New! Sonic Gameplay Footage, Buffs/Nerfs, Etc.

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I managed to land it while playing one of my friends on the 3DS and it hits better than Dsmash in brawl and has better startup. The horizontal trajectory is also nice though it didn't kill at 89% but it almost did not sure if it was because of gerudo valley's blast line or not. Could't really tell how big they were.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

It sounds better than the old d-smash already, which is good to hear. Sonic seems to have received tiny buffs in a lot of areas. He doesn't sound overly amazing by any means, but he seems more viable than he was in Brawl at the moment.

 

[infomon]

Just got back from the NY Long Island BB. I played two 1v1's on the 3DS, and two free-for-all's on the WiiU.

Overall gameplay / speed:

Characters overall feel a touch faster on the ground, and faster at moving vertically, but slower horizontall in the air. This makes the air less "safe"; it feels more like a battle for stage-ground control. Consequently I expect less "floaty" gameplay; if you're in the air, you're a bit more committed. I think this will be great.

However, the way that aerial-gameplay was "nerfed" is by adding massive lag as a "punishment" for using air-attacks or airdodges when you land on the ground. If you airdodge into the ground, you suffer huuuge lag! But same with attacks! This makes the air much less safe, but also means that the game can look really slow if players land like this. We'll learn not to, and find ways around it. But if the lag stays this extreme, it almost makes me wish for L-cancelling, even though I think L-cancelling is dumb. I really hope the Nintendo team speeds up the gameplay, and gives less landing lag for aerials.

Sonic-specific:
Sonic can short-hop (SH) Fairs and Bairs. But if you short-hop fast-fall (SHFF) them, it's maaasssive lag. This makes SHFF Bair as sad as the flop-like-a-fish SHFF Fair we all know from Brawl. Flop-like-a-fish Fair is also in smash4. Do not aerial into the ground in this game, ever.

SDJ:
If you're charging a side-B and hit Jump, you go into a VSDJ: Vertical Spin-Dash Jump. VSDJ is amazing in smash4. I don't know if the side-B version is different than the down-B version, so I'm just talking about the side-B now. Even if you start it vertically, you have more aerial control over it than in Brawl, so a VSDJ seems to give just as much of an "arc" as the regular SDJ. Consequently, I think we can just call it SDJ now.

Here's the thing: SDJ doesn't end in the air. You can just keep bouncing SDJ's without ending the spindash! I was making smooth parabolic arcs like a full SDJ but just never ending, back+forth+back, and Sonic was just a cool blue ball. It felt a lot like repeatedly jumping around in Sonic2. I think I was just holding down B the whole time, while using X to jump as I landed each time. But when I let go on the ground, Sonic did the SD hop and zoomed forward in a spindash! Like, it keeps the charge ready to go. So you can SDJ a few times then spindash forward in an attack. Amazing!

I've said that Sonic's horizontal aerial mobility is super-slow. But not in SDJ -- you have more manoeuverability in the SDJ! You can start an SDJ in one direction but then arc it backwards instead.

If the side-B (SpinDash = SD) SDJ is different than the down-B (SpinCharge = SC) jump, then we might have to refer to them as SDJ vs. SCJ. The "aura" of SD vs. SC is so visibly different in smash4 that we'll have an easier time distinguishing them.

I don't think you can fastfall the SDJ like you can in Brawl.

Spindashes (rolling):

Except for the lack of ASC shield-cancelling, spindashes are much improved. The spindashes seem to multi-hit easier, and when you land the hits, Sonic stops the spindash and returns to neutral quickly, making it super-easy to combo out of them. They have less knockback in the air as well so it's suuuuper easy to get those follow-up attacks. Fantastic.

Secondly, the side-B trajectory is truly fast and wonderful, and edge-grabs. Love.

Unfortunately, the spindashes do remember Sonic's "jump data", and I saw casuals self-destruct because of it. Sad. That was the stupidest thing about BrawlSonic, I'm so confused why they would keep that. What I mean is if you double-jump and then spindash onto the ground, when you SDJ or roll off a platform, your double-jump is still gone. Meaning people fall off the edge and die, and get frustrated because they don't know why they couldn't jump out of the spindash.

Homing-Attack:

Definitely improved, but it's probably still near-useless unless you can combo into it. If it doesn't lock-on, you still get the down-angle bounce-off-the-ground effect. If the HA lands a hit, there was one time when I was able to HA again reeeally quickly after, the way you can in a modern Sonic game. So I'm hoping that HA has very low ending lag if it hits, but I mistimed it the second time I tried to confirm that.

 

[Camalange]

I tried landing dsmashes today and I think the startup is relatively quick, but the range isn't as super. However, sort of gets balanced out since it hits both sides at once now and I was able to use it to punish rolls without having to fully commit, like say with fsmash. I think I prefer this dsmash.

Overall gameplay / speed:

• This is the vibe I got from the game too. It's odd because it feels faster, yet certain aspects make it feel slower.

Sonic-specific:

• The idea of not being able to SHFF Bair saddens me, because that's my entire metagame.
• I wasn't really able to dig too deep into comprehension of his spindashes yet, so thank you for writing this out.
• I noticed everything you said about homing attack as well. I'm like fully convinced that if connects it has extremely less landing lag and you can react out of it. Pretty rad. I think even if it whiffs the lag isn't as bad as Brawl's either.

These bullet points make me look like I'm contributing more, but really I'm pretty much just cosigning to things you've said.

 

[infomon]

Seriously SDJ is amazing. You just bounce around as a ball all day, and then whenever you want... just spindash out of it. Wheeeeee!

 

[Espy Rose]

Do you have a hitbox when you jump?

I also hope that people realize as of now, and until it changes/doesn't change, that with sideB, Sonic has a reliable way to the ground without causing lag (it still has the invincibility in the hop).

 

[Anthinus]

In the second vid, from 1:01 to 1:05 you did what I was wanting to see... SH lagless Fair!... Fair > Utilt made my day. Thanks! <3

 

[Demon-oni]

2 questions about spin dash now that we got some data.

1. Can you double jump while in SDJ and retain charge-state? Since you said you could just hold it down the whole time I'm curious.

2.After landing from SDJ and if you still retain charge, are you able to change your direction to spin dash toward or are you stuck with your original side b direction?

Over all sounds really nice. I REALLY want to check out how HA works now when the game comes out because that sounds amazing if he really can follow up from it on contact. Thanks for the info.

 

[infomon]

1. Can you double jump while in SDJ and retain charge-state? Since you said you could just hold it down the whole time I'm curious.

Yes I think you're just hopping around with whatever charge-state you started with, you just haven't launched it yet. Not sure though, and it might be different between down-B and side-B.

2.After landing from SDJ and if you still retain charge, are you able to change your direction to spin dash toward or are you stuck with your original side b direction?

I think during the SDJ's you're still facing in the direction you started, so if you release the spindash then it will be in that original direction. It would be awesome if you could turnaround-B when you launch, but I think definitely not.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

i got a total of 5 matches(3 on the 3DS 2 with sonic and 1 with greninja and 2 on the wii u all sonic) in on wednesday so i'm satisfied to some extent. though i hate how it was managed. You would think when they label it a "smash-fest" that they would understand the need for multiple demo kiosks as they should be well aware of the amount of people who are going to showup to these things.

You should be so punished. At least you got a demo at all...

 

[WedginatorX]

In the second vid, from 1:01 to 1:05 you did what I was wanting to see... SH lagless Fair!... Fair > Utilt made my day. Thanks! <3

Yeah the SH lagless fair is gonna be my new go to pressure move now that i can't shff bair anymore. Although regular SH bair is still gonna be really good especially with proper spacing.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i also believe SHFF uair works similar to how it did in brawl. though did anyone try out Nair to see if it hit harder?

 

[Espy Rose]

Screw you for ignoring my question, infzy.

 

[Kuraudo]

Well it's been fun guys. I don't know who I'll end up maining when Smash 4 comes out, but I know that Sonic will be a good start for me, just as he was in Brawl.

One thing's going to be different this time though. I'm not going to let my character choices slow me down from becoming a top level player this time. If Sonic's good but I also can use another character to push me to the top that I feel I personally like? I'll do it. Guess what I'm saying here is that while it was fun competing for a title as a top Sonic player in the past, I'm going the extra step to become a top player.

With the demo at a close, I'll be seeing you guys later! When Smash 4 hits, I'm going in.

 

[infomon]

Screw you for ignoring my question, infzy.

Do you have a hitbox when you jump?

sorry, I was going to try to find proof that the SDJ itself has a hitbox, but I'm 99% sure it's the same as brawl (hitbox in SDJ, maybe it lasts throughout the whole SDJ this time which would be nice) (no hitbox on sonic's regular jump / double jump that would be too lolz)

 

[Camalange]

I feel you on that one, Kuraudo. I already know I'll be playing Sonic. It's in my blood. The spike in activity on this forum proved that to me... I can't escape it... But I also don't want to limit myself if that becomes the case. I'm going to learn more characters early on and really experiment. To not only be a top Sonic, but a top player too.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i'll just aim to do both and be a top player using Sonic, regardless of his viability. As unlike last time their is such a thing as balance patching that could be done if certain characters get out of hand, though that could also apply to sonic so it's a double edged sword in a way.

 

[Camalange]

There's still no 100% confirmation that there will be balance patches. We just have the capability of doing so now.

And obviously I'll aim to be the best with Sonic, but especially with the heightened roster and exciting new additions, I'd be doing myself an injustice by not maxing out with more than one character. Not that I didn't learn virtually ever character in Brawl, I just never tried competing with anyone other than Sonic. I've put in work against people with other characters in friendlies and such at tournaments, so I always sort of wondered how I'd have placed if I stepped up my counterpick game. But again, we'll see. I say this now but I'll get the game and just be like sonicsonicsonicsonicsonic

I'm gonna be the world's best Sonic x Pac-Man player, lol. They will call me the Third Party Hero.

 

[XLR8TION]

hmm I just know sonic can definitely benefit from the removal of SDI

 

[Shariq]

hmm I just know sonic can definitely benefit from the removal of SDI

While that is true. We don't know if it is truly gone yet. Remember this is just a demo of a work in progress.

 

[Demon-oni]

Honestly, it wouldn't be bad to lose a majority of SDI. True, some moves are gonna be retardedly good, but most were situational/useless with SDI. I won't hate it completely but I won't count it out yet until the game is in hand.

 

[Skyfox2000]

How is Sonic new down-smash. Can he edge guard with it?

 

[XLR8TION]

While that is true. We don't know if it is truly gone yet. Remember this is just a demo of a work in progress.

Indeed true.

 

[AzureKaze]

Sonic is looking good so far. Also dat alternate skin with the white shoes looks great!

 

[Shariq]

I am just annoyed by the fact that they are taking almost no inspiration from Sonic Battle. I mean its a fighting game on the Gameboy Advance. Plus these days "Sonic Boost" is very prevalent. That could also be implemented into his moveset. These moves could really help him have a more varied moveset yet they ignore them. Pretty much most of his moves are from Sonic the Fighters.

EDIT: I also really want the Sonic Riders costume. How cool would that be, the sunglasses, the new shoes and he could even have the Ark of the Cosmos on his wrist!

 

[Espy Rose]

Why should they use it? Sonic Battle didn't do much for Sega and was forgotten incredibly soon after by the majority of the gaming community. Some don't even know that it even existed.

I know it'd be a good tool for moveset ideas, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with the moveset he has now. No need to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Shariq]

Why should they use it? Sonic Battle didn't do much for Sega and was forgotten incredibly soon after by the majority of the gaming community. Some don't even know that it even existed.

I know it'd be a good tool for moveset ideas, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with the moveset he has now. No need to fix something that isn't broken.

I know what you mean. But then why use Sonic the Fighters. All I'm saying is he simply has a pretty bland moveset in my opinion. A couple new moves could really make it feel more fresh and varied. At least implement the boost.

 

[Espy Rose]

I could be wrong, but I like to believe that Sonic the Fighters had a much larger scope of influence than anything Sonic Battle did. Even if it's also a game that most don't know about, it'd still have precedence in that it actually had the first template for Sonic to work off of.

I don't think Sonic's moveset is bland though. I find it pretty dedicated/committed towards the origins of Sonic and his games.

The original Sonic the Hedgehog game used only one button. I think its simple yet exhilarating play was its virtue.

And given that this game’s controls are also simple, I think it personifies his distinct characteristics.

Sakurai said this the day after Sonic was confirmed in Brawl. With that in mind, I find Sonic's moveset to be incredibly loyal to the quartet of games that made Sonic such a huge star in the 1990s. I wouldn't want it changed for anything else.

 

[Shariq]

I could be wrong, but I like to believe that Sonic the Fighters had a much larger scope of influence than anything Sonic Battle did. Even if it's also a game that most don't know about, it'd still have precedence in that it actually had the first template for Sonic to work off of.

I don't think Sonic's moveset is bland though. I find it pretty dedicated/committed towards the origins of Sonic and his games.



Sakurai said this the day after Sonic was confirmed in Brawl. With that in mind, I find Sonic's moveset to be incredibly loyal to the quartet of games that made Sonic such a huge star in the 1990s. I wouldn't want it changed for anything else.

Do you at least consider adding the boost as a move for Sonic a good idea? Imagine the possibilities in terms of combo's. Also it's one that makes complete sense. The boost in a staple move of Sonic, almost more of a staple than the spin dash these days.

 

[Camalange]

From a typical standpoint, it seems lazy to make two of his specials just different styles of spindash. The DownB is most true to his actual spindash, whereas SideB is just like... Oh. From a competitive standpoint, I'm sort of glad they kept the SideB spindash though because now DownB can't be shield canceled and SideB still can... Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the spindash over the boost. Sonic turning into a ball is more iconic than Sonic just running faster with aura around him.

And that's kind of the issue at hand anyway. Let's face it. At Sonic's core, he is a blue hedgehog that is known for running fast and turning into a ball. That is what Sonic does in Smash. Everything else is design preference.

Sonic isn't about using Color powers, or turning into a "werehog", or whatever other game we could reference. As much as I love Sonic Battle, and visually it'd be cooler to have Sonic's attacks have more breakdancing and less turning into a ball... Sonic felt like Sonic to me in Brawl, and I'd much prefer an improvement on his moveset instead of sullying him with references.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I'd rather remove the over B or Down B and replace them with a modern ability; I know its blasphemy; like Laser from the Color games.
Being able to zap through someone for a quick would be good.


Edit: I need to update my avatar

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

The only move i really wish sonic had was the bounce attack from Sonic adventure 2 for his down B. though that could end up as a move he does in his custom specials. I just personally feel sakurai didn't try as hard with sonic as he did with megaman or pacman. I mean with pacman he went so far as to draw from utilizing his fruit for attacks while sonic i feel has even more of a moveset to choose from but didn't due to lack of awareness of potential moves. I love his brawl moveset thanks to how vertasile it allowed sonic's approach options to be but now that Spin charge has been nerfed it's going to seem far less useful compared to spin dash now.

Another move they also could have given him was the light attack from the adventure games and it could have functioned like you charge up the move and once it's fully charged you could move around and if you get hit while fully charged it would release and function in a similar way to a counter.

But either way i'm excited to see how sonic turns out. Just i always feel like he gets ignored far more than any other characters, simply because people find his move set at face value, far to one dimensional.

 

[AzureKaze]

I really don't see a need for a boost. The Spin Dash is iconic, and serves as an actual attack that can be used for combo-ing. The boost would just let Sonic run into people.... It's not much of an attack. The only thing I feel needs to be improved is the Homing Attack. It's his most powerful move in his games. It should do a good deal of damage, but have little knock back for a trade off or something.

 

[Espy Rose]

From a typical standpoint, it seems lazy to make two of his specials just different styles of spindash.

Sonic had two different styles of spindash in the old Sonic games as well. You can call it lazy, but I call it faithful.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic had two different styles of spindash in the old Sonic games as well. You can call it lazy, but I call it faithful.

I said from a typical standpoint it seems lazy.

Be faithful to my original text.

Edit: I need to update my avatar

I like all the pixels though.

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

I'm not digging the new D-smash. While I appreciate a decently quick kill move, that's what F-smash should have been. Now they took away what could have been an interesting combo starter with semi-evasive properties and kept one of his worst moves.

 

[SmashWolf]

With pivoting Sonic's F-smash could come a long way used at the right time. Besides, it's not like Sonic hasn't gotten enough combo starters as is. I'm just happy we get a new Sonic move that DOESN't use the boring ball animation. Still, Sonic's new downsmash just barely doesn't kill Bowser at 131%....

 

[Kuraudo]

To be fair, they did take SOME inspiration from Sonic Battle. His Down Air is the same as his one from Sonic Battle, for one. Little touch-ups here and there are great, but otherwise he's just fine.

The style he shows in PM off his Homing Attack is the ONE thing that I like about PM Sonic. That's about it. His FAir is cool too, but otherwise he's perfectly fine.

 

[Camalange]

The style he shows in PM off his Homing Attack is the ONE thing that I like about PM Sonic.

Agreed.

 

[AzureKaze]

Sonic's N-air in PM is also great.