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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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IsmaR

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He claimed a top-down/2D Zelda game would be available on the eShop which later got shown off as Cadence of Hyrule.

Doesn't excuse him not knowing about Link's Awakening, but it doesn't condemn him anymore than any of the previous stuff has.

Nothing new/more of the same, in other words.
 

RileyXY1

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He claimed a top-down/2D Zelda game would be available on the eShop which later got shown off as Cadence of Hyrule.

Doesn't excuse him not knowing about Link's Awakening, but it doesn't condemn him anymore than any of the previous stuff has.

Nothing new/more of the same, in other words.
It's not that he didn't know about Link's Awakening, he outright said that there would be nothing relating to it shown off in the February Direct.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It's not that he didn't know about Link's Awakening, he outright said that there would be nothing relating to it shown off in the February Direct.
To also note, he actually thought a LA remake could be coming at one point. He got convinced by a bad informant otherwise. He also said, for his final statement, it wouldn't be related to LA(not that it couldn't be a Zelda remake, just not that one).

Verge simply believed the wrong person. This does happen. Also, according to PolarPanda, Star Fox Grand Prix was leakbait, so I wouldn't hold that one against anybody. LA factor, yes. SFGP, no.
 

IsmaR

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He said it wouldn't be a Link's Awakening remake because he thought the Zelda reveal in the February would be Cadence of Hyrule.

Given the importance of Nintendo allowing an indie developer the use of a series like Zelda, it's not that hard to see them making it a big announcement rather than saving it for a Nindies Direct. All of it is feasible to get mixed up/misunderstand.

Vergeben's style of "throw literally everything at the wall and see what sticks" backfires as frequently as it does because things change, and obviously he shouldn't be making assumptions without any actual evidence backing anything up (or his sources, I should say). Clearly if something's been in the works for as long as Crypt of the NecroDancer has been, you'd expect them to reveal it sooner than later. But we don't know what happens behind the scenes/what's deemed "important" enough to announce now vs show later (see the announcements vs progress updates for games like Metroid Prime 4 and Bayonetta 3).

SFGP could very well be leakbait, or it could be in development hell. Either way, no one would actually know if it never ends up coming out (or even get announced).

Regardless none of it really matters (even as "proving credentials" or anything giving previous rumors any ground to stand on), we'll know soon enough. I just don't like when we instantly side with "team real/fake" because of things like history with past leaks, or "insert leak has stuff I don't like therefore I have to prove it's fake."
 

random rendum

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Not only that, he completely botched the February direct. A Pikmin 3 port and Star Fox: Grand Prix were not announced, and he claimed that the new Zelda game would have nothing to do with Link's Awakening, which was confirmed in the direct to receive a remake.
Uh, but there was another Zelda game. The weird indie one. That was what he was referring to.
 

random rendum

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However, outright saying that there won't be anything relating to Link's Awakening is a strike against him.
Not for me. Why would he ever say a game wouldn't happen If he WAS lying? He was probably surprised by LA, and probably thought that there would be one Zelda game, the weird indie game.
 

IsmaR

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I'm now curious how ALttP on Switch plays into the whole thing. Persona 5/MPT on Switch are usual easy to claim/believable rumored titles, but I've seen virtually no one say a thing about ALttP getting a remake/re-release, with most assuming Link's Awakening would be the only 2D Zelda in the immediate future.

That and something something so much egregious Zelda love, would be a shame to not get anything for Smash down the line.
 

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I'm now curious how ALttP on Switch plays into the whole thing. Persona 5/MPT on Switch are usual easy to claim/believable rumored titles, but I've seen virtually no one say a thing about ALttP getting a remake/re-release, with most assuming Link's Awakening would be the only 2D Zelda in the immediate future.

That and something something so much egregious Zelda love, would be a shame to not get anything for Smash down the line.
Clearly this means we'll get Bunny Link as the next Zelda fighter!
 

GoodGrief741

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Not for me. Why would he ever say a game wouldn't happen If he WAS lying? He was probably surprised by LA, and probably thought that there would be one Zelda game, the weird indie game.
Uhh, because he has bad sources? Why else would he say something that's untrue?
 

thisjustin2001

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Did you hear Halo's official Twitter tweeted something about wanting Master Chief in Smash? Halo saying anything about Chief in Smash is a pretty solid deconfirmation for him being in the first Fighter Pass, but the fact that Microsoft would be willing to lend Chief to Smash makes him really likely to be in Fighter Pass 2 or 3 in my opinion.
 

RileyXY1

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Did you hear Halo's official Twitter tweeted something about wanting Master Chief in Smash? Halo saying anything about Chief in Smash is a pretty solid deconfirmation for him being in the first Fighter Pass, but the fact that Microsoft would be willing to lend Chief to Smash makes him really likely to be in Fighter Pass 2 or 3 in my opinion.
There's still BK and Steve to be considered here, and Doomguy could also get in which would make MC redundant.
 
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Did you hear Halo's official Twitter tweeted something about wanting Master Chief in Smash? Halo saying anything about Chief in Smash is a pretty solid deconfirmation for him being in the first Fighter Pass, but the fact that Microsoft would be willing to lend Chief to Smash makes him really likely to be in Fighter Pass 2 or 3 in my opinion.
They certainly did a great job at getting people to talk about Master Chief in Smash. I'm not sold on any Halo characters being a fighter in Smash, but a Master Chief Mii costume would be cool.
 

GoodGrief741

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Did you hear Halo's official Twitter tweeted something about wanting Master Chief in Smash? Halo saying anything about Chief in Smash is a pretty solid deconfirmation for him being in the first Fighter Pass, but the fact that Microsoft would be willing to lend Chief to Smash makes him really likely to be in Fighter Pass 2 or 3 in my opinion.
If a Twitter account makes Master Chief likely, then Phil Spencer talking about Banjo makes him borderline confirmed.
 

SKX31

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Did you hear Halo's official Twitter tweeted something about wanting Master Chief in Smash? Halo saying anything about Chief in Smash is a pretty solid deconfirmation for him being in the first Fighter Pass, but the fact that Microsoft would be willing to lend Chief to Smash makes him really likely to be in Fighter Pass 2 or 3 in my opinion.
I'm going to expand on my thoughs in the Chief thread:

I think it's rather noteworthy that Mew2King and the Halo YouTuber HiddenXperia supported this notion. So what if Chief's not going to be in Smash? Well, then Microsoft and 343 can conclude "Look, a significant portion of Halo and Smash fans want to see this happen. So if Nintendo are open to expand the DLC, why not?"

There's still BK and Steve to be considered here, and Doomguy could also get in which would make MC redundant.
Going to disagree on Doomguy and Chief's similarities. Not just because we've got a lot of different sword characters (clones / echoes exluded we have at least 5-8), but their games aren't that alike. Doom favors a much more aggresive style - not just in Doom 2016, where getting enemies to sub 5 % and finishing them off gives you health and ammo, but Doom in general since you're more limited outside of your weapons (Doom 1 and 2). Doomguy's arsenal facilitates this "Strike and make sure the iron's hot" mentality too.

Halo, meanwhile, favors a much more measured approach. Not just in multiplayer where going gung-ho means possibly taking an Energy Sword strike - and thus getting one shot (and getting you teabagged by more evil opponents), but also in singleplayer since Chief's arsenal is more multipurposed and flexible. Doomguy doesn't have a hammer, nor does he have have direct access to alien weaponry (his opponents are demons, not Covenant / Forerunners. The closest Halo analogue would be the Flood, kinda).

Doomguy and Chief could both coexist in Smash and still feel quite different, just like Marth and Ike are both swordusers from the same 'verse, but built very differently.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Uhh, because he has bad sources? Why else would he say something that's untrue?
Thank you. This cannot be emphasized enough. Every leaker easily gets sources who were misled(via leakbait) or outright lied. Verge may have good reasons to trust a user, but that doesn't mean the user in question has legitimate information.
 
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Everyone talks about their bears, their block people, and their supersoldiers, but no one ever talks about the Battletoads as options. Why? :V
 
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RileyXY1

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Everyone talks about their bears, their block people, and their supersoldiers, but no one ever talks about the Battletoads as options. Why? :V
They're not as popular. In terms of Microsoft characters, Banjo-Kazooie and Steve are the most talked about. I can see why. Banjo-Kazooie are very popular requests, were actual Nintendo characters at one point in time, and even have the full backing of Phil Spencer himself. Steve is the protagonist of a massively popular game that is one of the most played games in the world and still gets regular updates despite originally releasing in 2011.
 
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Banjo and Kazooie were as much Nintendo characters as Bayonetta currently is.

They may have been associated with Nintendo, but they were never actual Nintendo characters.
 

thisjustin2001

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If there's a Microsoft rep (or two), I think Chief and Steve deserve it the most by far. Steve is the player character in the best selling game of all-time and Master Chief is THE face of Microsoft, and his home series Halo brought FPS games to the mainstream and made the genre a phenomenon.

Banjo is from a series with a very spotty track record. Two good games on the N64 and several garbage ones on the GBA and 360. Also, they've been completely irrelevant since before I came into this world, and I'm an adult for crying out loud! Outside of people who are nostalgic for the N64, not many people care about Banjo anymore, and there's really been no reason to with the series remaining stagnant (outside of crap games) since '99 and all that.

So yeah, Chief and Steve are the best Microsoft picks for the Fighter Pass, in my opinion.
 

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Several? I thought there was just the one that all of the fans want to forget. Nuts and Bolts must be talked about more due to what I'm going to call the "Federation Force effect".
By several, they mean several games (spread out between the GBA and Xbox 360), not several games on the GBA and several games on the Xbox 360. The games that they're referring to are Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge (GBA), Banjo-Pilot (GBA), and Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts (Xbox 360).

Personally, I wouldn't call Banjo-Pilot "garbage". Nuts & Bolts would probably be a solid game if it was a new IP, but taking away all of the gameplay from the original games and mocking every single person who liked those games was probably not a great way to take the series in a new direction.
 

Door Key Pig

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Like Isaac was a fan-requested character from a dead IP Nintendo OWNED and couldn't make it in, Banjo has that issue in addition to coming from a third party with a couple other IPs that are more profitable. Fan requested but irrelevant Geno got competition from more marketable Square characters.
Though Banjo DID manage to get that not-amiibo-brand statue in nationwide GAME stores over here in the UK, so maybe he still has a cult following to be worthy of a DLC spot, one representing Rareware and its history with Nintendo or something.
 

Ornl

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Everyone talks about their bears, their block people, and their supersoldiers, but no one ever talks about the Battletoads as options. Why? :V
Banjo and Kazooie were as much Nintendo characters as Bayonetta currently is.
They may have been associated with Nintendo, but they were never actual Nintendo characters.
At the time of the N64, Nintendo collaborated with Rare to offer more specific games. Nintendo has promoted Rare games, which means a special link. Thus, Rare has cushioned the failure of the N64 with valuable and historic support, including GoldenEye 007, Donkey Kong 64, Diddy Kong Racing and Banjo-Kazooie. Following these successes, Nintendo had confidence in Rare, and left him more freedom. That's what Nintendo regretted. If Perfect Dark was an apreciated improvement of GoldenEye 007, Conker Bad Fur Day was the game that created the dispute between Nintendo and Rare. Conker Bad Fur Day was considered treason and ended the collaboration. Rare was then divided between those who accepted the takeover of Microsoft, those who left, and thos who created Playtonic Games... Separation had an impact on jobs, and therefore on human lives.

Banjo fans generally don't consider this dispute. At the time of Donkey Kong Country, Shigeru Miyamoto mocked and denigrated the game created by Rare. But he apologized, and the relations was been good. I have not heard of any excuse from Nintendo for rejecting Rare in a thankless way. From my point of view, the dishonor is on the side of Nintendo, because he did not grant a second chance. From my point of view, the dishonor is on the side of Nintendo, because it doesn't hesitate to use Diddy Kong, K. Rool and Krystal in Smash U, while these characters were created by Rare. The presence of Banjo would allow to ignore past mistakes (Rare "treason" + Nintendo response). But before waiting for a new Fighter from Rare, it would be mostly an apology from Nintendo that would be welcome.
 
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Alright, Im pretty much neutral on Banjo myself but I need to clarify some stuff.

If there's a Microsoft rep (or two), I think Chief and Steve deserve it the most by far. Steve is the player character in the best selling game of all-time and Master Chief is THE face of Microsoft, and his home series Halo brought FPS games to the mainstream and made the genre a phenomenon.

Banjo is from a series with a very spotty track record. Two good games on the N64 and several garbage ones on the GBA and 360. Also, they've been completely irrelevant since before I came into this world, and I'm an adult for crying out loud! Outside of people who are nostalgic for the N64, not many people care about Banjo anymore, and there's really been no reason to with the series remaining stagnant (outside of crap games) since '99 and all that.

So yeah, Chief and Steve are the best Microsoft picks for the Fighter Pass, in my opinion.
Wouldnt call the non-64 Banjo games garbage although I would agree that they weren't as sucessful as the N64 ones. Main issue would be that N&B is only reviled due to not being Threeie, Grunty's Revenge being a pretty average GBA title, and Pilot cant comment since I never played it.

At the time of the N64, Nintendo collaborated with Rare to offer more specific games. Nintendo has promoted Rare games, which means a special link. Thus, Rare has cushioned the failure of the N64 with valuable and historic support, including GoldenEye 007, Donkey Kong 64, Diddy Kong Racing and Banjo-Kazooie. Following these successes, Nintendo had confidence in Rare, and left him more freedom. That's what Nintendo regretted. If Perfect Dark was an apreciated improvement of GoldenEye 007, Conker Bad Fur Day was the game that created the dispute between Nintendo and Rare. Conker Bad Fur Day was considered treason and ended the collaboration. Rare was then divided between those who accepted the takeover of Microsoft, those who left, and thos who created Playtonic Games... Separation had an impact on jobs, and therefore on human lives.

Banjo fans generally don't consider this dispute. At the time of Donkey Kong Country, Shigeru Miyamoto mocked and denigrated the game created by Rare. But he apologized, and the relations was been good. I have not heard of any excuse from Nintendo for rejecting Rare in a thankless way. From my point of view, the dishonor is on the side of Nintendo, because he did not grant a second chance. From my point of view, the dishonor is on the side of Nintendo, because it doesn't hesitate to use Diddy Kong, K. Rool and Krystal in Smash U, while these characters were created by Rare. The presence of Banjo would allow to ignore past mistakes (Rare "treason" + Nintendo response). But before waiting for a new Fighter from Rare, it would be mostly an apology from Nintendo that would be welcome.
Most of this comments are just based on misinfo. Conker was never an issue with Nintendo and Miyamoto's comments regarding DKC are an urban myth that become popular. Nintendo liked the idea of BFD to try and attract a more adult public to the N64, and even promoted it at University campuses. You can check more info in the DYKG video.

Miyamoto hating on DKC was a urban myth that probably surged with a bad translation in a magazine or from some comments. In an interview with ign Miyamoto explained that he was surprised by the myth, considering he likes the game and he was constantly helping in the development.

As for Nintendo not buying Rare (as they never owned more than 49%), we will never know why unless we talk with some higher up at Nintendo. It could be that Nintendo didn't wanted ro manage an overseas company without its og owners, it could be that in general Nintendo doesn't buy studios, or it could be simply a venture that Nintendo didn't wanted to put money on. Honestly as I see it is business, nor Nintendo nor Rare need to apologize with each other as their relationship continued with the GBA and help for some ports on the DS and N64 for Diddy Kong Racing and DK64.

If anything the most disrespectful party to Rare IP is Rare itself nowadays.
 
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TheCJBrine

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Banjo and Kazooie were as much Nintendo characters as Bayonetta currently is.

They may have been associated with Nintendo, but they were never actual Nintendo characters.
I dunno, they were used as mascots alongside Mario, DK and Pikachu, at least for some merchandise including an N64 box and Nintendo stores/whatever had B-K and Mumbo plushes.

They may have been originals by Rare, but Nintendo still promoted them as part of their own.

edit: and didn't Nintendo own rights to them? I'm probably wrong here, I don't know, but they were still like Kirby and Pokemon at least, as far as being Nintendo goes.
 
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I dunno, they were used as mascots alongside Mario, DK and Pikachu, at least for some merchandise including an N64 box and Nintendo stores/whatever had B-K and Mumbo plushes.

They may have been originals by Rare, but Nintendo still promoted them as part of their own.
As do they do with Bayonetta now minus plushies and other child-friendly memorabilia.
They market her as if she is theirs as much as they did Banjo back in the day, but they do not own her.
 

TheCJBrine

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As do they do with Bayonetta now minus plushies and other child-friendly memorabilia.
They market her as if she is theirs as much as they did Banjo back in the day, but they do not own her.
Honestly I just thought they owned some rights to B-K; Diddy Kong Racing's box lists Banjo as being licensed by Nintendo, although B-K's own games turn it into a gray area...

I don't really know how the legal stuffs work, I just have a basic idea from observation and stuff since Nintendo had a 49% stake in Rare ._. Really I'm just confused. I guess people just listed them as Nintendo characters since they were exclusives and Nintendo had some sort-of legal stuff with them, but I guess it's the same deal with Bayonetta minus some extra stuff...?
 
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Diddy Kong

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Banjo and Kazooie were as much Nintendo characters as Bayonetta currently is.

They may have been associated with Nintendo, but they were never actual Nintendo characters.
They where created with the intend to become Nintendo characters though...
 

TheCJBrine

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They where created with the intend to become Nintendo characters though...
yeah it really seems like Nintendo had some rights to them since the characters themselves (not game images) were side-by-side like big mascots with Mario, DK and Pikachu on an N64 box, all under spotlights, but I don't really know the legal stuffs behind them...I just know Banjo was licensed by them at some point according to the DKR box...

Nintendo owned just about half of Rare, though...
 
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Diddy Kong

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yeah it really seems like Nintendo had some rights to them since the characters themselves (not game images) were side-by-side like big mascots with Mario, DK and Pikachu on an N64 box, all under spotlights, but I don't really know the legal stuffs behind them...I just know Banjo was licensed by them at some point according to the DKR box...

Nintendo owned just about half of Rare, though...
Yeah the Nintendo-Rare union was a real strong one. Though with the buyout it became apparant there where some issues with them beyond the surface, as Rare tried to get the rights of the Donkey Kong franchise, or possibly only the DKC-content that they created themselves, which is basically everything beside Donkey Kong himself. I'm pretty sure that if they eventually got the rights of Donkey Kong Country, they might've branched it off and call it Diddy Kong Country and have the franchise continue on Microsoft...
 
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yeah it really seems like Nintendo had some rights to them since the characters themselves (not game images) were side-by-side like big mascots with Mario, DK and Pikachu on an N64 box, all under spotlights, but I don't really know the legal stuffs behind them...
I wouldn't put much weight to the box, a lot of characters are featured even if they are not owned by Nintendo :b

Still, Rare was mostly important during the last-half of the SNES era and most of the N64 era though.
Yeah the Nintendo-Rare union was a real strong one. Though with the buyout it became apparant there where some issues with them beyond the surface, as Rare tried to get the rights of the Donkey Kong franchise, or possibly only the DKC-content that they created themselves, which is basically everything beside Donkey Kong himself. I'm pretty sure that if they eventually got the rights of Donkey Kong Country, they might've branched it off and call it Diddy Kong Country and have the franchise continue on Microsoft...
Nintendo normally doesn't acquire companies, so the Stampers (owners of Rare at the time) searched for buyers. Probably at the time, the rights issues didn't exist and just got negotiated during the buyout so Nintendo acquired full control of the extra DK characters and Rare kept their own original franchises. I highly doubt there was any kind of intention from any party to keep the characters. Rights issues can potentially tie characters from being used or can be a mess, so it was better to negotiate.

Even if the relationship was good. We're talking about companies, not people. There is a chance that Nintendo was ok with having Rare made games for them and having invested in part of the company but not so much to own and manage them, even if it sounds kind of silly.
 
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Diddy Kong

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I wouldn't put much weight to the box, a lot of characters are featured even if they are not owned by Nintendo :b

Rare was important during the SNES and N64 era,

Nintendo normally doesn't acquire companies, so the Stampers (owners of Rare at the time) searched for buyers. Probably at the time, the rights issues didn't exist and just got negotiated during the buyout so Nintendo acquired full control of the extra DK characters and Rare kept their own original franchises.

Even if the relationship was good. We're talking about companies, not people. There is a chance that Nintendo was ok with having Rare made games for them and having invested in part of the company but not so much to own and manage them, even if it sounds kind of silly.
That would've been ideal honestly. If Rare would've branched out to both XBox and Nintendo systems. In a way they already where moving into that direction in the later N64 era honestly. They prefered working on their own IPs instead of what Nintendo gave them (DKC). That's why DK64 feels so much like a watered down Banjo-Kazooie. Rare just wanted to have a brand of their own, which is why they didn't prioritize on DK games ever since... well, DKC2. And that's quite shortlisted.

It's a damn shame that the DKC franchise is basically always neglected by their studios. Nintendo neglected it, Retro Studios also kind of did, and Rare was also guilty of this in the past... Why can't they find a dedicated studio for this franchise? It's quite disheartening how basically EVERY big Nintendo franchise has loyal studios dedicated to them, with steady releases, except for Donkey Kong. Even franchises selling less than DKC have this...

It's depressing honestly.
 

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yeah it really seems like Nintendo had some rights to them since the characters themselves (not game images) were side-by-side like big mascots with Mario, DK and Pikachu on an N64 box, all under spotlights, but I don't really know the legal stuffs behind them...I just know Banjo was licensed by them at some point according to the DKR box...

Nintendo owned just about half of Rare, though...
I think It was more that Nintendo was just publishing and promoting the IP as if it was one of their own in order to garner more interest for them, a similar thing is going on at the Nintendo characters hub at the official NoE website where series like Ace Attorney, Professor Layton and Inazuma Eleven are featured among other Nintendo franchises. Despite Nintendo not owning them, but still updating and promoting them on their website as if they are and all.

Likewise with series like Bayonetta as well as Megaman and Castlevania I believe back in the day
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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Have this been brought up yet?
It's from Famitsu Award 2018.

MC: So what's your plan for 2019?
Sakurai: Obviously the DLC comes first. That's definite. And I'm really having fun making them. It's like, "Am I even allowed to make such things from such a game? Me?"
MC: You already have announced one of them.
Sakurai: That is already surprising right? We can deliver it very soon so please wait for a little more.

It's in video so ask someone understand Japanese for double check.
Sakurai part starts from 1:58:43 and the part above is from 2:08:55.
https://live2.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv319102763

Other parts are Sakurai talking about balancing, Famitsu tournament, playing SEKIRO, about his skincare, and his book.
 
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