be whatever knowledge you have of the series, whether that be about its history, financial performance, influence, etc. And that's ultimately what it boils down to: some people think a character is worth adding, and some don't.

Pretty much this.

This happens and reality is, yeah, people won't be interested. It's not honestly a big deal anyway.

I mean, this isn't the same thing as stuff like "anime swordsman" which is intentionally meant to deflame characters and not be constructive. It's just a lack of interest. People don't need to be forced to do any research either(not that research is bad. But if they're not interested, let it go, you know?). Obviously it's not that hard to educate people on points they're actually wrong on, but stuff like getting emotionally wrapped into defending a character isn't any better than people being emotionally wrapped into hating a character. It's just a game. It's not that big of a deal anyway.

 

[osby]

oh no people are telling me i have to do google search about video game character

its so hard to go click clack on the keyboard and read the wikipedia, or watch a video showing gameplay or commentary

and i am a very busy person with no freetime (ignore the excess amount of free time i have due to quarantine) so i do not even have time to do the wikipedia and youtube

how dare people have moderately high expectations of me

>:^(

Speak for yourself, I don't have any expectations from this fandom since the day I saw Geno supporters complain about niche characters.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I think Rayman's limbless boby offers an unique concept that cannot be replicated by anyone else except for Sukopon.

New game: come up with a tagline for one of the ARMS characters as if they are a newcower to Smash Bros.
Here is mine:
"Min Min serves out a fight!"

"Twintelle takes center stage!"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

limbless boby

This sounds like an Earthbound enemy. lol

I think Rayman's limbless boby offers an unique concept that cannot be replicated by anyone else except for Sukopon.

I'm not sure it would make for a good moveset hook, but it would offer some unique interactions due to his attacks being kind-of-but-not-really disjointed.

EDIT: Also, I'd love for Sukapon to be the next retro character.

New game: come up with a tagline for one of the ARMS characters as if they are a newcower to Smash Bros.
Here is mine:
"Min Min serves out a fight!"

"Spring Man springs into action!"

...
...
...Yes I know it's low hanging fruit! You got anything better?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sometimes it's just super easy to tell you won't like a character or game, though. Someone who doesn't like visual novels won't want to try out Ace Attorney. If you're not into over the top anime aesthetics, you probably watched the NMH3 trailer and figured it wasn't for you. Even as a huge fan of those franchises, I can't blame someone that doesn't give them a try if they can make a pretty safe assumption that they won't like it.

And when you got no emotional connection, what's left? That would be whatever knowledge you have of the series, whether that be about its history, financial performance, influence, etc. And that's ultimately what it boils down to: some people think a character is worth adding, and some don't.

I think that’s fine, but it becomes frustrating when it’s very much along, no pun intended, “party lines”.

As I’ve said prior, there’s quite frankly nothing wrong with having particular interests. I think my only feeling with the situation is that there are groups of folks who just will not try something because it isn’t Nintendo, which then informs their opinion that, “It shouldn’t be in Smash”. It’s informed by the expected biases of the fanbase of a Nintendo game.

There’s also the context of where Smash currently is. The roster is largely Nintendo already, with their largest characters, most iconic characters, all fitted into the roster. If you’re a Nintendo fan there’s plenty to choose from already.

For me, at least, in a situation where most big Nintendo characters are in Smash, and DLC seems to lean to 3rd party or “shill picks”, folks might say, “Gah! I simply CANNOT believe they didn’t add a Nintendo character!” It’s like the Surprised Pikachu meme of Smash speculation.

The situation does not set up some characters to be made playable, or at least I think we can agree to that. Folks who have limited interests, such as being interested in 3 series that respectively have the most content in the game, and only those three series, are setting themselves up with strict “win conditions”.

These win conditions then set them back in the cycle of disappointment and, “I can’t believe it!” Which then sets a tone of “If it’s not X, Y, or Z, I’m not pleased” which is nothing other than a closed minded mindset.

I mean hey, everybody has their interests, and they’re entitled to them. But that’s my perspective.

 

[Deleted member]

I just kind of try to roll with the punches with character inclusions, try to appreciate them for what they have rather than focus on what I’d rather have.

I only got one character I was specially hoping for last pass, but that ain’t necessarily a bad thing. My wants are not the only wants.

This was pretty much Smash 4 for me. The only characters I was really wanting was Palutena and Miis, and then Palutena ended up not being super fun for me lol.

Despite that, Smash 4 was some of the most fun I've had with the series.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Speak for yourself, I don't have any expectations from this fandom since the day I saw Geno supporters complain about niche characters.

no you dont get it i dont want people to ask anything of me i just wanna complain about the characters in funny fighting party game how dare people ask anything more of me

>:^(((

 

[Cosmic77]

oh no people are telling me i have to do google search about video game character

its so hard to go click clack on the keyboard and read the wikipedia, or watch a video showing gameplay or commentary

and i am a very busy person with no freetime (ignore the excess amount of free time i have due to quarantine) so i do not even have time to do the wikipedia and youtube

how dare people have moderately high expectations of me

>:^(

no you dont get it i dont want people to ask anything of me i just wanna complain about the characters in funny fighting party game how dare people ask anything more of me

>:^(((

This isn't helping. I don't know if you're specifically referring to people who refuse to research a character, but seriously, how many people in this thread can you call out who have openly admitted that they have done absolutely no research on a character who they despise? They didn't read a summary of the game, didn't look at a few screenshots — they've made it their goal to avoid anything and everything involving that character.

I highly doubt there are as many people who fit that description as this thread claims, especially since newly revealed Smash characters tend to be trending searches online shortly after they're revealed.

Like others have pointed out, sometimes you can already get a good grasp on whether or not you'll like a game. I don't see a need to be condescending.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This was pretty much Smash 4 for me. The only characters I was really wanting was Palutena and Miis, and then Palutena ended up not being super fun for me lol.

Despite that, Smash 4 was some of the most fun I've had with the series.

I was the opposite for Palutena. I really wanted Medusa instead.

...I unironically found Palutena super fun to play as and worked on maining her. She clicked to me.

Though I love Mii Fighters too. Freaking awesome idea~

I love the game too, that said. It helps that it gave me fun stuff to do by quite a bit. 3DS and Wii U versions as well. I love me some mini-games. Target Blast!! oddly is the first Target Test variation I liked playing over and over again. Probably cause it was randomized and I could grind trophies/customs too, so. I do like grinding. Just my cup of tea, heh.

 

[ZelDan]

It's okay to not know things, not want to research, be disappointed by things, etc. At the end of the daym, don't be a prude or have your head up your ass about it.

basically falls under my usual saying of "it's okay to not like things, just don't be a **** about it."

honestly the only FP1 character I really gave any ****s about is Byleth and you never saw me **** on the previous 4 characters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think that’s fine, but it becomes frustrating when it’s very much along, no pun intended, “party lines”.

As I’ve said prior, there’s quite frankly nothing wrong with having particular interests. I think my only feeling with the situation is that there are groups of folks who just will not try something because it isn’t Nintendo, which then informs their opinion that, “It shouldn’t be in Smash”. It’s informed by the expected biases of the fanbase of a Nintendo game.

There’s also the context of where Smash currently is. The roster is largely Nintendo already, with their largest characters, most iconic characters, all fitted into the roster. If you’re a Nintendo fan there’s plenty to choose from already.

For me, at least, in a situation where most big Nintendo characters are in Smash, and DLC seems to lean to 3rd party or “shill picks”, folks might say, “Gah! I simply CANNOT believe they didn’t add a Nintendo character!” It’s like the Surprised Pikachu meme of Smash speculation.

The situation does not set up some characters to be made playable, or at least I think we can agree to that. Folks who have limited interests, such as being interested in 3 series that respectively have the most content in the game, and only those three series, are setting themselves up with strict “win conditions”.

These win conditions then set them back in the cycle of disappointment and, “I can’t believe it!” Which then sets a tone of “If it’s not X, Y, or Z, I’m not pleased” which is nothing other than a closed minded mindset.

I mean hey, everybody has their interests, and they’re entitled to them. But that’s my perspective.

It really just depends on what you think Smash is. People have varying degrees of "Nintendo connection" they're willing to accept before a character seems out of place. For some people, third party characters were a mistake. For others, who cares about Nintendo connection? And there's a ton in between those two. Like Garteam said, Smash is going through an identity crisis, and different people have different expectations of what Smash is and should be. So tension between those different perspectives at this point is unavoidable unless all character picks appeal to the lowest common denominator (and even then you have people who are against "expected characters", which makes pleasing everyone impossible).

 

[Deleted member]

I was the opposite for Palutena. I really wanted Medusa instead.

...I unironically found Palutena super fun to play as and worked on maining her. She licked to me.

Though I love Mii Fighters too. Freaking awesome idea~

I love the game too, that said. It helps that it gave me fun stuff to do by quite a bit. 3DS and Wii U versions as well. I love me some mini-games. Target Blast!! oddly is the first Target Test variation I liked playing over and over again. Probably cause it was randomized and I could grind trophies/customs too, so. I do like grinding. Just my cup of tea, heh.

Smash 4 is when I started going for hype Captain Falcon and Ganoncides, so it's honestly all I needed.

Smash Tour was weirdly fun with friends despite not beinh Smash Run.

The DLC newcomers were extremely fun even if I conceptually gave no ****s about Ryu or Cloud. Cloud's dumb bustersword was so fun.

no you dont get it i dont want people to ask anything of me i just wanna complain about the characters in funny fighting party game how dare people ask anything more of me

>:^(((

Why you gotta be a troll now, TPC? You're inciting more problems than calling them out, which people have already called out.

 

[KillerCage]

This sounds like an Earthbound enemy. lol


I'm not sure it would make for a good moveset hook, but it would offer some unique interactions due to his attacks being kind-of-but-not-really disjointed.

EDIT: Also, I'd love for Sukapon to be the next retro character.


"Spring Man springs into action!"

...
...
...Yes I know it's low hanging fruit! You got anything better?

Here is my response:
"Spring Man stretches his arms!"

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think Rayman's limbless boby offers an unique concept that cannot be replicated by anyone else except for Sukopon.

New game: come up with a tagline for one of the ARMS characters as if they are a newcower to Smash Bros.
Here is mine:
"Min Min serves out a fight!"

“Dr. Coyle Begins The Experiment!”