Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
-
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New Smash Bros for WiiU
- Thread starter Isatis
- Start date
- Status
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
I'm not GAY!! WTF!!!
Conviction
Human Nature
Well damn. That leaves. Thino, Sonic Master, Opelucid, Smashchu, Auratic, and ---
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
and Oasis 
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
What novel? I don't feel like going back and searching through this.
Btw Thino, it's Thursday, not Friday yet.
Btw Thino, it's Thursday, not Friday yet.
Oasis_S
Smash Legend
You asked for it to stop, but then kept the gay train rolling? It can't be helped, I suppose. Everyone has surely been infected by the gay disease by now.
Opelucid
Smash Lord
I'm not gay crap I'll be right back I have to work on two summer reading reports...
Conviction
Human Nature
Word, Opelucid is right!
I need to start my summer reading reports.
I need to start my summer reading reports.
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
It's friday! Not thursday.
@Oasis: That's why we all need to admit that we are not gay or else it proves we are a Peach boards clone. I can tolerate derp but not gaaay.
@Oasis: That's why we all need to admit that we are not gay or else it proves we are a Peach boards clone. I can tolerate derp but not gaaay.
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
School has started?
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
For me. YES
I think we forgot about Victini
I think we forgot about Victini
Cloud Cleaver
Smash Journeyman
Reposting with multiple collapses, per request.
Brawl Characters that Should be Axed
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Toon Link - Zelda has SO many more characters to choose from, even from its cell-shaded alternate timeline, that there is NO reason to keep two versions of the same guy. I love playing as the sailing swordsman, but he's just gotta go.
Jigglypuff - It's moveset is bland, it no longer has much usefulness, it's hideously unpopular in America, it doesn't count as a female towards diversity since its gender can go either way, and it's very upstaged by many of the newer pokemon. It will probably be kept due to veterancy and Japanese popularity, but I really think it should go.[/COLLAPSE]
Brawl Characters that Need Serious Moveset Refactoring
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Ganondorf - Honestly, there is no excuse for the King of Evil to remain a fat Falcon clone. Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, AND Ocarina of Time have all given him prowess with a sword, and that needs to be executed to give him a different moveset. It would also make him significantly cooler, and bring a more interesting dynamic to the Link vs Ganondorf matchup.
Lucas - Earthbound needs its second rep, and while I'd prefer to see someone more interesting (like Paula) take his place, Lucas could remain usable if they would just change his special moves, final smash, and forward smash. Earthbound, from what I understand, had a lot of different abilities, so maintaining his excessive similarity to Ness hurts him.
Sonic - (Yes, he needs to be kept in, because it would disappoint a lot of people otherwise) Sonic's moveset was rushed, and it shows. Most of his attacks are "borrowed" from other animations, and three of his four specials involve "curl into a ball and move really fast." He needs some fixing to make him fun to play.
Wario - Sorry, the fart is juvenile. I, for one, would like to see a return to the pre-WarioWare days, when the fat man was actually kind of cool instead of a source of potty humor. His old suplexes and piledrivers, crazy strength, and more serious attributes would be a great counterpoint to Mario.
Wolf - Like Sonic, his moveset was rushed and copy-pasted. I'd love to see them change ALL of his specials except the blaster, and that Landmaster has to go in favor of a Wolfen. Wolf needs to stay, as he's a very popular series villain, but he needs to be brought up to par and decloned.
Falco - *sigh* I love playing him as is, but his specials are still too similar to Fox. Definitely change his final smash (an arwing or Great Fox would do the job), and I would recommend changing his up-B and down-B entirely. Face it, Fire Bird sucks anyway, and after its changes from Melee, the Reflector isn't nearly what it could be. I'd prefer to keep the Phantasm, but that may have to go too. I wouldn't change his blaster though; all the Star Fox cast should have a laser projectile for consistency (see Krystal in the Newcomers section).
Ike - His final smash should be changed to reflect that endgame cutscene from Radiant Dawn, where Yune empowers him with blue flames to strike down Ashera. They may also want to change Counter to another skill from FE10, but that may be a keeper since all the FE characters have had it to date.
Luigi - I would change his Down B to the Poltergust 3000. Unlike the rest of the cast, Luigi is SUPPOSED to be clone-ish, and this would better reflect the FLUDD that Mario has. His final smash also needs work...[/COLLAPSE]
Potential Newcomers
[COLLAPSE="Show"](yes, I know the chances of all of these getting in are slim, but if even half of these get in I'd be a happy clam)
Mega Man: He should've been in Brawl, and he needs to be in now. They'll just need to be REALLY careful about making him too similar to Samus, what with the charging arm-gun and all. His slide would make a nice down special, and combinations of Rush and his alternate beam weapons would add a lot to his moveset.
King K. Rool: As has been said, we need more villains, and this delivers well. His crown-bowling technique from DKC's boss fight on the SNES would make a great B move!
Dixie Kong: I feel that Donkey Kong is old enough and popular enough to warrant a second newcomer, especially with a new "classic-styled" release, DK Returns. Dixie's hair-floating would be a very novel addition, not to mention she's a female to diversify the cast a bit.
Ridley: He is SO cool, and Metroid is hideously under-represented. His size is really a non-issue; if they can scale down Bowser and Charizard for Brawl, they can do it with Ridley.
Another Metroid Character: Metroid has progressed a lot lately in terms of popularity and character diversity, but it's debatable as to who else one should add. I'm thinking Dark Samus (provided she's a non-clone), Adam Malkovich, Sylux, or Rundas.
Zelgius/Black Knight: Fire Emblem needs more representation, and Zelgius is one of the most popular non-lord characters in the series, for good reason. He'd be a very novel heavyweight, but if Ganondorf does get his sword (finally) Zelgius' play style may come off as too similar. If Zelgius can't get in, Fire Emblem needs another rep. Hector was VERY popular, and Smash currently lacks axes, so he'd be novel. Lyn is very doable, and her katana would be a little different. Personally I'd love to see something even more unique, though, since FE has a "sword-only" vibe in Smash that isn't true to the series. Micaiah with her light magic would be difficult to give a moveset to, but would be very unique as long as she isn't too much like Zelda. Sothe has a knife, which would make him pretty cool to fight with. A spear would be ideal, as uber-long-ranged thrust attacks aren't yet to be seen in Smash, but the only good candidates aren't popular outside of the FE fan base; Ephraim, Shiida, and Nephenee.
Bowser Jr.: I worry that he'd be too much like his dad, but that can be worked around. He deserves a spot.
Rosalina: I actually like the idea of adding Rosalina, provided she isn't just another Peach.
Palutena: To celebrate Kid Icarus' revival, it needs another character. I find Palutena more iconic than Medusa, but this would require a reworking of Pit's final smash (which is okay, since it was crappy anyway).
Krystal: The staff from Star Fox Adventures would serve her well; Rocket Boost for her up-B, Ground Quake for down-B, Ice Blast for forward-B, and Fire Blast for B. She'd probably need her less-revealing Star Fox Assault clothing, though.
Zoroark: While I don't think he should replace Lucario, Zoroark's build and abilities make him well-suited to Smash, and he does sort of fit the same niche as the blue jackal for the Pokemon series.
Mewtwo: Yeah, he's awesome, and I wish he would return with a moveset that didn't blow.
Midna: Midna is a huge fan favorite, a female, and has abilities unlike the rest of the cast. To make her more interesting, she could be paired with her steed, Wolf Link, which still allows Link a second rep without creating an excess of green sock hats. A quadrupedal, magic-wielding tag team would be very new to the series!
The New Villain from Skyward Sword: This strange, blueish character looks like it would be an interesting Smash character. The ability to "grab" or "trap" an enemy's attack could be worked in as a special, along with teleportation.
Paula: She would be a great addition from Earthbound, if Lucas were axed. I don't think EB warrants more than two reps, though.
Knuckles: Shadow's cool, but he's a clone of Sonic even in his own games! Tails would be interesting, but he doesn't battle much without a huge mech, so Knuckles is the obvious choice. Still a fan favorite, and those punches are something to watch out for!
Gray Fox: Yes, he has a sword, but he holds it in a reverse grip. If MG gets a new rep, it should be him.
Isaac: Never played Golden Sun, but from seeing his assist trophy, he would make a neat character.
Ray Mk II: Custom Robo should get a rep. Those guys are just too cool.
Little Mac: A boxer? In a fighting game? What?
Saki Amamiya: That laser gunblade looks too good to pass up for inclusion as a player character.
Samurai Goroh: He has potential to be a Smasher along with Falcon, but he would be another swordsman.
Black Shadow: Another option for F-Zero, and my preference, if they can only take one.
Leon Kennedy: Won't happen, but Resident Evil 4 was one of the Wii's best titles.
Primid: This would be interesting, actually. A playable character unique to Smash.
Mii: It's gonna happen, I think, but I'd prefer it didn't.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Characters that Need Cosmetic Changes:
Link: Some of his costumes need to reflect the alternate suits in Twilight Princess. Both the Magic Armor and the Zora Armor looked really sweet, but weren't just recolors of his tunic. If Toon Link is axed, you might want to add a cell-shaded costume as well.
Samus: Just like Link, add some costumes that alter her model AND colors to match her various suits. A Power Suit with smaller pauldrons, a Dark Suit with the wheel pauldrons, the famous Light and Phazon suits, even a Dark Samus suit. For Zero Suit Samus, the Dark Samus suit could give her a recolored face to reflect her phazon origins. The late-game reflection in her visor during Corruption would be a good place to start.
Kirby: A Waddle Dee or Gooey recolor would be kind of cool.
Fox: While the Star Fox characters have always appeared cooler in Smash than in their own games, I do think that his Star Fox Adventures vest and original silver jacket need representation. Also, a version with sunglasses as an homage to James would be sweet.
Marth: Now that FE11 and FE12 have PROVEN that he's male, can you lose the long hair, feminine voice, and Tiara? Hell, give him some English voice acting now too. A recolored and reshaped model could even be a tribute to the long-lost Roy.
Falco: As with Fox, tributes to his SFA and original SF outfits would be appropriate.
Ike: Ike needs depictions in his various costumes from the FE series. He's presently in his Ranger outfit, but his later Lord, Hero, and (my personal fave) Vanguard classes would all look great.
Peach: If Rosalina doesn't make it, a costume that looks like her would be a good counterpart to her Daisy suit.
Ganondorf: A Wind Waker version? Complete with a recolored and reshaped sword?
Wolf: I'd rather see his classic eyepatch than the robotic eye that replaced it later in the series. Since SF64 is being remade, why not?
Sonic: If Shadow doesn't make it in as playable, a Shadow recolor would be nice. One could also do Robo Sonic and Silver in the same fashion.
Bowser: Dry Bowser. 'Nuff said.
Olimar: A Louie suit.
Captain Falcon: He's already got a suit that reflects his doppelganger in the series, but I'd make it a closer match. Also, try to make him less homoerotic...[/COLLAPSE]
Items that Need to Be Axed:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]I know we competitive players don't use 'em, but items ARE a big part of the game, and Brawl's items were CRAP compared to Melee. The following items need to go, due to being useless, overpowered, or just too bloody random.
Exploding Crates: These are useless, when so many other things already explode. They just get in the way.
Golden Hammer: The normal Hammer was broken enough.
Lightning: Too random, and too good for SOMEONE, if not necessarily the character that used it.
Sandbag: Didn't really serve a purpose. We already have enough containers.
Dragoon: Hax, and it breaks up the flow of gameplay when everybody's just running for the parts. Smash Balls are bad enough. Lose this thing.
Timer: Like the Lightning, but not as severe.
Soccer Ball: Pointless. Not even game related.
Assist Trophies: Pokeballs that suck. I see these as a lazy way out of creating an individual item from each series, or implementing some of these as playable characters.
Stickers: 700. ALL by random chance. What the hell, Sakurai. This wasn't a challenge, it was just tedious.[/COLLAPSE]
Items that Need to Be Fixed:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Smart Bomb: These were broken in Brawl, but making the blast radius smaller and lowering the duration would make these more viable.
Ray Gun: Tweak the knockback and fire rate. Against some characters, this weapon was an instant kill, as you could just juggle them right off the side. Also, I for one think it should look like the Duck Hunt Gun.
Cracker Launcher: Not all that overpowered, but a pain in the butt to aim.
Poison Mushroom: Either make them move in the opposite direction of the Super Mushroom, or give them their original easily differentiable colors (if the latter, adding some BENEFIT to being tiny might help)
Pokeballs: Melee's pokemon were much more entertaining and useful than Brawl's. I feel like the pokeball monsters suffered considerably when there were so many Assist Trophies to program as well. Make the pokemon more numerous, more functional, and back off on the legendaries.[/COLLAPSE]
New Items:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Baby Metroid: Contained in its original Super Metroid glass jar. Throw to break. It will attack the nearest enemy, just like the assist trophy currently does, but it's smaller and more true to the series.
Ball and Chain: This item was kinda goofy in Twilight Princess, but it would suit Smash Bros. perfectly. Equivalent power to a hammer when swung, and blocks frontal attacks just like it did originally, but it makes you move like you're carrying a container, and you can't walk while swinging.
Goomba's Shoe: One of the most imaginitive and oddly-satisfying powerups from SMB3, I can see this on the battlefields of Smash 4.
Parasol: I thought this item was REALLY creative in Melee, and I have no idea why they axed it. RETURN THE PARASOL.
Red Shell: I miss this from Melee, obnoxious though it was.
The Wind Waker: If Toon Link is axed, this item would be a cool way to instantly create winds across the stage, which would increase movement in one direction and decrease it in another, as well as moving items or still characters.
Frisbee: From Nintendogs. One-shot throwing weapon.
Blue Shell: Throw it, and it damages the player in first place. *shot*
F-Zero Speed Boost: Run over this panel to get shot rapidly in the direction it faces.
Barrier Shield: From Star Fox Assault. Unlike the Starman, which grants total invincibility, this would temporarily replace your default L/R shield with one that doesn't shrink.
Random Minions: Remember in Melee how Koopas, Goombas, Topis and other enemies from Adventure mode had a tiny chance of showing up during regular versus fights? Do that again, but add some more minion types (zoomer from Metroid, Waddle Dee from Kirby, Shy Guy from Yoshi, etc)[/COLLAPSE]
Stages That Need to be Carried Over:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Pirate Ship: One of the best stages Smash has ever had. Very fun! I might drop the swimming gimmick and tone down those bombs, but this stage is really really well designed.
Hyrule Temple: Banned, of course, but fun to play on and the casuals love it.
Smashville: One of the best neutrals. Shame the music is so quirky...
Corneria: A Star Fox stage on top of the Great Fox is a staple now. I'd personally like to see the stage redesigned again, placed in another locale, with the ship updated to its Assault or Command appearance.
Pictochat: A remake of this unique stage would be very cool.
Battleship Halberd: A very simple but unique stage that's fun and balanced.
Battlefield: A great neutral in its present state, and a staple of the series.
Final Destination: The plain, flat stage is a must. However, Melee's was MUCH better than this. Give it some sloped walls on the side so you don't lose your stock on the blasted lips, and maybe up the size a bit.[/COLLAPSE]
Stages Where Developers Should Learn from their Mistakes
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Spear Pillar: Reversing the controls and flipping the screen are two of the worst gags Smash has had. Disruptive, confusing, utterly not fun, and worst of all it doesn't affect the CPUs.
Port Town: No grabbable ledges on a cast with tether-dependant characters? Hideous. Add that to the speeding, overpowered death machines and damaging walls, and you have a stage nobody wants to play on. Mute City was a vastly superior implementation of this stage mechanic.
WarioWare: If the items that provide the gamebreaking effects here are turned off, those effects should disappear as well. Plain and simple. This stage is a pain for those who like a more gritty approach to Smash, which is pretty much all competitive players, and any casuals that like to emulate their playstyle.
Distant Planet: I liked the idea for this stage, but the rushing water and the fact that the monster insta-kills anyone standing on it make it much less viable.
New Pork City: Casuals loved Hyrule for its size, but this stage was nuts. Every single match degenerated into a "can't catch me" contest, and when Sonic was thrown in, this was intolerable to play on.
The Summit: Hardly any standard terrain, no grabbable ledges at all, swim-gimmick water, and an instant-death hazard make this stage ridiculous. Even casuals hate playing here, in my experience with them.
Skyworld: Not a bad layout, but the stage is so prone to stage spiking (among casuals) and teching (among competitives) that it's no fun to play on for anyone. The new Kid Icarus game should provide ample material for a better stage for the series.
75m: A nice throwback to an old classic, but generally poor stage design. There isn't enough room to actually fight, and the hazards are pretty serious.
Mario Bros: Ceilings everywhere, teching all over the place, walkoff blastlines, and the most life-threatening, unpredictable hazards ever seen in Smash. This stage is Smash Bros. Hell.
Game & Watch: I enjoyed the first one, but this one just had too many damaging gimmicks going on, especially for its close blast lines.
Pictochat: A very fun, novel idea for a stage, but a great example of how too many overpowered hazards can ruin a great idea.
Hanenbow: Just... no.
Shadow Moses Island: A novelty, but the fact that only one blast line is available makes it very unbalanced.[/COLLAPSE]
General Gameplay Changes:
[COLLAPSE="Show"] - Faster, but not quite as blazing as Melee.
- Less floaty
- More hitstun, but not as much as was in Melee. Getting helplessly stuck in long combos isn't Smash Bros, it's Street Fighter. That said, trading single hits back and forth is also dull.
- NO TRIPPING, unless it's induced by an attack, the banana peel item, or icy ground.
- Since L-canceling was dropped in favor of auto-cancelling, I say all aerials (save some of the really powerful ones) should auto cancel.
- Swimming was a nice try, but it came off as a gimmick and broke the flow of the game. Simple though it was, Melee's treatment of water (a la Great Bay) was much more effective.
- Footstooling was also gimmicky, but I feel that actually has some potential. It's mainly the tumble animation combined with the slow fall that screws it up.
- Drop the Subspace Emissary. I liked Melee's adventure mode better. The plot wasn't all that bad, but the gameplay was either insufferably boring or aggravatingly hard. The cutscenes and standard Smash-style duels were the only high points.
- Boss battles is a LITTLE ridiculous on Intense. That's the kind of challenge aimed at casual players, but I've yet to see a casual player actually beat it; the only ones I know of who've conquered the challenge are competitive players who got bored.
- The ability to turn off items in Single Player would be GREAT. I think I speak for all good players when I say that the Multi-Man Melees are MUCH harder BECAUSE of the items.
- Do more with the event matches. Melee's were a riot for the most part, but Brawl's were lacking.
- Bring back Board the Platforms! That was sick!
- The original Smash also had animated character selections. That would be nice to see.
- Drop the Masterpieces, and spend your time on things that aren't gimmicks.
- I'd say the amount of trophies is pretty good. Don't add too many more.
- Already said it once, and I'll say it again: to Hell with stickers.
- Keep the current airdodge system. Regardless of what it did for the competitive community, wavedashing was not how Melee was supposed to be played. Focus instead on making the normal Smash-style gameplay accessible to both competitives and casuals. Besides, going into helpless after a midair dodge is annoying.
- Fix some of the timing mechanics around shielding. It's WAY too easy to get punished for hitting a shield, especially since shield grabbing trumps a physical attack in priority. I've had CPU's grab Toon Link in the middle of his grounded Spin Attack.
- Make the AI smarter, not just hax. Superhuman timing and precision doesn't make them "harder," it just makes them frustrating and worthless for practice.
- Get rid of chaingrabbing... please... I use it because it works, but it's really lame, especially on stages where the blast lines can be walked into.
- Don't show so much favor to Kirby over everything else, Sakurai. Believe it or not, not everyone wants Brawl's story to be a Kirby-styled adventure, and the fact that Meta Knight has almost no weaknesses seems to be pretty blatant favoritism on your part. Kirby as a franchise is well and good, but when gamers want a Kirby game, they'll buy a Kirby game. Keep Smash Bros as Smash Bros.
- Don't ignore the wishes of American (and European) gamers. Metroid, for instance, is popular here, and just because the Japanese don't like it much, we've had to put up with Samus being the redheaded stepchild of Smash for three generations of consoles. The game's for us too, and last time I checked, our higher population actually translates to more sales... listen to us!
- In general, don't make things "random," "easy" or "gay" just to appease the casual gamer. Not all casual gamers even LIKE that kind of thing. At least provide options to turn that stuff off. (Examples include highly disruptive stage hazards, highly random and unbalanced items, Final Smashes, and tripping)
- Stage design needs work. Brawl had some nice neutral stages as opposed to Melee, but the more creative stages were mostly gimmicky, broken, or severely unbalanced. We understand that Temple will never go away, but is crap like the Mario Bros stage REALLY necessary? I don't mind the concept of stage hazards all that much, and even moving stages can be fun (Poke Floats was a riot for me), but when the stage hazards shift the focus away from the gameplay, there's a problem.[/COLLAPSE]
Brawl Characters that Should be Axed
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Toon Link - Zelda has SO many more characters to choose from, even from its cell-shaded alternate timeline, that there is NO reason to keep two versions of the same guy. I love playing as the sailing swordsman, but he's just gotta go.
Jigglypuff - It's moveset is bland, it no longer has much usefulness, it's hideously unpopular in America, it doesn't count as a female towards diversity since its gender can go either way, and it's very upstaged by many of the newer pokemon. It will probably be kept due to veterancy and Japanese popularity, but I really think it should go.[/COLLAPSE]
Brawl Characters that Need Serious Moveset Refactoring
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Ganondorf - Honestly, there is no excuse for the King of Evil to remain a fat Falcon clone. Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, AND Ocarina of Time have all given him prowess with a sword, and that needs to be executed to give him a different moveset. It would also make him significantly cooler, and bring a more interesting dynamic to the Link vs Ganondorf matchup.
Lucas - Earthbound needs its second rep, and while I'd prefer to see someone more interesting (like Paula) take his place, Lucas could remain usable if they would just change his special moves, final smash, and forward smash. Earthbound, from what I understand, had a lot of different abilities, so maintaining his excessive similarity to Ness hurts him.
Sonic - (Yes, he needs to be kept in, because it would disappoint a lot of people otherwise) Sonic's moveset was rushed, and it shows. Most of his attacks are "borrowed" from other animations, and three of his four specials involve "curl into a ball and move really fast." He needs some fixing to make him fun to play.
Wario - Sorry, the fart is juvenile. I, for one, would like to see a return to the pre-WarioWare days, when the fat man was actually kind of cool instead of a source of potty humor. His old suplexes and piledrivers, crazy strength, and more serious attributes would be a great counterpoint to Mario.
Wolf - Like Sonic, his moveset was rushed and copy-pasted. I'd love to see them change ALL of his specials except the blaster, and that Landmaster has to go in favor of a Wolfen. Wolf needs to stay, as he's a very popular series villain, but he needs to be brought up to par and decloned.
Falco - *sigh* I love playing him as is, but his specials are still too similar to Fox. Definitely change his final smash (an arwing or Great Fox would do the job), and I would recommend changing his up-B and down-B entirely. Face it, Fire Bird sucks anyway, and after its changes from Melee, the Reflector isn't nearly what it could be. I'd prefer to keep the Phantasm, but that may have to go too. I wouldn't change his blaster though; all the Star Fox cast should have a laser projectile for consistency (see Krystal in the Newcomers section).
Ike - His final smash should be changed to reflect that endgame cutscene from Radiant Dawn, where Yune empowers him with blue flames to strike down Ashera. They may also want to change Counter to another skill from FE10, but that may be a keeper since all the FE characters have had it to date.
Luigi - I would change his Down B to the Poltergust 3000. Unlike the rest of the cast, Luigi is SUPPOSED to be clone-ish, and this would better reflect the FLUDD that Mario has. His final smash also needs work...[/COLLAPSE]
Potential Newcomers
[COLLAPSE="Show"](yes, I know the chances of all of these getting in are slim, but if even half of these get in I'd be a happy clam)
Mega Man: He should've been in Brawl, and he needs to be in now. They'll just need to be REALLY careful about making him too similar to Samus, what with the charging arm-gun and all. His slide would make a nice down special, and combinations of Rush and his alternate beam weapons would add a lot to his moveset.
King K. Rool: As has been said, we need more villains, and this delivers well. His crown-bowling technique from DKC's boss fight on the SNES would make a great B move!
Dixie Kong: I feel that Donkey Kong is old enough and popular enough to warrant a second newcomer, especially with a new "classic-styled" release, DK Returns. Dixie's hair-floating would be a very novel addition, not to mention she's a female to diversify the cast a bit.
Ridley: He is SO cool, and Metroid is hideously under-represented. His size is really a non-issue; if they can scale down Bowser and Charizard for Brawl, they can do it with Ridley.
Another Metroid Character: Metroid has progressed a lot lately in terms of popularity and character diversity, but it's debatable as to who else one should add. I'm thinking Dark Samus (provided she's a non-clone), Adam Malkovich, Sylux, or Rundas.
Zelgius/Black Knight: Fire Emblem needs more representation, and Zelgius is one of the most popular non-lord characters in the series, for good reason. He'd be a very novel heavyweight, but if Ganondorf does get his sword (finally) Zelgius' play style may come off as too similar. If Zelgius can't get in, Fire Emblem needs another rep. Hector was VERY popular, and Smash currently lacks axes, so he'd be novel. Lyn is very doable, and her katana would be a little different. Personally I'd love to see something even more unique, though, since FE has a "sword-only" vibe in Smash that isn't true to the series. Micaiah with her light magic would be difficult to give a moveset to, but would be very unique as long as she isn't too much like Zelda. Sothe has a knife, which would make him pretty cool to fight with. A spear would be ideal, as uber-long-ranged thrust attacks aren't yet to be seen in Smash, but the only good candidates aren't popular outside of the FE fan base; Ephraim, Shiida, and Nephenee.
Bowser Jr.: I worry that he'd be too much like his dad, but that can be worked around. He deserves a spot.
Rosalina: I actually like the idea of adding Rosalina, provided she isn't just another Peach.
Palutena: To celebrate Kid Icarus' revival, it needs another character. I find Palutena more iconic than Medusa, but this would require a reworking of Pit's final smash (which is okay, since it was crappy anyway).
Krystal: The staff from Star Fox Adventures would serve her well; Rocket Boost for her up-B, Ground Quake for down-B, Ice Blast for forward-B, and Fire Blast for B. She'd probably need her less-revealing Star Fox Assault clothing, though.
Zoroark: While I don't think he should replace Lucario, Zoroark's build and abilities make him well-suited to Smash, and he does sort of fit the same niche as the blue jackal for the Pokemon series.
Mewtwo: Yeah, he's awesome, and I wish he would return with a moveset that didn't blow.
Midna: Midna is a huge fan favorite, a female, and has abilities unlike the rest of the cast. To make her more interesting, she could be paired with her steed, Wolf Link, which still allows Link a second rep without creating an excess of green sock hats. A quadrupedal, magic-wielding tag team would be very new to the series!
The New Villain from Skyward Sword: This strange, blueish character looks like it would be an interesting Smash character. The ability to "grab" or "trap" an enemy's attack could be worked in as a special, along with teleportation.
Paula: She would be a great addition from Earthbound, if Lucas were axed. I don't think EB warrants more than two reps, though.
Knuckles: Shadow's cool, but he's a clone of Sonic even in his own games! Tails would be interesting, but he doesn't battle much without a huge mech, so Knuckles is the obvious choice. Still a fan favorite, and those punches are something to watch out for!
Gray Fox: Yes, he has a sword, but he holds it in a reverse grip. If MG gets a new rep, it should be him.
Isaac: Never played Golden Sun, but from seeing his assist trophy, he would make a neat character.
Ray Mk II: Custom Robo should get a rep. Those guys are just too cool.
Little Mac: A boxer? In a fighting game? What?
Saki Amamiya: That laser gunblade looks too good to pass up for inclusion as a player character.
Samurai Goroh: He has potential to be a Smasher along with Falcon, but he would be another swordsman.
Black Shadow: Another option for F-Zero, and my preference, if they can only take one.
Leon Kennedy: Won't happen, but Resident Evil 4 was one of the Wii's best titles.
Primid: This would be interesting, actually. A playable character unique to Smash.
Mii: It's gonna happen, I think, but I'd prefer it didn't.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Characters that Need Cosmetic Changes:
Link: Some of his costumes need to reflect the alternate suits in Twilight Princess. Both the Magic Armor and the Zora Armor looked really sweet, but weren't just recolors of his tunic. If Toon Link is axed, you might want to add a cell-shaded costume as well.
Samus: Just like Link, add some costumes that alter her model AND colors to match her various suits. A Power Suit with smaller pauldrons, a Dark Suit with the wheel pauldrons, the famous Light and Phazon suits, even a Dark Samus suit. For Zero Suit Samus, the Dark Samus suit could give her a recolored face to reflect her phazon origins. The late-game reflection in her visor during Corruption would be a good place to start.
Kirby: A Waddle Dee or Gooey recolor would be kind of cool.
Fox: While the Star Fox characters have always appeared cooler in Smash than in their own games, I do think that his Star Fox Adventures vest and original silver jacket need representation. Also, a version with sunglasses as an homage to James would be sweet.
Marth: Now that FE11 and FE12 have PROVEN that he's male, can you lose the long hair, feminine voice, and Tiara? Hell, give him some English voice acting now too. A recolored and reshaped model could even be a tribute to the long-lost Roy.
Falco: As with Fox, tributes to his SFA and original SF outfits would be appropriate.
Ike: Ike needs depictions in his various costumes from the FE series. He's presently in his Ranger outfit, but his later Lord, Hero, and (my personal fave) Vanguard classes would all look great.
Peach: If Rosalina doesn't make it, a costume that looks like her would be a good counterpart to her Daisy suit.
Ganondorf: A Wind Waker version? Complete with a recolored and reshaped sword?
Wolf: I'd rather see his classic eyepatch than the robotic eye that replaced it later in the series. Since SF64 is being remade, why not?
Sonic: If Shadow doesn't make it in as playable, a Shadow recolor would be nice. One could also do Robo Sonic and Silver in the same fashion.
Bowser: Dry Bowser. 'Nuff said.
Olimar: A Louie suit.
Captain Falcon: He's already got a suit that reflects his doppelganger in the series, but I'd make it a closer match. Also, try to make him less homoerotic...[/COLLAPSE]
Items that Need to Be Axed:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]I know we competitive players don't use 'em, but items ARE a big part of the game, and Brawl's items were CRAP compared to Melee. The following items need to go, due to being useless, overpowered, or just too bloody random.
Exploding Crates: These are useless, when so many other things already explode. They just get in the way.
Golden Hammer: The normal Hammer was broken enough.
Lightning: Too random, and too good for SOMEONE, if not necessarily the character that used it.
Sandbag: Didn't really serve a purpose. We already have enough containers.
Dragoon: Hax, and it breaks up the flow of gameplay when everybody's just running for the parts. Smash Balls are bad enough. Lose this thing.
Timer: Like the Lightning, but not as severe.
Soccer Ball: Pointless. Not even game related.
Assist Trophies: Pokeballs that suck. I see these as a lazy way out of creating an individual item from each series, or implementing some of these as playable characters.
Stickers: 700. ALL by random chance. What the hell, Sakurai. This wasn't a challenge, it was just tedious.[/COLLAPSE]
Items that Need to Be Fixed:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Smart Bomb: These were broken in Brawl, but making the blast radius smaller and lowering the duration would make these more viable.
Ray Gun: Tweak the knockback and fire rate. Against some characters, this weapon was an instant kill, as you could just juggle them right off the side. Also, I for one think it should look like the Duck Hunt Gun.
Cracker Launcher: Not all that overpowered, but a pain in the butt to aim.
Poison Mushroom: Either make them move in the opposite direction of the Super Mushroom, or give them their original easily differentiable colors (if the latter, adding some BENEFIT to being tiny might help)
Pokeballs: Melee's pokemon were much more entertaining and useful than Brawl's. I feel like the pokeball monsters suffered considerably when there were so many Assist Trophies to program as well. Make the pokemon more numerous, more functional, and back off on the legendaries.[/COLLAPSE]
New Items:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Baby Metroid: Contained in its original Super Metroid glass jar. Throw to break. It will attack the nearest enemy, just like the assist trophy currently does, but it's smaller and more true to the series.
Ball and Chain: This item was kinda goofy in Twilight Princess, but it would suit Smash Bros. perfectly. Equivalent power to a hammer when swung, and blocks frontal attacks just like it did originally, but it makes you move like you're carrying a container, and you can't walk while swinging.
Goomba's Shoe: One of the most imaginitive and oddly-satisfying powerups from SMB3, I can see this on the battlefields of Smash 4.
Parasol: I thought this item was REALLY creative in Melee, and I have no idea why they axed it. RETURN THE PARASOL.
Red Shell: I miss this from Melee, obnoxious though it was.
The Wind Waker: If Toon Link is axed, this item would be a cool way to instantly create winds across the stage, which would increase movement in one direction and decrease it in another, as well as moving items or still characters.
Frisbee: From Nintendogs. One-shot throwing weapon.
Blue Shell: Throw it, and it damages the player in first place. *shot*
F-Zero Speed Boost: Run over this panel to get shot rapidly in the direction it faces.
Barrier Shield: From Star Fox Assault. Unlike the Starman, which grants total invincibility, this would temporarily replace your default L/R shield with one that doesn't shrink.
Random Minions: Remember in Melee how Koopas, Goombas, Topis and other enemies from Adventure mode had a tiny chance of showing up during regular versus fights? Do that again, but add some more minion types (zoomer from Metroid, Waddle Dee from Kirby, Shy Guy from Yoshi, etc)[/COLLAPSE]
Stages That Need to be Carried Over:
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Pirate Ship: One of the best stages Smash has ever had. Very fun! I might drop the swimming gimmick and tone down those bombs, but this stage is really really well designed.
Hyrule Temple: Banned, of course, but fun to play on and the casuals love it.
Smashville: One of the best neutrals. Shame the music is so quirky...
Corneria: A Star Fox stage on top of the Great Fox is a staple now. I'd personally like to see the stage redesigned again, placed in another locale, with the ship updated to its Assault or Command appearance.
Pictochat: A remake of this unique stage would be very cool.
Battleship Halberd: A very simple but unique stage that's fun and balanced.
Battlefield: A great neutral in its present state, and a staple of the series.
Final Destination: The plain, flat stage is a must. However, Melee's was MUCH better than this. Give it some sloped walls on the side so you don't lose your stock on the blasted lips, and maybe up the size a bit.[/COLLAPSE]
Stages Where Developers Should Learn from their Mistakes
[COLLAPSE="Show"]Spear Pillar: Reversing the controls and flipping the screen are two of the worst gags Smash has had. Disruptive, confusing, utterly not fun, and worst of all it doesn't affect the CPUs.
Port Town: No grabbable ledges on a cast with tether-dependant characters? Hideous. Add that to the speeding, overpowered death machines and damaging walls, and you have a stage nobody wants to play on. Mute City was a vastly superior implementation of this stage mechanic.
WarioWare: If the items that provide the gamebreaking effects here are turned off, those effects should disappear as well. Plain and simple. This stage is a pain for those who like a more gritty approach to Smash, which is pretty much all competitive players, and any casuals that like to emulate their playstyle.
Distant Planet: I liked the idea for this stage, but the rushing water and the fact that the monster insta-kills anyone standing on it make it much less viable.
New Pork City: Casuals loved Hyrule for its size, but this stage was nuts. Every single match degenerated into a "can't catch me" contest, and when Sonic was thrown in, this was intolerable to play on.
The Summit: Hardly any standard terrain, no grabbable ledges at all, swim-gimmick water, and an instant-death hazard make this stage ridiculous. Even casuals hate playing here, in my experience with them.
Skyworld: Not a bad layout, but the stage is so prone to stage spiking (among casuals) and teching (among competitives) that it's no fun to play on for anyone. The new Kid Icarus game should provide ample material for a better stage for the series.
75m: A nice throwback to an old classic, but generally poor stage design. There isn't enough room to actually fight, and the hazards are pretty serious.
Mario Bros: Ceilings everywhere, teching all over the place, walkoff blastlines, and the most life-threatening, unpredictable hazards ever seen in Smash. This stage is Smash Bros. Hell.
Game & Watch: I enjoyed the first one, but this one just had too many damaging gimmicks going on, especially for its close blast lines.
Pictochat: A very fun, novel idea for a stage, but a great example of how too many overpowered hazards can ruin a great idea.
Hanenbow: Just... no.
Shadow Moses Island: A novelty, but the fact that only one blast line is available makes it very unbalanced.[/COLLAPSE]
General Gameplay Changes:
[COLLAPSE="Show"] - Faster, but not quite as blazing as Melee.
- Less floaty
- More hitstun, but not as much as was in Melee. Getting helplessly stuck in long combos isn't Smash Bros, it's Street Fighter. That said, trading single hits back and forth is also dull.
- NO TRIPPING, unless it's induced by an attack, the banana peel item, or icy ground.
- Since L-canceling was dropped in favor of auto-cancelling, I say all aerials (save some of the really powerful ones) should auto cancel.
- Swimming was a nice try, but it came off as a gimmick and broke the flow of the game. Simple though it was, Melee's treatment of water (a la Great Bay) was much more effective.
- Footstooling was also gimmicky, but I feel that actually has some potential. It's mainly the tumble animation combined with the slow fall that screws it up.
- Drop the Subspace Emissary. I liked Melee's adventure mode better. The plot wasn't all that bad, but the gameplay was either insufferably boring or aggravatingly hard. The cutscenes and standard Smash-style duels were the only high points.
- Boss battles is a LITTLE ridiculous on Intense. That's the kind of challenge aimed at casual players, but I've yet to see a casual player actually beat it; the only ones I know of who've conquered the challenge are competitive players who got bored.
- The ability to turn off items in Single Player would be GREAT. I think I speak for all good players when I say that the Multi-Man Melees are MUCH harder BECAUSE of the items.
- Do more with the event matches. Melee's were a riot for the most part, but Brawl's were lacking.
- Bring back Board the Platforms! That was sick!
- The original Smash also had animated character selections. That would be nice to see.
- Drop the Masterpieces, and spend your time on things that aren't gimmicks.
- I'd say the amount of trophies is pretty good. Don't add too many more.
- Already said it once, and I'll say it again: to Hell with stickers.
- Keep the current airdodge system. Regardless of what it did for the competitive community, wavedashing was not how Melee was supposed to be played. Focus instead on making the normal Smash-style gameplay accessible to both competitives and casuals. Besides, going into helpless after a midair dodge is annoying.
- Fix some of the timing mechanics around shielding. It's WAY too easy to get punished for hitting a shield, especially since shield grabbing trumps a physical attack in priority. I've had CPU's grab Toon Link in the middle of his grounded Spin Attack.
- Make the AI smarter, not just hax. Superhuman timing and precision doesn't make them "harder," it just makes them frustrating and worthless for practice.
- Get rid of chaingrabbing... please... I use it because it works, but it's really lame, especially on stages where the blast lines can be walked into.
- Don't show so much favor to Kirby over everything else, Sakurai. Believe it or not, not everyone wants Brawl's story to be a Kirby-styled adventure, and the fact that Meta Knight has almost no weaknesses seems to be pretty blatant favoritism on your part. Kirby as a franchise is well and good, but when gamers want a Kirby game, they'll buy a Kirby game. Keep Smash Bros as Smash Bros.
- Don't ignore the wishes of American (and European) gamers. Metroid, for instance, is popular here, and just because the Japanese don't like it much, we've had to put up with Samus being the redheaded stepchild of Smash for three generations of consoles. The game's for us too, and last time I checked, our higher population actually translates to more sales... listen to us!
- In general, don't make things "random," "easy" or "gay" just to appease the casual gamer. Not all casual gamers even LIKE that kind of thing. At least provide options to turn that stuff off. (Examples include highly disruptive stage hazards, highly random and unbalanced items, Final Smashes, and tripping)
- Stage design needs work. Brawl had some nice neutral stages as opposed to Melee, but the more creative stages were mostly gimmicky, broken, or severely unbalanced. We understand that Temple will never go away, but is crap like the Mario Bros stage REALLY necessary? I don't mind the concept of stage hazards all that much, and even moving stages can be fun (Poke Floats was a riot for me), but when the stage hazards shift the focus away from the gameplay, there's a problem.[/COLLAPSE]
Conviction
Human Nature
I work at a restaurant homie. LOL
@Omega: It's something we were supposed to do over the summer...
@Beserk: Umad?
@Omega: It's something we were supposed to do over the summer...
@Beserk: Umad?
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
Berserker the top tier derp now for saying we are gay. And here I thought I was....
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
Just you.....
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2011
- Messages
- 33,918
- Location
- This Thread
- NNID
- OpossumGuy
- 3DS FC
- 4742-4911-3431
- Switch FC
- SW 2859 6322 5208
Just saying, I'm not gay.
Anyway, any music you guys would like to see in SSB4?
Anyway, any music you guys would like to see in SSB4?
Big-Cat
Challenge accepted.
I'll post after I get out of the shower, after I workout.
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
Hmmmm....I, the top tier derp, now for saying I AM gay.
Yeah. LOL. Damn, I'm having a hard time at some subjects.
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
Wow, that sucks, well are they finished already??
Conviction
Human Nature
You said this specifically for this reason didn't you...
for his reaction because the whole thing became mad funny.
Well damn.
@Hoots: LOL it was pretty funny seeing "totally" and "dog" in the same sentence.
Big-Cat
Challenge accepted.
It's a half truth. I just used the current situation to my advantage. I'm in the middle of working out. Just have the hindu squats and pushups left.
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
Conviction
Human Nature
@Kuma: That hard read though
@BESERK: LOL OMEGA WITH THAT CALLOUT SON
@BESERK: LOL OMEGA WITH THAT CALLOUT SON
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
This thread is gay if Marth is mentioned
Conviction
Human Nature
...you mentioned him...
***** YOU GAY
***** YOU GAY
?
Big-Cat
Challenge accepted.
Think of it as a vortex setup.
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
I see you have changed your waysWhy am I not surprised, coming from a genius is expected.
Marth is gay.
Conviction
Human Nature
Ahhh, mindgames.
Oasis_S
Smash Legend
I thought I was going to be able to pull an Iblis and post this image during this topic.
Also rofl@Kuma
Also rofl@Kuma
Conviction
Human Nature
@Marthisgay topic: Inb4madburtthurtfireemblemfans
@Oasis: LOL pull an Iblis.
@Oasis: LOL pull an Iblis.
Opelucid
Smash Lord
Ahh... I got until September 6th I'll finish it next week.... do you guys think Ganondorf will get a new moveset this time around?
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
****!!!!! I thought it was Thursday, but it's Friday?? WTF!!!?
- Status