Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think the overall concept that the “Nintendo relationship” is what got characters in...like, we have been through this numerous times. It has turned into this idea that, unfortunately, it seems Nintendo “purists” peddle constantly.

If it were about Nintendo history, the 3rd party roster would look very different. Cloud, for example, is the Final Fantasy Protagonist probably least associated with Nintendo prior to Smash, yet he was the one chosen. Why? Because he’s Cloud Strife. He was not chosen because of a minor appearance in a Final Fantasy spin-off title. Arguing that to show “Nintendo ties” is silly when there are other Final Fantasy characters that would have been connected to Nintendo in a better way, like Terra Branford.

Snake is another 3rd party highly connected to Sony, not Nintendo. Yes, Metal Gear Solid has the remaster of MGS1, but he was added simply because of the friendship between Kojima and Sakurai. Nintendo execs were actually against the idea at first, but here we are. If it were about Nintendo relationships, I don’t actually know if it would have gone that far.

Joker is literally tied to PlayStation exclusivity in mainstream Persona titles. A spin-off that many folks don’t even know exists is not what got Joker into Smash. Persona 5 being an amazing crossover opportunity is what got Joker into Smash.

It’s time we faced the facts: Sakurai has literally said that appearing on Nintendo platforms is essentially a nice touch, but not necessary. If it is not necessary to the head dev/director of the game, then it is clear that it does not hold legitimate bearing on character choices aside from the desires of fans on a Smash Bros. Forum.

The reality is that it is not a major determining factor to character selection. It’s best to move on from that as an argument. There are great characters and series that are missed out on or not given a fair shake here because they aren’t on Nintendo consoles, and that is a shame.

Please realize that there are plenty of quality titles outside of Nintendo consoles that historically are better performing and more critically acclaimed than some of the games that have appeared on Nintendo consoles.

 

[I.D.]

How many of you guys actually expect a Smash reveal if we do get a direct this month?

100%
Byleth's presentation was recorded four months ago.
Six months ago in the last Nintendo Direct they explicitly said additional DLC fighters were already "in development". Not planned, not coming, but in development.
Sakurai said the first fighter of season 2 would take some time to reveal, but that doesn't necessarily mean half a year you know. If it had been a couple of weeks that would have been doubtful, but two months after announcing season 2 seems reasonable enough.
Even taking into account Christmas/New Years vacations, I find it extremely hard to believe the next fighter isn't in a presentable state by now.

Besides, Nintendo just loves putting Smash announcements in Directs.

 

[cosmicB]

It’s time we faced the facts: Sakurai has literally said that appearing on Nintendo platforms is essentially a nice touch, but not necessary.

Wait, when did he say this? I thought the "must have appeared in one shape or another on a Nintendo console" was a direct quote (not verbatim obviously). Is this just something that got repeated so many times a lot of people believed it to be true?

Because again, that rule has never been broken.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think the overall concept that the “Nintendo relationship” is what got characters in...like, we have been through this numerous times. It has turned into this idea that, unfortunately, it seems Nintendo “purists” peddle constantly.

If it were about Nintendo history, the 3rd party roster would look very different. Cloud, for example, is the Final Fantasy Protagonist probably least associated with Nintendo prior to Smash, yet he was the one chosen. Why? Because he’s Cloud Strife. He was not chosen because of a minor appearance in a Final Fantasy spin-off title. Arguing that to show “Nintendo ties” is silly when there are other Final Fantasy characters that would have been connected to Nintendo in a better way, like Terra Branford.

Snake is another 3rd party highly connected to Sony, not Nintendo. Yes, Metal Gear Solid has the remaster of MGS1, but he was added simply because of the friendship between Kojima and Sakurai. Nintendo execs were actually against the idea at first, but here we are. If it were about Nintendo relationships, I don’t actually know if it would have gone that far.

Joker is literally tied to PlayStation exclusivity in mainstream Persona titles. A spin-off that many folks don’t even know exists is not what got Joker into Smash. Persona 5 being an amazing crossover opportunity is what got Joker into Smash.

It’s time we faced the facts: Sakurai has literally said that appearing on Nintendo platforms is essentially a nice touch, but not necessary. If it is not necessary to the head dev/director of the game, then it is clear that it does not hold legitimate bearing on character choices aside from the desires of fans on a Smash Bros. Forum.

The reality is that it is not a major determining factor to character selection. It’s best to move on from that as an argument. There are great characters and series that are missed out on or not given a fair shake here because they aren’t on Nintendo consoles, and that is a shame.

Please realize that there are plenty of quality titles outside of Nintendo consoles that historically are better performing and more critically acclaimed than some of the games that have appeared on Nintendo consoles.

Yet to my knowledge every third party in smash has at least one game on Nintendo.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yet to my knowledge every third party in smash has at least one game on Nintendo.

Is that a correlation, or causation?

Many 3rd parties have appeared on Nintendo consoles, but simply appearing is not the same thing as having this major relationship or history with Nintendo.

Even so, that argument affecting character choice is moot when considering the choices we have gotten. It’s just like the conversation of cramming characters from first party series into Smash as advertisements of games they don’t even appear in: Its trying to find ways to make it work when it doesn’t really make as much sense.

What makes more sense as to why Joker got into Smash?

A: Persona 5 was a mainstream hit and was quite different from everything in Smash

or

B: He appears in a Persona spin-off title on 3DS.

Seems pretty clear to me it has much more to do with A than B.

 

[pinshadow]

I think the overall concept that the “Nintendo relationship” is what got characters in...like, we have been through this numerous times. It has turned into this idea that, unfortunately, it seems Nintendo “purists” peddle constantly.

If it were about Nintendo history, the 3rd party roster would look very different. Cloud, for example, is the Final Fantasy Protagonist probably least associated with Nintendo prior to Smash, yet he was the one chosen. Why? Because he’s Cloud Strife. He was not chosen because of a minor appearance in a Final Fantasy spin-off title. Arguing that to show “Nintendo ties” is silly when there are other Final Fantasy characters that would have been connected to Nintendo in a better way, like Terra Branford.

Snake is another 3rd party highly connected to Sony, not Nintendo. Yes, Metal Gear Solid has the remaster of MGS1, but he was added simply because of the friendship between Kojima and Sakurai. Nintendo execs were actually against the idea at first, but here we are. If it were about Nintendo relationships, I don’t actually know if it would have gone that far.

Joker is literally tied to PlayStation exclusivity in mainstream Persona titles. A spin-off that many folks don’t even know exists is not what got Joker into Smash. Persona 5 being an amazing crossover opportunity is what got Joker into Smash.

It’s time we faced the facts: Sakurai has literally said that appearing on Nintendo platforms is essentially a nice touch, but not necessary. If it is not necessary to the head dev/director of the game, then it is clear that it does not hold legitimate bearing on character choices aside from the desires of fans on a Smash Bros. Forum.

The reality is that it is not a major determining factor to character selection. It’s best to move on from that as an argument. There are great characters and series that are missed out on or not given a fair shake here because they aren’t on Nintendo consoles, and that is a shame.

Please realize that there are plenty of quality titles outside of Nintendo consoles that historically are better performing and more critically acclaimed than some of the games that have appeared on Nintendo consoles.

Can you sincerely argue that Joker being in Smash Bros had nothing to do at all with the fact that Nintendo has a great relationship with Atlus? That if they had never worked on anything together, that if Atlus hadn't been a big supporter of the 3DS, that if SMTV wasn't among the first Switch games announced, that Nintendo would have still put Joker in the game?

I just don't see a world where Nintendo is picking the characters and they decide to add a bunch of characters who have no Nintendo Switch presence. Especially when you look at their 5 choices and you get "one first party who is only here because their game was new", "two third parties with plenty of presence on Switch", "one third party with no Switch presense but was among the most requested characters at the time", and "one third party who's franchise has little presense on Nintendo outside of spinoffs but who's home company has a great relationship with them".

At this point, the number of characters/franchises that people actively want in Smash right now that don't have some kind of Switch/Nintendo presense is pretty damn small with how much third parties are actually supporting the damn thing for once.

 

[Schnee117]

Wait, when did he say this? I thought the "must have appeared in one shape or another on a Nintendo console" was a direct quote (not verbatim obviously). Is this just something that got repeated so many times a lot of people believed it to be true?

Because again, that rule has never been broken.

Here:

Sakurai: Exactly. And within the FF franchise, Cloud is without question the most popular choice. A number of people fixate on the fact his original game was never released on a Nintendo console, but if we were to limit our choices to characters who appeared on a Nintendo console, we’d end up with Bartz from FFV or the Onion Knight from FFIII—how would that work? Maybe they could change jobs or something… Actually, that would be kind of interesting (laughs).

(Everyone laughs)

Sakurai: At the same time, I think it’s only natural to prioritize the character who enjoys worldwide popularity. I might have had misgivings if Cloud had never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, though.

Note how they don't factor in spin-off appearances for Cloud and the use of the word "Might"

And is followed by

—Recently, he’s shown up in the Theatrhythm and Kingdom Hearts series. He’s even branching out to the PS4 now with the FFVII remake.

Sakurai: Which is why I think we should forget about console wars and focus on what’s really important: enjoying the games themselves.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Edit: whoops, Schnee beat me to the punch

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why would we even WANT a Direct honestly? We're gonna complain about what they're gonna show us in it anyway.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Can you sincerely argue that Joker being in Smash Bros had nothing to do at all with the fact that Nintendo has a great relationship with Atlus? That if they had never worked on anything together, that if Atlus hadn't been a big supporter of the 3DS, that if SMTV wasn't among the first Switch games announced, that Nintendo would have still put Joker in the game?

I just don't see a world where Nintendo is picking the characters and they decide to add a bunch of characters who have no Nintendo Switch presence. Especially when you look at their 5 choices and you get "one first party who is only here because their game was new", "two third parties with plenty of presence on Switch", "one third party with no Switch presense but was among the most requested characters at the time", and "one third party who's franchise has little presense on Nintendo outside of spinoffs but who's home company has a great relationship with them".

At this point, the number of characters/franchises that people actively want in Smash right now that don't have some kind of Switch/Nintendo presense is pretty damn small with how much third parties are actually supporting the damn thing for once.

Let me rephrase:

It’s not so much the relationship as it is this ever-changing concept of “Nintendo history”. There’s never been a stable definition of what gives a character enough “history” with Nintendo. Regardless, the way fans approach it, like arguing a character doesn’t have enough Nintendo connection, is evidently not on the same page as Sakurai. For more on that, read Schnee117 ’s post above.

After all, it only takes a port of a game to be on Nintendo consoles. Even when it comes to Joker, he appeared in one spin-off. If it were really about how much Nintendo history a series had, why don’t we have any Shin Megami Tensei content? There’s none, and I don’t count any of the “B-but Persona is a spin-off” stuff, because you’d never be able to tell if you knew nothing about Persona before Joker in Smash.

I’m still simply convinced it’s mostly a conversation produced by folks who think things seen as “Not Nintendo” are by default lower quality than anything that has appeared on a Nintendo console, and that’s just silly to both with when Sakurai himself hasn’t cared.

Could it be different now that Nintendo is picking? Maybe. But Nintendo also picked Joker. So here we are.

 

[pinshadow]

Why would we even WANT a Direct honestly? We're gonna complain about what they're gonna show us in it anyway.

I'd rather complain about actual games than the lack of them. /s

 

[chocolatejr9]

Why would we even WANT a Direct honestly? We're gonna complain about what they're gonna show us in it anyway.

Because we're all suckers for pain.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Thankfully some characters that otherwise wouldn't have an appearance on Nintendo have this so now there's a chance for smash.

I'd rather complain about actual games than the lack of them. /s

View attachment 265354

I completely forgot about the weirdly titled Bravely default 2.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd rather complain about actual games than the lack of them. /s

View attachment 265354

I'll go ahead with my complaints

- Why is there STILL no new Donkey Kong game?
- Another remake?
- That DLC looks underwhelming
- Mario? Again?
- Pokémon? Again?
- Why didn't they show Zelda?
- I have little to no interest in the upcoming games

I think that just about summarised it.

I have zero expectations.

 

[Schnee117]

After all, it only takes a port of a game to be on Nintendo consoles. Even when it comes to Joker, he appeared in one spin-off. If it were really about how much Nintendo history a series had, why don’t we have any Shin Megami Tensei content? There’s none, and I don’t count any of the “B-but Persona is a spin-off” stuff, because you’d never be able to tell if you knew nothing about Persona before Joker in Smash.

The other thing with Persona is that with the P4 Spin-Offs, Golden and P5, they've dropped the SMT branding.
It's just Persona now, not SMT: Persona

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm like 5 pages late but...

Art style has absolutely nothing to do with a character not being able to make it in. You can gander your way through the entirety of the Metal Gear characters Spirits in Ultimate, especially MGSV Characters, and realize just how gritty those characters are. That doesn't mean that Snake himself has to look uber realistic with individual pores and hair follicles. That's stupid. Same with Bayonetta. Bayonetta in her games and Spirits is obviously more realistic and the demons are absolutely grotesque. That does NOT carry over to her character model. A character can easily be melded to fit the art style of Smast while still adhering to their own art style. Snake is a very solid example of that. Hell, the uber Toriyama designs of Hero can be seen as a "clashing art style" of the more anime adult characters in the game.

For ****s sake the design of Master Chief in Infinite would fit perfectly into Smash and you wouldn't have to change a thing. Doom Slayer? Hayabusa? Travis? They can all "fit" saying something "doesn't fit" is the stupidest **** I heard and I heard it alllll through Smash 4 speculation. Cause being a Snake fan back then was a ****ing nightmare.

 

[osby]

The other thing with Persona is that with the P4 Spin-Offs, Golden and P5, they've dropped the SMT branding.
It's just Persona now, not SMT: Persona

For clarification: In Japan, Persona games never had "Shin Megami Tensei" in their titles. It's purely the result of the localization team trying to bring more fans.

They were always meant to be two separate entities and don't even share a development team.

 

[SNEKeater]

For clarification: In Japan, Persona games never had "Shin Megami Tensei" in their titles. It's purely the result of the localization team trying to bring more fans.

They were always meant to be two separate entities and don't even share a development team.

Sometimes I thought I was the only one saying this, thanks lol

Both franchises share some elements and references and are clearly linked for that reason, but I never considered Persona as a SMT spin-off.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Just to add something about the "third party must be on Nintendo console" discussion, it was stated as early as Brawl that it's not necessary that characters are on a Nintendo console: http://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

"The character must carry game history with them.
Besides that, it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform."

As early as Brawl Sakurai was open to add character for non Nintendo console if the character have a big history.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Of course Cloud and Joker don't have much ties to Nintendo. I was most upset with their inclusions because of this alone, so I know. But their main franchises do have connections to Nintendo, and Cloud has been a popular request ever since Snake showed up in Brawl, likely did well on the ballot too. He was just deemed "impossible" by fans. But Final Fantasy has a long history with Nintendo, even started on Nintendo. And am not a FF fan but even I know Cloud's game was the most popular, and Cloud being a very popular character. Joker is just the logical choice for his franchise to. So of course we got them. Still see no reason to add a Sony or Microsoft mascot because of them. These characters are gonna be handpicked by Nintendo themselves, so why would they even? Doesn't make sense to me. And we can't pick up any sort of pattern before seeing the first character. Not that Joker's reveal for the first Fighters Pass made anyone predict ANYTHING right... Up till now, everyone has been wrong with their predictions anyway.

 

[Jeremy Smasher]

Soooo something I noticed regarding Rhythm Heaven as a character for FP2.

The second set of DLC was said to be finalised by November because that's when Byleth's thing was shot where they said the DLC has already been picked. But IDK if it could have been long before that date when the finalisation was first made if (according to Opossum and others, apparently) negotiations for Banjo were at April of the year FP1 was coincidentally also said to be finalised by November.
https://smashboards.com/threads/soc...ur-eternal-doom.484266/page-624#post-23421220

Looking at Tsunku's tweets, he talks about being hypothetically up to do a Rhythm Heaven Switch game in March - maybe May 2019

お。みんなもあればやってくれるのかな。 RT @sayurianeki: つんくSwitch版リズム天国作ってくれないかな

— つんく♂ (@tsunkuboy) March 23, 2019

“Oh. If there’s everyone perhaps I’d do it. RT @sayurianeki: Tsunku, could you please make Rhythm Heaven for Switch?”
(IDK proper translation but according to Google translate: "Thank you very much. I'll do my best to be connected next! What was innovative about RT “Rhythm Heaven”? Tsunku New “sound game” form (real sound)-Yahoo! News https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/article?a=20190507-00010004-realsound-ent
@YahooNewsTopics")

So that's a 6-8 month period for Tsunku to hypothetically introduce/see introduced and be a part of a new Rhythm Heaven game (or at least a much easier "collection" rerelease of the games or something) in which they'd also pick it to be promoted as DLC for Smash FP2. And maybe the sentiment of wanting to bring more 3DS franchises to Switch was having its seeds planted before its mention alongside the Switch Lite's success in Halloween 2019, which was right before they filmed the Byleth thing.

The result is encouraging for Pokemon games coming next month. Nintendo chief Furukawa said company would make more 3DS franchises available on Switch to convey appeal of Lite.

— Takashi Mochizuki (@6d6f636869) October 31, 2019

BUT SO if there's negotiations needed to be made for third parties LONG in advance, would a first party character also need to be set in stone alongside those, assuming it wasn't merely "slot for a first party here, decide later" or something? Would Nintendo have just plotted at least a good idea of the plan of how Fighter's Pass 2 was going to go before this hypothetical new Rhythm Heaven thing was brought up, EVEN if it was within the aforementioned 6-8 month period?
https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-338#post-23455293

If so, this mean Rhythm Heaven didn't have a new game/rerelease to ride on chances with in terms of being in FP2, not making it impossible though...

 

[cosmicB]

Is that a correlation, or causation?

Many 3rd parties have appeared on Nintendo consoles, but simply appearing is not the same thing as having this major relationship or history with Nintendo.

Even so, that argument affecting character choice is moot when considering the choices we have gotten. It’s just like the conversation of cramming characters from first party series into Smash as advertisements of games they don’t even appear in: Its trying to find ways to make it work when it doesn’t really make as much sense.

What makes more sense as to why Joker got into Smash?

A: Persona 5 was a mainstream hit and was quite different from everything in Smash

or

B: He appears in a Persona spin-off title on 3DS.

Seems pretty clear to me it has much more to do with A than B.

I don't think Joker is the best example here as you can absolutely make the argument that his inclusion was partially there to promote the Switch version of Scramble.

Right now, these rules about whether a character NEEDS to be on a Nintendo console or not are just conjecture, and seeing the actual quotes, Sakurai himself as contradicted himself on it by talking about having misgivings if Cloud never appeared on Nintendo before at all.

The thing is there aren't many characters that seem feasible that have had zero presence on Nintendo consoles, so in the unlikely event we get Kratos, we'll likely never know if this is a rule that still stands/became a thing in the first place.

 

[osby]

I don't think Joker is the best example here as you can absolutely make the argument that his inclusion was partially there to promote the Switch version of Scramble.

Not discounting the possibility but only 1/4 of Hero had a new game on Switch and they promoted that to hell and back.

I feel like if Scramble played a significant role in Joker's addition (which I doubt) they would a least namedropped it somewhere.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Soooo something I noticed regarding Rhythm Heaven as a character for FP2.

The second set of DLC was said to be finalised by November because that's when Byleth's thing was shot where they said the DLC has already been picked. But IDK if it could have been long before that date when the finalisation was first made if (according to Opossum and others, apparently) negotiations for Banjo were at April of the year FP1 was coincidentally also said to be finalised by November.
https://smashboards.com/threads/soc...ur-eternal-doom.484266/page-624#post-23421220

Looking at Tsunku's tweets, he talks about being hypothetically up to do a Rhythm Heaven Switch game in March - maybe May 2019

お。みんなもあればやってくれるのかな。 RT @sayurianeki: つんくSwitch版リズム天国作ってくれないかな

— つんく♂ (@tsunkuboy) March 23, 2019

“Oh. If there’s everyone perhaps I’d do it. RT @sayurianeki: Tsunku, could you please make Rhythm Heaven for Switch?”
(IDK proper translation but according to Google translate: "Thank you very much. I'll do my best to be connected next! What was innovative about RT “Rhythm Heaven”? Tsunku New “sound game” form (real sound)-Yahoo! News https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/article?a=20190507-00010004-realsound-ent
@YahooNewsTopics")

So that's a 6-8 month period for Tsunku to hypothetically introduce/see introduced and be a part of a new Rhythm Heaven game (or at least a much easier "collection" rerelease of the games or something) in which they'd also pick it to be promoted as DLC for Smash FP2. And maybe the sentiment of wanting to bring more 3DS franchises to Switch was having its seeds planted before its mention alongside the Switch Lite's success in Halloween 2019, which was right before they filmed the Byleth thing.

The result is encouraging for Pokemon games coming next month. Nintendo chief Furukawa said company would make more 3DS franchises available on Switch to convey appeal of Lite.

— Takashi Mochizuki (@6d6f636869) October 31, 2019

BUT SO if there's negotiations needed to be made for third parties LONG in advance, would a first party character also need to be set in stone alongside those, assuming it wasn't merely "slot for a first party here, decide later" or something? Would Nintendo have just plotted at least a good idea of the plan of how Fighter's Pass 2 was going to go before this hypothetical new Rhythm Heaven thing was brought up, EVEN if it was within the aforementioned 6-8 month period?
https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-338#post-23455293

If so, this mean Rhythm Heaven didn't have a new game/rerelease to ride on chances with in terms of being in FP2, not making it impossible though...

Even if a new Rhythm heaven is in development I doubt Nintendo would chose it as a promotional pick. RH felt more like a base game Sakurai pick.

Also a RH fighter was planned for Smash 4 and Megamix was released in 2015 on 3ds. Why didn't they add something at that moment for dlc? My guess is Sakurai wanted it but rhythm based fighter didn't work so he gave up the idea.

 

[BZL8]

Might be interesting. Spawn Wave reported that there was a never a Direct planned for the first half of March to begin with. I've timestamped the segment in question.

 

[Schnee117]

I don't think Joker is the best example here as you can absolutely make the argument that his inclusion was partially there to promote the Switch version of Scramble.
.

A spin-off sequel that didn't release in Japan until over a year after Joker's reveal and still has no release date in the West.
Heck it wasn't even revealed properly until after Joker's showcase.

I'm not seeing the promotion beyond Ultimate save data unlocking music in Scramble which isn't really all that much.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Might be interesting. Spawn Wave reported that there was a never a Direct planned for the first half of March to begin with. I've timestamped the segment in question.

so the direct was supposed to have happened earlier or?

 

[SpectreJordan]

I think the overall concept that the “Nintendo relationship” is what got characters in...like, we have been through this numerous times. It has turned into this idea that, unfortunately, it seems Nintendo “purists” peddle constantly.

If it were about Nintendo history, the 3rd party roster would look very different. Cloud, for example, is the Final Fantasy Protagonist probably least associated with Nintendo prior to Smash, yet he was the one chosen. Why? Because he’s Cloud Strife. He was not chosen because of a minor appearance in a Final Fantasy spin-off title. Arguing that to show “Nintendo ties” is silly when there are other Final Fantasy characters that would have been connected to Nintendo in a better way, like Terra Branford.

Snake is another 3rd party highly connected to Sony, not Nintendo. Yes, Metal Gear Solid has the remaster of MGS1, but he was added simply because of the friendship between Kojima and Sakurai. Nintendo execs were actually against the idea at first, but here we are. If it were about Nintendo relationships, I don’t actually know if it would have gone that far.

Joker is literally tied to PlayStation exclusivity in mainstream Persona titles. A spin-off that many folks don’t even know exists is not what got Joker into Smash. Persona 5 being an amazing crossover opportunity is what got Joker into Smash.

It’s time we faced the facts: Sakurai has literally said that appearing on Nintendo platforms is essentially a nice touch, but not necessary. If it is not necessary to the head dev/director of the game, then it is clear that it does not hold legitimate bearing on character choices aside from the desires of fans on a Smash Bros. Forum.

The reality is that it is not a major determining factor to character selection. It’s best to move on from that as an argument. There are great characters and series that are missed out on or not given a fair shake here because they aren’t on Nintendo consoles, and that is a shame.

Please realize that there are plenty of quality titles outside of Nintendo consoles that historically are better performing and more critically acclaimed than some of the games that have appeared on Nintendo consoles.

There’s also the fact that Cloud & Joker don’t come with any content from the Nintendo games they’ve appeared in. If that was such a big deal, then Cloud & Joker could’ve brought along atleast one song from those games.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

so the direct was supposed to have happened earlier or?

No, he said the direct his still planned for later, which is what I think too. I think it will be on March 26th

 

[zferolie]

Might be interesting. Spawn Wave reported that there was a never a Direct planned for the first half of March to begin with. I've timestamped the segment in question.

Im surprised insider sources are still saying anything given the nintendo ninjas on high alert. I wonder though if sabis nindies direct is this direct this guy is hearing about, or if there are 2, or sabi was wrong....

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Not discounting the possibility but only 1/4 of Hero had a new game on Switch and they promoted that to hell and back.

I feel like if Scramble played a significant role in Joker's addition (which I doubt) they would a least namedropped it somewhere.

I'm sad we didn't get Wolf and Sophie spirits to promote the game.

Granted the game hasn't been released worldwide yet so that probably makes sense.

 

[pinshadow]

Eh, I don't really get people when they say stuff like "We don't really have anything to go off of right now", when I feel we actually have plently of information to actually make some decently educated guesses on Pass 2, waaaaaay more than anything we had to go off of for pass 1.

• A whole pass full of Nintendo-chosen picks to showcase Nintendo's choices and mindset. (Nintendo isn't completely tone deaf? western characters? Shill picks? Ect.)
• Post-Pass Spirit events/Third Parties Working with Smash (Resident Evil Spirits? Arc-System Works Spirits? Ubisoft costumes? Warframe Spirits? Indie Costumes?)
• Missing Mii Costumes? (Heihachi? Lloyd?,Geno?)
• A metric ton of random misc. Information floating around (Koei Tecmo actually helped work on Byleth? Bethesda said no Doomguy in Smash? Pass decided throughout 2019? ECT.)

There is a bunch of stuff you can take away from all of this information. If I've learned anything throughout speculation it's that the only actually reliable way to make predictions is to base it off of things we actually know. The best way I've found to go about this is just to look at everything that has happened and ask "Ok, what does all this stuff mean?" I've got my own main takeaways from all this, which I won't post because I don't want this post to be extremely long, but everyone is free to make their own assumptions on this, and I think people should.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Eh, I don't really get people when they say stuff like "We don't really have anything to go off of right now", when I feel we actually have plently of information to actually make some decently educated guesses on Pass 2, waaaaaay more than anything we had to go off of for pass 1.

• A whole pass full of Nintendo-chosen picks to showcase Nintendo's choices and mindset. (Nintendo isn't completely tone deaf? western characters? Shill picks? Ect.)
• Post-Pass Spirit events/Third Parties Working with Smash (Resident Evil Spirits? Arc-System Works Spirits? Ubisoft costumes? Warframe Spirits? Indie Costumes?)
• Missing Mii Costumes? (Heihachi? Lloyd?,Geno?)
• A metric ton of random misc. Information floating around (Koei Tecmo actually helped work on Byleth? Bethesda said no Doomguy in Smash? Pass decided throughout 2019? ECT.)

There is a bunch of stuff you can take away from all of this information. If I've learned anything throughout speculation it's that the only actually reliable way to make predictions is to base it off of things we actually know. The best way I've found to go about this is just to look at everything that has happened and ask "Ok, what does all this stuff mean?" I've got my own main takeaways from all this, which I won't post because I don't want this post to be extremely long, but everyone is free to make their own assumptions on this, and I think people should.

Hold up when the hell has anyone said Koei worked on Byleth?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hold up when the hell has anyone said Koei worked on Byleth?

Koei Tecmo worked on Three Houses itself, did they not?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Koei Tecmo worked on Three Houses itself, did they not?

So THAT'S how Ryu Hayabusa can get in: as a Fire Emblem character!

 

[BZL8]

Koei Tecmo worked on Three Houses itself, did they not?

Koei Tecmo worked on Fire Emblem Three Houses. They, however, did not oversee Byleth's inclusion into Smash. That was Intelligent Systems and Nintendo EPD1's job. The main supervisors for Byleth is more than likely IntSys' Toshiyuki Kusakihara and Masahiro Higuchi, and EPD1's Genki Yokota and Hitoshi Yamagami.

 

[pinshadow]

Hold up when the hell has anyone said Koei worked on Byleth?

Sakurai himself said they helped with the gameplay portion (the Three Houses segment) of the trailer.

今回の参戦ムービーは､3つのチームが制作しています。
アニメパートはサンジゲンさん。
ゲーム会話パートは『風花雪月』を手がけたコーエーテクモさん。
ゲームパートは『スマブラSP』開発チーム。
たった600円そこそこの、しかもDLCに対する映像ですが、ファンの楽しみも大きいので頑張っています。 https://t.co/NNjHuiF1T1

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 17, 2020

I've always assumed since Koei Tecmo was so involved in the Three Houses development that they would have helped with supplying stuff like the models for the stage as well. Either way the takeaway has been in my eyes that since they were involved in the production of Byleth that the idea of Koei Tecmo content in Smash has to have come up.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Anyone have any thoughts on Urshifu’s chances of making it in?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

There’s also the fact that Cloud & Joker don’t come with any content from the Nintendo games they’ve appeared in. If that was such a big deal, then Cloud & Joker could’ve brought along atleast one song from those games.

you silly goose, last surprise and let the battle begin ARE on the 3DS games they are in!

Eh, I don't really get people when they say stuff like "We don't really have anything to go off of right now", when I feel we actually have plently of information to actually make some decently educated guesses on Pass 2, waaaaaay more than anything we had to go off of for pass 1.

• A whole pass full of Nintendo-chosen picks to showcase Nintendo's choices and mindset. (Nintendo isn't completely tone deaf? western characters? Shill picks? Ect.)
• Post-Pass Spirit events/Third Parties Working with Smash (Resident Evil Spirits? Arc-System Works Spirits? Ubisoft costumes? Warframe Spirits? Indie Costumes?)
• Missing Mii Costumes? (Heihachi? Lloyd?,Geno?)
• A metric ton of random misc. Information floating around (Koei Tecmo actually helped work on Byleth? Bethesda said no Doomguy in Smash? Pass decided throughout 2019? ECT.)

There is a bunch of stuff you can take away from all of this information. If I've learned anything throughout speculation it's that the only actually reliable way to make predictions is to base it off of things we actually know. The best way I've found to go about this is just to look at everything that has happened and ask "Ok, what does all this stuff mean?" I've got my own main takeaways from all this, which I won't post because I don't want this post to be extremely long, but everyone is free to make their own assumptions on this, and I think people should.

I think it's a reasonable expectation to expect Nintendo to negotiate with companies that are already on board with smash like Sega and Capcom.

They can probably score a cheaper deal that way. So I'm looking at characters and series those companies want to push right now and expecting at least one or two of them to show up. like kiryu pls.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Anyone have any thoughts on Urshifu’s chances of making it in?

don't care not baboom