Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Hopefully Crash Bandicoot is next in line.

 

[Vrbtm]

Considering Joker's final smash had the blood from the original turned into sparkles and none of his fans complained, I don't think a bloodless Doomguy is impossible.

I will never understand people's absurd fetishes for playing as ultra watered-down excuses for M-rated characters.

That said, your willingness to accept that kind of thing doesn't make him more likely.

This thread is for speculation

Which is EXACTLY what I posted. Your attempt to shut down my opinion just because it doesn't align with yours is extremely insulting. Stop.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't Musou games use fantasy versions of a bunch of historical figures, though? I imagine that would be hard to translate to a Smash game, no? Genuinely curious here.

• Dynasty Warriors is based on the Romance in the Three Kingdowms novel, which is also based on the 3 Kingdoms era of China (it was originally a fighting game)
• Samurai Warriors is based on the Sengoku period
• There's also Warriors Orochi which is a big crossover between the 2 but adding characters from Chinese and Japanese history & mythology (and most recently Greek mythology for some reason)

Aside from the licensed games and spinoffs, Musou games do use historical figures with a couple of fictional characters as well. As far as the translation between Warriors and Smash goes, I think it wouldn't be too hard. All the characters in Musou games already have a moveset that could be implemented in Smash, and the only work around would have to be balancing it. As far as them being historical figures go, Hades and Medusa are based from Greek Mythology but are Kid Icarus' take on them, and they're spirits in the game. I think you could put a character like Cao Cao in Smash and not go through some sort of licensing nightmare since it's Omega Force's take on him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm talking about taking a chainsaw to a demon's chest to physically split its body open as geysers of blood spray out.

Ridley doesn't do things like that (on-screen, at least).

Nor would Doom Slayer. Try again. Blood won't show up in Smash, bar mayyyyyybe a trailer.

Not for the argument that I'm making.Not really at all.

It still stands. You're trying too hard here to justify a premise you don't know. PP means nothing. Your argument doesn't even make any remote sense. "PP was at one point a bonus but now is paid DLC, yet he somehow hard disconfirms all Spirits because some of the FP is 3rd party"? Yeah, I'm not seeing how you're remotely coming to this conclusion.

You're going to need to elaborate here because you're vastly missing a lot of data. The conclusion doesn't make any sense. Please be a lot more clear than what you said. We might be able to understand your position better.

 

[Akg0001]

I think the last 2 characters will be Steve and Leon.

And i think we will get a 2. Fighters pass, with characters from newer Switch titles (Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Zelda)

 

[Vrbtm]

Nor would Doom Slayer.

Are. You. Serious.

I can't even link you proof because I got in trouble for posting it before, lmao. That's how ****ed up and violent it is. I can't even post it here.

Look up "Doom Slayer chainsaw" on YouTube and feel bad for being wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Are. You. Serious.

I can't even link you proof because I got in trouble for posting it before, lmao. That's how ****ed up and violent it is. I can't even post it here.

Look up "Doom Slayer chainsaw" on YouTube and feel bad for being wrong.

The chainsaw isn't obligatory to add on his moveset.

 

[Vrbtm]

"PP was at one point a bonus but now is paid DLC, yet he somehow hard disconfirms all Spirits because some of the FP is 3rd party"?

Not some. MOST. MOST of the Fighter Pass is 3rd party at this point, and Plant isn't even considered part of it. Which was my point.

The chainsaw isn't obligatory to add on his moveset.

Then allow me to refer you to what I posted earlier:
I will never understand you people's absurd fetishes for playing as ultra watered-down excuses for M-rated characters.

That said, your personal willingness to accept that kind of garbage doesn't increase his chances.

 

[Flyboy]

I think I brought them up before but these leaks are currently hot in Japan.
These leaks got some things right but not that super big to make them credible enough yet imo. The first two are from the same person but the last one is not.







DQ Heroes and AoCF Switch port became true but the first could be just piggybacking and latter might be just a lucky guess.
Reimu is technically a fighting game character as well but I don't think it's the case though. But the third leak could be just talking something similar to the rumored Minecraft content treatment. Maybe spirits or Mii costumes.

Interesting to bring up that it may be spirits or Mii costumes. We still haven't gotten the Jackie Mii costume who is a female fighting game character, and a Tekken rep or SNK rep could come with female fighter Mii costumes (or maybe someone like Athena is an SNK rep). Good info, thanks!

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think I brought them up before but these leaks are currently hot in Japan.
These leaks got some things right but not that super big to make them credible enough yet imo. The first two are from the same person but the last one is not.

DQ Heroes and AoCF Switch port became true but the first could be just piggybacking and latter might be just a lucky guess.
Reimu is technically a fighting game character as well but I don't think it's the case though. But the third leak could be just talking something similar to the rumored Minecraft content treatment. Maybe spirits or Mii costumes.

Hm. Reimu would be interesting, though very niche. People were talking about Nakoruru a lot when it came to Samurai Shodown. Dunno who else it could be.

• Dynasty Warriors is based on the Romance in the Three Kingdowms novel, which is also based on the 3 Kingdoms era of China (it was originally a fighting game)
• Samurai Warriors is based on the Sengoku period
• There's also Warriors Orochi which is a big crossover between the 2 but adding characters from Chinese and Japanese history & mythology (and most recently Greek mythology for some reason)

Aside from the licensed games and spinoffs, Musou games do use historical figures with a couple of fictional characters as well. As far as the translation between Warriors and Smash goes, I think it wouldn't be too hard. All the characters in Musou games already have a moveset that could be implemented in Smash, and the only work around would have to be balancing it. As far as them being historical figures go, Hades and Medusa are based from Greek Mythology but are Kid Icarus' take on them, and they're spirits in the game. I think you could put a character like Cao Cao in Smash and not go through some sort of licensing nightmare since it's Omega Force's take on him.

Ah, I see, thanks. I knew it had something to do with 3 kingdoms, but wasn't aware of all of this. Maybe they could pick one of the more original characters instead of the ones based on historical figures then? I figure a Musou character could use a lot of AoE, though I have no idea how well that kind of playstyle would fare.

 

[osby]

Are. You. Serious.

I can't even link you proof because I got in trouble for posting it before, lmao. That's how ****ed up and violent it is. I can't even post it here.

Look up "Doom Slayer chainsaw" on YouTube and feel bad for being wrong.

I don't see your point. If they adapt the same move into Smash, it'd likely just work like Omega Yato.

This is turning into "Isabelle is too pacifist for Smash!" argument, which was pointless for the same reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

Not some. MOST. MOST of the Fighter Pass is 3rd party at this point, and Plant isn't even considered part of it. Which was my point.


Then allow me to refer you to what I posted earlier:
I will never understand people's absurd fetishes for playing as ultra watered-down excuses for M-rated characters.

That said, your willingness to accept that kind of thing doesn't make him more likely.

... Because people like Doomguy as a character?

I'm not a Doom fan or even someone invested on the series, but I'm sure that many people would love to see Doomguy face to face with other iconic videogame characters.

 

[N3ON]

Reminder that Doom Slayer is too violent for Smash.

Bayonetta's games containing extreme violence doesn't mean that violence is an important aspect of Bayonetta's character, whereas Doom Slayer/Doomguy is the human embodiment of bloody gory violence, which has no place in Smash.

Extreme violence isn't a crucial aspect of Bayo's character, true. Strange giraffe proportions, getting naked and swearing are much more intrinsic to her. Her catchphrase is "don't f*ck with a witch".

But things change for Smash. Don't think we weren't having almost the same debates back then about her.

Moreover, I'd direct you to a game called Quake Champions, in which Doomguy guest stars, and manages to not rip or tear anyone to pieces. He can function and be implemented in a toned down manner.

 

[osby]

That said, your personal willingness to accept that kind of garbage doesn't increase his chances.

Agreed, just like how your distaste towards it doesn't decreases his chances.

 

[Vrbtm]

I don't see your point. If they adapt the same move into Smash, it'd likely just work like Omega Yato.

Your personal willingness to accept a watered down G-rated Doom character doesn't make him more likely.

Agreed, just like how your distaste towards it doesn't decreases his chances.

Except it does, because my distaste comes from a place of logic.

 

[Nquoid]

The thing is, games like Mortal Kombat and Doom encourage violence through their mechanics. Glory Kills in Doom and Mortal Kombat through fatalities.

They could remove both those things but both of those franchises have been linked to violence and controversy since day one.

Bayonetta is probably the only example of a character where the violence was a problem, but that isn't rewarded via in game mechanics and it's the brief moments of sexual violence that pushed it over the edge in terms of age rating in Europe (the second game actually got a 16 rating rather than 18)

I'm sure there are more important things to worry about than whether the character is too violent. But its definitely not a mark in the pro column for them getting in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Are. You. Serious.

I can't even link you proof because I got in trouble for posting it before, lmao. That's how ****ed up and violent it is. I can't even post it here.

Look up "Doom Slayer chainsaw" on YouTube and feel bad for being wrong.

Yeah, I know all the moves. I play the games.

Point stands. We aren't getting blood in Smash beyond trailers at most. That goes against the ratings. It's not happening. If he's in, which is an if, it will be without blood and gore. They cannot change the rating of the game with DLC at all. The only thing they can have different ratings for is the Trailers. Never mind that Mortal Kombat is banned on home consoles(PC is fine) because of blood and gore. Doesn't affect Doom Slayer's chances in itself. Now let's see what actually does affect him;

Realistic bullets have never existed in Smash.
He lacks a ton of ballot votes for him to be considered.
Doom lacks a popularity in Japan, unlike the Banjo series.

All legitimate reasons. Extreme violence has never been one of them and never will be. It's easy to get around, as 100% proven by Ridley, who is just as violent as Doom Slayer, pulling off equivalent stuff within the series.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

While I don't think it's a cut and dry pattern like this it does line up with Nintendo trying to appease fans of all types and gather new demographics to Smash. Persona was a smash hit and Joker a modern icon especially among RPG fans. PS4 players would potentially get a Switch and Smash to play as him (and he sold the Fighters Pass for me as he's my pipe dream). DQ was for Japanese gamers of all ages. Banjo was for Xbox fans, people who left Nintendo for the Xbox or PS2 during the GameCube era.

With that in mind, I agree that we could see something more "casual" or "cute" for 4 and something more "mature" for 5.

Layton, Phoenix Wright, an Animal Crossing or Kirby newcomer, Minecraft Steve, or even something like an Undertale representative or a Harvest Moon/Stardew Valley farmer would all fall in line. Combination of soft or cartoonish aesthetics and casual source material with a wide reach.

Doomguy would be my prediction for 5, though Leon/Jill, Dovahkiin, 2B, Master Chief, Travis Touchdown, and even Ezio could potentially fill that slot out nicely.

The big thing to remember is that Nintendo is trying to court different types of gamers, which makes for an exciting pass.

If I recall correctly, Sakurai kind of made two groupings of characters, “cool” and “cute” when he did a interview about Isabelle getting into smash, maybe the remaining DLC characters will follow this pattern of a balance of cool and cute.

Of course it’s possible that the DLC doesn’t try to fit this mold, but I hope it does since I like variety in tones for characters.

 

[Vrbtm]

But things change for Smash. Don't think we weren't having almost the same debates back then about her.

As we should, because Bayonetta still doesn't belong in the game, but that's another subject.

Moreover, I'd direct you to a game called Quake Champions, in which Doomguy guest stars, and manages to not rip or tear anyone to pieces. He can function and be implemented in a toned down manner.

Still never happening.

 

[Deleted member]

Your personal willingness to accept a watered down G-rated Doom character doesn't make him more likely.

Except it does, because my distaste comes from a place of logic.

You can make a character from a R-rated product work for PG stuff with enough effort.

Why I am so sure on this? Because Guillermo Del Toro's Hellboy adaptation is more respectful to the original comic (which was marketed at an adult demographic) than the decent R-Rated reboot.

It's a matter of effort, not the rating your product gets.

 

[Strong Badam]

Hey hey, looks like stuff is getting heated here. If you'd like to hang out in this thread, engaging with "X character won't be in Smash" is a poor way to start things off. Why not instead post about a character you'd like to see in Smash and what they'd bring to the table? Many people far wiser than I have said that if you've nothing nice to say, then you ought to not say it at all.

 

[Flyboy]

If I recall correctly, Sakurai kind of made two groupings of characters, “cool” and “cute” when he did a interview about Isabelle getting into smash, maybe the remaining DLC characters will follow this pattern of a balance of cool and cute.

Of course it’s possible that the DLC doesn’t try to fit this mold, but I hope it does since I like variety in tones for characters.

I agree. I think variety is very exciting and so far the pass has had a pleasant balance. Joker is obviously very stylish and cool. Banjo is a cute, fun little funny animal. Hero is a bit of both with Toriyama's distinct cartoony style blending with the noble heroic archetype. I feel like we will get one Cute (Fingers crossed for Layton, Phoenix, Style Savvy...) and one Cool, both from new series or even genres.

 

[Vrbtm]

If he's in, which is an if, it will be without blood and gore.

It will also be without the BFG, because you can't say or even imply the word "****" in a Nintendo game that has Mario and Isabelle in it.

And no, they can't just pretend it stands for something else. It stands for "****." Period.

Ridley, who is just as violent as Doom Slayer, pulling off equivalent stuff within the series.

Not. Even. Close.

Why not instead post about a character you'd like to see in Smash and what they'd bring to the table?

Because at this point, there are simply no (realistic) characters who I really want in the game anymore. I'm pretty much fully satisfied with the roster. The only ideas left are the bad ones, in my opinion, and I should be allowed to express those thoughts. I don't care how many people disagree with me.

It's also not really what the thread is for, Mr. Big Smart Moderator. It's about speculation. What you EXPECT, not what you want.

 

[osby]

Hey hey, looks like stuff is getting heated here. If you'd like to hang out in this thread, engaging with "X character won't be in Smash" is a poor way to start things off. Why not instead post about a character you'd like to see in Smash and what they'd bring to the table? Many people far wiser than I have said that if you've nothing nice to say, then you ought to not say it at all.

Hmm... anyone else who'd take Nero over Dante? Not that I think he has a a chance. It's just he's my favorite DMC character, and a robot arm is too cool to pass.

 

[Dust319]

I'm not familiar with Musou games - not to **** on fans or anything, but the gameplay simply isn't for me.

Don't Musou games use fantasy versions of a bunch of historical figures, though? I imagine that would be hard to translate to a Smash game, no? Genuinely curious here.

Yes, the Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors series are based on and use the names of historical and legendary figures. I know we don’t have many rules for inclusion left but originating from a video game is still in play, which elimates any of those characters.
The Warriors Orochi games do have “original” characters, but these are based primarily on Japanese and Chinese folktales/myths, so they would be a grey area.
They have a plethora of other games they have done, but the ones featuring original characters are pretty slim: Gitarooman, Dead or Alive, Ninja Gaiden, and Nobunaga’s ambition immediately come to mind. And as much as I’d love to see Nyabunaga in Smash, Ninja Gaiden is pretty much the only IP most people would recognize.

 

[Vrbtm]

Why not instead post about a character you'd like to see in Smash and what they'd bring to the table?

Also, did you happen to miss THIS post, where I did JUST THAT, Mr. Big Helpful and Super Special Awesome Moderator?

Maybe you should apologize for acting like I didn't already try that, eh tough guy?

 

[Strong Badam]

Hmm... anyone else who'd take Nero over Dante? Not that I think he has a a chance. It's just he's my favorite DMC character, and a robot arm is too cool to pass.

This is an interesting thought; Dante's certainly a lot more iconic since he's in erry DMC. There's a lot to work with Nero's robotic arm for gameplay though. A Shulk-like stance system with his various devil breakers could be super rad. I also have a huge love of actual combat tethering mechanics; not tethering to a ledge, things more like MvC Spencer or Joker's non-Arsene Up-B where he brings you down to him. It'd be super sick in a platform fighter like Smash since a big draw to them is freedom of movement. Imagine Nero tethering to the bottom of a platform to get a swing going or something like that.

 

[Nquoid]

Definitely is. He's extremely violent in many of his attacks. Dragging people across the ground and stabbing them hard with his tail. Not seeing a serious difference here. Maybe cause there's not. He's severely violent in the Metroid canon. He kills multiple people(just like he did in his reveal trailer), especially in Other M, where it was confirmed he mutilated multiple characters. Do you even pay attention to the Metroid canon? Ridley is one of the most violent Nintendo characters in gaming history. Not even Ganondorf pulled anything remotely close, and he's the second most violent character. Worst he did was snap a neck and did stuff that was censored into a cleaner variant. Like freezing the Zoras entirely in OOT. We actually aren't shown what happened to tons of characters, just that they appeared to have moved outside of Hyrule Town. Most violent stuff he does is to Link, and that's not even in OOT. He also bleeds blood in OOT, in both Ganon and Ganondorf forms. Which are rated E10+.

There's violent Nintendo villains, very violent ones.

This is like comparing the violence in The Dark Knight to the violence in Logan. Yes, you can verbally describe what is happening as being incredibly violent. But the difference in how it's presented is crucial. Ridley is a violent character, but Doomguy is orders of magnitude more violent.

 

[Vrbtm]

BFG will not only be there, as it's his main weapon, he'll do so with censor swearing at best. Just like they did with the DK Rap. You're trying too hard here. FYI, it'll just be renamed Big Freaking Gun. You know, something that means the same thing? Or just call it BFG and never elaborate. There's no Trophy or Spirit descriptions.

How old are you?

And no, I'm afraid none of the examples of Ridley's supposed "extreme" levels of violence are very convincing at all. No gore, no intensity, no nothing.

Ridley simply isn't that violent. Stabbing someone with his tail isn't that violent if no blood is shown, no screaming is heard, and none of the gory details are on display. Doom Slayer is gratuitous for the sake of being gratuitous. That's why he'll never happen, because he clashes so hard with everyone else in that respect.

He won't get watered down because to water him down would be to destroy what makes the character fun and interesting for most of his fans.

This is like comparing the violence in The Dark Knight to the violence in Logan. Yes, you can verbally describe what is happening as being incredibly violent. But the difference in how it's presented is crucial. Ridley is a violent character, but Doomguy is orders of magnitude more violent.

This guy gets me.

 

[3BitSaurus]

What do you guys think the DLC Classic Modes will be?

I'm thinking Hero will fight against other RPG protagonists () with Rathalos as a boss and Banjo will fight against N64 era icons or maybe help N64 era characters fight against their villains ( with , with ).

 

[osby]

This is an interesting thought; Dante's certainly a lot more iconic since he's in erry DMC. There's a lot to work with Nero's robotic arm for gameplay though. A Shulk-like stance system with his various devil breakers could be super rad. I also have a huge love of actual combat tethering mechanics; not tethering to a ledge, things more like MvC Spencer or Joker's non-Arsene Up-B where he brings you down to him. It'd be super sick in a platform fighter like Smash since a big draw to them is freedom of movement. Imagine Nero tethering to the bottom of a platform to get a swing going or something like that.

That's a big reason why I have fun playing Isabelle. I think a command grab that can pull you towards your opponent can be interesting, if not very useful.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, the Hellboy example may not be completely clear... So I'll bring another one which may work better:

Scorpion on Injustice 1.

A Rated M character on a Rated T game... Which worked because it was done well enough to fit the rating.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I agree. I think variety is very exciting and so far the pass has had a pleasant balance. Joker is obviously very stylish and cool. Banjo is a cute, fun little funny animal. Hero is a bit of both with Toriyama's distinct cartoony style blending with the noble heroic archetype. I feel like we will get one Cute (Fingers crossed for Layton, Phoenix, Style Savvy...) and one Cool, both from new series or even genres.

Hero is a blend of both, but I feel like Sakurai really leaned into the "cool' factor for him. Just compare the the two trailers at the direct, Hero's focused on a cool fight while Banjo-Kazooie's focused on a funny running gag.

Personally my choice for the remaining "cute" character is Professor Layton and the remaining "cool" character is Jill/Leon.

 

[Deleted member]

That's a big reason why I have fun playing Isabelle. I think a command grab that can pull you towards your opponent can be interesting, if not very useful.

With me just talking about Scorpion, I do think that his classic chain attack could be adapted into something like that if he got in Smash.

And yeah, those kinds of grabs tend to be cool to use.

 

[osby]

What do you guys think the DLC Classic Modes will be?

I'm thinking Hero will fight against other RPG protagonists () with Rathalos as a boss and Banjo will fight against N64 era icons or maybe help N64 era characters fight against their villains ( with , with ).

I think Banjo and Kazooie will fight with other team fighters () while Hero fights with "legacy characters" (/, /, / etc.).

 

[N3ON]

I've said it before, but in terms of not being faithful to a character, I think turning relatively pacifist characters like Villager and WFT into participants in a game that revolves solely around fighting is a much bigger shift than taking already violent characters, and sanding down their rougher edges.

It's just that rating-wise, toning-down is more important than toning-up. But toning-up is generally more out-of-character imo. Like, conceptually, it's stranger getting smacked around by Isabelle than by Doom Slayer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is like comparing the violence in The Dark Knight to the violence in Logan. Yes, you can verbally describe what is happening as being incredibly violent. But the difference in how it's presented is crucial. Ridley is a violent character, but Doomguy is orders of magnitude more violent.

I don't see a difference when it comes to Smash, which is the point too.

Doom Slayer is a super violent character. Ridley is a super violent character. Both within their franchises. Metroid, especially the 3D games, are very horror-based in many ways, having a pretty big amount of gratuitous stuff. The bare difference is one is more onscreen than the other. The actual type of violence is extremely similar. You're both gunning down horrifying creatures, just one with lasers, and one with bullets. Metroid's actual key difference otherwise is a bit more exploration-based. Yet we have vastly violent creatures in both franchises. And it makes sense. Metroid literally has a character going to a very hostile planet full of unknown entities, including the leader of them, an evil dragon called Ridley, who went out of their to traumatize Samus by killing her parents right in front of her. Doom Slayer goes to hell and back, killing demons quite hardcore. The violence difference is... not exactly big.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ah, there's this. Forgot to talk about it earlier. Regarding Hero and Banjo's release dates, Hero would be anywhere between the end of June and the end of September. Banjo would be from the end of September to the end of December.

Factoring in the gaps between releases (which seem to be of about 2 months and a few days, generally speaking), this means Hero would come by the end of this month/beginning of July and Banjo would come by the end of September/beginning of October.

Meaning we either get the fourth DLC announced before Banjo releases (around August, since Directs tend to happen around that time) or it will get announced after Banjo releases, then launches at the same time. Basically a shadowdrop.

The violence difference is... not exactly big.

On the contrary, I think the difference is too big.

Sorry, Verde Coeden Scalesworth , you set yourself up for that one.

 

[N3ON]

This is like comparing the violence in The Dark Knight to the violence in Logan. Yes, you can verbally describe what is happening as being incredibly violent. But the difference in how it's presented is crucial. Ridley is a violent character, but Doomguy is orders of magnitude more violent.

If only you hadn't used the example of Wolverine as the "overly violent" character given how in all his other movies he's more toned down than Logan.

So thanks for helping prove how characters can get both toned up and toned down I guess.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Vrbtm is not on this thread anymore. Please do not reply to the user, as they cannot reply. No need to send extra alerts.