New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

As one who owns three Zoroark (Shiny Beast event Zoroark, Celebi event Zorua, and Snarl Zoroark), I'd probably be one of the best here to explain a fighting style involving Illusions.

But I'll do it later.

EDIT: Even though I would rather have Krokorok. Specifically Sunglasses Krokorok.

 

[Lukingordex]

Oh... I forgot about this thread.

What´s up?

 

[Johnknight1]

Shaddup Golden. We all know would be the best potential playable Pokémon!

 

[Lukingordex]

Shaddup Golden. We all know would be the best potential playable Pokémon!

Magikarp has more potential than him.

 

[Johnknight1]

would be broken like he is in Pokémon. Which is why IS NEEDED!!! To outbreak , , and :metaknightbrawl: !

 

[Wizzrobe]

Hey guys, have you seen this topic regarding Retro studios new project?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/12/retro-studios-too-busy-to-work-on-zelda

While it would be nice to see them work on that, I'm pretty glad that they are not so they can work on a series that needs it more. Also, because Nintendo makes the games good as it is so it's not needed that badly imo.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

These sort of off-topic tangents happen all the time. Hell, sometimes they end up being relevant to whatever is being discussed in some weird way. Let the talk run its course.

Smooth Criminal

I think he said that more so to breathe life into that thread again. Was trying to do that myself but I also lacked motivation. It is sad really, such a lovable game by our Sakurai.

You've heard of me, right. What does everyone say about me.

No one says anything about you. You should be glad that is the case though.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Wizzrobe
Old news is old.

Besides, we all know that Retro Studios is working on a relevant game series, like Mach Rider, Balloon Fight, and/or Hey You Pikachu!

 

[Lukingordex]

would be broken like he is in Pokémon. Which is why IS NEEDED!!! To outbreak , , and :metaknightbrawl: !

Well... the fact that he is broken in pokemon doesn´t mean that he would be broken in smash...
(Take a look at , he is definitely not the best melee character )

 

[Wizzrobe]

@ Wizzrobe
Old news is old.

Besides, we all know that Retro Studios is working on a relevant game series, like Mach Rider, Balloon Fight, and/or Hey You Pikachu!

Now that Zelda's out of the question, I honestly think theres a better chance for it being a Starfox. Or F-zero I hope lol.

 

[Oasis_S]

No one says anything about you. You should be glad that is the case though.

That's called fear.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Sorry for the late, slightly rushed reply

In general terms, I'm actually fully in favour of King K. Rool! He was actually the 45th character on my list - the very last one I cut before I reached the final 44 (I narrowly went with Toon Link over him). Mewtwo was a bit further down, something like 51st.

Nice

I think Smash is all about celebrating the diversity of Nintendo. It does that in two ways - it honours characters from the current generation, the new entrants to the Nintendo ranks, and it honours the characters who started their own piece of history. As I said, my rule for assessing a Smash character is first of all establish: is it a series which features the same characters repeatedly (F-Zero, Star Fox, Mario), or is it a series which features a new slate every game (Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Golden Sun). For the former, the character has to have appeared recently, and is likely to continue to appear. I'd argue Rosalina isn't really that integral to Mario, for example. We're unlikely to see her again in the future. Bowser Jr.? He's become a central character in a whole host of games now. For the latter, you can't make that distinction. You can't say "let's have Marth, he'll be relevant forever" because every game Fire Emblem has new characters. Nobody is relevant forever. The best you can do is pick the first, the history-maker, and then the most recent. That balances historical and modern relevance. For me, Roy was an excellent way to honour the generation in which Melee took place. By SSB4, he's gone.

Definitely agree, Smash is about celebrating the diverse and rich history of Nintendo. But think about it, not only is Nintendo's history diverse, but so are Smash's ways of celebrating it. We not only have characters and stages to represent Nintendo history, but we also have Assist Trophies, items, trophies, stickers, Pokeballs, etc. to cover the vastness of Nintendo's history. While I get that you want to represent current generations in each game well, why not just try to represent it in every way you can instead of just building an entire character from the ground up just to serve that one purpose?

Thank you. The only Zelda characters I think worthy of inclusion who are not present already, even at a really outside shot, is Tingle. Otherwise, Zelda's pretty much finished for me. As much as I love Vaati, he's just not deserving of a place.

Fully agreed, eevn though I wouldn't mind seeing Skull Kid as a playable character in the future

I think if FR/LG hadn't come out before Brawl, we probably would have had just plain out Blaziken, who was the Lucario/Mewtwo/Zoroark of his gen. The idea of Pokemon Trainer was inspired by Gen 1 as a whole, rather than a specific piece of Gen 1, if that makes sense.

Honestly, I would say Deoxys rather than Blaziken considering he at least had a starring role in the movie (Destiny Deoxys)

Mewtwo is a part of the Regional Dex of Gold and Silver. He's not for R/S/E, D/P/Pt, or B/W.P/QUOTE] Gonna agree to disagree here.

I disagree. The way I see it is a character has to remain relevant. What's the point of having a character who is not historically significant, or appeared recently? It'd be like including Marill. Say Marill had been included in Melee as the G/S Representative. Why would you keep Marill in, 10 years down the line? Is Marill really that important in the grand scheme of Nintendo? No, it's really not. Now, obviously I'm exaggerating. Mewtwo is a lot more important than Mewtwo. But compared to all of those 44 characters I listed, I would say Mewtwo is less important. That's not to say he's not deserving of a place. Given I definitely think Brawl will have more than 44 characters, I also think there is a strong likelihood Mewtwo will be in. I'm just saying, he's one of the characters closest to the "not inclusion" line, to my mind.

Well, what if people like playing as Marill? That should justify it staying even if it isn't "relevant" anymore in Pokemon or whatever

All of those characters had also made recent game appearances. Even Diddy Kong made an appearance as a playable character in no less than 8 games between 2005 and 2007. The fact these characters were demanded was incidental - it's the fact they were around a great deal at the time. My counter-point is Geno. Geno was highly demanded - and yet totally irrelevant. Thus, he wasn't included.

Very good point you make here, although I would argue that the main reason that Geno not or in this case, couldn't get into Brawl was because of legal issues.

Because I really don't want Smash to become self-reflective. As soon as your reasoning becomes "Why Roy? Because of Smash." you can start saying "Why Master Hand? Because of Smash.", or "Why Tabuu? Because of Smash." Even for less extreme examples, we'd have bring back Pichu and Dr. Mario by this logic. It just doesn't hold.

Well, even if he was a clone, at least Roy is his own character overall, unlike Doc. And Pichu was just meant to be a one-time joke character; in other words, pretty much completely useless

As for Master Hand, I don't really like for bosses in fighting games to become playable, but yeah, probably should save that for another discussion

Jigglypuff was originally going to be the Pokemon Mascot.

Huh, I never actually heard that before

No, Mewtwo's a little different to Roy. I think Mewtwo still stands a very high chance, he's probably just about inside the top 50 characters, if not my top 44. Roy doesn't make that bar at all.

I think Mewtwo will be in a Smash game. Note, the 44 character list is not my prediction; it's what I personally would choose if I was forced to cut down to just 44 characters. You can see above what I get if I go for 55 characters - Mewtwo is actually included. If you like, I just think Mewtwo is in the twilight zone - his inclusion is very much dependent on the roster size. He's a very strong contender, but not enough to be absolutely, completely sure of a space.

Okay, I think I'm really starting to understand where you're coming from now.

Just as an example. My main point is, the only thing that makes Roy any different to Lyn or Ephraim or Celice or Sigurd (and if we're being honest, Sigurd is the best Lord in Fire Emblem by such a large margin it's not even funny ), is that he's appeared in Smash before. The only logic you can use to justify Roy is "he's been there before, therefore he should be in". If you follow that, we also have to add Pichu back, and Dr. Mario back. That's just not worth it when those spaces could go to other characters. Even if you just go "**** it, Roy is an exception", you still have to say "why is Roy an exception?". What makes Roy so special? And there really is no other answer than "because I personally like him". On an objective basis, Roy does not get a place (where as Mewtwo and King K. Rool probably will).

To be brutally honest, you're very correct, Roy doesn't really need to return; I really just want him back because I really enjoyed playing as him in Melee (plus, he would be luigified like all of the returning clones were in Brawl)

No worries, I follow where you're going.

Okay, awesome then.

Yes. Absolutely. In fact, if Zoroark and Krom make it into SSB4, I fully expect neither Krom nor Zoroark to be in SSB5 (provided they don't re-use their characters in games released after SSB4). Zoroark and Krom should not be permanent. They should be in now because they're the representatives of their series now, but they won't be in the future, and then they should be removed (which is a shame because Krom is a good design, but that's life for you).

But then that would just create a predictable cycle of those kind of characters being replaced for every single Smash game. Again, what's the point of putting a whole character as a playable character if you're just going to replace them with another character soon afterwards? And what if people actually like that character and they want they play? Cutting them would only piss off a lot of people, so it's better to just keep them

You'll find it above you. There's one or two characters I don't really mind if they go, I threw it together quickly just as a rough guide, so I could probably be easily persuaded to change say, Captain Syrup or Paper Mario.

Nice, let me check it out now and I'll get back to you tomorrow with a response for it

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

To everyone: Does MegaMan stand any chance of getting in despite all the trouble Capcom is in with gamers and the video game industry?

To Holder of the Heel: That's half of the reason. The other half I probably shouldn't say.

To johnknight1: I'm not exactly anti-Roy, but I just don't think Fire Emblem 6 was a good enough Fire Emblem game compared to the rest of the series to warrant him taking another slot. Therefore, with a revamped moveset, my attitude changes from total opposition merely to one of "I could take him or leave him." Also, because of the high critical reception of FE4, people once said Sigurd was supposed to be in Melee, but was replaced by Roy in order to advertise FE6.

To Oasis_S: As far as I know, only that you can be identified by your bold S's.

 

[Deleted member]

He's wrong, Metal.
It was Clefairy, not Jigglypuff that was going to be the mascot.

 

[---]

To everyone: Does MegaMan stand any chance of getting in despite all the trouble Capcom is in with gamers and the video game industry?

Don't worry he still does. He's not dead (though can be said to be near hiatus/taking a break as Rockman Online is close to being cancelled) and is still an important brand for Capcom.

Heck Capcom has been counting down to his 25th Birthday for the past few months saying that they have big plans in-store come December.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Oh okay, thanks then, Golden

So Capcom is planning on doing something for MM's 25th anniversary after all? Awesome

 

[Holder of the Heel]

GTA, if we get a newcomer from a third party, it is most likely going to be Capcom, and if it is from Capcom, it is most likely going to be Megaman.

Though Sakurai could be creative on us and go Amaterasu or Chibiterasu from Capcom. Still haven't played Okamiden.. I wonder if that's better than Okami.

 

[---]

So Capcom is planning on doing something for MM's 25th anniversary after all? Awesome

Yeah, just check out some Mega Man sites. lol

So far Capcom has been counting down each month by doing an entire playthrough streams of each game in the Classic Series. Just yesterday they did the MM6 playthrough.

There are 11 main games in the Classic Series (16 if you add in the GB series) and 12 months in the year, it's a countdown to "something" all right.

 

[Johnknight1]

Mega Man's chances are still higher than any other 3rd party character (that aren't Sonic or Snake), easily.

He's got loads of fan demand, he could bring in new fan bases, and if Capcom brings their "big guns" to the Wii U, then it would be a great promotion to that.

And yeah, we're gonna get the next "big" Mega Man game soon. Whether it is a new series, a continuation of the classic series, or the revival of another Mega Man series, we're getting our main man. Hopefully we get a few games, actually. I would personally love an expanded "new step" in the classic series. (<3 dem classics)

 

[Holder of the Heel]

GTA, I can't reply to your message, guessing your settings need some resettings?

But to answer your questions, Ende is the Japanese name for Aeron who is the main character from Pandora's Tower.
Not sure of the chances whether Sora will get it, but by default I'd say he would be awfully unlikely considering there are so many other characters that would get in before him.

 

[Johnknight1]

To johnknight1: I'm not exactly anti-Roy, but I just don't think Fire Emblem 6 was a good enough Fire Emblem game compared to the rest of the series to warrant him taking another slot. Therefore, with a revamped moveset, my attitude changes from total opposition merely to one of "I could take him or leave him." Also, because of the high critical reception of FE4, people once said Sigurd was supposed to be in Melee, but was replaced by Roy in order to advertise FE6.

I never played 4, but from the Fire Emblem games I've played (1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10), I can tell you Fire Emblem 6 is the best of them (aside from maybe 3 and 9) by a mile. 7 is too inconsistent, 8 is so easy to where you don't have to try, 10 is ridiculously hard, and 1 is really unbalanced and some units are pretty much worthless.

Also, that Sigurd stuff I'm pretty sure is bull. That's from a fake pre-Brawl rumor that Sigurd was Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem character, when actually it was some minor random unit that he liked, probably because it was broken! Basically, it was a fad based on fake stuff that was fake after Sakurai murdered it and pooped on it!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@GTA_Hater_331: Yes. He has quite a chance. Sakurai is interested, and Capcom has never shown any issues of him being in Smash itself.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

Mega Man's chances are still higher than any other 3rd party character (that aren't Sonic or Snake), easily.

He's got loads of fan demand, he could bring in new fan bases, and if Capcom brings their "big guns" to the Wii U, then it would be a great promotion to that.

And yeah, we're gonna get the next "big" Mega Man game soon. Whether it is a new series, a continuation of the classic series, or the revival of another Mega Man series, we're getting our main man. Hopefully we get a few games, actually. I would personally love an expanded "new step" in the classic series. (<3 dem classics)

Actually, I heard Sonic and Snake were guest characters in Brawl. Does being a "guest character" tie them to one installment? Or does "guest" just mean that they don't follow every last criteria of playable characters, but can be in as many installments as the powers that be want?

 

[Johnknight1]

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo and Capcom are negotiating over Mega Man in Smash Bros. right now, or already got it dealt with, especially after Mega Bara Man's Street Fighter X Tekken story ending referenced Smash Bros. I also got a feeling Capcom is pushing Nintendo to reference Street Fighter or their Capcom/Street Fighter vs. series. That and push for a Capcom vs. Nintendo game so Capcom can make some more mulla!

@ GTA_Hater
Sakurai refers to a lot of things as "guests," so it is hard to tell! Really, I think Sakurai wanted to say that getting Sonic and Snake back in smash bros. is out of Nintendo's control. Whether this was done to take pressure off of Sakurai, to put pressure of SEGA and Konami, to clear things up (legally), and/or something else is debatable

 

[---]

I never played 4, but from the Fire Emblem games I've played (1, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10), I can tell you Fire Emblem 6 is the best of them (aside from maybe 9) by a mile.

That's a little subjective.

But you are right, FE4 isn't the big one when it comes to FE, at least in Japan, that honor belongs to FE3 (highest rated, best selling until it's sequel FE13, appears on several Japanese Top 100 lists).

FE4 is the favorite in the US (by the diehard fans). I'm also pretty sure that Sigurd is the lowest on the fanbase of the FE4-5 lords. Leaf > Celice > Sigurd

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Triple Dash
Life is objective.

There will be no objections from you, for I am this cases' judge.

Also, I think Sakurai kinda sorta sees Marth as the overarching Famicom/Super Famicom "main character," as well as the series' mascot character.

 

[---]

@ Triple Dash
Life is objective. There will be no objections from you, for I am this cases' judge.

I've played (1-5, 7-11), I outrank you. I'm taking over this case.

EDIT: I've also tried out 6 and 12. The latter I'm either importing or waiting for the translation.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well you haven't played 6, according to your bio Triple Dash.

Plus I can dash 8 times more!!!

Your objection is DENIED!!!!

Also, I bet you don't know how to wield the ph1r3 that is Roy in Melee, and you probably don't counter someone who uses Roy with Roy like a real MAN!!!

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo and Capcom are negotiating over Mega Man in Smash Bros. right now, or already got it dealt with, especially after Mega Bara Man's Street Fighter X Tekken story ending referenced Smash Bros. I also got a feeling Capcom is pushing Nintendo to reference Street Fighter or their Capcom/Street Fighter vs. series. That and push for a Capcom vs. Nintendo game so Capcom can make some more mulla!

Seriously? You CANNOT see the word "Parody" in the title of that video, John?
THIS is the real ending. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRhsyYqs-5Q
And the character Sakurai liked was Nabarl. And I doubt it had to do with him being broken.

 

[Starphoenix]

I liked when people scanned the background of Smashville, looking for characters that weren't there. "Resetti isn't there, so he must be playable!" Oh wait no, I hated that. PATHETIC.

Though I remember saying the Villager could still have been playable, since there are more than one. But also that it didn't matter because he wouldn't be playable because a stage was the best way to represent the series.

Weren't there people thinking an Electroplankton and Nintendo DS character also had to be in because of those two stages?

If I remember correctly nobody knew about Electroplankton until the week before Brawl waas released, by that time we pretty much already knew thee roster. As for Pictochat, again, if I remember correctly, people who were of the opinion that the leaf icon wasn't significant used Pictochat as evidence that an Animal Crossing character was not guaranteed. Everyone gave up expecting an Animal Crossing character at that point (which is a good thing in hindsight).

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Golden Geisha (because I thought it would sound cool/funny/random)
People care about Street Fighter X Tekken to know that=???

More accurately, people care about Street Fighter X Tekken's story mode to care=???

Well, Sakurai likes his things broken. Kirby in Smash 64=??? BROKEN! Meta Knight in Brawl=??? BROKEN!!! His adorable space animals=??? BROKEN!!!

@ Star
I don't think anybody cared about the last stages. Once we saw 75M, we were like "oh look, all the last stages are garbage." And we were right.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

There were people suggesting that there could be a DS character or Animal crossing because of the stages and icons, but no one seriously believed it

 

[---]

Well you haven't played 6, according to your bio Triple Dash.

Plus I can dash 8 times more!!!

Your objection is DENIED!!!!

Also, I bet you don't know how to wield the ph1r3 that is Roy in Melee, and you probably don't counter someone who uses Roy with Roy like a real MAN!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-jXe0x4YdM

Spoiler

And you haven't played 3-5 and 12 according to your bio.

Spoiler

I've tried out 6 and 12 before I just haven't had time to really dig into either. Planning on importing them, however, when I get the time. I've also beaten FE1 before the translation rom came out and was one of the first to report on it on SF.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Especially considering the concept of an Animal Crossing character is a tad too obscure in theory. Even Sakurai commented about an Animal Crossing character not working.

 

[Deleted member]

That only made me think of "Golden Ganesha", John.

ALL HAIL THE GOLDEN ELEPHANT MAN!

 

[Starphoenix]

I really want Hal Labs to help Sakurai and his team work on the next Super Smash Bros. He (Sakurai) has already expressed how he needs some extra help to develop the game, and I cannot think of a team who I trust more than Hal, who developed the first two games. I don't think Hal is working on anything actively as they just wrapped up Kirby's Return to Dreamland, so perhaps it could happen? I'd like for it to.

Many of the current staff members from Kid Icarus Uprising will move on to work on Smash Bros. However, because the scale is so big, Project Sora will need to take on new staff. Elsewhere in the column, Sakurai and Iwata went into great depth about the type of staff they're seeking for the game: planners, programmers and designers (artists)... Sakurai threatened (or possibly joked) that if they can't find appropriate staff, he'll either switch to development on just one platform, or will use a small staff and take five years to make the project.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Star
FINALLY Someone joins me in the global quest for the good of smash bros! You can't spell "hail!" without HAL!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-jXe0x4YdM

Okay Hitler hair.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Hal might assist with several stuff, mostly helping with designs for certain stages. Sort of similar to how Retro Studios assisted with the design of some stages in Mario Kart 7.

 

[---]

I really want Hal Labs to help Sakurai and his team work on the next Super Smash Bros. He (Sakurai) has already expressed how he needs some extra help to develop the game, and I cannot think of a team who I trust more than Hal, who developed the first two games. I don't think Hal is working on anything actively as they just wrapped up Kirby's Return to Dreamland, so perhaps it could happen? I'd like for it to.

Wasn't it already announced that both Hal and Sora would be working on this?

Okay Hitler hair.

You're just trying to ignor the other points I made.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Seriously? You CANNOT see the word "Parody" in the title of that video, John?
THIS is the real ending. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRhsyYqs-5Q
And the character Sakurai liked was Nabarl. And I doubt it had to do with him being broken.

So are we getting a fat Megaman in Sm4sh? (btw that cutscene reminded me of F-zero GX cutscenes.)