NEW WARIO TECH! - Bike Braking

[Vik]

Wrong.

I tested this already, air dodge is better for Bike Braking.

When I used dair, Wario whips out the bike but dies before he can get moving. When I air dodged, Wario was able to get the Bike out and start moving in the opposite direction, hence not dying >_>

I understand, it seems weird because dair is usually the best choice for Wario, but for Bike Braking it's air dodge.

If this works, you'd want to use fair, not dair or air dodge

So you agree with me or what lol

lol, you want to fastfall aerials to help survive potential vertical KOs

 

[infomon]

Hmmmm.... so thinking about this.... suppose that the amount of time difference between the time that you can airdodge out of hitstun, to the time that you can use an aerial out of hitstun, grows proportionally with the amount of hitstun. That is, for lower-knockback (hence lower hitstun) hits, your airdodge and aerial could come out on the same frame at best, whereas for large-knockback hits, you may have as many as 10 frames to airdodge before you could have used an aerial instead.

I think that's the case, but it's really just a guess until we know the formula for certain. What it means is that, if Wario is sent horizontally (ie. let's ignore the potential need to fastfall an aerial for now), it will depend on the knockback of the move (factoring in Wario's % damage), that determines whether or not the aerial or the airdodge would finish sooner out of hitstun, allowing Wario to use his bike.

Yipes.

 

[Gichan]

oh my God, I love you people but you guys both have strong points! So wait,

I got hit by bowser's Fsmash after grab release, do I, 1) Airdoge FIRST then jump and bike? 2) Dair with c-stick AND control stick then jump? 3) dair with c-stick and control then airdodge?

**** I'm confused, I just DI, didn't know there were more things to stop it.

also, should I always go for bike braking or when is it good to use?

 

[infomon]

The easy answer: if you're worried about hitting the side, use an airdodge, then bike. If you're more worried about the ceiling, use a fastfalled Fair (hold down on the control stick while you C-stick the Fair), then bike.

If you don't have your Bike, instead use a Jump towards the stage. During knockback this will send you super high, so you may have to DI so that you're sent lower than the corner (where you'd usually want to go), so that you don't die from the jump going too high. It.... sorta depends on the amount of knockback, and your proximity to the side or ceiling killzones.

If Fair and Dair are really the same # of frames long, then you can use either one; but you have to do it differently. Do not hold the control stick down + C-stick the Dair; that ruins the fastfall. Either use the control-stick + A button, or C-stick the Dair. In either case, Dairs can be finnicky, so tap Down afterwards just in case. Or just use Fair, and hold down while you C-stick forward.

There are more complications though. At low percents (or rather, shorter-distance KOs), you're better off using a fastfalled Fair (or Dair) instead of the airdodge. For longer-range trajectories, the airdodge becomes better; unless you're headed vertically enough that you need the fastfall from the aerial. We're not sure exactly where the tradeoff occurs.

Also, if you're holding an item, throw it instead of the airdodge or the Fair/Dair... then bike.

Rawr.

 

[DemonFart]

the funniest thing happened to me in basic brawl one day. i was wario on hyrule temple against captain falcon and some other people i dont remember. when captain falcon(cf) got the smash ball and caught me in his final smash.(we were on the bottom part of hyrule) as soon as the final smash ended i quickly pressed side-b(bike) and all of a sudden before i reached my doom(flying sideways) wario froze in the sitting position and went back to the stage at a normal pace. while i was in the air on my bike,CF jumped of the stage to try and knee of justice me and missed. he then tried to recover back to safety but missed the ledge and ended up dying. i then started taunting while he suffered and probably cried his head off. i had at least 100% but 10 secs were left on clock so i lived and won the match. i'll try to get a vid up because luckily i saved the replay.

 

[Gichan]

infzy, thanks for the advice and answer. Now I know what to do. Bike is just for drastic ****, but I should do the usual for the rest.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Does this stop vertical momentum and spikes as well?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

=o Let's Find Out

 

[PhantomX]

Does this stop vertical momentum and spikes as well?

It doesn't stop spikes, don't know about upwards momentum. I've tried surviving an IC spike by just biking, and where I would've lived via Meteor Canceling I died while pulling out the bike.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

maybe you have to airdodge first phantom......I tried to use this to stop ddd's grab release u smash but I think I did it wrong. GOGO

 

[PhantomX]

How are you going to survive a spike by airdodging? You'll be dead before you regain control Go to sleep, Fiction, you're saying dumb ****, lol.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

How are you going to survive a spike by airdodging? You'll be dead before you regain control Go to sleep, Fiction, you're saying dumb ****, lol.

I've airdodged out of spikes and up b'ed before at lower percents. Just sayin.

 

[infomon]

Except with meteor cancelling, you don't need to airdodge first; you should be able to up-B (or just Jump if it's available, and your timing is impeccable) sooner even than you could airdodge, I think (though I'm not sure about the timing mechanism involved with meteor cancelling). But if it's not a true meteor that hits you, your best bet is to airdodge (or more likely Fair, depending on the amount of knockback lol).

I'm not sure about vertical KOs, but I suspect the bike might actually help for those as well. And I think you'll want to fastfall Fair first in those situations, rather than airdodge (since the airdodge can't be fastfalled).

 

[PhantomX]

Why do you always mention fastfalled fairs? Why can't we dair? And a spike that you can airdodge then up b out of isn't one that would've killed you anyway, so that's a pointless example -_- The fact is while you're airdodging you're still going downwards, if you meteor cancel or instant up b you stop your descent sooner.

 

[infomon]

Yes srry you can also Dair, I just find it's more risky since IMO it's harder to control whether or not it fastfalls.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Why do you always mention fastfalled fairs? Why can't we dair? And a spike that you can airdodge then up b out of isn't one that would've killed you anyway, so that's a pointless example -_- The fact is while you're airdodging you're still going downwards, if you meteor cancel or instant up b you stop your descent sooner.

I took your advice and got some sleep. Lol you cant airdodge out of spikes XD












EDIT:

Okay I've done some testing on this over the last 45 mins or so (thats a first lol) and this has the exact...and I mean exact or maybe even a little bit better distance than GW's broken bucket brake. Wario's heavier weight and the fact that he can airdodge into a bike brake (while gw has to aerial into bucket brake). It doesn't seem to help that much for vertical KO's since the bike brake actually hops a little bit. I would just suggest FF'ed dairs.

 

[Gichan]

Man you guys own. So horizontal possible kills= bike brake
Vertical possible kills= fast falled dair or fair
Spikes= Instant upB or jump

To bike brake, one AIRDODGES first THEN Bike not aerial first then bike.

That's the gist of it right?

 

[PhantomX]

Yes on the bike brake. For the spike, don't instant jump or you'll die. If you have a good up b (that is to say, not Warios, lol), then use it asap, if it's mediocre, you have to WAIT til your spike speed begins to decrease, THEN jump, then you can do whatever you need to.

I know I sure as hell am going to have a hard time getting into the habit of bike braking, lol. Most of the time when I finally get hit by a kill move there's no chance I'd survive it anyway (lol 200 percent against game and watches).

 

[ColinJF]

For the spike, don't instant jump or you'll die. If you have a good up b (that is to say, not Warios, lol), then use it asap, if it's mediocre, you have to WAIT til your spike speed begins to decrease, THEN jump, then you can do whatever you need to.

If you press X or Y after being hit by a meteor then it will ignore subsequent presses of X or Y for a little while, possibly causing you to miss the actual double jump window (which is about half way through the knockback). However, for some reason, tap jump inputs are never ignored, so you can just mash tap jump and get the meteor cancel every time.

 

[PhantomX]

If you have tap jump active

 

[Dragoomba]

Wario Got A Tech!

So there's no other Wario Techs?

 

[MurdaMoe]

this 56k person is godly.

die hard wario main ;D

 

[Endless Nightmares]

sup Moe

I could've swore Fiction used Bike Braking vs SK92 yesterday...i saw it on the stream

i hope it was recorded lol

 

[MrEh]

i hope it was recorded lol

According to Fiction, it wasn't. ><

 

[Togaboy]

Well an air dodge slows your horizontal momentum just a little bit, that's why I aerial, then jump + airdodge at the same time.

The air dodge is probably the better choice for bike braking because a fastfall aerial sends your trajectory closer to horizontal. And while this is usually a good thing, once you get into very high percentages a fastfall aerial will just make you die off the side sooner. An air dodge doesn't make you DI downward so you travel at a more vertical trajectory, and you are able to fly a longer distance before you die. The blast lines form a rectangle, and ... math blah blah blah I'll just make a crappy picture:

Therefore the air dodge basically gives you more time to pull out the bike because of the more vertical trajectory it provides. @_@

I hope I made sense.

56k. I suggest you remove this, it's misleading to a lot of people. The drawing you have posted does not explain the differences between AD and Dairing. The line drawn at the higher angle, your "AD", has little to no DI, followed by an airdodge. The line drawn at the lesser angle, your "FFaerial", or Dair, has downward DI + a Dair.

Everyone should realize that DI first and foremost determines your trajectory, then you alter said trajectory by inputing additional DI once your momentum has slowed. Addressing 56k again, if you wish to post something informative, don't post a drawing. You can just make a drawing up based on some falsehoods you have in mind. Post a video, perhaps overlaid with trajectory tracings.

What you meant to show with your original, I suspect, is the difference between DI+aerial and DI+airdodge. Far different from what you posted.

 

[PhantomX]

I still need to get into the habit of doing this >_<

 

[Endless Nightmares]

56k. I suggest you remove this

good idea. done and done

 

[MorphedChaos]

I do it all the time, In fact, if I get sent flying to the side I automatically airdodge, but if I get sent flying up I Dair, its really weird, and it came from my D3 days when I'd Airdodge to UpB to momentum cancel.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I actually think that a FF dair will SLOW your momentum faster than this will, however, this will completely STOP your momentum, allowing you to survive certain hits. Its not the best for every situtation.

 

[hyperhopper]

So... what... we don't do an aerial then bike... we actually have to dodge then bike which goes against everything we know!?

i dont even know how to di, so this doesnt go against anything


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huh?