Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Nquoid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
80
Skyrim was the only third party game shown in the Switch unveiling.
Bethesda was the 4th third party to announce games for the Switch, the other 3 are Square Enix, Sega and Ubisoft (2 of which already have DLC, 1 has new content in the game).
There has never been a Bethesda game on Nintendo before this. (Unless we count DOOM, which we don't as they were not Bethesda at this point).
Obviously this doesn't prove a character is in, but after the disaster of the WiiU, this didn't just happen randomly.
They're definitely trying. But Ubisoft have worked with Nintendo pretty closely since the Wii days. Just Dance is the best selling third party game on the Wii and they did at least try and support the WiiU in the early days with Rayman Legends and ZombiU.

I just don't know much stock I put in Bethesda putting a 6 year old game on the Switch at launch and treating it like they're best buds now. Doom/Wolfenstein are I hope are signs of what's to come, and they must be selling well enough to continue the partnership, but not enough that them getting the second western rep feels logical
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
976
Location
Planet Ultimate
When do you guys predict they will unveil challengers 4 and 5 of the fighters pass?
Tough to say but as of now I guess I'll go with fighter 4 being revealed at the inevitable september direct alongside a release date for banjo and then fighter 5 will be revealed at the 2019 game awards.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
940
The rest of the DLC speculation will certainly be much more refreshing and open. However, I think Mii Costume theory will control the narrative, but even then, it will be nice to hear new names in the speculation scene besides Erdrick, Banjo, Steve, and Sora (the last one to a much lesser degree)
 

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,057
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
We pretty much know that not all of the 3rd Party Mii Fighter costumes from Smash 4 are coming back.
We really don't know that. We have a theory it might be the case, but we'd literally had one DLC costume reveal. That's not enough for a concrete statement.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
976
Location
Planet Ultimate
So some questions to y'all. Who do you guys think are the final two DLC characters to be revealed and why? I'm thinking Lloyd Irving and an Resident Evil rep (Either Jill or Leon).

How does Banjo's reveal affect Steve's and Master Chief's chances getting into Smash now?

How does Hero's reveal affect any other Square Enix rep's chances now?

Still any hope or chances for them?

Do you all agree that regardless of whoever is next that no one at this point is gonna top Banjo who is probably the biggest reveal that even:ultkrool:and:ultridley:doesn't match?

I'm genuinely curious is all.
Banjo getting in actually makes more Microsoft characters likelier now imo because we know how easily the gap can be bridged based on comments from Phil Spencer. The main thing keeping me from thinking Chief and Steve are happening is the seemingly inevitability of Bamco and Capcom reps.

I guess same thing for Hero though Square Enix is honestly probably a lot harder to work with than Microsoft and there aren't as many huge characters left to choose from in terms of Square Enix. Lara Croft is the only thing I could see matching Chief or Steve but I don't think Lara is happening.

As far as hope and chances go Steve is still going to be on my mind until we find out what the Minecraft content from Vergeben is. Chief would be an absolutely huge final reveal if they wanted to go that route so I wouldn't rule him out entirely.

Depends on what you mean by biggest reveal. As far as the smash fanbase goes maybe Waluigi could be bigger than Banjo but in terms of gaming as a whole there are tons of characters that could be bigger reveals than Banjo. Chief would be absolutely huge and probably break the internet if that happened.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
774
The rest of the DLC speculation will certainly be much more refreshing and open. However, I think Mii Costume theory will control the narrative, but even then, it will be nice to hear new names in the speculation scene besides Erdrick, Banjo, Steve, and Sora (the last one to a much lesser degree)
I’m not putting much stock into the costume theory. At least wait for Erdrick’s release as I’m of the belief that Summer will come with a ton of costumes that aren’t just Square based. I think Joker only got Sega due to priority and there not really needing to be much to come with him. Obviously he would bring in Persona costumes, I believe Sonic’s friends were also included because Sonic is the biggest 3rd party in Smash. I feel that if Joker didn’t have stage builder come with him, then the costume count may have been higher than 6, but since a major addition to Smash released along side him there was no need to add the usual crazy amount of costumes. To put it in perspective, Smash Ultimate brings in about half to 2/3rds the amount of costumes Wii U brought in pretty regularly, so they might kick it up a notch going forward.

To add onto my point, Wii U also released costumes without fighters, so it is entirely possible for them to just release the remaining costumes in like September before Banjo comes out, seeing as costumes aren’t tied to the fighter’s pass.

They're definitely trying. But Ubisoft have worked with Nintendo pretty closely since the Wii days. Just Dance is the best selling third party game on the Wii and they did at least try and support the WiiU in the early days with Rayman Legends and ZombiU.

I just don't know much stock I put in Bethesda putting a 6 year old game on the Switch at launch and treating it like they're best buds now. Doom/Wolfenstein are I hope are signs of what's to come, and they must be selling well enough to continue the partnership, but not enough that them getting the second western rep feels logical
Bethesda has done a good job of really putting all their content on Switch which is something Ubisoft still has to do as most of their games are still off Nintendo platforms. It also helps that Bethesda has gone and asked for Smash. They are clearly putting more of a foot forward than Ubisoft in terms of Smash, making me believe that they may work something out. Plus Doom is one of the legendary games according to Sakurai as he listed the creator as one of the most influential in the industry. Adding onto that Doom was one of the first games to really prove how powerful the Switch is as the port was impressive to many.

I still hope Ubisoft gets stuff though....
 
Last edited:

3BitSaurus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
249
Location
Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
Okay, so now that the Banjo thread has become a Social thread and this thread has calmed down, I'd like to register my thoughts about what yesterday means for the last remaining two DLC characters.

First things first: with what we got, arguments like "sales", "current relevancy" and "western reps" should be officially dead. Joker got in because Sakurai likes P5, not because of PQ2 and a possible Switch port, Banjo is currently in limbo and Hero, while technically inspired in the most recent DQ game, is also an amalgamation of 33 years of the series, with things that most westerners aren't really familiar with.

Sure, these points can help or hinder a character, but on their own they don't mean anything. Not anymore. Nothing is set in stone. The one thing all three characters share is that "they were thought to be impossible" by fans.

That was the more objective part. Now, a few opinions of mine:

While there is no rule saying that a company can't get two DLC characters, I do think Sega, Square Enix and Microsoft are pretty much done for the Fighter Pass. It would be naive of me to say anything is impossible at this point, but I do think it's unlikely.

Along with that, Sakurai is trying to appeal to different parts of the fanbase, as well as people from outside of the core Smash audience (which so far is working well imo). So I think they will go for different genres for the last two DLCs.

This means having both Joker and Hero could be a hit against other JRPG characters (a Tales rep), while Banjo hurts the chances of other platformer characters (like Crash). When you put this together with other stuff like the companies already involved in Smash... here are a few thoughts.

Bandai Namco: From the beginning, Bamco was one of the best candidates for DLC imo. It's so strange that they're helping make the Ultimate Smash Bros., yet only have one character of theirs in it.

As I've said above, I think Tales might have been hurt by two JRPG characters already in the pass. If we're going by presence in Smash 4 this makes Tekken the prime candidate as a series to get a new character. Specifically Heihachi, whom Sakurai flat out said he went for during Smash 4, but had trouble implementing. He would fit the theme of being "impossible" due to technical stuff, ironically.

There are other contenders, however. Soul Calibur is still a big deal and Dark Souls is kind of an exception to that thig with JRPGs because its demographic is vastly different. And this is only from the "Namco" side of things. I think Digimon should not be underestimated as a Bandai rep. And yes, even though most games are RPGs, there are other sources to pull from with Digimon, so it's another exception.

Capcom: Two characters already in Smash or not (three with Ken), it can't be denied that Capcom's huge amount of content in Ultimate means they are really keen on supporting it. And they are in advantage when it comes to having a library full of beloved, recognizable characters.

With Monster Hunter already having base game content and Dante deconfirmed, I think the most likely DLC could come from either Resident Evil or Ace Attorney, both of which kind of represent two new genres (in DLC) at once (respectively, Horror & Action/Shooter and Adventure/Visual Novel). They could also go with a "weirder" pick, like Viewtiful Joe, Amaterasu or Arthur, though I think these are slightly less likely.

Koei Tecmo: Though they technically already have content in Smash in the form of Fatal Frame, Tecmo is one of the only two companies that have content in Ultimate, but not a playable character (the other being Ubisoft).

The character most people talk about is Ryu Hayabusa. With Dragon Quest being in, Ninja Gaiden is arguably the last remaining NES-era icon not already in Smash. Personally, I don't know the possibility of other Tecmo characters, as all speculation seems to center around Hayabusa. The only thing in his way is the fact that he's... well, a retro character. I don't know how willing Nintendo will be to pursue another one after Banjo.

Ubisoft: With the floodgates for western characters now open and Ubi already having Rayman and some Rabbids as spirits, they would be in prime position for a character. Problem is... they honestly don't have many franchises that are big in Japan and I have no idea if Nintendo would allow another western-centric character for DLC after Banjo. That doesn't mean it's impossible, though.

The ones people seem to talk about are an Assassin's Creed character (Ezio is usually the one talked about) or a Rabbid. I think both could please different segments of an audience that normally doesn't care for Smash, with AC appealing to core gamers outside of Smash and the Rabbids appealing to the casual masses. It could go either way, really.

Bethesda: While they don't have content in Smash, Bethesda seems to be giving a good amount of support to the Switch. Sakurai also seems to be a Fallout fan and we all know that Sakurai liking things can go a long way sometimes.

Doom Slayer/Guy/Marine seems to get the most attention, especially because it would be a western Shooter rep, but Elder Scrolls and Fallout could also bring that Western RPG charm with them, who knows?

SNK: Seriously, why are you guys sleeping on SNK? They might have lost power compared to the arcade era, but their games are still nothing to scoff at. Along with Level-5, they're the last notable japanese company without any sort of content in Ultimate.

The most obvious rep would be Terry, representing both Fatal Fury and KOF, in a way. There's also Samurai Shodown to take into account. All in all, when it comes to fighting game characters, SNK is toe to toe with Bamco regarding Smash DLC.

Level-5: Level-5 has been a good partner with Nintendo for the last few years. While I think a Yo-Kai watch character was hurt by the presence of Joker and Erdrick, there's still Professor Layton. If SNK characters go toe to toe with Tekken and Soul Calibur, Layton does the same for Ace Attorney and should not be underestimated for his genre and the appeal of his series with a more casual audience.

...God, that was a huge post. Sorry, took a while to gather my thoughts about everything, but this is the current state of the FP imo.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
9,805
Location
London
3DS FC
5413-1097-4150
I’m not putting much stock into the costume theory. At least wait for Erdrick’s release as I’m of the belief that Summer will come with a ton of costumes that aren’t just Square based. I think Joker only got Sega due to priority and there not really needing to be much to come with him. Obviously he would bring in Persona costumes, I believe Sonic’s friends were also included because Sonic is the biggest 3rd party in Smash. I feel that if Joker didn’t have stage builder come with him, then the costume count may have been higher than 6, but since a major addition to Smash released along side him there was no need to add the usual crazy amount of costumes. To put it in perspective, Smash Ultimate brings in about half to 2/3rds the amount of costumes Wii U brought in pretty regularly, so they might kick it up a notch going forward.

To add onto my point, Wii U also released costumes without fighters, so it is entirely possible for them to just release the remaining costumes in like September before Banjo comes out, seeing as costumes aren’t tied to the fighter’s pass.
Yeah I think that's probably going to be the case. How many costumes average did we get last time?
Plus we will probably get an extra costume pack during a large drought point, like we did last time.

It's probably for the best to take a wait and see approach for now as far as costume theory is concerned. Especially since we still only have gotten one pack in so far.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
13,170
Location
Down on the corner, out in the street.
Okay, so now that the Banjo thread has become a Social thread and this thread has calmed down, I'd like to register my thoughts about what yesterday means for the last remaining two DLC characters.

First things first: with what we got, arguments like "sales", "current relevancy" and "western reps" should be officially dead. Joker got in because Sakurai likes P5, not because of PQ2 and a possible Switch port, Banjo is currently in limbo and Hero, while technically inspired in the most recent DQ game, is also an amalgamation of 33 years of the series, with things that most westerners aren't really familiar with.

Sure, these points can help or hinder a character, but on their own they don't mean anything. Not anymore. Nothing is set in stone. The one thing all three characters share is that "they were thought to be impossible" by fans.

That was the more objective part. Now, a few opinions of mine:

While there is no rule saying that a company can't get two DLC characters, I do think Sega, Square Enix and Microsoft are pretty much done for the Fighter Pass. It would be naive of me to say anything is impossible at this point, but I do think it's unlikely.

Along with that, Sakurai is trying to appeal to different parts of the fanbase, as well as people from outside of the core Smash audience (which so far is working well imo). So I think they will go for different genres for the last two DLCs.

This means having both Joker and Hero could be a hit against other JRPG characters (a Tales rep), while Banjo hurts the chances of other platformer characters (like Crash). When you put this together with other stuff like the companies already involved in Smash... here are a few thoughts.

Bandai Namco: From the beginning, Bamco was one of the best candidates for DLC imo. It's so strange that they're helping make the Ultimate Smash Bros., yet only have one character of theirs in it.

As I've said above, I think Tales might have been hurt by two JRPG characters already in the pass. If we're going by presence in Smash 4 this makes Tekken the prime candidate as a series to get a new character. Specifically Heihachi, whom Sakurai specifically said he went for during Smash 4, but had trouble implementing. He would fit the theme of being "impossible" due to technical stuff, ironically.

There are other contenders, however. Soul Calibur is still a big deal and Dark Souls is kind of an exception to that thig with JRPGs because its demographic is vastly different. And this is only from the "Namco" side of things. I think Digimon should not be underestimated as a Bandai rep. And yes, even though most games are RPGs, there are other sources to pull from with Digimon, so it's another exception.

Capcom: Two characters already in Smash or not (three with Ken), it can't be denied that Capcom's huge amount of content in Ultimate means they are really keen on supporting it. And they are in advantage when it comes to having a library full of beloved, recognizable characters.

With Monster Hunter already having base game content and Dante deconfirmed, I think the most likely DLC could come from either Resident Evil or Ace Attorney, both of which kind of represent two new genres (in DLC) at once (respectively, Horror & Action/Shooter and Adventure/Visual Novel). They could also go with a "weirder" pick, like Viewtiful Joe, Amaterasu or Arthur, though I think these are slightly less likely.

Koei Tecmo: Though they technically already have content in Smash in the form of Fatal Frame, Tecmo is one ofthe only two companies that have content in Ultimate, but not a playable character (the other being Ubisoft).

The character most people talk about is Ryu Hayabusa. With Dragon Quest being in, Ninja Gaiden is arguably the last remaining NES-era icon not already in Smash. Personally, I don't know the possibility of other Tecmo characters, as all speculation seems to center around Hayabusa. The only thing in his way is the fact that he's... well, a retro character. I don't know how willing Nintendo will be to pursue another one after Banjo.

Ubisoft: With the floodgates for western characters now open and Ubi already having Rayman and some Rabbids as spirits, they would be in prime position for a character. Problem is... they honestly don't have many franchises that are big in Japan and I have no idea if Nintendo would allow another western-centric character for DLC after Banjo. That doesn't mean it's impossible, though.

The ones people seem to talk about are an Assassin's Creed character (Ezio is usually the one talked about) or a Rabbid. I think both could please different segments of an audience that normally doesn't care for Smash, with AC appealing to core gamers outside of Smash and the Rabbids appealing to the casual masses. It could go either way, really.

Bethesda: While they don't have content in Smash, Bethesda seems to be giving a good amount of support to the Switch. Sakurai also seems to be a Fallout fan and we all know that Sakurai liking things can go a long way sometimes.

Doom Slayer/Guy/Marine seems to get the most attention, especially because it would be a western Shooter rep, but Elder Scrolls and Fallout could also bring that Western RPG charm with them, who knows?

SNK: Seriously, why are you guys sleeping on SNK? They might have lost power compared to the arcade era, but their games are still nothing to scoff at. Along with Level-5, they're the last notable japanese company without any sort of content in Ultimate.

The most obvious rep would be Terry, representing both Fatal Fury and KOF, in a way. There's also Samurai Shodown to take into account. All in all, when it comes to fighting game characters, SNK is toe to toe with Bamco regarding Smash DLC.

Level-5: Level-5 has been a good partner with Nintendo for the last few years. While I think a Yo-Kai watch character was hurt by the presence of Joker and Erdrick, there's still Professor Layton. If SNK characters go toe to toe with Tekken and Soul Calibur, Layton does the same for Ace Attorney and should not be underestimated for his genre and the appeal of his series with a more casual audience.

...God, that was a huge post. Sorry, took a while to gather my thoughts about everything, but this is the current state of the FP imo.
GOAT post my friend, that was a great read.

SNK: Seriously, why are you guys sleeping on SNK? They might have lost power compared to the arcade era, but their games are still nothing to scoff at. Along with Level-5, they're the last notable japanese company without any sort of content in Ultimate.
HUGE FACTS

This is what I've been telling people ever since I've started pushing the Kyo in Smash Ultimate agenda. SNK have had their characters crossover into a TON of fighting games as of late, so it's easy to see SNK playing ball with Sakurai on Ultimate.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
774
Now thinking about it, why is no one mentioning Travis as he literally just had two big comebacks this year, has been requested since the Smash 4 days, and his creator is very vocal about wanting to be involved in Smash. Plus, Smash’s 3rd party history has been big on very cinematic and stylish M rating characters with our first being Snake, Bayonetta ending the 4 DLC, and Joker beginning this run, maybe we should cap off Smash Ultimate with a stylish, cinematic, a brutal M Rated character like Travis for old time sake.
 

3BitSaurus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
249
Location
Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
Now thinking about it, why is no one mentioning Travis as he literally just had two big comebacks this year, has been requested since the Smash 4 days, and his creator is very vocal about wanting to be involved in Smash. Plus, Smash’s 3rd party history has been big on very cinematic and stylish M rating characters with our first being Snake, Bayonetta ending the 4 DLC, and Joker beginning this run, maybe we should cap off Smash Ultimate with a stylish, cinematic, a brutal M Rated character like Travis for old time sake.
I would have included him in my post, but sadly he got deconfirmed earlier this year. Such a shame, especially since he has a new game and that Travis Strikes Back is literally set inside video games.
 

Flyboy

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,745
Location
Dayton, OH
Now thinking about it, why is no one mentioning Travis as he literally just had two big comebacks this year, has been requested since the Smash 4 days, and his creator is very vocal about wanting to be involved in Smash. Plus, Smash’s 3rd party history has been big on very cinematic and stylish M rating characters with our first being Snake, Bayonetta ending the 4 DLC, and Joker beginning this run, maybe we should cap off Smash Ultimate with a stylish, cinematic, a brutal M Rated character like Travis for old time sake.
I've wanted Travis for a very, very long time. He's a Nintendo icon in his own way and would absolutely bring in a new demographic. Sure, he's been "deconfirmed", but so was Shang Tsung in MK11 and we all know how that turned out.

I'm not holding out hope exactly - honestly NMH3 finally being confirmed after nine years was enough to bring me to tears - but I would be over the ****ing moon. Have wanted him near the top of my most-wanted list since Brawl.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,011
We really don't know that. We have a theory it might be the case, but we'd literally had one DLC costume reveal. That's not enough for a concrete statement.
According to the Costume Theory, Akira and Jacky can't return unless they come with a second Sega fighter, which according to the Costume Theory, this can't happen because according to that theory the last two DLC characters will come from franchises made by Capcom and Namco Bandai. I highly doubt that Akira and Jacky are coming back anyways because they didn't come with Joker and I highly doubt that we're getting another character from Sega.
 
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
249
Location
Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
According to the Costume Theory, Akira and Jacky can't return unless they come with a second Sega fighter, which according to the Costume Theory, this can't happen because according to that theory the last two DLC characters will come from franchises made by Capcom and Namco Bandai. I highly doubt that Akira and Jacky are coming back anyways because they didn't come with Joker and I highly doubt that we're getting another character from Sega.
Costume theory fails to take into account that not all costumes came with a corresponding character in Smash 4. Two Megaman Costumes came with Mewtwo, Akira, Jacky and Heihachi came with Ryu, Gil came with Bayonetta. Plus the Monster Hunter Costumes came on standalone.
 

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,057
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
According to the Costume Theory, Akira and Jacky can't return unless they come with a second Sega fighter, which according to the Costume Theory, this can't happen because according to that theory the last two DLC characters will come from franchises made by Capcom and Namco Bandai. I highly doubt that Akira and Jacky are coming back anyways because they didn't come with Joker and I highly doubt that we're getting another character from Sega.
Costume theory is just a theory. It's not a remote fact and shouldn't be taken as one.

I can get doubting it. That's fine. But you're acting like anything is confirmed. The first post I quoted wasn't a case of "I doubt it", you were declaring it as a hard fact. Seems the issue is your wording is misleading, causing some confusion here.

I'm honestly thinking all the costumes are coming back and that the Costume Theory is meaningless. It's a pattern, and those have been broken/subverted quite often.
 
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
249
Location
Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
I've wanted Travis for a very, very long time. He's a Nintendo icon in his own way and would absolutely bring in a new demographic. Sure, he's been "deconfirmed", but so was Shang Tsung in MK11 and we all know how that turned out.

I'm not holding out hope exactly - honestly NMH3 finally being confirmed after nine years was enough to bring me to tears - but I would be over the ****ing moon. Have wanted him near the top of my most-wanted list since Brawl.
Real talk here - whenever a deconfirmation happens, I just don't hold my breath for that character anymore. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be happy if, say, Sora made it despite everything against him right now. I'm just holding my expectations in check.

It's hard to know when people are lying or if the deconfirmation is real. There is the MK11 thing you talked about and also Grant Kirkhope saying he wasn't involved in Smash. Turns out he became the first ever western composer to help with the project.

But yeah, ultimately you're right.
 

Nquoid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
80
According to the Costume Theory, Akira and Jacky can't return unless they come with a second Sega fighter, which according to the Costume Theory, this can't happen because according to that theory the last two DLC characters will come from franchises made by Capcom and Namco Bandai. I highly doubt that Akira and Jacky are coming back anyways because they didn't come with Joker and I highly doubt that we're getting another character from Sega.
I think Costume Theory has more flexibility than it's given credit for. I agree that rigidly saying "THESE COMPANIES ARE IN BECAUSE THEY HAD COSTUMES LAST TIME" is wrong headed. But I can see Akira and Jacky coming with a character from a fighting game. Like Heihachi, Soul Calibur or a SNK rep. To me it's more like, "how many of these costumes can we fit back into the game with similar characters?" whether that's genre or company it's hard to say
 

Nquoid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
80
So in terms of companies with costumes left to come back:

Square x 2 (Chocobo, Geno) - Almost certainly coming with DQ Hero
Namco x 3 (Heihachi, Lloyd, Gil) - Lloyd could fit with DQ Hero as a JRPG set. But also one of Lloyd/Heihachi could be retired as the most likely Namco rep
Capcom x 6 (4x Mega Man, 2x Monster Hunter) - Barring Resident Evil or Ace Attorney making it in, these could almost certainly just come out as their own costume bundle separate to a character.
Sega x 2 (2x Virtua Fighter) - As previously said, if a character from a fighting game happened, these could easily be bundled in there.
 
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
249
Location
Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
Namco got costumes last time without a DLC character, they can do the same thing for any character.
Most of Capcom's costume DLC wasn't released with Ryu.
The theory is really silly.
I mean, it does have a good point in that Mii costumes seem like profitable DLC to return and that they would be even more profitable if the same companies also gave new characters of their own, but... I don't tink being too rigid on this is a good thing.

I think there is a good chance of all the mii costumes returning, but we don't know how. Some may even be sold separately.

Heck, if you stretch it really hard, for example, all Capcom costumes could come with the two DLCs revealed yesterday.

Proto Man, Zero and X could come with Banjo, as they're all from platformers. The two MH and MegaMan.EXE costumes could come with Hero, as they both are RPGs.

No, I don't think it would actually happen like this, but it's just to show how these "rules" can be bent around.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 7, 2019
Messages
102
Location
Parts Unknown
Koei Tecmo: Though they technically already have content in Smash in the form of Fatal Frame, Tecmo is one ofthe only two companies that have content in Ultimate, but not a playable character (the other being Ubisoft).

The character most people talk about is Ryu Hayabusa. With Dragon Quest being in, Ninja Gaiden is arguably the last remaining NES-era icon not already in Smash. Personally, I don't know the possibility of other Tecmo characters, as all speculation seems to center around Hayabusa. The only thing in his way is the fact that he's... well, a retro character. I don't know how willing Nintendo will be to pursue another one after Banjo.
He's currently the strongest candidate for Koei-Tecmo to put in Smash, but a Dark Horse pick that I could see happening is a Musou character.

Both Warriors and the modern Ninja Gaiden games are essentially hack n slashers but in terms of gameplay are completely different. Ninja Gaiden could be seen as the more traditional hardcore hack n slasher where every input matters and you have to think on the fly most of the time; meanwhile, Warriors games are more like making the player into a God in a sense where you knock down waves and waves of inferior enemies while other events happen in the background. If that approach about trying to appeal to various types of audiences is to be believed, a Musou rep like Zhao Yun, Yukimura Sanada, or Lu Bu might be a much more fitting candidate than Hayabusa in that aspect, even if the gameplay is super repetitive and very hit or miss to a lot of audiences. Plus, Musou games have some amazing soundtracks like Thousand Suns and Crush'em All, so to hear those tracks possibly remixed or in Smash would be great.

It could go either way for Koei-Tecmo, but since both games are from different and notable developers, Ryu Hayabusa would be Team Ninja's rep while a Musou character would be Omega Force's rep. I'd be more ecstatic to see Hayabusa in Smash for sure, but I'd also like to see a Musou character in Smash.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
1,105
NNID
Gameboi834
Namco got costumes last time without a DLC character, they can do the same thing for any character.
Most of Capcom's costume DLC wasn't released with Ryu.
Yeah...in Smash 4. But this isn't Smash 4, and all of the costumes released with Joker were Sega properties.

I don't think we should write off costume theory until we get more info on Hero's Mii costumes.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
1,461
Location
Italy
NNID
Iko_MattOrr
Something that I noticed... I think I found a pattern, kinda.

The base game had 6 newcomers (excluding echoes), the DLCs are six, including the plant.

What if they are picked with the same criteria, trying to please different categories of players? Maybe each category of player they considered, will recive 1 base game character and 1 DLC game character.
Also, it's still possible that not all the DLC characters will be third parties. On the website, they put the plant along with the other DLCs, and the plant is a Mario character.

This would mean that, in cae it's true, the base newcomer roster and the DLC roster would be similar in some way.

Let's try to connect the characters:

Inkling/Piranha Plant: the popular/mainstream Nintendo character.
King K. Rool/Banjo Kazooie: the old character returning, very requested by the fans, more popular in the occident (and both by Rare).
Incineroar/Joker: character from a modern RPG series, fight in a spectacular way and with a unique style, be it wrestling or all those poses Joker does.
Simon/Hero: hero characters from their respective series; both universes set in environments that seem to be in the past (medieval or gothic stuff wathever) with castles and fantasy/mythological creatures.

Now, the last remaining characters are Isabelle and Ridley.

-Isabelle can be interpreted as the cute character, so a DLC can be anything that has a cute factor. Be it someone like Arle, or a pokèmon like Eevee, or wathever. It can also be a character from a series that's mostly aimed at kids but despite this it has a longtime fanbase supporting it, like Animal Crossing, but the only series I can think of that fits this criteria is Kirby, I'm not sure if any third party fits as well. If cuteness is not a factor, maybe they will consider the type of game, where you explore an environment filled with nature, you cut trees, arrange furniture and flowers, spend time fishing and catching bugs, etc... maybe Minecraft fits this category, since you can sort of do similar things in that series as well. So it can be Steve as well (or characters from other series based on similar concepts as Animal Crossing, such as for example Harvest Moon, I don't know).

-Ridley: if they use the Metroid series as reference, it can be someone from a sci-fi series with aliens and monsters, someone wild and cool. Maybe Doom Slayer, or someone else, I don't know. If the spirits theory has still some value, it can even be Sylux, but at this point I doubt. If sci-fi is not important, it can be someone from Dark Souls too. Another way could be that he has been chosen due to the fan requests, and to cover this, they must select another super requested character. There's no doubt that Geno is the guy, the only one who can match the hype of Ridley's reveal.

so, the sum of my speculation is:

DLC4
-cute character, Arle, cutesy pokèmon, Kirby character, Steve or others.

DLC5
-some bad*** alien monster thing, Sylux/MP4 character, Doom Slayer, Dark Souls character, or Geno. EDIT: a Resident Evil character fits this too.
 
Last edited:

Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
11,704
Switch FC
SW-2772-0149-6703
When do you guys predict they will unveil challengers 4 and 5 of the fighters pass?
Both in December in a Final Smash Direct similar to 2015. Given that both the DQ Hero and Banjo have release timetables and that Fighter's 4 & 5 are in the early stages of development, I think it's likely we don't see them until then.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
774
Something that I noticed... I think I found a pattern, kinda.

The base game had 6 newcomers (excluding echoes), the DLCs are six, including the plant.

What if they are picked with the same criteria, trying to please different categories of players? Maybe each category of player they considered, will recive 1 base game character and 1 DLC game character.
Also, it's still possible that not all the DLC characters will be third parties. On the website, they put the plant along with the other DLCs, and the plant is a Mario character.

This would mean that, in cae it's true, the base newcomer roster and the DLC roster would be similar in some way.

Let's try to connect the characters:

Inkling/Piranha Plant: the popular/mainstream Nintendo character.
King K. Rool/Banjo Kazooie: the old character returning, very requested by the fans, more popular in the occident (and both by Rare).
Incineroar/Joker: character from a modern RPG series, fight in a spectacular way and with a unique style, be it wrestling or all those poses Joker does.
Simon/Hero: hero characters from their respective series; both universes set in environments that seem to be in the past (medieval or gothic stuff wathever) with castles and fantasy/mythological creatures.

Now, the last remaining characters are Isabelle and Ridley.

-Isabelle can be interpreted as the cute character, so a DLC can be anything that has a cute factor. Be it someone like Arle, or a pokèmon like Eevee, or wathever. It can also be a character from a series that's mostly aimed at kids but despite this it has a longtime fanbase supporting it, like Animal Crossing, but the only series I can think of that fits this criteria is Kirby, I'm not sure if any third party fits as well. If cuteness is not a factor, maybe they will consider the type of game, where you explore an environment filled with nature, you cut trees, arrange furniture and flowers, spend time fishing and catching bugs, etc... maybe Minecraft fits this category, since you can sort of do similar things in that series as well. So it can be Steve as well (or characters from other series based on similar concepts as Animal Crossing, such as for example Harvest Moon, I don't know).

-Ridley: if they use the Metroid series as reference, it can be someone from a sci-fi series with aliens and monsters, someone wild and cool. Maybe Doom Slayer, or someone else, I don't know. If the spirits theory has still some value, it can even be Sylux, but at this point I doubt. If sci-fi is not important, it can be someone from Dark Souls too. Another way could be that he has been chosen due to the fan requests, and to cover this, they must select another super requested character. There's no doubt that Geno is the guy, the only one who can match the hype of Ridley's reveal.

so, the sum of my speculation is:

DLC4
-cute character, Arle, cutesy pokèmon, Kirby character, Steve or others.

DLC5
-some bad*** alien monster thing, Sylux/MP4 character, Doom Slayer, Dark Souls character, or Geno.
I think the criteria is more broad than that, it seems to be more so a catering of long time requests and big new Nintendo icons.

Obviously K Rool, Banjo, and Castlevania (Alucard was the popular one) were huge ballot picks

Ridley has been popular and acknowledged since Melee, fitting the criteria.

I think we can presume that Dragon Quest was a huge ballot filler in Japan

Chrom was said to have been popular in Japan, but he is sort of the modern face of FE along with Lucina, so he also fits the new icons criteria.

Persona 5, while not on the ballot for obvious reasons, became a defacto Nintendo icon and super popular in the Nintendo community and Smash due to big voices such as Alpharad and RelaxAlax championing it. Persona sort of fits the requests.

Daisy sort of fits both categories as clearly Nintendo is pushing her a bit more (Mario Run) but she has also been requested for years.

Isabelle is a both scenario as she is super popular and the face of Animal Crossing making her a new Nintendo icon, but she is also pretty popular in the Smash picks.

Incineroar was a new Nintendo icon

Inklings could fall under both being major players on the ballot and the face of the biggest new Nintendo IP

Ken and the Plant break this rule, but are in for their own reasons with the plant being the “Joke Fighter” of this game and Ken being the “Original Echo.”

If anything, a big fan demand character or a more modern Nintendo 3rd party will likely get in. Doom Slayer could probably fit the new category. Maybe Phoenix, Travis, Lloyd, Sora, or someone else would join after.
 

3BitSaurus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
249
Location
Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
He's currently the strongest candidate for Koei-Tecmo to put in Smash, but a Dark Horse pick that I could see happening is a Musou character.

Both Warriors and the modern Ninja Gaiden games are essentially hack n slashers but in terms of gameplay are completely different. Ninja Gaiden could be seen as the more traditional hardcore hack n slasher where every input matters and you have to think on the fly most of the time; meanwhile, Warriors games are more like making the player into a God in a sense where you knock down waves and waves of inferior enemies while other events happen in the background. If that approach about trying to appeal to various types of audiences is to be believed, a Musou rep like Zhao Yun, Yukimura Sanada, or Lu Bu might be a much more fitting candidate than Hayabusa in that aspect, even if the gameplay is super repetitive and very hit or miss to a lot of audiences. Plus, Musou games have some amazing soundtracks like Thousand Suns and Crush'em All, so to hear those tracks possibly remixed or in Smash would be great.

It could go either way for Koei-Tecmo, but since both games are from different and notable developers, Ryu Hayabusa would be Team Ninja's rep while a Musou character would be Omega Force's rep. I'd be more ecstatic to see Hayabusa in Smash for sure, but I'd also like to see a Musou character in Smash.
I'm not familiar with Musou games - not to **** on fans or anything, but the gameplay simply isn't for me.

Don't Musou games use fantasy versions of a bunch of historical figures, though? I imagine that would be hard to translate to a Smash game, no? Genuinely curious here.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
1,461
Location
Italy
NNID
Iko_MattOrr
I think the criteria is more broad than that, it seems to be more so a catering of long time requests and big new Nintendo icons.

Obviously K Rool, Banjo, and Castlevania (Alucard was the popular one) were huge ballot picks

Ridley has been popular and acknowledged since Melee, fitting the criteria.

I think we can presume that Dragon Quest was a huge ballot filler in Japan

Chrom was said to have been popular in Japan, but he is sort of the modern face of FE along with Lucina, so he also fits the new icons criteria.

Persona 5, while not on the ballot for obvious reasons, became a defacto Nintendo icon and super popular in the Nintendo community and Smash due to big voices such as Alpharad and RelaxAlax championing it. Persona sort of fits the requests.

Daisy sort of fits both categories as clearly Nintendo is pushing her a bit more (Mario Run) but she has also been requested for years.

Isabelle is a both scenario as she is super popular and the face of Animal Crossing making her a new Nintendo icon, but she is also pretty popular in the Smash picks.

Incineroar was a new Nintendo icon

Inklings could fall under both being major players on the ballot and the face of the biggest new Nintendo IP

Ken and the Plant break this rule, but are in for their own reasons with the plant being the “Joke Fighter” of this game and Ken being the “Original Echo.”

If anything, a big fan demand character or a more modern Nintendo 3rd party will likely get in. Doom Slayer could probably fit the new category. Maybe Phoenix, Travis, Lloyd, Sora, or someone else would join after.
But if that was true, then characters such as Waluigi, Krystal, Ashley, Isaac etc. would have been front runners for base roster or DLC. They were randomly deconfirmed with ease instead. I think there is something more than just catering long requests.

And even some Nintendo icons are still left out, such as Dixie Kong, Toad and the rest of the Star Fox crew. I'm sure that there is some more complex criteria behind.

Also no matter how much people make it seems logical that Joker was going to be a DLC in retrospective; before the announcement, nobody would have guessed that he was coming to Smash for real. Nor Piranha Plant.
 

Flyboy

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,745
Location
Dayton, OH
Something that I noticed... I think I found a pattern, kinda.

The base game had 6 newcomers (excluding echoes), the DLCs are six, including the plant.

What if they are picked with the same criteria, trying to please different categories of players? Maybe each category of player they considered, will recive 1 base game character and 1 DLC game character.
Also, it's still possible that not all the DLC characters will be third parties. On the website, they put the plant along with the other DLCs, and the plant is a Mario character.

This would mean that, in cae it's true, the base newcomer roster and the DLC roster would be similar in some way.

Let's try to connect the characters:

Inkling/Piranha Plant: the popular/mainstream Nintendo character.
King K. Rool/Banjo Kazooie: the old character returning, very requested by the fans, more popular in the occident (and both by Rare).
Incineroar/Joker: character from a modern RPG series, fight in a spectacular way and with a unique style, be it wrestling or all those poses Joker does.
Simon/Hero: hero characters from their respective series; both universes set in environments that seem to be in the past (medieval or gothic stuff wathever) with castles and fantasy/mythological creatures.

Now, the last remaining characters are Isabelle and Ridley.

-Isabelle can be interpreted as the cute character, so a DLC can be anything that has a cute factor. Be it someone like Arle, or a pokèmon like Eevee, or wathever. It can also be a character from a series that's mostly aimed at kids but despite this it has a longtime fanbase supporting it, like Animal Crossing, but the only series I can think of that fits this criteria is Kirby, I'm not sure if any third party fits as well. If cuteness is not a factor, maybe they will consider the type of game, where you explore an environment filled with nature, you cut trees, arrange furniture and flowers, spend time fishing and catching bugs, etc... maybe Minecraft fits this category, since you can sort of do similar things in that series as well. So it can be Steve as well (or characters from other series based on similar concepts as Animal Crossing, such as for example Harvest Moon, I don't know).

-Ridley: if they use the Metroid series as reference, it can be someone from a sci-fi series with aliens and monsters, someone wild and cool. Maybe Doom Slayer, or someone else, I don't know. If the spirits theory has still some value, it can even be Sylux, but at this point I doubt. If sci-fi is not important, it can be someone from Dark Souls too. Another way could be that he has been chosen due to the fan requests, and to cover this, they must select another super requested character. There's no doubt that Geno is the guy, the only one who can match the hype of Ridley's reveal.

so, the sum of my speculation is:

DLC4
-cute character, Arle, cutesy pokèmon, Kirby character, Steve or others.

DLC5
-some bad*** alien monster thing, Sylux/MP4 character, Doom Slayer, Dark Souls character, or Geno. EDIT: a Resident Evil character fits this too.
While I don't think it's a cut and dry pattern like this it does line up with Nintendo trying to appease fans of all types and gather new demographics to Smash. Persona was a smash hit and Joker a modern icon especially among RPG fans. PS4 players would potentially get a Switch and Smash to play as him (and he sold the Fighters Pass for me as he's my pipe dream). DQ was for Japanese gamers of all ages. Banjo was for Xbox fans, people who left Nintendo for the Xbox or PS2 during the GameCube era.

With that in mind, I agree that we could see something more "casual" or "cute" for 4 and something more "mature" for 5.

Layton, Phoenix Wright, an Animal Crossing or Kirby newcomer, Minecraft Steve, or even something like an Undertale representative or a Harvest Moon/Stardew Valley farmer would all fall in line. Combination of soft or cartoonish aesthetics and casual source material with a wide reach.

Doomguy would be my prediction for 5, though Leon/Jill, Dovahkiin, 2B, Master Chief, Travis Touchdown, and even Ezio could potentially fill that slot out nicely.

The big thing to remember is that Nintendo is trying to court different types of gamers, which makes for an exciting pass.
 
Last edited:

Vrbtm

Banned (6 Points)
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
259
Reminder that Doom Slayer is too violent for Smash.

Bayonetta's games containing extreme violence doesn't mean that violence is an important aspect of Bayonetta's character, whereas Doom Slayer/Doomguy is the human embodiment of bloody gory violence, which has no place in Smash.

Also, if this Direct has made anything clear for me, it's that we're definitely not going to get any first party paid DLC characters (Plant doesn't count, because he was a free bonus), effectively hard deconfirming anyone who is currently a Spirit, as far as I'm concerned. At first, I thought Spirits were merely soft disconfirmations, but it seems all the more obvious to me that they're going all in on the guest characters for the Fighter Pass.

I expect Dante and MAYBE Steve (not that I want either of them).
 
Last edited:

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,057
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
There is no "reminders". Doom Slayer is fine. We got Ridley, who is extremely violent in Smash. Violence as an issue was killed that day.

Plant still counts as Paid DLC. If he isn't free forever, he's a part of the paid DLC. We don't know if we'll get a First Party Fighter's Pass character. We may even get Echo DLC. Nothing really changed.

Going to be honest, these are some serious stretches here.
 

osby

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
13,556
Reminder that Doom Slayer is too violent for Smash.

Bayonetta's games containing extreme violence doesn't mean that violence is an important aspect of Bayonetta's character, whereas Doom Slayer/Doomguy is the human embodiment of bloody gory violence, which has no place in Smash.
*citation needed*

You can't keep saying "violent characters can't get into Smash!" without proof just because you feel like it.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
769
Just out of curiosity, with these two reveals, who do you hope the last two DLC characters are?

I'm hoping for Dante to be one of them, but I'm torn between Doomguy and Sans - both of them could be entertaining. We could use a second Namco-Bandai character, but with the possible exception of Agumon, I don't know if I'd be excited for one of them as I would be for those three.
Hopefully we get something that hasn't been done before. Like Doomguy, Crash, or Spyro. I am all for any character joining, but it makes it less exciting when that character has already joined some other fighter first. Like Dante in MvC3. Just wouldn't feel as great as a brand new idea, imo.

Rayman joining Brawlhalla soured his inclusion for me too. I don't want Smash getting the sloppy seconds..lol. Seemingly neither does Sakurai. So far we have not had a rehashed idea in Smash to my knowledge.

That is another reason I'm not surprised by the exclusion of characters like Amaterasu, Phoenix Wright, Heihachi, etc. They've all been done before. Contenders like Ryu and Ken, and even Cloud in Disiddia are the big name reps so they don't go against the grain being the obvious picks of their series'.
 
Last edited:

Vrbtm

Banned (6 Points)
Joined
Apr 12, 2016
Messages
259
There is no "reminders". Doom Slayer is fine. We got Ridley, who is extremely violent in Smash. Violence as an issue was killed that day.
I'm talking about taking a chainsaw to a demon's chest to physically split its body open as geysers of blood spray out.

Ridley doesn't do things like that (on-screen, at least).
Plant still counts as Paid DLC.
Not for the argument that I'm making.
Going to be honest, these are some serious stretches here.
Not really at all.

*citation needed*

You can't keep saying "violent characters can't get into Smash!" without proof just because you feel like it.
I just did. You could almost say it's what the thread is for.
 
Last edited:

Flyboy

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,745
Location
Dayton, OH
Reminder that Doom Slayer is too violent for Smash.

Bayonetta's games containing extreme violence doesn't mean that violence is an important aspect of Bayonetta's character, whereas Doom Slayer/Doomguy is the human embodiment of bloody gory violence, which has no place in Smash.
While modern Doomguy has the kill moves, Doom has always been about twitchy, fast paced gameplay with a large variety of weapons and slowly building yourself into an unstoppable force. Classic Doom had blood, yes, but again it was all about finding your way out of a labyrinth as fast as possible while mowing down anything in your way.

Considering Joker's final smash had the blood from the original turned into sparkles and none of his fans complained, I don't think a bloodless Doomguy is impossible.

Also, Smash is about celebrating gaming, especially impactful or influential ones. Sakurai considers John Romero a legendary game developer and Doom an intensely influential game. I'm not even a supporter of Doomguy, just a speculator, but I'll let Sakurai decide what "has a place in Smash".
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
131
I think I brought them up before but these leaks are currently hot in Japan.
These leaks got some things right but not that super big to make them credible enough yet imo. The first two are from the same person but the last one is not.

スマブラSPの製作現場見たリア友がいて、
DLCキャラまだ作ってないっていうのは嘘みたいだって。
よく聞いてないけどしずえさん予言してたから信憑性ある
その友が言うには鳥山明デザインのキャラと女性の格ゲーキャラ?らしい。
とりあえずどうでも良いからネプテューヌ来い
19:58 - 2018年12月14日
https://twitter.com/niconico_test_1/status/1073789370606354432?s=19

I have a friend irl saw the development of Smash Ultimate, and he said that they're not making DLC yet statement was a lie.
I wasn't listening to him well but he predicted Isabelle so he has credibility.
He said Akira Toriyama art style character(s) and a female fighting game character? are coming.
I don't really care about them just give me Neptune.
19:58 - 14th December 2018
そういえばスマブラリーク「brave」、
リークじゃない説が自分の中にあるよ。
リークじゃなく、本当のこと。
ニンテンドーと親しい友によるとドラクエ主人公と女性格ゲーキャラは
ほぼ確実に確定してる。
ニンテンドーと親しい人の話も聞いてないくせにリーク作るのはちょっとね…
いけない(何様だよ)
1:48 - 2019年4月22日
https://twitter.com/niconico_test_1/status/1120248092148686849?s=19

By the way, that Smash leak "brave", I have a theory that it's not actually a leak.
It's not a leak, it's the truth. (I think he is using the word leak as false rumor.)
My friend who's close to Nintendo is saying that Dragon Quest hero and a female fighting game character defenitely exist.
Without listening from someone close to Nintendo and making leaks is a little...
Not good (who do I think I am).
1:48 - 22nd April 2019
58 番組の途中ですがアフィサイトへの転載は禁止です (ドコグロ MM71-G+PC) sage 2019/04/27(土) 14:00:15.18 ID:bGOXrRH0M
狭い界隈だけど東方のZUNさんにあってお話したわ
PS4とSwitchに格ゲーの方移植とスマブラにゴニョゴニョ…みたいな話聞いちゃった
https://leia.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/poverty/1556340765/58

It's a small circle of communities that I'm in though but I met and talked with ZUN of Touhou.
And I heard stories like a fighting game port coming to PS4 and Switch and something Smash is mumble mumble...
14:00 - 27th April 2019
DQ Heroes and AoCF Switch port became true but the first could be just piggybacking and latter might be just a lucky guess.
Reimu is technically a fighting game character as well but I don't think it's the case though. But the third leak could be just talking something similar to the rumored Minecraft content treatment. Maybe spirits or Mii costumes.
 
Last edited:

osby

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
13,556
I just did. You could almost say it's what the thread is for.
This thread is for speculation, not for arbitrarily shutting down characters because of made-up rules.

None of Doomguy's weapons need gore or dismemberment in order to work in a fighting game. Also, looking how Bayonetta 'bleeds' rose petals and other fighters spurt sparkles in Joker's Final Smash, we at least know Smash can reference external bleeding indirectly.
 
Top