Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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It's kinda funny/depressing how the idea of a Nintendo first party character is looked down upon for the DLC of this Nintendo game. Even with Joker, Hero and Banjo, there could totally be a more anti-climactic Nintendo reveal they put at the end because they of course wanted to get the more interesting ones out of the way first. Remember how the obligatory new Pokémon happened to be the last unique fighter reveal for the base game, and how Smash 4 ended with a 3DS game pick and the ballot winner that just so happened to be Bayonetta? Assuming Piranha Plant doesn't fill this quota, maybe the Nintendo execs wanted at least one damn Nintendo character represented, especially if licensing five characters simultaneously with animated trailers was a bit much.

Again, I wonder if a Western but not very popular in Japan character would fly well, kinda like being the really-Japanese but not popular in the West characters like Takamari and the Famicom Detective Club chick that were passed over for that reason, right? I mean I remember some Japanese reaction to the fake Rayman thing like "Smash is becoming a more American game", so could it be possible that they'd only want a pick with at least adaquete fanbases in both territories like what could have been said for Banjo and Hero?

Another thing, should there be any "campaigning" for a second fighters pass we should do now in the event that persuasion would be needed? Because of course the sales for the pass may speak for themselves and be all Nintendo needs, but should we be apt in doing that before this pass nears its end, in case it happens to go like Smash 4 where it's revealed to end after a year? (Tho was it only within the final direct that it was revealed that DLC was ending or was it sooner than that?)

Edit: of course if there is a second wave it may not even start production immediately after the wrap up of wave one for all we know.
 
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Another thing, should there be any "campaigning" for a second fighters pass we should do now in the event that persuasion would be needed? Because of course the sales for the pass may speak for themselves and be all Nintendo needs, but should we be apt in doing that before this pass nears its end, in case it happens to go like Smash 4 where it's revealed to end after a year? (Tho was it only within the final direct that it was revealed that DLC was ending or was it sooner than that?)
I don't know, when did they say that they started planning and negotiating for this wave again?

They might look at overall sales more than anything but then again. Nintendo in general doesn't really seem to be fond of doing DLC for more than a year. (unless its minor things like VR implementation in Zelda BotW and Mario Odyssey I guess if that counts)
Presumably due to the waning interest and sales of prolonged DLC thing Sakurai mentioned.
 
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KingBroly

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It's kinda funny/depressing how the idea of a Nintendo first party character is looked down upon for the DLC of this Nintendo game. Even with Joker, Hero and Banjo, there could totally be a more anti-climactic Nintendo reveal they put at the end because they of course wanted to get the more interesting ones out of the way first. Remember how the obligatory new Pokémon happened to be the last unique fighter reveal for the base game, and how Smash 4 ended with a 3DS game pick and the ballot winner that just so happened to be Bayonetta? Assuming Piranha Plant doesn't fill this quota, maybe the Nintendo execs wanted at least one damn Nintendo character represented, especially if licensing five characters simultaneously with animated trailers was a bit much.

Again, I wonder if a Western but not very popular in Japan character would fly well, kinda like being the really-Japanese but not popular in the West characters like Takamari and the Famicom Detective Club chick that were passed over for that reason, right? I mean I remember some Japanese reaction to the fake Rayman thing like "Smash is becoming a more American game", so could it be possible that they'd only want a pick with at least adaquete fanbases in both territories like what could have been said for Banjo and Hero?

Another thing, should there be any "campaigning" for a second fighters pass we should do now in the event that persuasion would be needed? Because of course the sales for the pass may speak for themselves and be all Nintendo needs, but should we be apt in doing that before this pass nears its end, in case it happens to go like Smash 4 where it's revealed to end after a year? (Tho was it only within the final direct that it was revealed that DLC was ending or was it sooner than that?)

Edit: of course if there is a second wave it may not even start production immediately after the wrap up of wave one for all we know.
Besides Impa, Dixie Kong and Waluigi, many would be unaccepting towards a first party character at this point. Why those three? Because they're the only ones left that a significant amount of people might care about. It's really surprising they didn't take the Chrom route with Dixie Kong and give her DK's Up+B.

IMO, there shouldn't be a second Fighter's Pass. We've peaked with Banjo and the Hero. It's all downhill from here.
 

JDCabrera

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Besides Impa, Dixie Kong and Waluigi, many would be unaccepting towards a first party character at this point. Why those three? Because they're the only ones left that a significant amount of people might care about. It's really surprising they didn't take the Chrom route with Dixie Kong and give her DK's Up+B.

IMO, there shouldn't be a second Fighter's Pass. We've peaked with Banjo and the Hero. It's all downhill from here.
Crash, Jill or Wright wouldn’t be downhill for me, honestly.
 
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Besides Impa, Dixie Kong and Waluigi, many would be unaccepting towards a first party character at this point. Why those three? Because they're the only ones left that a significant amount of people might care about. It's really surprising they didn't take the Chrom route with Dixie Kong and give her DK's Up+B.
Not trying to look biased here but Isaac and Bandana Dee are most definitely up there with those 3 maybe even bigger.
 

N3ON

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Besides Impa, Dixie Kong and Waluigi, many would be unaccepting towards a first party character at this point. Why those three? Because they're the only ones left that a significant amount of people might care about. It's really surprising they didn't take the Chrom route with Dixie Kong and give her DK's Up+B.

IMO, there shouldn't be a second Fighter's Pass. We've peaked with Banjo and the Hero. It's all downhill from here.
If you're going to open the door to ATs like Waluigi, you'll find more than three remaining Nintendo characters people care about.
 
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IMO, there shouldn't be a second Fighter's Pass. We've peaked with Banjo and the Hero. It's all downhill from here.
Personally, seeing Layton and Phoenix would hype me up more than those two characters did.
Its all a matter of taste and what you grew fond of in the end, after all.

I'm sure there are still plenty of characters people are really hoping to see.
I think at least one more fighters pass would be nice, and then wrap it up from there for now until the next game.
After all, who knows when, if ever, we will get another Smash game like Ultimate again, where everyone is here.
 
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osby

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Maybe Fighters pass 2 could be a promotion pass. (promoting AT/Spirits) to characters.

1.Waluigi
2. Shadow the Hedgehog
3. Isaac
4. Dixie
5. Geno

Then everyone is happy. In m opinion, those now among the top 5 characters I have seen.
What Fighter Pass 2? It seems rather unlikely for us to get more characters after this pass, let alone 5 extra fighters.

Also, why people act like there'll be a theme for every hypothetical future passes?
 

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What Fighter Pass 2? It seems rather unlikely for us to get more characters after this pass, let alone 5 extra fighters.

Also, why people act like there'll be a theme for every hypothetical future passes?
Yeah, I don’t get the ideas about themed Fighter Pass.

I mostly believe that the Pass is made by any pick decided between Sakurai and Nintendo, without any kind of criteria needed for the whole thing.
 

3BitSaurus

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It's kinda funny/depressing how the idea of a Nintendo first party character is looked down upon for the DLC of this Nintendo game. Even with Joker, Hero and Banjo, there could totally be a more anti-climactic Nintendo reveal they put at the end because they of course wanted to get the more interesting ones out of the way first. Remember how the obligatory new Pokémon happened to be the last unique fighter reveal for the base game, and how Smash 4 ended with a 3DS game pick and the ballot winner that just so happened to be Bayonetta? Assuming Piranha Plant doesn't fill this quota, maybe the Nintendo execs wanted at least one damn Nintendo character represented, especially if licensing five characters simultaneously with animated trailers was a bit much.

Again, I wonder if a Western but not very popular in Japan character would fly well, kinda like being the really-Japanese but not popular in the West characters like Takamari and the Famicom Detective Club chick that were passed over for that reason, right? I mean I remember some Japanese reaction to the fake Rayman thing like "Smash is becoming a more American game", so could it be possible that they'd only want a pick with at least adaquete fanbases in both territories like what could have been said for Banjo and Hero?

Another thing, should there be any "campaigning" for a second fighters pass we should do now in the event that persuasion would be needed? Because of course the sales for the pass may speak for themselves and be all Nintendo needs, but should we be apt in doing that before this pass nears its end, in case it happens to go like Smash 4 where it's revealed to end after a year? (Tho was it only within the final direct that it was revealed that DLC was ending or was it sooner than that?)

Edit: of course if there is a second wave it may not even start production immediately after the wrap up of wave one for all we know.
I find it funny that people complained so much about Little Mac in Japan. It's like... when you think about it, only three characters in Ultimate cater exclusively to the western audience - at least that we know of. They seem to be Mac, Ridley and Dark Samus. The rest either has japanese or global appeal.

Personally, I don't see another western character happening in the FP. Unless we get another Japan-focused reveal like Dragon Quest.

Regarding Nintendo characters being looked down upon for the FP... I think this disappointment was born in the final direct, for me at least. Even though I went with Box Theory as my "worst-case scenario", I was still disappointed, because so many viable and popular characters were either Assist Trophies or Spirits, meaning they were cut off from being DLC. We all know how the Isaac and Shadow fanbases felt being deconfirmed at the last minute.

Because of this, and due to the fact that we have no information from an official source on Spirit deconfirmation, that leaves very few possibilities for a Nintendo character that will make people happy. And pretty much any third party would turn more heads than a Gen 8 Pokémon or someone from the new FE, so I think that yes, we're just getting third parties for DLC.

I don't think another Pass is happening. It's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Based on how Sakurai doesn't like overextending development cycles, this is probably just the final hurrah and that's it.
 

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I find it funny that people complained so much about Little Mac in Japan. It's like... when you think about it, only three characters in Ultimate cater exclusively to the western audience - at least that we know of. They seem to be Mac, Ridley and Dark Samus. The rest either has japanese or global appeal.

Personally, I don't see another western character happening in the FP. Unless we get another Japan-focused reveal like Dragon Quest.

Regarding Nintendo characters being looked down upon for the FP... I think this disappointment was born in the final direct, for me at least. Even though I went with Box Theory as my "worst-case scenario", I was still disappointed, because so many viable and popular characters were either Assist Trophies or Spirits, meaning they were cut off from being DLC. We all know how the Isaac and Shadow fanbases felt being deconfirmed at the last minute.

Because of this, and due to the fact that we have no information from an official source on Spirit deconfirmation, that leaves very few possibilities for a Nintendo character that will make people happy. And pretty much any third party would turn more heads than a Gen 8 Pokémon or someone from the new FE, so I think that yes, we're just getting third parties for DLC.

I don't think another Pass is happening. It's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Based on how Sakurai doesn't like overextending development cycles, this is probably just the final hurrah and that's it.
I wouldn’t discard someone like Crash Bandicoot right now, tbh.

He has all the cards to seem highly likely for this Pass.

And Activision also wants him in too.
 
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Is a Rhythm Paradise character not even among the requested 1st parties? Though I am aware it didn't exactly have notably great ballot presence...
I don't know, when did they say that they started planning and negotiating for this wave again?

They might look at overall sales more than anything but then again. Nintendo in general doesn't really seem to be fond of doing DLC for more than a year. (unless its minor things like VR implementation in Zelda BotW and Mario Odyssey I guess if that counts)
Presumably due to the waning interest and sales of prolonged DLC thing Sakurai mentioned.
Somewhere in 2018, if they didn't know they were doing it early in that year. Before the August direct if the free five stage slots for DLC being visible then are any indication.

Really makes me wonder if at worst, they'd acknowledge Ultimate's monumental sales and the specialness of the game ("Everyone is Here" may not happen again) and give it a little more DLC support, despite the attitude of just awaiting the next game.

Smash characters do happen to bring in the big interest, and the sales of the DLC could even reflect that, but I guess you gotta stop somewhere :p even if they don't have an incoming console demise to consider this time. Maybe a second one could be easier and cheaper, less new franchises and more cloney characters.

I respect that asking for EVEN MORE CHARACTERS may be a bit much at this point, but with such a special roster, another wave or something could give us a compromising, but generally really satisfying conclusion to it. But hey, never ask Sakurai for anything again and all that :D
 

Mastermiine

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The true measure of showing how far Smash has come is the fact that no one will light you up for saying this.
I mean, Waluigi is one one the last few "Main Faces" in the Mario series. The irrelevant argument is thrown out because of Banjo. The only thing in his way is being an AT and Sakuri's (spelling) possible distaste for the character. Though, Waluigi has a surprising huge following.

Shadow would make a perfect echo for Sonic. Plus he is one of the top characters downloaded for mods. So it would be crazy not to think he isn't wanted.


What Fighter Pass 2? It seems rather unlikely for us to get more characters after this pass, let alone 5 extra fighters.

Also, why people act like there'll be a theme for every hypothetical future passes?
Just a thought. No one knows anything at this point.
 

N3ON

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I mean, Waluigi is one one the last few "Main Faces" in the Mario series. The irrelevant argument is thrown out because of Banjo. The only thing in his way is being an AT and Sakuri's (spelling) possible distaste for the character. Though, Waluigi has a surprising huge following.

Shadow would make a perfect echo for Sonic. Plus he is one of the top characters downloaded for mods. So it would be crazy not to think he isn't wanted.
Hey I'm not against the characters - I'd love to see Waluigi. I've just been around too long, so I've seen them go from joke requests to requests you wouldn't raise for fear of getting flamed or mistaken for a troll, to minority candidates that the masses began to begrudgingly accept, to, in the last couple years (or in Shadow's case, year) widely accepted "top choices".

It's been quite the ride for these two kinda ****ty characters. ;P
 

3BitSaurus

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I wouldn’t discard someone like Crash Bandicoot right now, tbh.

He has all the cards to seem highly likely for this Pass.

And Activision also wants him in too.
Eh, I don't "discard" him, It's just... I don't see him as that likely. When you think about it, him and Banjo have relatively similar demographics - two western platformer characters from the 90s that appeal to a loyal, nostalgic fanbase. The main difference between demographics is the console of release and the specific subgenre of platforming.

Considering Nintendo wants to appeal to different audiences with DLC, I doubt they'll repeat game types again like they did with RPG. I think the last two characters have a bigger chance to come from other genres, like Action, Adventure or Fighting, to name a few.

It would be a pleasant surprise to me if they put Crash in, though. I still remember pulling an all-nighter with my cousins to clear the original game...
 

Mastermiine

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Hey I'm not against the characters - I'd love to see Waluigi. I've just been around too long, so I've seen them go from joke requests to requests you wouldn't raise for fear of getting flamed or mistaken for a troll, to minority candidates that the masses began to begrudgingly accept, to, in the last couple years (or in Shadow's case, year) widely accepted "top choices".

It's been quite the ride for these two kinda ****ty characters. ;P
Yeah. There are not many characters left for my that are near and dear to my heart to be added. I am more of a Playstation Gamer (Introduced in PS3 error) and those characters would never happen. And the games I did play on my game cube/wii where mostly in the Mario family.

Shadow
Waluigi
And Portal 1/2 rep

Are left for " Big wants". Who knows, a character could be added that I wasn't thinking about.


So far the FP is 2/3 on characters I like.
 

JDCabrera

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The only most wanted left for me is basically Crash Bandicoot, who I found highly likely.

Because of that, I basically have some hopes for characters people I enjoy talking with really want to see.
 

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I'd say Crash has a much bigger and currently relevant general audience pull than Banjo (including in Japan?) at least. Maybe like how you had your uber popular and more niche JRPGs with DQ and Persona respectively?
It is also worth to mention that with Crash we would have the main characters of the most beloved mascot racing games in Smash (with Diddy, Mario, Sonic and Banjo already being present).
 

Nquoid

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So I'm intrigued. How much weight do people give to developers who have verbally said they've had conversations with Nintendo? Like we have people saying Bethesda and Activision has stated publically they've had conversations with Nintendo about Smash.

But this all seems like a no brainer to me? Like what self respecting developer out there with a character who could be in Smash wouldn't want to be? Obviously it signals some level of proactivity, but I do think we put a lot of weight on a conversation I'm sure countless developers have had, even as a flippant joke.
 
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So I'm intrigued. How much weight do people give to developers who have verbally said they've had conversations with Nintendo? Like we have people saying Bethesda and Activision has stated publically they've had conversations with Nintendo about Smash.

But this all seems like a no brainer to me? Like what self respecting developer out there with a character who could be in Smash wouldn't want to be? Obviously it signals some level of proactivity, but I do think we put a lot of weight on a conversation I'm sure countless developers have had, even as a flippant joke.
I guess the sentiment is that they are less likely do be difficult in negotiations like Square Enix (presumably) was with Cloud. That and people will say anything to make their character seem more likely since a character's perceived likeliness has a positive effect on their popularity.
 
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So I'm intrigued. How much weight do people give to developers who have verbally said they've had conversations with Nintendo? Like we have people saying Bethesda and Activision has stated publically they've had conversations with Nintendo about Smash.

But this all seems like a no brainer to me? Like what self respecting developer out there with a character who could be in Smash wouldn't want to be? Obviously it signals some level of proactivity, but I do think we put a lot of weight on a conversation I'm sure countless developers have had, even as a flippant joke.
I'd imagine Ubisoft has done a lot of efforts to get their content into Smash in the past. Although it only resulted into Trophies and Spirits so far. So yeah...
I'm pretty sure a lot of developers have asked Nintendo to put their content in Smash. Heck even some like Level-5 talked straight to Sakurai himself at one point.

It's really more on Sakurai and Nintendo and who they want to choose I guess....
Developers talking to them shows more that they are easier to work with and negotiate more than anything, really.
 
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JDCabrera

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I guess the sentiment is that they are less likely do be difficult in negotiations like Square Enix (presumably) was with Cloud. That and people will say anything to make their character seem more likely since a character's perceived likeliness has a positive effect on their popularity.
It is worth to mention that it is good to get as many points in favour of a character as possible.

If it was just that one bit what made someone find Crash likely I could understand the doubts. However, it is the amount of points in his favour after this E3 as a whole that makes him seem more possible than ever.

That being said doh, nobody is really a lock.
 

N3ON

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I'd imagine Ubisoft has done a lot of efforts to get their content into Smash in the past. Although it only resulted into Trophies and Spirits so far. So yeah...
I'm pretty sure a lot of developers have asked Nintendo to put their content in Smash. Heck even some like Level-5 went straight to Sakurai himself at one point.

It's really more on Sakurai and Nintendo and who they want to choose I guess....
It's kind of wild to think that we as a collective hold more power to effect the roster than a lot of notable third-party developers.
 
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It is worth to mention that it is good to get as many points in favour of a character as possible.

If it was just that one bit what made someone find Crash likely I could understand the doubts. However, it is the amount of points in his favour after this E3 as a whole that makes him seem more possible than ever.

That being said doh, nobody is really a lock.
To be honest I don't think we have enough information to consider anyone as "likely". We just know who could (or probably won't) happen and why.

It's kind of wild to think that we as a collective hold more power to effect the roster than a lot of notable third-party developers.
Well we are the ones paying for the characters rather than the other way around. The only way another company could have any sort of weight in the decision is if they made their own model complete with all of the necessary animations, gift it to the development team, and then offer to cover the costs and resources required for implementation. And even then it would still just be a consideration.
 
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Well we are the ones paying for the characters rather than the other way around. The only way another company could have any sort of weight in the decision is if they made their own model complete with all of the necessary animations, gift it to the development team, and then offer to cover the costs and resources required for implementation. And even then it would still just be a consideration.
Ironically, I think this is what Ubisoft did with Rayman if I recall. They supplied them with the model and everything, and yet in the end, he still only ended up as a Trophy.

But then again, I guess they still supplied all that a tad too late at the games development...
 
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Nquoid

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Ironically, I think this is what Ubisoft did with Rayman if I recall. They supplied them with the model and everything, and yet in the end, he still only ended up as a Trophy.

But then again, I guess they still supplied all that a tad too late at the games development...
If anything that makes it more interesting he didn't make it into Ultimate. A third party developer having content in one game and then not making the jump in the next, especially when they release probably the most notable Mario crossover game outside of Mario and Sonic at the Olympics.
 
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Ironically, I think this is what Ubisoft did with Rayman if I recall. They supplied them with the model and everything, and yet in the end, he still only ended up as a Trophy.

But then again, I guess they still supplied all that a tad too late at the games development...
From what I recall Sakurai was already looking to make a trophy of Ray Man, and Ubisoft went the extra mile for him.

EDIT: I remember one of the Pics of the Day being about that. Also, the model they provided may not have been usable as a smash character for various reasons.
 
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Imagine Ubisoft desperately wanting their character in the game to the point they made a model and stuff, only for Nintendo to shut them down lol

I mean, at least he still gets spirit stuff in Ultimate. But maybe Ubisoft is content with Brawlhala...
 

N3ON

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Well we are the ones paying for the characters rather than the other way around. The only way another company could have any sort of weight in the decision is if they made their own model complete with all of the necessary animations, gift it to the development team, and then offer to cover the costs and resources required for implementation. And even then it would still just be a consideration.
It's true, but tbh, the characters that get in thanks to the diehard fanbase aren't typically the ones that appeal the most widely. The first priority of Smash is to sell, and they could do that just as effectively by focusing even more on, y'know, Mario and Pokemon and big third-parties. But to get such fanservice in the face of developers unsuccessfully vying for their characters (for a price, sure, but it's not like Smash isn't already a heavy investment) or by Nintendo going the easy route with a more Mario Kart or promotional method of roster building is certainly something special.

If anything that makes it more interesting he didn't make it into Ultimate. A third party developer having content in one game and then not making the jump in the next, especially when they release probably the most notable Mario crossover game outside of Mario and Sonic at the Olympics.
I guess Sakurai just don't want him, rip. x_x

Imagine Ubisoft desperately wanting their character in the game to the point they made a model and stuff, only for Nintendo to shut them down lol

I mean, at least he still gets spirit stuff in Ultimate. But maybe Ubisoft is content with Brawlhala...
Content, maybe. But I'm sure they'd still drop everything to get him in Smash.

I imagine they understand Banjo is a special case, but if we end up getting Doom Slayer or Crash or something, I bet there'd be some grumbling over in France. :awesome:
 
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