Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I also believe it's important that not every character be so gimmicky. Gimmicks are fun but they can become fatiguing if every newcommer had something that centralizes it's moveset/playstyle.

Banjo didnt have a specific gimmick like Hero or Joker and then people complained he was low tier

 

[Kokiden]

I'd much rather have new blood in the series than a character from a franchise already represented in the game. Despite not knowing much about Dragon Quest or Banjo & Kazooie their inclusions intrigued me a lot.

Fully agree. Give franchises that have not been in Smash yet a chance.

They’ve done a good job of that for the pass so far and I think #5 will uphold that.

 

[N3ON]

A couple of people have pointed out that they usually announce the Spirit Events on Tuesdays, and this one is on Monday, so that might mean...

Nah, intern-kun is just going to be out of town tomorrow and wants to get this **** over with early lol.

Intern-kun and I would be good nakama.

Astral Chain director Takahisa Taura is happy that Astral Chain made it in some shape or form. Understandably, he's bummed they aren't playable, but he is still happy that the game got some form of representation.

スマブラのスピリッツにアストラルチェインが登場！！これはゲットせねば……！！#ASTRALCHAIN https://t.co/JgVI8R7fqI

— 田浦 貴久 / Takahisa Taura (@PG_taura) January 14, 2020

As usual, the people most closely related to the characters often have the most mature takes.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

So far, almost all of the Spirit Board events have been for very recent games like Daemon X Machina, Astral Chain, and Pokemon Sword & Shield, right? If Fire Emblem: Three Houses also gets Spirit Board-ed... well, I won't say it rules out first party characters entirely, since "older" characters like Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee, and a Rhythm Heaven character would still be on the table... but I won't be getting my hopes up for characters from any games released in 2019.

Also, the Resident Evil event has me super worried right now, because it also means that any popular third party series, including ones with a character that's heavily-requested for Smash, could easily be shot down faster than you can say "GAME".

 

[DanganZilla5]

A couple of people have pointed out that they usually announce the Spirit Events on Tuesdays, and this one is on Monday, so that might mean...

it would line up well with the rumored 16th date.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

We all know that was a throwaway comment for people who didn't recognize Sakurai's childhood character. It's not like characters like Andy (Advance Wars), Ray Mk III, or Isaac are incapable of bringing new movesets and fun mechanics to the table.

I don't think Sakurai throws away any words on recorded material, but to each their own I guess.

First party characters could bring new movesets and mechanics, but compared to already existing characters on the Roster there's certainly less room to work with.

• Andy would likely be focused on unit and resource management, which is similar to Robin's durability or Banjo's wonderwing.
• As someone who has played Custom Robo multiple times, Ray Mk III would likely play as a projectile zoner using guns, pods, and bombs, something already done by characters like Link, Snake, and the Belmonts with their own projectiles. Something could be done with changing parts, but how would that be accomplished in battle when it's done outside in the games?
• Isaac would likely revolve around Psynergy, which is similar to Robin and Hero's spells, and summoning the Djinn, which give stat differences similar to Shulk & Hero and perform attacks similar to Hero.

Of course there's the likelihood that:

• (a) Sakurai and co. could think outside of the box and provide movesets apart from what I've suggested, and
• (b) The likelihood that I've built a strawman argument

but I believe given the gameplay of these series these would be the most faithful adaptations, and they certainly leave something to be desired. While recognizability/relevance aren't as important, they should be considered as well. The fact of the matter is that most remaining Nintendo characters and franchises simply lack these factors.

We're long past the point where "is a Nintendo character" is a strong criterion for inclusion. If Astral Chain, one of Nintendo's largest new series, with characters oozing moveset potential, can't cut it, then what makes you think Nintendo's B and C-listers have a serious shot?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah there's a sizeable audience for these franchises and if they were to get a revival on the Switch/Mobile, I don't see why they wouldn't be included as DLC.

World of Light, but it's a gatcha game. I wouldn't play it, but if you wanted to shed some light on dead franchises that'd be a way to do it.

Intern-kun and I would be good nakama.

Editors note: nakama means friend.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

it would line up well with the rumored 16th date.

View attachment 257195

The Howard twins sacrificed themselves to ensure Fighter 5 would be revealed this week.

Hopefully their sacrifice will not be in vain.

 

[Deleted member]

So far, almost all of the Spirit Board events have been for very recent games like Daemon X Machina, Astral Chain, and Pokemon Sword & Shield, right? If Fire Emblem: Three Houses also gets Spirit Board-ed... well, I won't say it rules out first party characters entirely, since "older" characters like Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee, and a Rhythm Heaven character would still be on the table... but I won't be getting my hopes up for characters from any games released in 2019.

Also, the Resident Evil event has me super worried right now, because it also means that any popular third party series, including ones with a character that's heavily-requested for Smash, could easily be shot down faster than you can say "GAME".

Didn't they all get Spirit events relatively close to their release date? I feel like the ship has sailed for Three Houses unless some kind of expansion story or something were released.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sakurai and co. could think outside of the box and provide movesets apart from what I've suggested,

To be fair, we had people who thought Hero would just be another Marth, Banjo another Duck Hunt, and Terry another Ryu.

 

[Ura]

World of Light, but it's a gatcha game. I wouldn't play it, but if you wanted to shed some light on dead franchises that'd be a way to do it.


Editors note: nakama means friend.

I was speaking more about dead franchises being revived giving them the chance for DLC lol. It makes sense and is what i'm kinda hoping for.

WoL Gatcha sounds fun tho no lie.

 

[Deleted member]

So far, almost all of the Spirit Board events have been for very recent games like Daemon X Machina, Astral Chain, and Pokemon Sword & Shield, right? If Fire Emblem: Three Houses also gets Spirit Board-ed... well, I won't say it rules out first party characters entirely, since "older" characters like Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee, and a Rhythm Heaven character would still be on the table... but I won't be getting my hopes up for characters from any games released in 2019.

Also, the Resident Evil event has me super worried right now, because it also means that any popular third party series, including ones with a character that's heavily-requested for Smash, could easily be shot down faster than you can say "GAME".

Issue with older characters is the content that exists already in the game. Spirits wise a lot of the series already in the game are relatively well represented already and they have iconic tracks and stages as well in the game. While they could always bring new stuff from these areas, it just seems that the DLC seems focused on bringing new content overall.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, we had people who thought Hero would just be another Marth, Banjo another Duck Hunt, and Terry another Ryu.

Those guys were all immediately bat down and proven to not know anything about the original source material, though. They were a minority; it could have been argued that Hero might have resembled Robin a lot, but anybody who even had passing knowledge of DQ knew Hero wouldn't be like the FE sword characters. The same could be said of Banjo; his game is nothing like Duckhunt dog's. And again, same with Terry. Different game, different movesets, different possibilities.

The people who cried about them 'just being another X' knew nothing of the original games and really didn't actually amount to that many people.

 

[PSIGuy]

"Being fun is more important than being recognizable" doesn't mean being recognizable is irrelevant. That was never the intent of the statement.

I think a better way of putting it is "Even if they're the most popular character in the world, if they're not fun and unique to play they're not getting in".

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So far, almost all of the Spirit Board events have been for very recent games like Daemon X Machina, Astral Chain, and Pokemon Sword & Shield, right? If Fire Emblem: Three Houses also gets Spirit Board-ed... well, I won't say it rules out first party characters entirely, since "older" characters like Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee, and a Rhythm Heaven character would still be on the table... but I won't be getting my hopes up for characters from any games released in 2019.

Also, the Resident Evil event has me super worried right now, because it also means that any popular third party series, including ones with a character that's heavily-requested for Smash, could easily be shot down faster than you can say "GAME".

Really? *inhales* Ga-

"Okami spirits enter the spirit board as the sun rises!"

*The Sound of Silence plays in the background.*

As someone who has played Custom Robo multiple times, Ray Mk III would likely play as a projectile zoner using guns, pods, and bombs, something already done by characters like Link, Snake, and the Belmonts with their own projectiles. Something could be done with changing parts, but how would that be accomplished in battle when it's done outside in the games?

Its Down Special changes your other special moves into random other special moves.

EDIT: More seriously, you could have Custom Robo replace the Miis as custom characters should they not appear in the next console.

 

[Nemuresu]

For the matter being, I just want to list 15 third-party characters (essentially three DLC seasons) with the same traits as the Pass characters (completely new to Smash, no previous presence at all) just to show that the trend can keep going for longer:

1.- Sora
2.- Doom Marine
3.- Dante
4.- Professor Layton
5.- 2B
6.- Steve
7.- Lloyd Irving
8.- Phoenix Wright
9.- Ezio Auditore da Firenze
10.- KOS-MOS
11.- Arle Nadja
12.- Sol Badguy
13.- Jibanyan
14.- Master Chief
15.- Ryu Hayabusa

Many of them are already well-known names in gaming culture, and if Terry is any indicator, Sakurai can also work out with characters that aren't popular in the speculation scene and still get a positive reception.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Didn't they all get Spirit events relatively close to their release date? I feel like the ship has sailed for Three Houses unless some kind of expansion story or something were released.

• Daemon X Machina event was about a week or two after the game's release, I think.
• Assuming the Tetris event was specifically meant as a tie-in for Tetris 99... that one was several months after the game's release.
• Pokemon Sword & Shield event was also a week after release.
• Assuming the Resident Evil event was meant as a tie-in for RE2make, that one's also several months after release.
• And now the Astral Chain event, which is also coming months after the game's release.

So basically, it looks like a Three Houses event isn't off the table yet.

 

[Deleted member]

3h smash discussion

dimitri nair

dimitri nair

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The best thing about third parties is that it gives a shout out to series that not everyone may be familiar with, but are still very important/relevant in the history of games.

Obviously most of us play a ton of Nintendo games, and it's only natural to want characters who you know/played as; but there are still so many important series out there that should be in. even if we're not familiar with them. Smash is a great way to learn about series that are outside the Nintendo "bubble".

I'm willing to bet a good chunk of people (not necessarily here) had their first real experience with series like Persona, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie through Smash, some of those people probably went to play the games in that series, and some of those people probably fell in love with that series.

I didn't talk about Fatal Fury because I think it deserves a special mention. As someone who goes on pretty much every big forum/board there, I really think Terry is special in how much he pushed the envelope for who could get in Smash. Since 2018 till the SNK leak, I had seen around 5 serious posts of people saying that Terry should be in Smash (one of them also mentioned Adol, which led me to make my Adol/Falcom post a week ago on page 1831).

I think Terry is a perfect example of what makes Sakurai so special, he obviously enjoys adding fan-favorites like Banjo, however, he also sees the importance of making Smash a history museum of fan-picks, first party characters, major 3rd parties, and lesser (but still influential) 3rd parties. Most people would probably just pick what the most "popular" characters are.

True statement here.

I'll admit, I'm actually unfamiliar with most of the characters in Smash as it is, both first and third parties. Just because I don't know a character directly doesn't mean I won't like them - Ike's one of my favorites, and I've never played a Fire Emblem game. But I will admit that it does make it harder to care about characters you're unfamiliar with as well, especially if the character is from a genre/artstyle you don't really like in the first place or doesn't have a stage/music you find appealing.

I remember back in the Brawl days, I was very against third parties in Smash, with the exception of Sonic considering they had so much history together. Even in the early Sm4sh days, I was still pretty hardline on that. And then we got the DLC.

Now, my #1 most wanted of all time is a third-party, and kinda in the same boat as Terry - really not talked about at all, despite having a huge legacy on its own...just not in terms of the Smash fanbase.

Kinda brings up an interesting game to see how well-versed you are in the characters of Smash. List out all of the characters, and just identify whether you've played one of their main-series games, 'played' here meaning more than a few minute demo. Or do you really only know them from spin-offs? Or is Smash the only place you've ever experienced them? And this is just for fun, not a way to say "I've experienced everyone so I'm better than you," or "You haven't seen them at all, your opinions are trash."

Spoiler: Mine

Have played a main-series game from them:

Have only played spin-offs with them:

Do not know them outside Smash:

I know that I've always been one to stick with what I know most of all, so I expected I'd have a pretty low rate of experiencing the characters first-hand. Still, there are some characters I've never played outside of Smash that I like and some I don't.
I just really need this rollercoaster to end...

 

[Izanagi97]

I honestly still hold the belief that spirits don't deconfirm, at least in regards to post pass characters or bonus characters

 

[SneakyLink]

• Daemon X Machina event was about a week or two after the game's release, I think.
• Assuming the Tetris event was specifically meant as a tie-in for Tetris 99... that one was several months after the game's release.
• Pokemon Sword & Shield event was also a week after release.
• Assuming the Resident Evil event was meant as a tie-in for RE2make, that one's also several months after release.
• And now the Astral Chain event, which is also coming months after the game's release.

So basically, it looks like a Three Houses event isn't off the table yet.

And that's not counting Super Mario Party (two months after release), Labo (A year after release but weeks after the VR Kit), NSMBU (Four Months after release), and LOZ:LA (Three months before release).
Point being who knows what the next spirit event will kill off...

 

[Cosmic77]

Sorry for Astral Chain fans.

On the bright side, if TH gets a Spirit Board too, I feel like more people would be willing to consider Spirits not deconfirming characters, so we could discuss SwSh and AC again.

 

[Aerospherology]

and LOZ:LA (Three months before release).
Point being who knows what the next spirit event will kill off...

Mystery Dungeon spirit event here we go

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

To be fair, we had people who thought Hero would just be another Marth, Banjo another Duck Hunt, and Terry another Ryu.

I don't really understand this. Especially the Banjo claim. Literally no one said that about Banjo as far as I know.

Hero's potential for spells was well established as early as pre-datamine, and any Fighting game fan could tell you how King of Fighters is different from Street Fighter. The adaptations of gameplay to movesets have been rather straightforward with the exception of Joker, who moveset makes more sense thematically.

If the claim is that fans aren't good at coming up with movesets I'd agree, but Nintendo characters typically have straightforward adaptations for their movesets, with the exception of more out there characters like Corrin. Most character archetypes, especially for Nintendo characters, have already been used at this point too.

Its Down Special changes your other special moves into random other special moves.
EDIT: More seriously, you could have Custom Robo replace the Miis as custom characters should they not appear in the next console.

That's pretty neat, but also pretty similar to Hero's RNG down-special.

I love the idea of Custom Robo replacing Miis as a custom character (it's in the name), as unlikely as it is though.

I hope y'all understand that I'm not arguing from a place of disliking Nintendo characters or having a boner for third parties. I just think given the evidence presented we ought to not expect a lot of Nintendo characters, if any, as DLC.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Switch Online Users In Japan Will Soon Be Able To Play Fire Emblem Warriors For Free https://t.co/6sO7kasQnd #NintendoSwitch #Nintendo #FireEmblem #NintendoSwitchOnline #Japan pic.twitter.com/GH6NqCfJn7

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) January 14, 2020

I hope that this prompts Nintendo into doing the monthly free games thing the PSN+ does.

 

[Deleted member]

what makes you think Nintendo's B and C-listers have a serious shot?

To put it bluntly, I don't believe they have a shot and that's not my point. My point was that it was disappointing they don't have a shot, but it is not for any reason because of moveset.

Also gonna talk down on your point of faithful adaptations when Sakurai turned personas into a glorified super guage and Hero into an RNG fiesta. Sakurai can take liberties if the moveset wont flesh out well. All you've done is base level moveset crafting, and then somehow thought this lack of creative effort should be used to discount these characters originality.

These arguments remind me how some people thought Erdrick would be a mix of Link and Robin. Low and behold, he kind of is but with a specific special move that changes how you look at him. I don't see how Sakurai can't just add a made-up gimmick to these characters.

Dude, it's marketing. It has nothing to do with the characters themselves, but rather their dead series not being worth the advertising.

 

[Guynamednelson]

and any Fighting game fan could tell you how King of Fighters is different from Street Fighter

Fighting game fans should also know that DLC seasons aren't consistent in their content. SFV wasn't all veterans just because of season 1, and Tekken 7 seasons went from two guest stars to one to OC newcomers instead.

 

[Opossum]

Seeing as I don't think spirit promotions are happening, even post-Pass, to me this pretty much just leaves us with Three Houses to pull a first party DLC character from. I think Ring Fit came out too late to be considered.

I mean I guess there's Gooigi too but the fact that Luigi's entire grab game is based on Luigi's Mansion 3 now makes that seem even less likely.

 

[BZL8]

New Sakurai PotD.

pic.twitter.com/OwMIijPGvr

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 14, 2020

 

[Opossum]

Sorry for Astral Chain fans.

On the bright side, if TH gets a Spirit Board too, I feel like more people would be willing to consider Spirits not deconfirming characters, so we could discuss SwSh and AC again.

On the contrary, I think the more logical assumption, should that happen, is instead that the DLC is going to be all third parties. That makes much more sense than promotions suddenly being made more likely.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sorry for Astral Chain fans.

On the bright side, if TH gets a Spirit Board too, I feel like more people would be willing to consider Spirits not deconfirming characters, so we could discuss SwSh and AC again.

I don't think that'll be the result. Even if most people accept that Spirits don't disconfirm fighters (like me), there's not really an argument as to why they would make DLC spirits if you were going to make them a character anyway. Especially since characters come with spirits.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry for Astral Chain fans.

On the bright side, if TH gets a Spirit Board too, I feel like more people would be willing to consider Spirits not deconfirming characters, so we could discuss SwSh and AC again.

I would think only way for people to consider any of these franchises again would be if any gets an upgrade. As even with FE 3H as spirits, they won't guarantee that any would be upgraded.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

True statement here.

I'll admit, I'm actually unfamiliar with most of the characters in Smash as it is, both first and third parties. Just because I don't know a character directly doesn't mean I won't like them - Ike's one of my favorites, and I've never played a Fire Emblem game. But I will admit that it does make it harder to care about characters you're unfamiliar with as well, especially if the character is from a genre/artstyle you don't really like in the first place or doesn't have a stage/music you find appealing.

I remember back in the Brawl days, I was very against third parties in Smash, with the exception of Sonic considering they had so much history together. Even in the early Sm4sh days, I was still pretty hardline on that. And then we got the DLC.

Now, my #1 most wanted of all time is a third-party, and kinda in the same boat as Terry - really not talked about at all, despite having a huge legacy on its own...just not in terms of the Smash fanbase.

Kinda brings up an interesting game to see how well-versed you are in the characters of Smash. List out all of the characters, and just identify whether you've played one of their main-series games, 'played' here meaning more than a few minute demo. Or do you really only know them from spin-offs? Or is Smash the only place you've ever experienced them? And this is just for fun, not a way to say "I've experienced everyone so I'm better than you," or "You haven't seen them at all, your opinions are trash."

Spoiler: Mine

Have played a main-series game from them:

Have only played spin-offs with them:

Do not know them outside Smash:

I know that I've always been one to stick with what I know most of all, so I expected I'd have a pretty low rate of experiencing the characters first-hand. Still, there are some characters I've never played outside of Smash that I like and some I don't.
I just really need this rollercoaster to end...

I'm only going to put the main character of each franchise to make my message shorter
Have played at least one game of their franchise and finished one (in the case of Wii fit, there's no ending but I played a lot of it):


Have tried one of their game (or more), but for a pretty short period of time, never actually finished those game:


Never play anything in their franchise:

 

[KillerCage]

What happened?
Did Astral Chain get a spirit event?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What happened?
Did Astral Chain get a spirit event?

Yesh.

 

[SneakyLink]

What happened?
Did Astral Chain get a spirit event?

Happening this upcoming weekend!

 

[AceAttorney9000]

What happened?
Did Astral Chain get a spirit event?

Yup, which means Officer Howard is officially out of the running for DLC.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

To put it bluntly, I don't believe they have a shot and that's not my point. My point was that it was disappointing they don't have a shot, but it is not for any reason because of moveset.

Also gonna talk down on your point of faithful adaptations when Sakurai turned personas into a glorified super guage and Hero into an RNG fiesta. Sakurai can take liberties if the moveset wont flesh out well. All you've done is base level moveset crafting, and then somehow thought this lack of creative effort should be used to discount these characters originality.

These arguments remind me how some people thought Erdrick would be a mix of Link and Robin. Low and behold, he kind of is but with a specific special move that changes how you look at him. I don't see how Sakurai can't just add a made-up gimmick to these characters.

Dude, it's marketing. It has nothing to do with the characters themselves, but rather their dead series not being worth the advertising.

So then it's an argument of semantics?

I did say it's likely that my argument was a strawman, so I'll acknowledge that it's flawed. Regardless, I feel like there's more potential for third parties given that they can cover genres, niches within genres, and archetypes that Nintendo hasn't tried in their games. Maybe it's just me.

Sorry for Astral Chain fans.

On the bright side, if TH gets a Spirit Board too, I feel like more people would be willing to consider Spirits not deconfirming characters, so we could discuss SwSh and AC again.

Yes, because when planning DLC (let's be real post-pass DLC is already planned out at this point) Nintendo thought to themselves "let's include Spirits of the characters we plan on including at DLC later on instead of just including them with the character."

That'd be such a smart and pragmatic business move.

 

[Cosmic77]

On the contrary, I think the more logical assumption, should that happen, is instead that the DLC is going to be all third parties. That makes much more sense than promotions suddenly being made more likely.

Just depends on who the first character is. If the first character is first-party, regardless of whether or not it's an upgrade, then I think people would reconsider.

We don't have any details on Fighter #6 onward, so for now, I'm keeping myself open to all possibilities, both good and bad.

 

[Arcanir]

Tbf you cannot 'get over' PTSD so Samus breaking down then and there makes sense from a medical standpoint, it's just that Sakamoto couldn't even keep the story in line with the manga he wrote and used for the story

The fact that you had to read the manga (which has never been officially translated) to get the PTSD is what really killed it. It did nothing to explain why she was freaking out or why Ridley was suddenly scaring her like that when just a game before she seemed completely fine. If it was better explained it probably would've went over better, but the writing of Other M is infamous for a reason and the handling of the entire scene is a part of that.

Edit: Ugh, computer posted this far earlier then I wanted.