New! Sonic Gameplay Footage, Buffs/Nerfs, Etc.

[Kinzer]

Excuse me; but, did anyone who got to play Sonic at the Best-Buy demo actively see if Spring recovery works similar to how it does in Brawl?

I mean to say: do you get more horizontal distance if you use an aerial (not Dair) or airdodge versus nothing?

 

[D-idara]

I personally think Sonic should've either got the Sonic Boost or the Lightspeed Dash as a sideB, some of us like Modern Sonic, you know?

 

[AzureKaze]

I personally think Sonic should've either got the Sonic Boost or the Lightspeed Dash as a sideB, some of us like Modern Sonic, you know?

What exactly would a boost have over the the role + kick?

 

[D-idara]

What exactly would a boost have over the the role + kick?

I dunno, perhaps you could activate it to make Sonic a moving hitbox while he runs for a few seconds. If anything, a Lightspeed Dash SideB where he shoots a string of rings and then dashes along them like Fox's SideB would be much cooler and versatile.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Excuse me; but, did anyone who got to play Sonic at the Best-Buy demo actively see if Spring recovery works similar to how it does in Brawl?

I mean to say: do you get more horizontal distance if you use an aerial (not Dair) or airdodge versus nothing?

For what i saw when i used spring i seeemed to work just like brawls with being able to gain horizontal distance. The spring also hit someone but kept falling afterwards but it didnt hit anyone else so not sure if the hitbox remains active or not to hit multiple times.

 

[Shariq]

I dunno, perhaps you could activate it to make Sonic a moving hitbox while he runs for a few seconds. If anything, a Lightspeed Dash SideB where he shoots a string of rings and then dashes along them like Fox's SideB would be much cooler and versatile.

I don't think there is any point in trying to discuss a potential replacement for Sonic's Side B. No offence to anyone but most people here seem to be completely ok with Sonic having two spin dashes. I don't know why. Most seem to argue that they are different moves because they both have a few different properties from each other. I still don't think that is enough to justify giving Sonic two moves which are practically the same thing.

 

[AzureKaze]

It's not even a spin dash, it's a spin attack, which is done by getting to high speed and then holding down in the games. It's useful for enemies you don't have much time to react to, and it's no different in Smash. You have sit and rev up the spin dash, whereas you can just go with the spin attack. They really aren't the same move.

 

[Shariq]

It's not even a spin dash, it's a spin attack, which is done by getting to high speed and then holding down in the games. It's useful for enemies you don't have much time to react to, and it's no different in Smash. You have sit and rev up the spin dash, whereas you can just go with the spin attack. They really aren't the same move.

You mean the spin "charge"? Anyway, again, its a minor difference. The properties for both moves can be merged into one single attack. Freeing up space to give Sonic a new and completely different move. But that's just my opinion.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

while i can understand why many see the need for two spin attacks unnecessary i do understand the merits of what each attack had. spin charge was overall greater as an offensive approach option with it's ability to cancel when it hit the ground and how well it hit while airborne. Spin dash on the other hand had much greater defensive options with being able to cancel it wile charging as well as it's small windw kn invincibility during the hop.

Many who experimented with sonic in brawl heavily came to see that both moves had pretty distinct difference even though they aren't apparent at face value. It's for his reason that many veteran brawl sonic mains are accepting of him retaining these moves in smash 4 (although spin charges approach options are currently now reduced due to the removal of canceling it).

While i'm definitely not upset over him retaining both spin attacks i definitely would've enjoyed a new special (particularly what i suggested in a earlier post, either; light speed attack from Sonic Adventure, or the bounce attack from Sonic Adventure 2).

though whos to say that they haven't changed one of his specials yet, as E3 demos are usually developed 2-4 months before E3 to ensure that whats to be shown is currently in working condition. For all we know sonic's aerial spin charge could now be shield cancelable agaiin or he could've recieved a new special entirely (granted the latter seems less likely its still possible). I'm willing to remain optimistic about sonic's overall buffs this time around especially given that they actually have time to improve sonic as opposed to rushing him into the game.

My only other real hope is that when characters bounce off sonic's spring they can't immediately react out of the jump for a bit similar to sonic this way it can become a viable trap that we can use for setups especially now that they can jump with us when we go to use the spring while airborne.

 

[Shariq]

while i can understand why many see the need for two spin attacks unnecessary i do understand the merits of what each attack had. spin charge was overall greater as an offensive approach option with it's ability to cancel when it hit the ground and how well it hit while airborne. Spin dash on the other hand had much greater defensive options with being able to cancel it wile charging as well as it's small windw kn invincibility during the hop.

Many who experimented with sonic in brawl heavily came to see that both moves had pretty distinct difference even though they aren't apparent at face value. It's for his reason that many veteran brawl sonic mains are accepting of him retaining these moves in smash 4 (although spin charges approach options are currently now reduced due to the removal of canceling it).

While i'm definitely not upset over him retaining both spin attacks i definitely would've enjoyed a new special (particularly what i suggested in a earlier post, either; light speed attack from Sonic Adventure, or the bounce attack from Sonic Adventure 2).

though whos to say that they haven't changed one of his specials yet, as E3 demos are usually developed 2-4 months before E3 to ensure that whats to be shown is currently in working condition. For all we know sonic's aerial spin charge could now be shield cancelable agaiin or he could've recieved a new special entirely (granted the latter seems less likely its still possible). I'm willing to remain optimistic about sonic's overall buffs this time around especially given that they actually have time to improve sonic as opposed to rushing him into the game.

My only other real hope is that when characters bounce off sonic's spring they can't immediately react out of the jump for a bit similar to sonic this way it can become a viable trap that we can use for setups especially now that they can jump with us when we go to use the spring while airborne.

That is pretty much how I feel. I am not angry or upset that he has both spin attacks, I just would've preferred to see a new special. Besides that, one other thing I hope they change is his homing attack. It does seem faster now but it still seems to lock on to targets the same way it did in Brawl. Plus from the footage I have seen of Sonic, it seems ridiculously easy to kill yourself off the sides with the homing attack. As I saw some people ran after their opponents off stage and tried to hit them with the HA yet they end up missing end instantly SD'ing from the sides of the stage. That rarely happened to me in Brawl.

 

[B.A.M.]

Im pretty sure you can still b reverse homing attack and not SD while using it to recover. Honestly Sonic plays like a dream in this game. I dont even care we lost ASC due to the speed of our new spins. I was also able to combo multiple SH fairs and even fair into uair dj uair spring uair (hoping my trademark fair>first hit uair>utilt/ftilt/dtilt>stuff is intact as itll be a stronger string in Smash4). his dash attack is much better ( tired of getting punished for landing a hit) and dsmash is welcomed addition though i will miss the the aerial frame traps with brawl dsmash. Plus with the addition of little SDI is basically all the tweaks Sonic needed to be a high tier character.

Im a huge HA fan and the added hitstun + shorter HA start up allows for some very interesting strings. I think this along with spring and side b snapping will make Sonic a gimping beast. im really interested in seeing what we all can come up with when the time comes. Sonic just seems to have even more freedom of movement with his new spins ( im soo happy about this new side b, the pressure is going to be so real). Anyone confirm if his side b still has invincibility frames? keeping my fingers crossed.

Run pivot cancels benefit us greatly for obvious reasons as well. Im wondering if meaty dash attack will combo into spring uair due to its new trajectory. I had way too much fun at that Best Buy Event. I really do feel sonic is going to be insane. Dash dance pivot is even sexier in this game too. I think its an easier input as well. New age of Sonic; Im ready for it

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Did anyone test out that new Pivot Tilt out of a run (there has to be a better name for this...)?

All I can picture atm is Sonic running full pelt and sliding around the stage doing pivot F tilts like it's nobody's business lol

 

[Anthinus]

Did anyone test out that new Pivot Tilt out of a run (there has to be a better name for this...)?

All I can picture atm is Sonic running full pelt and sliding around the stage doing pivot F tilts like it's nobody's business lol

People from Smash Italia named it Turnaround Cancel and they did a vid about it. Here it is:

Turnaround Cancel (TC) will boost Sonic's game a lot, no doubt. Smash Italia confirmed that you can TC DSmash too.
I really want that TC stays in the final version of the game.

EDIT: BTW, remember to enable subtitles... In case you don't speak italian

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ah yes thanks - I have seen that video but I completely glazed over the fact they'd given it a name lol

Is there a video of Sonic doing this? I'm curious as to whether the slide that happens when performing this technique is different for different characters

 

[Anthinus]

Ah yes thanks - I have seen that video but I completely glazed over the fact they'd given it a name lol

Is there a video of Sonic doing this? I'm curious as to whether the slide that happens when performing this technique is different for different characters

I don't remember seeing Sonic doing TC yet. I'll check some vids at night.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People from Smash Italia named it Turnaround Cancel and they did a vid about it. Here it is:

Turnaround Cancel (TC) will boost Sonic's game a lot, no doubt. Smash Italia confirmed that you can TC DSmash too.
I really want that TC stays in the final version of the game.

EDIT: BTW, remember to enable subtitles... In case you don't speak italian

That is actually really great.

 

[Shariq]

Im pretty sure you can still b reverse homing attack and not SD while using it to recover. Honestly Sonic plays like a dream in this game. I dont even care we lost ASC due to the speed of our new spins. I was also able to combo multiple SH fairs and even fair into uair dj uair spring uair (hoping my trademark fair>first hit uair>utilt/ftilt/dtilt>stuff is intact as itll be a stronger string in Smash4). his dash attack is much better ( tired of getting punished for landing a hit) and dsmash is welcomed addition though i will miss the the aerial frame traps with brawl dsmash. Plus with the addition of little SDI is basically all the tweaks Sonic needed to be a high tier character.

Im a huge HA fan and the added hitstun + shorter HA start up allows for some very interesting strings. I think this along with spring and side b snapping will make Sonic a gimping beast. im really interested in seeing what we all can come up with when the time comes. Sonic just seems to have even more freedom of movement with his new spins ( im soo happy about this new side b, the pressure is going to be so real). Anyone confirm if his side b still has invincibility frames? keeping my fingers crossed.

Run pivot cancels benefit us greatly for obvious reasons as well. Im wondering if meaty dash attack will combo into spring uair due to its new trajectory. I had way too much fun at that Best Buy Event. I really do feel sonic is going to be insane. Dash dance pivot is even sexier in this game too. I think its an easier input as well. New age of Sonic; Im ready for it

Damn dude. The way you wrote about Sonic here has me so hyped to play him. I will pursue my dream of being the number 1 Sonic main in the world

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

I think of every my favorite thing for Sonic at the moment is the tweaks to Side B. Looking forward to someone playing him at SDCC on the 3DS. Hopefully during the live stream. More videos would be nice.

 

[Camalange]

God I hope NYCC has a 3DS Smash tourney like SDCC. I'm gonna be so pissed.

 

[infomon]

noooo then I would have to go to a comiccon

 

[Camalange]

yessss

 

[Anthinus]

I watched some vids searching for Turnaround Cancel on Sonic. But well, I guess is kind of difficult to find someone that randomly inputs the tech.

Players that are used to Sonic often Screech Stops then buffer attacks... So I found nothing about TC. If someone is assisting ComicCon please remember to test Turnaround Cancel with Sawnik

 

[B.A.M.]

Already tested it at best buy; independently found it while testing dash tech. Remember you can do anything you would be able to do from neutral. Dash dance pivot looks pretty good.

I will be going to Comic Con forthe tournament so let me know if theres anything you guys want tested. Right now Im looking at testing the following some more:

- side b tech
-dsmash KO power
- dash tech
- dash attack setups
- ftilt, dtilt follow ups
- HA

anything else?

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Good luck when you go. I'd like to see some more insight on the Dair.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Please test the following

• Dair meteor smash. If we can figure out how to land it consistently. Sonic's edgeguard and offensive game will sky rocket.
• Usmash and Utilts KO power needs testing. I saw in a video it KO'd link at 110 and all hits had connected although it was slightly charged.
• Any buffs to Nair
• If Spring's hitbox lingers after it hits someone (it continues to fall when it hits someone but not sure if the hitbox stays active). If it can hit more than one person we could have a very good tool for edge gaurding the Ice Climbers or people in Doubles if two opponents are offstage at the same time.
• Pivot Grab range (if boost pivot grabbing is back does sonic's go any farther now?)
• Spin dash footstool to jablock (i had remember seeing mario perform what looked like a jab reset like in melee on link during the smash direct on the boxing stage when he hit him with the fire bar)
• Does sonic go into special fall from getting grabbed from Up-B still?
• Spring Trap setups (ie setting up spring as your opponent lands so they bounce up with you allowing for a potential follow-up and potentially a Dair meteor spike)

 

[Anthinus]

Already tested it at best buy; independently found it while testing dash tech. Remember you can do anything you would be able to do from neutral. Dash dance pivot looks pretty good.

I will be going to Comic Con forthe tournament so let me know if theres anything you guys want tested. Right now Im looking at testing the following some more:

- side b tech
-dsmash KO power
- dash tech
- dash attack setups
- ftilt, dtilt follow ups
- HA

anything else?

If you could test all of that I'll be very pleased. I'd only add 2 things:

1) If DAir off stage is viable. Specially running off the edge then immediately DAir and asap DJ + UpB to recover.
2) DThrow tech chase options. But probably is easier to test after launch.

If you could test #1 for me, I'd really appreciate it

 

[infomon]

Yeah, Anthinus' #1 would be very interesting.

Also: Can you spring or homing-attack immediately out of an SDJ? like without jumping-out first...

 

[Camalange]

I don't know if anyone said it yet, but if there's anyway to test with another person if Sonic's dthrow can still be teched, that'd be great too.

In addition to what else was said.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

I saw one Sonic match from the live stream though unfortunately he wasn't able to do much due to the Bowser taking up majority of the space. Hopefully there will be some more game play today with Sonic in it.

Edit: Here is the Sonic match. Its at 4:53:51

 

[Camalange]

Hey, Usmash actually kept Bowser in all the hits AND killed him.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I would love to test if one can set up a "Spring-Pillaring" scenario.

By this I mean leaving a spring on the ground, then throwing the opponent it, and somehow Dair towards the spring over and over.

This should, if pulled off, spike the opponent toward the spring, and hopefully, allow multiple dairs until the Spring vanishes. :D

It's crazy, but it'd be awesome if it were possible.

 

[B.A.M.]

SDI is harder so Usmash has become far more viable as a move.


After my time with Sonic in Smash 4 I would say he is definitely leagues about his Brawl counterpart. The dair was as viable as a side spike we got from dair in brawl. Needless to say dair spiking isnt as viable of an option as I wouldve hoped. Also Homing attack has a greatly improved lock on system seems a bit faster but can only be used once in the air.

Our Dsmash and Usmash are bueno and our fsmash stayed virtually the same; HOWEVER due to the new edgeguarding mechanics once you hit an opponent off shortly after the grab the ledge, they will ledge snap with little to no invincibility. This is HUGE because it basically equates to them being stuck in a ledge grab state to the tune of 20 frames ( if its like brawl) in which they are COMPLETELY susceptible to any attack, be it dair or more importantly down tilted fsmash.

Our Spin game isnt as safe as it once was due to the loss of ASCSC; this Sonic is definitely of the old school run based style we used to enjoy during the earlier days of brawl which I think is really nice.

One other thing I would like to mention is that our nair seems to have a slightly larger hitbox and most importantly has a spine aura which makes our spin game more ambiguous. We do have interesting ranges of attack with how side b works but again attacks snuff out our spins as usual. They are quite fast though.

All in all Sonic in comparison to the other demo characters is very very good. Where he will land when its all said and done is I cant say for certain. I wouldnt be surprised to see him end up being a high tier character. His two greatest weakness imo were killing and SDI both of which have been somewhat dealt with. he also retains a strong punishment game. Winning Steaks will be a reality.

 

[Camalange]

I had a thought about Sonic's new SideB snap and the game's new ledge mechanics.

If you haven't already pieced together the idea from that sentence, I'm interested to see if we can do some creative things to steal the ledge with SideB.

It's insane to try to speculate how these ledge changes will actually play out in the metagame and what benefits/downsides will result from it, but it's interesting to me that Sonic now has a move that exerts a hitbox and grabs the ledge. It may be worse than just straight up letting Sonic grab the ledge. I have no idea. I'm just loltheorycraftinglol here.

 

[B.A.M.]

As far as I saw and my own theorycrafting it doesnt seem like it will be as potent as we would hope it to be in terms of the ledge mechanics. It will be nice versus mistimed ledge drop aerials from the opponent, thats pretty much it.

 

[Skyfox2000]

How much damage does his f-air do now?

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

just curious but were any sonics able to successfully dair meteor smash someone?

 

[Virum]

just curious but were any sonics able to successfully dair meteor smash someone?

I saw someone get it off yesterday vs a Samus. It actually traded with Samus' Up B and they both ended up dying (Sonic was star KO'd whilst Samus was meteored).

 

[Camalange]

That's interesting to note.

Especially Samus's UpB having KO power lol.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

glad to know that it wasn't removed. Though i'll be making it my job to master utilizing his meteor smash to the fullest as that was something he really needed (atleast i feel he did) in brawl to keep up with higher tier characters.

 

[Anthinus]

glad to know that it wasn't removed. Though i'll be making it my job to master utilizing his meteor smash to the fullest as that was something he really needed (atleast i feel he did) in brawl to keep up with higher tier characters.

I've played a lot with DAir. In fact is my favorite move from Sonic's moveset. The spike/meteor added to DAir will be difficult to do, no doubt.

IMO edgeguarding will be the most consistent way to do it: Timing the opponent's UpB/SideB then running off stage + DAir should work (as it did in Brawl, but this time spiking). The opponent will be doomed if Sonic can footstool + spring them afterwards.

EDIT: Chasing the opponet off stage with DownB and timing DAir when the opponent is double jumping to recover could be another good way to pull it off.