New Toon Link Matchup Thread

[Btmns]

Easiest way to stop punch being charged is SHDA, with angled boomerangs. DK will try to jump and charge his punch to dodge your arrows.
If you hit him with just 1 boomerang all that time and concentration is wasted, extremely frustrating for the DK.

I've just recently noticed i find this match-up much easier when i play aggro, maybe because i connect more strings?

 

[G-Dub]

SHDA is very risky. A good mixup, but if the dk reads it, its PS>PS>RAR Bair/ftilt/option select.

 

[MJG]

I'm not as active as I used to be on the boards. Does anyone want this thread ? Just ask and I'll pick someone that I think will do a better job than me recently. I want the boards to stay alive for other tinks

 

[NH Cody]

Meee .

 

[WindMajor]

Somebody's gotta ask an SMod for the OP now.

Or ***** at them to make one of us mods.

 

[MJG]

Somebody's gotta ask an SMod for the OP now.

Or ***** at them to make one of us mods.

I wanna recommend the thread to someone before I give it away. I would rather keep it if it I dont think the next owner will do well. I already have some people in mind anyways. Just waiting to see if they will post

 

[KT Kasrani]

u aint teh man you used to be. step it up

 

[Musketeer04]

I know you guys are discussing Donkey Kong right now but does anyone else think the falco matchup is extremely hard besides me? And can someone explain it a bit better than the thread? Do I just have to be patient and spam bomb until I get an opening to close?

 

[G-Dub]

I know you guys are discussing Donkey Kong right now but does anyone else think the falco matchup is extremely hard besides me? And can someone explain it a bit better than the thread? Do I just have to be patient and spam bomb until I get an opening to close?

Yeah you gotta be SUPER patient in this MU, untill he gets off stage. Arrows and rangs really **** up falcos phantasm, and if he upBs, he should die for it 99% of the time. On the ground things are a different story. Nothing we do up close will be very good because of falcos jab and grab. Lazers are aggravating, but toon gets around these fairly well with our bombs, and platforms are our best friend vs. falco. His reflector is nearly useless in this MU because of the angles we can send our projectiles.... umm yeah theres a lot more situational stuff i could write about, but i dont wanna write pages and pages of this MU.

EDIT: if you want more detailed MU explanation, PM me and ill write something up for you... im to lazy right now

 

[WindMajor]

If you play Falco's game, you're gonna lose. Maybe I'm just bad, but I can't find success in pushing through the lasers and landing a decent hit. I simply eat too much damage, and get caught in too many frame traps. It's not worth it. I do significantly better by camping him vertically, making him go through the trouble of approaching us. That means jumping from platform to platform throwing bombs down to cover your landings. It's slower, yeah, but it's easier and much less frustrating.

 

[Musketeer04]

Yeah you gotta be SUPER patient in this MU, untill he gets off stage. Arrows and rangs really **** up falcos phantasm, and if he upBs, he should die for it 99% of the time. On the ground things are a different story. Nothing we do up close will be very good because of falcos jab and grab. Lazers are aggravating, but toon gets around these fairly well with our bombs, and platforms are our best friend vs. falco. His reflector is nearly useless in this MU because of the angles we can send our projectiles.... umm yeah theres a lot more situational stuff i could write about, but i dont wanna write pages and pages of this MU.

EDIT: if you want more detailed MU explanation, PM me and ill write something up for you... im to lazy right now

What is PM and how do I do that(I'm still don't fully know how to use the site). Also most falcos phantasm just go through my arrows, I don't understand when they need to be out in order to stop him. And how do you use the platform in this MU. I just jump around and through bombs down to cover my landing or stand on one and constantly throw bombs in a very static way.

 

[G-Dub]

What is PM and how do I do that(I'm still don't fully know how to use the site). Also most falcos phantasm just go through my arrows, I don't understand when they need to be out in order to stop him. And how do you use the platform in this MU. I just jump around and through bombs down to cover my landing or stand on one and constantly throw bombs in a very static way.

Being static is never good to be especially as TL. Camp platforms to stay up away from his lazers, and throw angled boomerangs down at the ground to zone falco. If you get grabbed before 40% your going to get CG'd>spike>tech chased/edge-guarded; so stay away at these percents and stay in the air and on platforms. Also on battlefield (one of falco's favorite stages) tink can stay high above falco out of reach of his lazers and very effectively camp the platforms by z-dropping bombs between the gaps to cover landings, tossing them down at a platform to keep falco at bay/rack dmg, and numerous other shenanigans.
To PM (private message me), click my name and click "send message" or jus leave a visitor message and i'll get back to you. I have knowledge in this MU and Alt falco and can help you out. Im sure some other toon link players will as well.

 

[WindMajor]

This is now Falco discussion.

Go.

 

[G-Dub]

nothing else was happening

 

[MJG]

OP updated (Falcoooooooooooo). I will FOR SURE put up a summary for DK soon since I have good amount of time to do so this week.

 

[Musketeer04]

Being static is never good to be especially as TL. Camp platforms to stay up away from his lazers, and throw angled boomerangs down at the ground to zone falco. If you get grabbed before 40% your going to get CG'd>spike>tech chased/edge-guarded; so stay away at these percents and stay in the air and on platforms. Also on battlefield (one of falco's favorite stages) tink can stay high above falco out of reach of his lazers and very effectively camp the platforms by z-dropping bombs between the gaps to cover landings, tossing them down at a platform to keep falco at bay/rack dmg, and numerous other shenanigans.
To PM (private message me), click my name and click "send message" or jus leave a visitor message and i'll get back to you. I have knowledge in this MU and Alt falco and can help you out. Im sure some other toon link players will as well.

So how long does an arrow/boomerang have to be out to stop his phantasm(also grounded up-b stops it). So we use the ledges just to stay away from his lasers? Is there any other reason to use them besides staying away from lasers or throwing angled boomerangs and bombs? I assume you have to be very patient in this MU by staying away and spamming bombs.

 

[G-Dub]

So how long does an arrow/boomerang have to be out to stop his phantasm(also grounded up-b stops it). So we use the ledges just to stay away from his lasers? Is there any other reason to use them besides staying away from lasers or throwing angled boomerangs and bombs? I assume you have to be very patient in this MU by staying away and spamming bombs.

Falcos phantasm has invulnerability for the first third of the move (except for start-up) so it doesnt matter how long the arrow is out, it matters how long phantasm has been out. An arrow should strike falco offstage during the start-up of his phantasm.
I cant write much right now, but i will write an entire guide to this matchup and post it.

 

[southpaw]

dont bother throwing projectiles off stage/near the ledge when falco has the ledge. falco can easily time side'bs during our endlag of any projectile or on our landings from short hops because we're floaty. I'd recommend just standing around half to quarter stage away and jab at his side-b on reaction or try to shield and punish the sideb onstage. either force him to use normal getups or jumps and pressure accordingly.

of course not all falcos blindly side b immediately from the ledge but you'd be surprised how many will even if you're ready for it.

 

[Musketeer04]

How hard do you guys think this MU is? I find it extremely difficult for some reason.

 

[G-Dub]

How hard do you guys think this MU is? I find it extremely difficult for some reason.

Falco is aggravating but you jus have to stay very patient. If played properly, its really not that difficult. Its just really annoying and you have to stay focused for 8 minutes and not loose your cool.

 

[Musketeer04]

Ok, I'll try to be more patient and spam bombs more

 

[G-Dub]

http:// http://m.youtube.com/?reload=3&rdm=mc3dk876u

An old match but still a good one to watch for

 

[Musketeer04]

Link is broken

 

[Musketeer04]

Couldn't we pressure falco instead of camping him? By staying out of his jab and grab range so he can't spam lasers?

 

[WindMajor]

You'll get hit by phantasm.

 

[KT Kasrani]

i once was known as the falco slayer. ikno this MU like the back of my hand for playing xzax all the time and getting that DEHF practice. Xzax is the best falco vs TL from me and him playing ALL the time

falco wins this MU but TL has the tools to overcome him.

Camp him in the beginning of the match until about 30%to avoid the CG. like said a good way to approach falco is to jump and throw an angle boomerang down. also bomb pulled zair is a great approach for mixups and to just keep u safe with the bomb if u space wrong. try to keep falco near the ledge. this is where he is his worst at and he cant really do anything to a ledge camping tl. also dont autopilot ( a main reason why a lot of TL's do bad in really hard MU's). Another thing to pay attention to is the way the falco likes to phantasm across the stage. something i like to do is when a falco is at the ledge is run and act like im goin to attack then just jump back and shield and see how the falco reacts and gets back on the stage. most falcos are idiots tho and just phantasm across the stage on hopes no one knows how to punish.

ths is gonna be a really campy match so if ur approaching ur most likely doing it wrong. we beat falco in the camp game. he racks damage up faster but when it comes to getting the kill thats where falco is slacking in. we can just run away and keep racking up percent.

now i have invented some of the greatest gimps on falco. we can zair him at the ledge to dash attack to immediate grounded arrow to a ledge grab. works most of the time if timed right. MJG tried to tell me of a combo at 0% on falco which is dthrow > utilt > bair... from further analysis this dont work. xzax got out of it every time. and last but not least the oldest gimp that everyone forgets about. sit at the ledge and bait a dsmash at low percent. it works.


i was all over the place wit this write up but i hope it kinda helps

 

[Musketeer04]

i once was known as the falco slayer. ikno this MU like the back of my hand for playing xzax all the time and getting that DEHF practice. Xzax is the best falco vs TL from me and him playing ALL the time

falco wins this MU but TL has the tools to overcome him.

Camp him in the beginning of the match until about 30%to avoid the CG. like said a good way to approach falco is to jump and throw an angle boomerang down. also bomb pulled zair is a great approach for mixups and to just keep u safe with the bomb if u space wrong. try to keep falco near the ledge. this is where he is his worst at and he cant really do anything to a ledge camping tl. also dont autopilot ( a main reason why a lot of TL's do bad in really hard MU's). Another thing to pay attention to is the way the falco likes to phantasm across the stage. something i like to do is when a falco is at the ledge is run and act like im goin to attack then just jump back and shield and see how the falco reacts and gets back on the stage. most falcos are idiots tho and just phantasm across the stage on hopes no one knows how to punish.

ths is gonna be a really campy match so if ur approaching ur most likely doing it wrong. we beat falco in the camp game. he racks damage up faster but when it comes to getting the kill thats where falco is slacking in. we can just run away and keep racking up percent.

now i have invented some of the greatest gimps on falco. we can zair him at the ledge to dash attack to immediate grounded arrow to a ledge grab. works most of the time if timed right. MJG tried to tell me of a combo at 0% on falco which is dthrow > utilt > bair... from further analysis this dont work. xzax got out of it every time. and last but not least the oldest gimp that everyone forgets about. sit at the ledge and bait a dsmash at low percent. it works.


i was all over the place wit this write up but i hope it kinda helps

What is autopilot?

 

[WindMajor]

Playing on auto-pilot is when you are playing the game, but your attention and focus is somewhere else. Your mind is off doing other things, but your fingers are still there playing the game.

 

[KT Kasrani]

^^^ what he said. basically just playing without putting any thought process into what you are doing on the game.

this is easy to forget about with TL as we are jus throwing stuff and often find ourselves in a pattern

 

[MJG]

MJG tried to tell me of a combo at 0% on falco which is dthrow > utilt > bair... from further analysis this dont work. xzax got out of it every time.

[11/16/2012 3:51:21 PM] Tsuna/イノセント・ブルー: Against Falco, you can Dthrow Utilt from 0% - 13%.
[11/16/2012 3:51:31 PM | Edited 3:51:52 PM] Tsuna/イノセント・ブルー: thats what jash wrote in the tl boards
[11/16/2012 3:52:24 PM] Averil Morrisette II: ok

Jash said this. Not me.

EDIT: PJ is probably the best TL that I have seen play this MU. Unfortunately, he does not have any vids up for this MU


PJtoogood

Stages should probably be discussed next unless anyone has anything else to add.

 

[Musketeer04]

Jash said this. Not me.

EDIT: PJ is probably the best TL that I have seen play this MU. Unfortunately, he does not have any vids up for this MU


PJtoogood

Stages should probably be discussed next unless anyone has anything else to add.

What is your advice on this MU?

 

[WindMajor]

Speaking of UTilts, I'm almost sure that if you manage to catch Falco in a low% UTilt, you can follow it up with 2 more UTilts guaranteed before you have to follow it up with something.

Anyways, I kinda want to know all the moves that can break phantasm.

 

[Musketeer04]

Speaking of UTilts, I'm almost sure that if you manage to catch Falco in a low% UTilt, you can follow it up with 2 more UTilts guaranteed before you have to follow it up with something.

Anyways, I kinda want to know all the moves that can break phantasm.

If you do down throw>up-tilt Falco can shield your second up-tilt. But if not then you can continue with what you said.

 

[G-Dub]

KT pretty much summed up anything i was going to say, but a few situational things: if you get jabbed and your in the air, jump and Nair at the same time. This works especially well if the falco likes to jab cancel, or at low percents and is going for the jab>grab.
Try to not recover low because falcos Bair is just dumb. It will eat our upB and send us further from the stage; if you must, make sure you have a bomb in hand, and a rang out.
Bair>Bair>footstool Dair works at low percents and its pretty demoralizing (although is rare to get in that position)
DSmash on SV's platform near the blast zone at low percents is a insta-kill.
Tink has a DACUS too
I personally like to ledge-grab and force falco to phantasm onto the stage, and UAir as he does so. This is reliable as it is long-lasting, and will kill at a decent %
AND DONT JONES FOR THE KILL. Tink cant kill well, but neither can falco, jus keep camping (smart camping) watch you bomb pulls, and throw out that nair/bair at 170% (when safe of course)

 

[1PokeMastr]

Falco should never be caught by TLink's Dsmash in that situation AND your Dacus is pretty much useless, you'll get better results with Hyphen Smash.

You're right about the Ledge Grab, forcing him onstage -> Uair as he passes over. It's a huge pain for Falco since it forces him back above you ( Which is awful for Falco ). I would say to keep Falco away from platformed stages since they aid his Juggle ability.

This is a long and grueling Mu.

SO BORING.

 

[Musketeer04]

I find final destination better for me than battlefield for some reason. I can full hop throw bombs better at falco and he can't hide under the platforms.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm telling you guys, Lylat is awesome against Falco. The drunk piloting helps us against his laser game, works against his recovery, and gives us easy DSmash gimps. The size of the ship coupled with the amount and position of the platforms also gives us a huge helping hand. If you guys camp him vertically, it's significantly easier to fight him, lol.

 

[G-Dub]

I'm telling you guys, Lylat is awesome against Falco. The drunk piloting helps us against his laser game, works against his recovery, and gives us easy DSmash gimps. The size of the ship coupled with the amount and position of the platforms also gives us a huge helping hand. If you guys camp him vertically, it's significantly easier to fight him, lol.

Lylat is definitely the best starter to fight falco on imo. And camping the lower tilted side of the stage keeps you safe from lazers, and dsmash will take a stock every time. And phantasm will usually have massive landing lag, or will end far above stage and give tl easy punishes.

 

[KT Kasrani]

falcos would always ban lylat tho. its their worst stage

 

[G-Dub]

falcos would always ban lylat tho. its their worst stage

Lol. Thats a very good point. I personally like battlefield for this MU, and falco likes it. Tink can take a lot of good angles here and really zone well vs. falco while circle camping.
Lylat could be a very viable CP if not banned, and if so where would you suggest going?
And dont say smashville