Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Hadokeyblade]

All third-parties, right?

I mean... three houses was co developed by koei techmo.

 

[P.Kat]

I'm a little bit surprised at the high dislike ratio on Byleth's Presentation trailer.

People REALLY wanted Dante. Though I understand, linking the character reveal to the DMC news, on the same day would lead people to believe that Dante was coming.

I didn't think Dante would be revealed. I tried doing the same thing with a character I wanted... only to be disappointed as well.

Edit:

But byleth is in that empty spot where daisy was

I meant on the other side of Daisy where she has her hips out.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Color theory is like one of the dumbest things I ever heard. Imagine Nintendo choosing the characters: "Ok, we have red, lilac, green, yellow and we need orange. Suggestions anyone?"

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm a little bit surprised at the high dislike ratio on Byleth's Presentation trailer.

That’s simply because of the “there’s way to many fire emblem characters” so Mario series gets just as many

And I agree byleth is certainly more hype than corrin ever was

I bet Etika is screaming In hype wherever he is now (May he Rest In Peace)


Anyway why do people still think the color theory alive it’s dead byleth color banner is green the only orange there is the fire

 

[zeldasmash]

I just realized that 85-90% of Byleth's moveset can be given to Monster Hunter and it fits perfectly.

 

[N3ON]

The implication that in some way Fire Emblem doesn't deserve it's success is irritating to me. This series clawed its way back from near death and has been selling great for years now, how in the world does it not deserve it? sure there's pedigree to DK and Metroid, but none of them have seen as meteoric a rise as Fire Emblem has as a series.

On the other hand, why should Kirby and DK receive less than half of the representation Fire Emblem receives? Fire Emblem might've become more prominent as a series, but its "meteoric rise" only landed it in the same place Kirby and DK already resided. It doesn't exceed their prevalence or performance. Not by and large. Why should an increase in profile be worth double that of the profile it now matches? Because it managed to achieve that level? Well then being at that level is the reward.

Xenoblade had a similar flourish. Slightly less, but within the ballpark. Where are the spoils in excess of its stature? I mean, it only has one character.

It's not maligning FE's accomplishments when people bemoan yet another FE character. It's an indictment of the carte blanche attitude predicated simply on it achieving a level of success other series rarely stray from yet, despite that, lack a comparably favourable treatment. If Kirby and DK also had seven or eight characters, no one would give a ****, because they would all be equal, but it's a reminder that the attention is disproportionate to the station.

That said, people don't hate FE specifically. They simply don't like series punching above their weight; it's seen as unequal and unfair to other series which offer just as much, and have just as many fans. Before FE the ire was directed at Kid Icarus. Before that, Kirby and Star Fox. Before that, probably Zelda, but that was before my time. It's a consistent grievance (which often masquerades, unfortunately, as inarticulate potshots), it just varies based on roster, and intensifies based on the perceived level of inequality.

 

[TheCJBrine]

And here is my problem with your original argument, like it or not every franchise manages their characters differently in regards to prominence, playable appearances, roles and so on.

I said the closest to Impa due to their appearances since introduction but is also a faulty comparison, just as the comparison to Skull Kid to Rosalina due to Rosa being used way more.

This perception along with other factors like timing can make some characters like Skull Kid or Midna being passed on.

I like a lot of the Zelda characters and would love if some get in the game, but I can see why some are passed on. You're free to support them, but frankly faulty comparisons really don't help your argument.

I wasn’t trying to compare Skull Kid to Rosalina. I was trying to use Rosalina as an example of a character with few major roles in mainline games, but I guess Daisy is a better example.

I can see why Sakurai passes on some, too, due to timing and stuff (despite Sheik still being used after Brawl and Melee, even if she is Zelda), but I still really don’t get these other arguments people use against Zelda characters, and I don’t see anyone using these arguments against old FE characters.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I just realized that 85-90% of Byleth's moveset can be given to Monster Hunter and it fits perfectly.

Monster Hunter is not about the hunters, it is about the Monsters. Just like pokémon. I highly doubt we will get a hunter someday. But it is more likely than a playable human pokemon character though.

 

[P.Kat]

I just realized that 85-90% of Byleth's moveset can be given to Monster Hunter and it fits perfectly.

It also works for Ammy too. Not in the way I envisioned it but close enough

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Like I keep saying, every DLC character we've gotten so far was decided before Ultimate was even released.

The second pass didn't even exist yet, so how could Sakurai have said, "Let's not make X an AT/Spirit because we're adding them in the second pass." DLC Spirits are a little harder to predict because we don't know when the characters in the second pass were finalized, but seeing how virtually every new first-party game that has a realistic shot of getting a character already has Spirits, I think it's worth keeping them in the running for now.

But that would imply the following
1: Byleth already had a role in Smash when they didn't
2: That it's a fact that spirits will get promoted now despite how we don't know the other 6 characters

All third-parties, right?

People were saying they didn't think it would happen as they wouldn't be as exciting, seeing as how Byleth easily caused the most controversy out of any of the DLC characters, you aren't exactly proven wrong in that regard

 

[EricTheGamerman]

All third-parties, right?

I mean, if anything Byleth hurt first parties by pointing out that Nintendo could have super easily made playable fighters with ARMS, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Astral Chain characters, they just very actively chose not to.

Furthermore, I still think the nature of this future DLC being in Challenger Packs also similarly hurts a lot of first parties when you also consider that the more recent stuff fit far, far more naturally into that format than existing third parties who already have tons of Spirits and Music in the game aren't happening. Fire Emblem was more uniquely positioned since it's so radically different between games to fill a whole huge addition on its own. I'm not sure the people advocating for First Parties really took much of a huge victory here other than the mere existence of one in the pass.

Unrelated to you, It might just be time for people to consider that Sakurai and his team keep coming up with interesting movesets through FE characters and that's why we keep ending up with so many. The inspiration strikes them for FE fighters, whereas other franchises seem not to. A character is more than its function, but there's obviously a lot of value ascribed to a character's function and what they bring uniquely to the roster thus we end up with someone like Byleth now.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I can't help but think about the fact that we were this close to having the brawl taunts guy in smash, making things go full circle lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Soooo..... Any fans of orange animals around here?

Nah I like 'em green. Their lives aren't hard or anything but they sure ain't easy.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm a little bit surprised at the high dislike ratio on Byleth's Presentation trailer.

Its not so bad, like 1/3? Its kinda pointless the review bombing, in a month we'll see that most people would've moved on.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

But that would imply the following
1: Byleth already had a role in Smash when they didn't
2: That it's a fact that spirits will get promoted now despite how we don't know the other 6 characters

People were saying they didn't think it would happen as they wouldn't be as exciting, seeing as how Byleth easily caused the most controversy out of any of the DLC characters, you aren't exactly proven wrong in that regard

INB4 all the rage at Byleth convinces Nintendo to abandon first party DLC completely because it makes the "fans" too angry and they don't want it. Would be a sort of ultimate irony to this whole thing.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What really surprised me today is Sakurai ****ting on the fans. Not "What a monster, he included Byleth!" But rather "Lol you ****ers didn't leak ****, **** off from my twitter with your requests and Smash isn't a real fighting game"

 

[PhantomShab]

I just realized that 85-90% of Byleth's moveset can be given to Monster Hunter and it fits perfectly.

A Monster Hunter is one of the few 3rd parties characters left that I'd be really excited for.

 

[BlazGreen]

I must admit I'm kinda glad I didn't get the season pass. Banjo is the only character that really hyped me. Joker and Terry were a nice surprise but nothing more than that.

As for season 2, my guesses are...

- A Xenoblade rep (either Rex or Fiora)
- A Generation 8 Pokemon (currently guessing Toxtricity)
- Dixie Kong
- Crash Bandicoot
- Sora
- Master Chief

I'm guessing they'll alternate between first and third party characters this time.

 

[Rikarte]

Color theory is like one of the dumbest things I ever heard. Imagine Nintendo choosing the characters: "Ok, we have red, lilac, green, yellow and we need orange. Suggestions anyone?"

I was watching the presentation with my boyfriend and started yelling "COLOR THEORY BTFO'D" after they showed the full pass, haha.

Its not so bad, like 1/3? Its kinda pointless the review bombing, in a month we'll see that most people would've moved on.

We're living in a timeline where Smash got ratio'd harder than Pokemon.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm a little bit surprised at the high dislike ratio on Byleth's Presentation trailer.

It must be the work of an earth spirit.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

What really surprised me today is Sakurai ****ting on the fans. Not "What a monster, he included Byleth!" But rather "Lol you ****ers didn't leak ****, **** off from my twitter with your requests and Smash isn't a real fighting game"

Yeah this direct was ducking incredible because Sakurai metaphorically gave the middle finger to everyone watching.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

INB4 all the rage at Byleth convinces Nintendo to abandon first party DLC completely because it makes the "fans" too angry and they don't want it. Would be a sort of ultimate irony to this whole thing.

Especially considering the rest of the DLC. "WHERE ARE THE FIRST PARTIES IN THE DLC!"
Here's Piranha Plant
"DOESN'T COUNT THAT'S A JOKE CHARACTER"
Fair enough, here's Banjo
"I SAID FIRST PARTY NOT THIRD"
Fine. Have your first party
"ANOTHER FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTER? UGHHHH YOU DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THE TRUE NINTENDO FANS"

 

[Goombaic]

A Pokemon is coming. Whether it is Toxtricity, a starter, the dogs, Urshifu, etc, I doubt we've seen the last of SwSh content in Ultimate, it doesn't even have enough Spirits to fill a page on the Spirit Board.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it really an immature thing to be disappointed in the reveal/not care about Three Houses? I feel like it's a stereotype that this community has been peddling.

From where I stand, I'm gonna be too busy playing Byleth to care about peoples opinions about him.

I will say that arguing why a character shouldn't have been done leads to uninteresting and cyclical discussion. It's just a given. People like to talk more about what they like over what someone hates.

Though I do agree focusing on the salt mines is kind of a drawn out joke at this point.

 

[Will]

But rather "Lol you ****ers didn't leak ****, **** off from my twitter with your requests and Smash isn't a real fighting game"

Eh, it's about time. They get too much flack from hordes of fanboys from Twitter every minute of every day.

Seeing Sabi and Verge ****ing dissolve into a heap of nothingness is a good end for them.

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean, if anything Byleth hurt first parties by pointing out that Nintendo could have super easily made playable fighters with ARMS, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Astral Chain characters, they just very actively chose not to.

Furthermore, I still think the nature of this future DLC being in Challenger Packs also similarly hurts a lot of first parties when you also consider that the more recent stuff fit far, far more naturally into that format than existing third parties who already have tons of Spirits and Music in the game aren't happening. Fire Emblem was more uniquely positioned since it's so radically different between games to fill a whole huge addition on its own. I'm not sure the people advocating for First Parties really took much of a huge victory here other than the mere existence of one in the pass.

Unrelated to you, It might just be time for people to consider that Sakurai and his team keep coming up with interesting movesets through FE characters and that's why we keep ending up with so many. The inspiration strikes them for FE fighters, whereas other franchises seem not to. A character is more than its function, but there's obviously a lot of value ascribed to a character's function and what they bring uniquely to the roster thus we end up with someone like Byleth now.

There was a point in time when people didn't think we'd get a single Nintendo character. That was basically this entire thread when Astral Chain got Spirits.

I fail to see how one Nintendo character is worse than none.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I was watching the presentation with my boyfriend and started yelling "COLOR THEORY BTFO'D" after they showed the full pass, haha.

We're living in a timeline where Smash got ratio'd harder than Pokemon.

Ironically enough Smash got ratio'd because of a game that got more awards than Smash

Yeah this direct was ducking incredible because Sakurai gave the middle finger to everyone watching.

What do you mean metaphorically? Check his fingers when he counts the Fire Emblem games again

 

[Ivander]

I just realized that 85-90% of Byleth's moveset can be given to Monster Hunter and it fits perfectly.

I'd say 50%. For one, there is the whip sword and two, while Monster Hunters do have Lances, they do not wield them the same way as Byleth and Dimitri do. Byleth uses his Spear more like a Glaive/Partisan/etc, while Monster Hunter actually uses Lances as an actual Lance, with all poke and very little swinging. Meanwhile, you do have Bows and Greatsword for the Bow & Axe parts.

 

[Will]

I deadass saw an instagram post where this dude filed a full ****ing Better Business Bureau complaint against Nintendo because "they didn't put something people actually want".

How petty do you have to be?

 

[Nemuresu]

Nintendo stated months ago that the Fighters Pass sold like hot cakes. Unless you're afraid of some angry mob taking extreme measures (not that I expect or wish for that to happen), there's no point discussing bad reception or trying to look superior to others by showing how much they hurt you by not wanting a character in a video game.

 

[I.D.]

I mean, if anything Byleth hurt first parties by pointing out that Nintendo could have super easily made playable fighters with ARMS, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Astral Chain characters, they just very actively chose not to.

The only thing Byleth proves is that Sakurai's preference for Fire Emblem is so strong he manages to sneak a Fire Emblem character on a season pass explicitly advertised as full of characters "you wouldn't anticipate in Smash" and with the purported objective of attracting new audiences.

 

[UberPyro64]

Predicting the final six will be Ryu Hayabusa, Doom Slayer, Geno, Crash Bandicoot, Dante, and Sora.

Could get a Nintendo character in there, but idk. I wonder how right or wrong my prediction will be.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Guys I've noticed a pattern.

You've seen Colour theory and Pic of the day theory.

Spoiler: Joker steals Banjo & Kazooie's invitation

Spoiler: Kazooie steals Byleth's invitation

It's time for Fan art theory!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I deadass saw an instagram post where this dude filed a full ****ing Better Business Bureau complaint against Nintendo because "they didn't put something people actually want".

How petty do you have to be?

Bruh did you not see how people made a petition to Donald Trump to stop Game Freak from releasing Sword and Shield for the glory of Americans?

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Well, in midst of all the salt, I'm happy we got a female character for DLC at long last. Plus, Three Houses is such a great game, so I'm happy to see it get this much love in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I deadass saw an instagram post where this dude filed a full ****ing Better Business Bureau complaint against Nintendo because "they didn't put something people actually want".

How petty do you have to be?

Welp...At least they'll make some poor office worker's day just a bit brighter.

Guys I've noticed a pattern.

You've seen Colour theory and Pic of the day theory.

Spoiler: Joker steals Banjo & Kazooie's invitation

View attachment 258096

Spoiler: Kazooie steals Byleth's invitation

View attachment 258097

It's time for Fan art theory!

I want a chain of this where each new fighter steals their invitation from their successor.

 

[Deleted member]

Bruh did you not see how people made a petition to Donald Trump to stop Game Freak from releasing Sword and Shield for the glory of Americans?

He hasn't even finished the first wall. What makes us think we can keep Pokemon out?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

From where I stand, I'm gonna be too busy playing Byleth to care about peoples opinions about him.

I will say that arguing why a character shouldn't have been done leads to uninteresting and cyclical discussion. It's just a given. People like to talk more about what they like over what someone hates.

Though I do agree focusing on the salt mines is kind of a drawn out joke at this point.

I know, I just feel like people who like characters like Rayman, Banjo, Crash, etc are considered "lesser", closed minded, and bigoted around here while the Persona, Modern FE, Platinum, etc fans are considered "mature", worldy, and infallible. Especially since a lot of the well respected members around here tend to fall into the latter catagory.

And I agree, laughing at the salt mines or posting "Hoes Mad" is not something that anyone should be doing.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The only thing Byleth proves is that Sakurai's preference for Fire Emblem is so strong he manages to sneak a Fire Emblem character on a season pass explicitly advertised as full of characters "you wouldn't anticipate in Smash" and with the purported objective of attracting new audiences.

This entire season pass was just Sakurai going mad with power with the exception of Banjo. All of it is clearly his own tastes and I love it lol

 

[Schnee117]

purported objective of attracting new audiences.

They already failed that with Banjo anyway.