Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Door Key Pig]

But with Pac-Man though, he wasn't a character that needed DLC spirits, to which Joker got several, though I don't know if they need that quantity for each.

 

[Captain Shades]

But with Pac-Man though, he wasn't a character that needed DLC spirits, to which Joker got several, though I don't know if they need that quantity for each.

I was talking in comparison to FF not Dragon Quest as everyone was complaining about that....sorry...

 

[SimonferSmash]

I believe another reason some folks want someone else to be revealed is that they want the picks to be more broad and diverse in what genres are represented, since Joker already hails from a turn based JRPG.

 

[Knight Dude]

Hey if you could put in a first party DLC pick youd think make a great fit for the Fighter's Pass (and would fit in with development timeline of the fighters, so maybe not Pokémon/FE), who would you pick? What would bring new spirits and music and a new stage without feeling redundant?

Dixie, maybe with a Mine cart/carnival stage from DKC2 since it'll look pretty different from other DK levels while still being visually unique from other series' stages.

The music could be more from DKC2/DKC3 and Tropical Freeze. The only thing I got trouble thinking up is more Spirits.

If Spring Man wasn't and AT, I'd say add him, and the Spring Arena from ARMS, a simple stage with jump pads on the edge of the ring. Or the Ramen Bowl for it's unique shape.

And there's a good chunk of music to use in ARMS, with the rest of the cast being added for the spirits.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Except the DQ composer is very notoriously overprotective of his work.

To be fair, he is just stingy about his music getting remix.
In reality, DQ musics are not that special, you even hear them from random TV shows nothing to do with DQ or gaming in general.

 

[Robdelia]

Sugiyama has about as much control over his songs as Uematsu does IIRC. And I don't see Uematsu composing two versions of every song he makes and charging a ticket to his orchestra for the orchestral versions. This makes me doubt Nintendo wanting to work with Sugiyama on Smash DLC considering they advertise the music in each Challenger Pack now. This isn't even accounting for the complications that could happen in working with Toriyama and trying to secure the rights to his artwork for both the newcomer, the background characters in a hypothetical stage, and spirits.
If we even got a Dragon Quest rep I wouldn't be surprised if they had one thirty-second MIDI song that also doubles as the victory theme for the series.

 

[Potato_]

"Leakbait"... has there ever been a genuine example of this? Or is it baseless speculation that just means Erdrick is literally Incineroar 2?

With certain companies yeah. Square has been known to do it in the past, that's where the whole "List of 7" thing that many leakers were talking about came into play.

Could Erdrick be leakbait? Sure, but when literally everything else is pointing to his inclusion in the game I find it incredibly hard to believe.

I firmly believe that if it was a character more suited for the western audience you wouldn't see this insistence that they're leakbait. I think many people are just indifferent to Erdrick and are hanging on to any possibility that it might not be him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sugiyama has about as much control over his songs as Uematsu does IIRC. And I don't see Uematsu composing two versions of every song he makes and charging a ticket to his orchestra for the orchestral versions. This makes me doubt Nintendo wanting to work with Sugiyama on Smash DLC considering they advertise the music in each Challenger Pack now. This isn't even accounting for the complications that could happen in working with Toriyama and trying to secure the rights to his artwork for both the newcomer, the background characters in a hypothetical stage, and spirits.
If we even got a Dragon Quest rep I wouldn't be surprised if they had one thirty-second MIDI song that also doubles as the victory theme for the series.

We'd get at least two stage songs. Just as advertised. If they can't do that, we don't get a DQ character. They aren't going to false advertise. It's a literal case here. IMO, I think they'll just license two stage songs and the victory theme and leave it at that. Least amount of money spent for the product they want. They have a budget too. In fact, that budget could've been why we still have 2 Final Fantasy stage songs. It's too much to pay otherwise. Other companies, including Konami, obviously charged wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less.

 

[RileyXY1]

Could Erdrick be leakbait? Sure, but when literally everything else is pointing to his inclusion in the game I find it incredibly hard to believe.

Not really, considering that most of the leakers saying that he's in (such as Hitagi and Vergeben) have little to no credibility.

 

[Opossum]

Not really, considering that most of the leakers saying that he's in (such as Hitagi and Vergeben) have little to no credibility.

Vergeben's Smash claims, outside of Minecraft, have been spot on. Go by the source, not the leaker.

That and tansut is also backing Erdrick.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Vergeben's Smash claims, outside of Minecraft, have been spot on. Go by the source, not the leaker.

That and tansut is also backing Erdrick.

I mean about base game Smash, sure. Also, his assumed Square DLC character wasn't at Game Awards (was that his claim?)

Tansut was the Cloud DLC leaker, right?

 

[Opossum]

I mean about base game Smash, sure. Also, his assumed Square DLC character wasn't at Game Awards (was that his claim?)

Tansut was the Cloud DLC leaker, right?

To be fair, there's a lot of evidence showing Joker and Erdrick were worked on at the same time. Plus, the timing of the reveal is far easier to change than a full on character.

And yeah, he was the Cloud leaker. He definitely has a source at Square Enix.

 

[Door Key Pig]

To be fair, there's a lot of evidence showing Joker and Erdrick were worked on at the same time. Plus, the timing of the reveal is far easier to change than a full on character.

And yeah, he was the Cloud leaker. He definitely has a source at Square Enix.

Hmmmm, so Tansut happens to be the most credible Erdrick leaker?

 

[Opossum]

Hmmmm, so Tansut happens to be the most credible Erdrick leaker?

At the moment, yes. Erdrick is pretty much an open secret at this point though.

 

[Door Key Pig]

At the moment, yes. Erdrick is pretty much an open secret at this point though.

With leakers that definitively DIDN'T just take from Vergeben?

 

[Ridrool64]

At the very least, even if Erdrick magically turns out to be bait that every leaker fell for without question, there's still Slime, there's still the Luminary. The Dragon Quest army is still kicking.

Also, just because Erdrick would sell poorly individually in the west (he likely would: besides Hardcore Smash fans who need to complete the roster and the western DQ fanbase, I don't see many people buying him) doesn't matter: if the Pass was bought en masse by hardcore Smash fans, or even Persona fans, that's more than enough people they've effectively already sold him to, and the number cannot go DOWN from his reveal: only up. This is why I believed characters 2, 3, 4, and maybe 5 will all be characters less popular than Joker: Smash goes for FRONTloaded reveals, not BACKloaded. I still do believe at least characters 2 and 3 will be less popular than Joker. And lo and behold, Erdrick clearly fits that bill worldwide. Slime is also less popular than Joker, although oddly enough more people could probably figure out what it is and what it's from than Erdrick, who would be mistaken for a Dragon Ball character by anybody unfamiliar with Dragon Quest.

Plus, Erdrick being so mechanically similar to Robin at face value might be a boon, considering that it would mean Robin could serve as an easy base. Slime has pretty much nobody to work with, so it'd be a very intensive character that'd have to be made from scratch, unlike every newcomer in Smash Ultimate that's not an Echo, who has at least something vaguely resembling a base. Now, I wouldn't hold it against Slime in general, who I think has several other advantages over Erdrick, but this one might be the decisive one.

I believe there might be holes in Erdrick in particular, but at least, Dragon Quest is open secret tier. It's basically the last major Squeenix series standing, it's highly possible that Erdrick/Slime was forced in for DLC in exchange for not only having Cloud back, but base game, Slime is the most iconic thing from the series while Erdrick is from the most famous game. And even then, the Luminary as the "new game promotion" thing is still possible, possibly not even mutually exclusive with Erdrick (though mutually exclusive with Slime). However I'm less familiar with them compared to Erdrick and especially Slime.

 

[Opossum]

With leakers that definitively DIDN'T just take from Vergeben?

All I'll say is Vergeben was far from the first to hear about Dragon Quest in Smash.

 

[RileyXY1]

Vergeben has screwed his credibility since Ultimate's release.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Kinda makes me wonder what other less profitable options there'd be for fighters in the idea of people having bought the whole pass regardless. A Rhythm Paradise fighter I hope lol

 

[Opossum]

Vergeben has screwed his credibility since Ultimate's release.

His non-Smash leaks have always been hit or miss. What matters is that is Smash source is still legit. Base game vs DLC literally doesn't matter. That's not how it works.

 

[RileyXY1]

His non-Smash leaks have always been hit or miss. What matters is that is Smash source is still legit. Base game vs DLC literally doesn't matter. That's not how it works.

He was on the train that the first DLC character was from SE.

 

[Door Key Pig]

He was on the train that the first DLC character was from SE.

As well as Minecraft stuff that never came tbf

 

[RileyXY1]

As well as Minecraft stuff that never came tbf

Yeah. He's been saying that the game will have Minecraft content since June and so far we have not had any sort of Minecraft content at all.

 

[Opossum]

He was on the train that the first DLC character was from SE.

Did you miss all the evidence that Joker and Erdrick were being made simultaneously?

 

[Polan]

Vergeben has screwed his credibility since Ultimate's release.

vergeben was wrong before which means that he will never be right again. really good argument right there. totally won't backfire like it has in the past.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Did you miss all the evidence that Joker and Erdrick were being made simultaneously?

There's official stuff saying 3 characters were being worked on simultaneously since release, with evidence that "brave" is possibly Erdrick but potentially they could be Slime, Luminary, or whoever else instead.

 

[Will]

With leakers that definitively DIDN'T just take from Vergeben?

Are you implying everyone was taking from Gematsu in 2014 too?

 

[Izanagi97]

That's the point. We can't assume whether a leak is real or fake solely based on the leaker's track record.

Which is why people need to stop saying "x is a lock" just because a leaker said so

To be fair, there's a lot of evidence showing Joker and Erdrick were worked on at the same time. Plus, the timing of the reveal is far easier to change than a full on character.

And yeah, he was the Cloud leaker. He definitely has a source at Square Enix.

Didn't the Cloud leak happen like 2-3 hours before the presentation?

 

[Will]

Which is why people need to stop saying "x is a lock" just because a leaker said so

People said Shadow and Isaac were locks because they didn't show up as ATs yet, presumably.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Spring Man wasn't and AT, I'd say add him, and the Spring Arena from ARMS, a simple stage with jump pads on the edge of the ring. Or the Ramen Bowl for it's unique shape.

I feel like Sky Arena would be best since Spring Arena's springs would be way too close to the ledge. I was also going to say that Spring Arena is closed in on all sides, but you might be able to push the stands back for the purposes of gameplay.

People said Shadow and Isaac were locks because they didn't show up as ATs yet, presumably.

True, though I think Shadow was people jumping to conclusions while Isaac was just wishful thinking.

 

[Will]

True, though I think Shadow was people jumping to conclusions while Isaac was just wishful thinking.

Then there's chair man- i mean skull kid.

Loz rode that train all the way to his downfall and then dipped forever. Just shows how much ego can go to your head.

 

[Ethan Michael Crane]

Honestly, I'm just happy with Simon being in the game. He was my #1 want since Brawl. Anyone else is gravy to me.

But that said...I wouldn't turn up my nose at Erdrick. He has the right pedigree in a series that's been around as long as Castlevania, and it's not like DQ isn't big in Japan.

 

[Robdelia]

Ah yes, Vergeben is right. Please tell me why Nintendo rearranged an entire year of DLC to avoid revealing Erdrick at an event for western audiences like The Game Awards, only to reveal him at an even larger event for western audiences like E3. And how Sakurai's comments of "Nintendo wanted to reveal Joker earlier than I thought they would" means "yo to all my Erdrick fans out there, I'm sorry. My man Reggie broke through my front door and forced me at gunpoint to rearrange an entire release schedule just so Joker could be first."
The only thing Vergeben has gotten right on Ult's DLC is that there is DLC in the first place. Hell, I called that too. Do I get to be a fancy leaker too and have legions of internet fanboys defend me? I'm about as credible as Tansut now, and for my first leak I am going to confirm that Mr. Mosquito will be joining the roster in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate.

 

[Will]

Ah yes, Vergeben is right. Please tell me why Nintendo rearranged an entire year of DLC to avoid revealing Erdrick at an event for western audiences like The Game Awards, only to reveal him at an even larger event for western audiences like E3. And how Sakurai's comments of "Nintendo wanted to reveal Joker earlier than I thought they would" means "yo to all my Erdrick fans out there, I'm sorry. My man Reggie broke through my front door and forced me at gunpoint to rearrange an entire release schedule just so Joker could be first."
The only thing Vergeben has gotten right on Ult's DLC is that there is DLC in the first place. Hell, I called that too. Do I get to be a fancy leaker too and have legions of internet fanboys defend me? I'm about as credible as Tansut now, and for my first leak I am going to confirm that Mr. Mosquito will be joining the roster in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate.

Come on man, no Buck Bumble but you get Mr. Mosquito?

This Fighter's Pass sucks.

 

[Izanagi97]

Ah yes, Vergeben is right. Please tell me why Nintendo rearranged an entire year of DLC to avoid revealing Erdrick at an event for western audiences like The Game Awards, only to reveal him at an even larger event for western audiences like E3. And how Sakurai's comments of "Nintendo wanted to reveal Joker earlier than I thought they would" means "yo to all my Erdrick fans out there, I'm sorry. My man Reggie broke through my front door and forced me at gunpoint to rearrange an entire release schedule just so Joker could be first."
The only thing Vergeben has gotten right on Ult's DLC is that there is DLC in the first place. Hell, I called that too. Do I get to be a fancy leaker too and have legions of internet fanboys defend me? I'm about as credible as Tansut now, and for my first leak I am going to confirm that Mr. Mosquito will be joining the roster in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate.

All the more reason I don't like going on GameFAQs even if I can believe Nintendo would make stupid marketing decisions

 

[RouffWestie]

Please tell me why Nintendo rearranged an entire year of DLC to avoid revealing Erdrick at an event for western audiences like The Game Awards, only to reveal him at an even larger event for western audiences like E3.

Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to do exactly this, it just sounds like such a "Nintendo" thing to do. If Erdrick wasn't straight up confirmed before, he is now.

 

[Ethan Michael Crane]

Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to do exactly this, it just sounds like such a "Nintendo" thing to do. If Erdrick wasn't straight up confirmed before, he is now.

When exactly would this decision have to have been made, considering the animated trailer with full voice acting?

 

[Robdelia]

Come on man, no Buck Bumble but you get Mr. Mosquito?

This Fighter's Pass sucks.

My sources say that Buck Bumble was planned but fell apart due to complications in acquiring the rights to his signature theme. So instead Nintendo opted to take his moveset and give it to Banjo Kazooie as a backup.
Please look forward to it.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Hey if you could put in a first party DLC pick youd think make a great fit for the Fighter's Pass (and would fit in with development timeline of the fighters, so maybe not Pokémon/FE), who would you pick? What would bring new spirits and music and a new stage without feeling redundant?

Ninten, preferably with a moveset that deviates from the Ness/Lucas set of specials entirely.

His stage would (probably) be Queen Mary's Castle.

 

[RileyXY1]

Did you miss all the evidence that Joker and Erdrick were being made simultaneously?

Also, according to Vergeben, they originally planned to reveal Erdrick at the Game Awards only to replace him last minute with Joker.