Newbie 17 - Breaking Bad Mafia! Game over! Who won?

[Orboknown]

welcome to the game rake.

i guess you can ignore my questions towards aleates slot

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I confirm therefore i am

/although technically not added to player

 

[Orboknown]

just get reading broseph.

 

[Orboknown]

rake a full reads list when you're done reading or as you go along would be nice.

 

[Orboknown]

during my half hour left before work imma go reread some of dietz.

 

[Orboknown]

v/la rest of today

 

[Jdietz43]

 

[Jdietz43]

(... I think my response herped a great derp being submitted since all I see is a blank post so here's the message again)

@JDwhy did you hop on ori? give me something besides what I have said on ori.

There's no substance or explanation to anything he does yet he's often fine with throwing out a lynch vote.

E.g.:

Vote D1:

There wasn't one

(Haha... You thought Ori actually did something D1 for a second there didn't you?)


Vote on Vitamin:

Very nice work Zen.

Vote: Vitamin C

Vote on me:

JD: When this game first started I had you as a town read. As this game progressed, you slowly drifted from the original town read. In the back of my head I began seeing you more and more as scum. I truly believe now, that soup had a correct read on you.

Vote: JD

I can't find a good reason to keep Ori around if we're going to get the other inactives replaced, he's already posted too much to be truly replaceable but that doesn't mean he's been helpful. I'm willing to lose a slot that has no substantiated votes or opinions, claimed not to know that we were playing fire and ice mafia despite reading the initial playercount, and whose strongest stance to date has been:

I will follow J for he is my god.

It doesn't fill me with hope.

The only one I could see lynching more at this point is J, but I don't think that will happen until a later date when his scum shows through to more people than just me... probably after I'm dead.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Intital Semi reads forthwith and what not reasons will be limited

1) until ran flipped town i was convinced on scum , play was to erratic to be vanilla townie, so i went 0 for 1 there , initial read on kary was scum, couldn't keep the votes straight , nor come up with anything halfways an explanation

2) Posting too much or too little has no bearing on alliance imo, first mafia game i did, i was mafia aligned, lost my role pm and didnt do any night action discussing with my mafia partner, managed to post almost every single day with reads and votes and ended the game in a stale mate .

3) second game i had reads on 2 out of 3 members, but only had one piece of evidence to go on, so i rely more on what i see during d2 and d3

4) replacing aleate i guess means my read of him / her was right, so now i am 1 of 2 , so going to have to readt all dem walls again to get solid reads

Initial Thoughts:

Zen / Orbo: Scum: posting is as posting does, it is strange that you are happy to lynch someone for the sake of getting one over with , could have kept waiting and getting opinions from only certain players seems to suggest you have reads on them , so maybe you'd like to enlighten us on that. Plus how could you guarantee a doc choice, other than either trying to hint a claim right there or create a null kill

Vinyl: seems to post short amounts but answers the questions for now im saying null with a townie swing

Ori_Bro / o-Serin-o: Inactivity is the the best way to keep suspicion off your right ? maybe if you could give us some initial reads, that would at least get something up, plus then they start to post , and then kary is killed : maybe they are protecting themselves, maybe one of em had an idea or knew kary was clear scumming and could drag the boat down, so one of them is scum imo

JDietz / Shotty : one of them is scum, leaning to JDeitz after seeing the jump on ran, even though rans play was odd, it was sort of i feel structured to purposely throw people off , maybe the reads he had were inaccurate , maybe they weren't in the end his sideways action threw him under the bus. Shotty didnt seem to upset about being band wagoned , so either he was clear town and had nothing to worry about or scum with the knowledge he could off the people who got too close

Any questions for me just shoot em over, preferably i'd like to get a d2 in without a lynch, just to get better reads, even after reading all of those posts i have alot of stuff rattling about

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

*edit : meant to say beofre ran died and i saw he was townie i had him as scum

as for J, haven't seen any posts by him, so no read yet

 

[Vinylic.]

There's no substance or explanation to anything he does yet he's often fine with throwing out a lynch vote.

Oh. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Vote: Ori

 

[Vinylic.]

Oh, soup got banned.

I didn't even notice.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gotta say, loving Rake's 1089 analysis of the players because I feel he is bringing new things to the table like an OrboScum read which is something I deffo don't agree to, but its nice to have.

JDietz / Shotty : one of them is scum, leaning to JDeitz after seeing the jump on ran, even though rans play was odd, it was sort of i feel structured to purposely throw people off , maybe the reads he had were inaccurate , maybe they weren't in the end his sideways action threw him under the bus. Shotty didnt seem to upset about being band wagoned , so either he was clear town and had nothing to worry about or scum with the knowledge he could off the people who got too close

This part of his post I really really do like. W.r.t. Shotty, the bolded is what I am seeing moreso than the latter half.

I like the thought of one of Ori/Serin being scum too because I do agree to that too but I feel its Ori>Serin.

Side note to everyone: I am on Ori atm, but if you guys want a Ditzy lynch, you will not need to twist my arm to get on dat ***. =3c

 

[Shottymaster]

@Rake - In your opinion, is Ori scum or town? In your reads list you didn't assess him in detail, and since he has a respectable number of votes right now I want to know what you think of him.

 

[Jdietz43]

Intital Semi reads forthwith and what not reasons will be limited

1) until ran flipped town i was convinced on scum , play was to erratic to be vanilla townie, so i went 0 for 1 there , initial read on kary was scum, couldn't keep the votes straight , nor come up with anything halfways an explanation

[snipped]

JDietz / Shotty : one of them is scum, leaning to JDeitz after seeing the jump on ran, even though rans play was odd, it was sort of i feel structured to purposely throw people off , maybe the reads he had were inaccurate , maybe they weren't in the end his sideways action threw him under the bus.

Explain why you feel my being on Ran was bad when you straight out tell us you were sure of his scum-hood until you read up to his flip. You can't say "it was structured to throw people off", admit you thought he was scum, and then condemn me for thinking likewise at the time.

Oh. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Vote: Ori

Vinyl... You can't just come in and do exactly what we're unsatisfied with Ori for to vote him

 

[#HBC | J]

The only one I could see lynching more at this point is J, but I don't think that will happen until a later date when his scum shows through to more people than just me... probably after I'm dead.

Enough's enough. I'm calling you out on your read on me now after these past couple of posts directed at me. What is your real read on me? If it scum, what are your reasonings on me BESIDES the fact that I have you as a scum-read and your OMGUS attack on me?

 

[Jdietz43]

Enough's enough. I'm calling you out on your read on me now after these past couple of posts directed at me. What is your real read on me? If it scum, what are your reasonings on me BESIDES the fact that I have you as a scum-read and your OMGUS attack on me?

Yes I have you as scum. You're trying to set up reasons for lynches too hard, specifically mine. You're tunneling me, but it doesn't seem founded in town intent whatsoever. That twilight attack on me saying "if you're town then yeah we'll be mad" was grimy as hell, you've been reaching for reasoning and I don't like it.

Beyond things pertaining to me, I see your position as inherently fake. You discount yourself intentionally with words like "Shruggers" and the flippant .gifs you just posted, and you're still buddying Orbo. You leverage things like Soup's twilight quotes after his death to explain your terrible attack on me when you were the direct reason he was saying those quotes in the first place and try to pass it as genuine. At one point you even talked about scum setting Vitamin up like you had the inside lane: the exact thing you seem to be actively doing toDay. I don't like you J, you're up to something plain and simple, but until everyone agrees with me all I can do is silently hate your guts for looking like a snake in the grass, pull the weeds, and hope it all becomes more clear cut.

 

[#HBC | J]

You're trying to set up reasons for lynches too hard, specifically mine.

You are the only person I have actually pushed for a lynch. Trying to set up reason to lynch too hard? No, I am pointing things out on you that are scummy. Have you been reading other people's posts against you? They are repeating the exact same responses I am against you because guess what, they also find that as scummy as well.

You're tunneling me, but it doesn't seem founded in town intent whatsoever.

I'll take the hit on being tunnely which is why I re-evaluated and decided to push Ori atm.

That twilight attack on me saying "if you're town then yeah we'll be mad" was grimy as hell, you've been reaching for reasoning and I don't like it.

...that was toDay not in twilight yesterDay. You repeat yourself by saying I am reaching for reasoning yet you don't point out how.

Beyond things pertaining to me, I see your position as inherently fake. You discount yourself intentionally with words like "Shruggers" and the flippant .gifs you just posted, and you're still buddying Orbo.

You have just listed a bunch of null-tells and have not explained how those are scummy at all. I use .gifs and so do a majority of DGamers when expressing some posts because they are fun to use. Using a word like *shruggers* is not scummy because its just an expression like *sigh*, etc. How is that scummy? Buddying Orbo, how is scummy if he is doing the exact same thing as well by calling me his "town bro 4 life"? You are holding a double standard PURELY because I am attacking you more aggressively.

You leverage things like Soup's twilight quotes after his death to explain your terrible attack on me when you were the direct reason he was saying those quotes in the first place and try to pass it as genuine.

I have many many more points than those and Orbo had asked me for Soup's reasoning and Soup himself also found your slot scummy as mentioned by also Orbo/Rake/Ori.

At one point you even talked about scum setting Vitamin up like you had the inside lane: the exact thing you seem to be actively doing toDay.

Someone asked me if there was another scenario which could be presented w.r.t. Vitamin, why are you using this as a scum-point? You are saying I am doing that to you toDay which isn't true because I am town and I am pushing a scum-read. You say I am setting you up but in my eyes(and other people's) its pushing a scum-read.

I don't like you J, you're up to something plain and simple, but until everyone agrees with me all I can do is silently hate your guts for looking like a snake in the grass, pull the weeds, and hope it all becomes more clear cut.

Your suspicion of me is full of garbage because you didn't have a read on me until after the fact that I pushed you and you seem more so trying to force a scum-read on me due to my push on you rather than having a legit scum-read on my slot and going after it. You say all you can do is silently just hide and wait when that isn't true at all. Build a case on me, express your distaste, try and convince people why I am scum instead of sitting there like a child and doing nothing to help your cause. If you were town, why would you need to wait until you could convince a minority of the players instead of toDay. if you truly felt this strongly about my slot being scum, you need to actually up the any and show everyone WHY I am scum.

If we are talking fake-suspicions, Ditzy, yours is a hella lot more fake.

 

[JTB]

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline 5/16, 11:59 PM EST

Vinyl. [0]
Anomandaris_Rake [0]
Ori_bro [4] Orboknown, Jdietz, J, Vinyl
o-Serin-o [0]
Shottymaster [0]
Jdietz [1] Ori_bro
Orboknown [0]
J [0]

Not voting: o-Serin-o, Shottymaster., Anomandaris_Rake

 

[Alacion]

Anomandaris_Rake, thanks a lot for taking over and good luck!

 

[Jdietz43]

No, it was twilight, the Vitamin lynch had been reached. My comment that people spazzed on was on him self hammering remember?

Ditzy dies toMorrow. 100%

The reason I feel so strongly about this is that it was an innocent comment I made, and you trying to read that far into it feels like reaching for any point to strengthen an arbitrary choice of targets.

I'm not pressuring you that hard because I realize it's mostly vibe and omgus, I'm interested in getting my feelings out there because I have them and they need to be addressed, but I realize my reasoning is petty for an actual lynch at this point. I'd rather have people be looking at it with a critical eye but there's no need to rush to lynch you right this second without more evidence to work with (If Soup could balk and be town, you could be as well). Now the feelings are on the record for when I get lynched or whacked. You're taking a step in the right direction by both talking about it and admitting that you were tunneling which is good though, keep it up and my opinion could turn around. (but if you have your way I'll be dead by then)

 

[#HBC | J]

It doesn't feel as if you care about anything besides your image this game........whyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm not quite sure myself honestly... I guess I feel like I went too gung-ho out of the gate, made a mislynch, then turned around said "Never again", and still hit a townie for a lynch, and I'm worried people will think that means I'm not town and make the total 3 MLs, then someone will lynch someone who lynched me and it will be four... and before we know it we have a blatantly inactive group of nobodies in a lylo scenario.

Maybe I should just stop caring: buck up and be honest and say I don't give a rat's *** if anyone but me or Orbo dies right here and right now, because it wouldn't be far from the truth.

 

[Jdietz43]

Ah: I know how to put it now.

I'm the only one I actually trust 100% to be town, therefore I'm the only one whom I can defend and discuss with certainty. (Zen's slot is as close as I got to an actual solid town read by actual activity and logic, everyone else is just either actively scummy in my eyes or a huge piece of nothing wasting space. Yes: I'm extremely cynical about the state of the game)

 

[Jdietz43]

Like: what else am I supposed to do? I'm actually at a loss.

All my real reads have run dry, flipped town. I don't actually have a real opinion on anyone who wasn't Zen or Ran/Soup/Vitamin/Kary and they're all dead, and the only other truly active participant is you who just replaced in and immediately soured my opinion of them by jumping down my throat for all the effort I put in and some stupid *** twilight remark that they thought was a piece of genius scumtell. Like seriously, what else am I supposed to do right now beyond sit here, lynch inactives, and generally be sour. I stuck my neck out for Vinyl one time yesterDay, and he repays me by doing stuff like repeat Ori's mistake immediately after agreeing with my reasoning? I can't even defend that.

I just want people to flip. I don't care who, part of me doesn't even think I would care if it was me at this point so I'd at least be done.

 

[Jdietz43]

/rant

Sorry everyone had to hear that, but I'm really fed up with this gamestate.

Someone lynch me or Ori and be done with it.

 

[Ori_bro]

Unvote

JD why should we lynch 2 townies? When J joined this game I had a hunch he could have been subbing in for a mafia. I still have my FoS on you but thats just because like you, I can't trust anyone to be town except myself. I know I am town and you guys are L1 from losing another townie when there are 3 mafia still loose.

As it stands I have who I believe the remaining 3 mafia members are and as it stands, every vote currently in place is incorrect.

 

[Shottymaster]

As it stands I have who I believe the remaining 3 mafia members are and as it stands, every vote currently in place is incorrect.

Who are your current suspicions and why?

 

[Ori_bro]

Currently my FoS are as follows,

Serin: He has been inactive not posting anything helpful, he is getting by barely. My main hunch leading to this is that the Mod has been asking for the mafia people to get their actions in each night because the night time deadline was nearly reached and the mafia had yet to complete their action. So by associating his inactivity with the mod's request it seems accurate.

J: The more he posts, the more his scumminess rises to me. When he came in as a replacement, he needed to give off a strong persona of an active townie who wanted to get stuff done. This persona was the ideal way to cover up being mafia. The game was very inactive and when he joined he seemed to be that breath of fresh air the game needed. I mean, I've had suspicions since he was replaced in but now its becoming more clear he could be scum. His buddying with Orbo is kinda leaving a bad feeling with me as well. He is also a main advocate for my lynch when he knows I am town.

Orbo: Something doesn't sit right with me one bit about him. I don't have much to say other than that. I haven't put as much thought into Orbo as I have the other's above.


Shotty whats your stance on everyone? Do you see me as scum? Do you feel we are about to waste a day if I am the lynch target?

You haven't said much other than asking Rake to go into more depth about me.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I'm probably gonna have to drop out of this game. **** gotta hella serious in real life.

School, college, life, etc. I don't really have the time to keep up with this too. Sorry.

 

[Orboknown]

Unvote we don't need a lynch immediately.

Initial Thoughts:

Zen / Orbo: Scum: posting is as posting does, it is strange that you are happy to lynch someone for the sake of getting one over with , could have kept waiting and getting opinions from only certain players seems to suggest you have reads on them , so maybe you'd like to enlighten us on that. Plus how could you guarantee a doc choice, other than either trying to hint a claim right there or create a null kill

explain to me where I have been posting for postings sake bro.
im not happy to lynch for a lynches sake, have you been paying attention where I've been saying "don't lynch too fast, I want to make sure I can get a look in at everyone"?
lol I never guaranteed a doc protect, i just suggested targets for the doc. people like ryker swiss and kuz do it all the time.
I do appreciate you bringing fresh opinions to the table. town lean for now.

Currently my FoS are as follows,

Serin: He has been inactive not posting anything helpful, he is getting by barely. My main hunch leading to this is that the Mod has been asking for the mafia people to get their actions in each night because the night time deadline was nearly reached and the mafia had yet to complete their action. So by associating his inactivity with the mod's request it seems accurate.

J: The more he posts, the more his scumminess rises to me. When he came in as a replacement, he needed to give off a strong persona of an active townie who wanted to get stuff done. This persona was the ideal way to cover up being mafia. The game was very inactive and when he joined he seemed to be that breath of fresh air the game needed. I mean, I've had suspicions since he was replaced in but now its becoming more clear he could be scum. His buddying with Orbo is kinda leaving a bad feeling with me as well. He is also a main advocate for my lynch when he knows I am town.

Orbo: Something doesn't sit right with me one bit about him. I don't have much to say other than that. I haven't put as much thought into Orbo as I have the other's above.

Serin read i can deal with.
J read I'll look into, why didn't you ever voice those suspicions before?
you're gonna have to do more than "something ain't right" if you want to try and lynch me. what's suspicious about me?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

My stuff = red
zen / orbo's stuff = white

What do you mean by this? You were expecting me to re-ask your question?
Heh hahahaha nice.
I think it does give mafia some advantage. Or rather makes it harder on us town since mafia will be able to better blend in. Mafia is also at risk for the same reason though as they are vulnerable to the other factions night kills. For this reason, I think it's the best strategy for each mafia to play as proactive and townie as they can. If mafia is aiming to kill off scummies, then you don't want to be a suspicious lurker. This is actually the first Fire & Ice game I've played in so I'm interested in seeing how it all pans out. Regardless of the advantages and disadvantages we will find scum through our sheer will and power of JUSTICE

Lemon (I can't help but it, but that's the name that keeps coming to my head regarding you so I'm just going to refer to you as so from now on n.n), how did you find out about mafia and how did you find out about SWF/Dgames?
As said above this is my first time playing this setup. There is one thing that I plan to keep an eye on, but revealing that ruins the point.

What do you think about Lemon and Ori so far? Do you know why I voted Vitamin?

I think it does give mafia some advantage. Or rather makes it harder on us town since mafia will be able to better blend in. Mafia is also at risk for the same reason though as they are vulnerable to the other factions night kills. For this reason, I think it's the best strategy for each mafia to play as proactive and townie as they can.

If it helps for mafia to play protective townie, then by virtue of that selfsame statement it helps you most to play the protective townie look while being scum .

How would you know this early that it will be easier for mafia to blend in with reg town, even with the two factions, you said yourself you had never played this set up, so it could be easier or harder for mafia to blend.

By leading people around with well worded arguements you are able to lead people around to reconsider their initial reads, while asserting yourself firmly in their mind as town, very productive for someone possibly anti town especially because we townies so far have lynched our own, that means that either

a) mafia is one of the inactive players : leaning to serin because of quotes yet incoming from other players, meaning the other member could just let town keep flailing around, despite the inactivity

b) you are the other mafia member and now have to damage control to pick up karys mess

c) you have genuine concern for the towns well being

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kary
@Zen, JDietz43: do you think Ranmaru really answered the case you made against him? What's your read of him at the moment?

My top two scum picks at the moment: Ranmaru, Me (joking), Zen I guess.

Where is your scum read of me coming from? As for Ranmaru I feel his response adequately answered mine and the speed at which he answered it was good as well.

Not really a defence to his accusation, which i can understand slightly due to lack of any real evidence being provided , but now when i go back to it , it seems like your trying to deflect attention from the scum read Kary had on you

I know how much influence I can have in getting what I want

So, you know how to lead people to conclusions they might have not had until you provided enough of an argument to swing them. Interesting , what's to keep you from playing town aligned to "get what you want" and have town members sheep to you and kill each other as has already been happening

Ran explain explain your Vinyl read to me, then rethink it, realize he is scum and join me on his wagon. It's the only way you're making it out alive today.

So the only way he makes it out alive is jumping a wagon ? Not roleclaiming town or actually posting something that makes people reconsider to a town alignment , i imagine his play was purposely unstructured to throw the different mafia factions into a "what if.." situation, where they couldn't get a read on rans aligment, obv this did not go so well for him

You know what I actually am for lynching right now if everyone else is down for it

I mean if we have scum, the best thing to do is lynch them rather than drag things out and give them a chance to escape/create anti-town content

So, basically you are willing to wagon on because everyone else is, not because you have your own strong scum read or because you noticed something off with posts ? Seems semi anti - town to me **btw if i missed reading your opinion on this please link it , still trying to get le hang of this **

But yet all we've been giving scum is time , town has already lynched two of its own and lost one, giving both mafia factions **one with only 1 person left ** ample time to escape and create anti-town content.

Why did you unvote? Continue with the day if you wish. We can definitely end it now though. Draging out the day is not necessarily protown.

It wasn't necessarily anti town at that point either, he could have unvoted simply to cast pressure to another player or to avoid a fast lynch, you have to at least concede that in hindsight dragging it out a little would have not been hurtful to town

I actually contemplated this earlier

And yet you did nothing about it ? Seems like if you already had it in mind that you would have been the first to post it, not wait for someone else to reach the same conclusions you had


Quote:
Originally Posted by th3kuzinator
Don't bother looking for scummates as a basis for finding someone scum. Always backfires. I don't know why Zen is scumhunting in that manner, either.

You're right.

he's right ? in what context, that you are hunting scum tangent to the effective way ? Maybe because you know yourself to be scum, thus making your scumhunting efforts change . Or was he right about ineffective ways of scumhunting, to which he has stated you as doing as well. Relevance to your agreement would be nice

Ran, legitimately who do you think is the other scum team? It's in both our interest to find them.

There are only two ways this could be in your interest at that time :

1) you are town aligned and needed to see if Rans scum teams were anywhere close to yours (under the assumption ran was scum )

2) you are part of the team kary was and wanted to see if ran had reads on the other team that coincided with your own , thereby getting town view so you had an idea of who to look out for

if you have another reason, feel free to explain it

Ran if you give us your partner, I will make sure he lives until we have the other scum team. Deal?

How could you guarantee this ? That would mean you are either the doc and able to save his scumbuddy or mafia to control your scummate not to lynch / do anything about Rans scumbuddy. Thge least likely is that you are town and would try to convince everyone not to lynch Rans scum buddy, effectively making you scum swing


See post 610 here for relevance to my next thing


If it didn't make sense, why not even touch on why it didn't or for that matter say anything , besides pressuering Ran, who had pressure already, would your time have been better spent to get on the logic right then and there ?


I have nothing on orbo yet, but by extension of him replacing out zen, my reads on zen move to him, until i go back and re read / more posting by orbo happens to sway my opinion

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

**EDIT** anything in the in the quote thing that is just QUOTE: is Zen's posts, i havent quite figured out quoting yet, sorry, the stuff with quotes from others and responses by zen is semi better organized

 

[Orboknown]

lets see how much of this i can answer for zen since ya know, im not zen .-.

 

[Orboknown]

My stuff = red
zen / orbo's stuff = white







If it helps for mafia to play protective townie, then by virtue of that selfsame statement it helps you most to play the protective townie look while being scum .

Mafia attempts to look town while still being scum, easier to do in this setup since they actually do need to look for scum. Zen had no scum intention that I read in these posts.

How would you know this early that it will be easier for mafia to blend in with reg town, even with the two factions, you said yourself you had never played this set up, so it could be easier or harder for mafia to blend.

Explained above, mafia 101. Mafia must look townie to avoid being lynched. much easier to do when mafia actually has to scumhunt for the other team.

By leading people around with well worded arguements you are able to lead people around to reconsider their initial reads, while asserting yourself firmly in their mind as town, very productive for someone possibly anti town especially because we townies so far have lynched our own, that means that either

It's a townies job to get their viewpoint across to other people, it doesn't matter how good your reads are if youu can't get others to act on them.

a) mafia is one of the inactive players : leaning to serin because of quotes yet incoming from other players, meaning the other member could just let town keep flailing around, despite the inactivity

b) you are the other mafia member and now have to damage control to pick up karys mess

c) you have genuine concern for the towns well being

C is always the correct answer. you do know we are playing with a two mafia team setup yes?

Not really a defence to his accusation, which i can understand slightly due to lack of any real evidence being provided , but now when i go back to it , it seems like your trying to deflect attention from the scum read Kary had on you

How can zen defend form something that has nothing presented? it was a blanket accusation and Zen asked for reasoning, which never came iirc.

So the only way he makes it out alive is jumping a wagon ? Not roleclaiming town or actually posting something that makes people reconsider to a town alignment , i imagine his play was purposely unstructured to throw the different mafia factions into a "what if.." situation, where they couldn't get a read on rans aligment, obv this did not go so well for him

scum dies unless they lynch scum. that was the mentality.
also roleclaiming means next to nothing unless you're the doc in this setup, since scum can just claim vt.

So, basically you are willing to wagon on because everyone else is, not because you have your own strong scum read or because you noticed something off with posts ? Seems semi anti - town to me **btw if i missed reading your opinion on this please link it , still trying to get le hang of this **

But yet all we've been giving scum is time , town has already lynched two of its own and lost one, giving both mafia factions **one with only 1 person left ** ample time to escape and create anti-town content.

I can't speak for the ran lynch, but vitamin was scummy as **** as i pointed out with my own reasoning and zen/J/slightly jd pointed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by th3kuzinator
Don't bother looking for scummates as a basis for finding someone scum. Always backfires. I don't know why Zen is scumhunting in that manner, either.

he's right ? in what context, that you are hunting scum tangent to the effective way ? Maybe because you know yourself to be scum, thus making your scumhunting efforts change . Or was he right about ineffective ways of scumhunting, to which he has stated you as doing as well. Relevance to your agreement would be nice

Dunno bout this, zen was being zen.

There are only two ways this could be in your interest at that time :

1) you are town aligned and needed to see if Rans scum teams were anywhere close to yours (under the assumption ran was scum )

2) you are part of the team kary was and wanted to see if ran had reads on the other team that coincided with your own , thereby getting town view so you had an idea of who to look out for

if you have another reason, feel free to explain it

getting someone else's reads isn't in someone's best interest? especially on a second scum team roaming, going under the ranscum assumption ran would know one person is on his team and so he would have a better look for who might be the other scum team.

How could you guarantee this ? That would mean you are either the doc and able to save his scumbuddy or mafia to control your scummate not to lynch / do anything about Rans scumbuddy. Thge least likely is that you are town and would try to convince everyone not to lynch Rans scum buddy, effectively making you scum swing

no idea on if zen would have gone through with this or just trying to get a free lynch prize out of ran, but zen does have influence.

 

[Orboknown]

EBWOP:

My stuff = red
zen / orbo's stuff = white







If it helps for mafia to play protective townie, then by virtue of that selfsame statement it helps you most to play the protective townie look while being scum .

Mafia attempts to look town while still being scum, easier to do in this setup since they actually do need to look for scum. Zen had no scum intention that I read in these posts.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

@Rake - In your opinion, is Ori scum or town? In your reads list you didn't assess him in detail, and since he has a respectable number of votes right now I want to know what you think of him.

Ah , sorry bout that, i know my initial reads may have not been to in depth, smash boards kept logging me out every 10 minutes, so i didn't make it through all the pages before i posted, which was my bad, this is also why i didn't have anything for J, which i will be doing later today.

For ori, some of the posting and things other players have said have really stuck with me for example :

Ori_Bro Wrote:

Well in my first game I was mafia. I kinda felt nervous because I didnt wanna get exposed especially since I was nooby.

Overall I favor being Townie in forum mafia. Its just a personal preference.

If ori was nervous in that game (which i wasn't there for ofc) then i would imagine he / she didn't post much and tried to avoid drawing questions and again in this play he / she has been slightly inactive and active going in peeks, makes me think that he / she is mafia again and has realized that the play style worked previously and is using it again only this time building up more activity to appear less scummy, seeing as many people view inactives as essentially scum.


Ori_bro wrote:

whoops I totally didn't look over the end of that post.

I'll go over and look at their relationship once more.

Why didn't he / she read the entire thing before formulating an opinion on it (i know i am guilty of this, but i readily admit that was my bad) seems like maybe he / she was trying to feed JD what he /she thought JD wanted to hear.


Ori_bro wrote:

Kary was mafia and was killed during N1? Thats a very interesting move on the mafia part

Not really so much interesting as odd, why not let Kary live and try to get a cc from the doc, why not have Kary claim town ? The other mafia threw kary under the bus after everyones suspicions started piling on to him , this either suggests that both other mafia members had a strong read on him or one of them convinced the other , either way Kary being night killed means the other mafia has at least some semblance of an idea as to the opposite team, it might be easier to allow them to kill each other and go from there


Ori_bro wrote:

Very nice work Zen.

Vote: Vitamin C

Why jump on zens opinion like its the gospel truth, what ideas did Ori_bro have and why not air them out ? If Ori_bro agrees , then why not restate things you found odd ?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
Each of you on the Vitamin wagon I'd like for you to explain which parts of the case you agree with/why it makes him scummy in your own words.




Ori's response :

To be quite honest, I am joining the wagon right now. The way you presented your case on him was simply phenomenal and it was what made me change my mind from a Vinyl lynch to Vitamin. I still give you major props for your invested time on Vitamin good stuff

Again, even after being asked for an explanation behind the vote, Ori's response was to "join the wagon" and just use Zens case, without presenting additional thoughts on it, seems strange to me, i know it could well be the case that Ori had nothing to add, but to me it seems like even a little tid bit of the thoughts ori had would have been useful

Ori_bro wrote:

every vote currently in place is incorrect.

that is not only ominous but entirely unhelpful, if you think every vote currently is in the wrong place, why not add some reads to that post, Ori only did ones for J, JD and Orbo, while skipping serin, shotty as well as others, seems strange to me

Then finally in post 1109
Ori does some on serin, but moves back to J and orbo , then asks shotty for thoughts, seems like there might be something there to look into, not saying focusing on certain people is bad, but i would have i know i would have appreciated even a little view of Ori's thoughts on my player (Aleate) shotty, etc

So right now for ori i'm leaning scum-null, i will be going back , but for now its more scum than null, maybe 60 - 40 for me

@J: you'll find i do many things that make absolutely no sense at all, usually because it works so well : ), i am a surprising person to say the least, look forward to seeing what you and others see my slot as

 

[Orboknown]

Yo rake. read this post before anything else.

Not really so much interesting as odd, why not let Kary live and try to get a cc from the doc, why not have Kary claim town ? The other mafia threw kary under the bus after everyones suspicions started piling on to him , this either suggests that both other mafia members had a strong read on him or one of them convinced the other , either way Kary being night killed means the other mafia has at least some semblance of an idea as to the opposite team, it might be easier to allow them to kill each other and go from there

you don't seem to realize or aren't taing into account that there are two different scum factions who don't know the other factions members.

 

[Orboknown]

@JD's post before the one im quoting by J-aight, i guess that works. still would like to see oyu not piggybacking my slot's pushes.

This part of his post I really really do like. W.r.t. Shotty, the bolded is what I am seeing moreso than the latter half.

I like the thought of one of Ori/Serin being scum too because I do agree to that too but I feel its Ori>Serin.

Side note to everyone: I am on Ori atm, but if you guys want a Ditzy lynch, you will not need to twist my arm to get on dat ***. =3c

J why is the bolded true, moreso with only one of the two being scum? why can't they be on opposite factions?

 

[Orboknown]

I'm not quite sure myself honestly... I guess I feel like I went too gung-ho out of the gate, made a mislynch, then turned around said "Never again", and still hit a townie for a lynch, and I'm worried people will think that means I'm not town and make the total 3 MLs, then someone will lynch someone who lynched me and it will be four... and before we know it we have a blatantly inactive group of nobodies in a lylo scenario.

Maybe I should just stop caring: buck up and be honest and say I don't give a rat's *** if anyone but me or Orbo dies right here and right now, because it wouldn't be far from the truth.

dude just don't let mafia bug you emotionally, i get when you put in a lot of work and people call you out on it but people will be people.