New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Reyairia]

However, they say that there's no such thing as a bad Pokemon, but a Pokemon can end up doing bad actions, based on the actions of its trainer. Mewtwo may be a wild Pokemon, but being around evil humans did affect its actions.

Precisely. There is no such thing as a true villain pokemon, really. Except maybe Giratina.

 

[Sonic Poke]

OMG!!

I approve of this!!

Though I would add Mewtwo/Armored Mewtwo instead.

I've always wanted Giovanni an antagonist as opposed to Pokemon Trainer.

Thanks, Giovanni would be a more viable option for the return of Mewtwo, as well as Team Rocket would be another viable option for the entry of Meowth. I'll reformulate this moveset.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I'd personally take a protagonistic Pokemon Trainer than one with antagonistic thoughts.

A Pokemon Trainer Protagonist and another villain! that's what I want!

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'd personally take a protagonistic Pokemon Trainer than one with antagonistic thoughts.

Antagonistic thoughts or not, IMO is still a cool character to play as, Ganondorf ain't exactly a saint himself. <_<

 

[Gamingboy]

Antagonistic thoughts or not, IMO is still a cool character to play as, Ganondorf ain't exactly a saint himself. <_<

Saint of Badass Evil!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Precisely. There is no such thing as a true villain pokemon, really. Except maybe Giratina.

Giratina isn't evil either. No Pokemon is evil, but there are some misunderstood ones.

 

[Xhampi]

Thanks, Giovanni would be a more viable option for the return of Mewtwo, as well as Team Rocket would be another viable option for the entry of Meowth. I'll reformulate this moveset.

Wouldn't Meowth be a little weird as a Giovanni's Pokemon since Giovanni's signature pokemon is a Persian and the fact that he hate TR Meowth ?
Oh and we all know than Pichu is the true king of evil, he is so powerfull than he hurt himself =D

 

[Reyairia]

Antagonistic thoughts or not, IMO is still a cool character to play as, Ganondorf ain't exactly a saint himself. <_<

I tried searching for "Ganondorf" and "Saint" as keywords on DeviantART out of curiosity and I got an error lol.

 

[Deleted member]

@KumaOso's Krystal move set: Very interesting if I must say. I'll play with Krystal with this move set if Krystal becomes playable, at least she'll be unique (And Star Fox needs unique characters).

Zoroark would probably count as a villain though.

Zoroark probably wouldn't, he was just ordered by his trainer to do antagonistic things. He's actually a protagonist.

I remember in the early days of Brawl speculation, people were vying for Blaziken. Quite avidly, really. The majority wanted that fiery chicken thing, with a minority noticing changes and began betting on Lucario once he came out...

I'm very curious as to what we can expect to see... Generations of pokemon come out every 2-3 years usually. Putting the next gen at 2013-2014, around when brawl would PROBABLY come out... My guess is this is bad for Zoroark, who is already (by popular perception) being passed along for Victini and Genesect.

Gen IV debuted late 06/07...
Brawl came out in 2008.

My guess is Gen VI will be too late for incorporation, especially given that preproduction is when most roster positions would be finalized, and that will begin late this year or early next year.

I think it's safe to say we'll be getting a Gen V pokemon, and I'm betting on Genesect or Victini.

Thoughts?

That's why I think Zoroark and Victini have equal chances of getting into the game. Already, I'm noticing more support for Victini. It's not as large as Zoroark, but Victini will eventually gain considerably more support to be in the game. He is having two movies next month , which will boost that support. Did you know Lucario also had a movie on that month in 2005, three months before Brawl went into development. Same thing here, Victni gets his movie on July, 2011 and develop starts three months after.

Yes...

Well then let's discuss some Smash shall we..

Okay, I've been thinking of a couple of WTF characters that might be in Smash, here are a few..

Tetris: even though he's owned by Tetris and is 3rd party they have a good history with Nintendo

Starman: yes, this guy would fit the bill perfectly.

Dog Hunt Dog: He's one of the most iconic retro characters Nintendo has, if they somehow decided to put him in, I think everybody would be surprised.

Wart: Its sad to say but it's true, he hasn't been in any recent games since SMB2, last one being on Game Boy Advance, if any retro character deserves to be glorified and revived it's this guy.

I basically stated characters that have a chance, but no one is really expecting it.

I think at this rate, if people keep discussing WTF characters, there will be no character that nobody really expect, at least those with realistic expectations, destroying the point of a "WTF" character. I'm not saying we can't discuss them, I just personally see no point in doing them and the only one I can see as a shock to everyone is either a non-video game character or an obscure third-party character, both of which are extremely unlikely.

I believe that his chances for Smash 4 have clearly gone up, and if Brawl meant anything then it is most likely that Jiggs might get replaced by the ever so popular Meowth, who has also been demanded heavily by fans, I think it's time Meowth made his grand appearance as a playable character.

Not going to happen. If Meowth is going to get in, he's going to be taking the second newcomer spot in a five slot situation, which we have no clue on who gets it, considering that he also has to worry about Mewtwo, Lucario, and one of Zoroark/Victini getting the slot instead. I do want to see him in and he is among the most likely first gen newcomer, just that we can't really predict who gets the fifth slot if any are available. And beside, if Jigglypuff gets the boot, expect a lot of outrage to occur and if Mewtwo's removal was anything, Sakurai wants to avoid that.

Then again Sonic or Snake haven't been on Nintendo much either.

Snake is getting a remake on the 3DS and Sonic continues to have the majority of his titles on the Wii/DS/3DS and soon Wii-U.

But if you want to talk about Square-Enix, then Slime is the most probable character to represent Square, he's also been in a recent Mario game and will be in an upcoming one, IMO his chances look pretty good.

Can't really say I agree. Mega Man will most likely take the third slot and a fourth slot is up in the air, so I'm of the opinion that all possible fourth third-party characters are unlikely at best.

 

[Gamingboy]

Giratina isn't evil either. No Pokemon is evil, but there are some misunderstood ones.

There are those "shadow pokemon" from the Stadium/Coliseum games, but even those aren't evil so much as brainwashed...

 

[Reyairia]

Zoroark probably wouldn't, he was just ordered by his trainer to do antagonistic things. He's actually a protagonist.That's why I think Zoroark and Victini have equal chances of getting into the game.

By definition, none of the pokemon are evil. Not even Mewtwo, even if it was the villain rep of Pokemon in Melee. But Zoroark is clearly the Lucario of fifth gen so I'm 90% sure Zoroark will replace Lucario.

 

[Xhampi]

Darkrai is evil in Pokemon mystery dungeon 2, he tried twice to paralyse the pokemon world and then try to kill you, your partner and cresellia.

 

[OmegaXXII]

-Can't really say I agree. Mega Man will most likely take the third slot and a fourth slot is up in the air, so I'm of the opinion that all possible fourth third-party characters are unlikely at best.

Lol.. I never said anything about Capcom or Megaman not getting in, I was clearly stating that IF we were to get a Square rep, Slime would be most likely, inever said he had more of a chance than Megaman.

Also, I was only trying to bring up some thoughts about WTF characters, but if you don't want to be spoiled by such suggestions then you'll be dissapointed in this thread.

 

[Oasis_S]

Considering pretty much every possible character was brought up at some point before Brawl's release, most people on here shouldn't be surprised by any character that may appear on Sm4sh's roster.

Sukapon for Sm4sh. >8OOO

 

[Reyairia]

Pretty much, you might as well stay away from smash4 speculation threads altogether.
Although I don't remember anybody bringing up ROB last time.

 

[Oasis_S]

Although I don't remember anybody bringing up ROB last time.

Because he was supposedly "deconfirmed" rather early on with the Subspace update, then even more so when it showed the R.O.B. Squad as regular enemies. The thread was there though. I suggested he'd hover around~ :V

Incidentally, where did the Demille support go?

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Reyairia]

I'm going to throw a guess and say we'll get 42. I don't think we'll have that many additions this time around.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'm going to throw a guess and say we'll get 42. I don't think we'll have that many additions this time around.

Well not exactly, see Brawl had 39 characters including transformations, and according to THIS Sakurai doesn't want to double the roster or stages, so if that indicates anything I'd say a good number would be 48/49 characters with transformations included.

Of course, he may not want it that way, and I fear Sakurai might not even add more than 40 characters? If low numbers like that were to be true, Smash 4 would be an upsetting game to alot of it's loyal fans, because of the mentality of wanting to see and have more characters.

 

[Conviction]

I'm not really into the whole "we need DBZ amount" characters thing. I'll be perfectly fine with 45 or something like that. Omega, Sakurai said he just doesn't want to add to the old game, that's when he mentioned the characters and stages, it was a joke. He was basically saying he is going to do more than just add characters and stages.

This makes me excited because I'm guessing the gameplay and modes will be the focus this time around.

EDIT:FFUUUU- I'm still tired and thinking backwards, changed what I said.

 

[Oasis_S]

I'm going to say the roster should be... between 46 and 51 characters.

Take the 39 character Brawl roster, cut 3, add 10 newcomers, and that's a 46 character roster.

Brawl roster, cut 3, 12 newcomers, 48 roster.

Brawl roster, no cuts, 12 newcomers, 51 roster.

I think that sounds reasonable. I would be very disappointed if we got less than 46...

 

[Reyairia]

Well not exactly, see Brawl had 39 characters including transformations, I also heard somewhere that Sakurai doesn't want to double the roster or stages, so if that indicates anything I'd say a good number would be 48/49 characters with transformations included.

Of course, he may not want it that way, and I fear Sakurai might not even add more than 40 characters? If low nbers were to be true, Smash 4 would be an upsetting game to alot of it's loyal fans, because of the mentality of wanting to see and have more characters.

I meant 42 without transformations included.
I figure he didn't want too many characters because it's very difficult to balance a big roster, but now that he is going to have more help this time around he might add more?
Still though, I don't see many more additional characters. At least not to already represented franchises.

 

[Conviction]

"He did not feel that it would be right to just increase the volume, adding 50 characters or doubling the stages for instance. He also felt it would be wrong to just improve the visuals. This is why he felt that selecting to make the game for the console just because it would have greater performance would be wrong."

IMO, he is saying he is going to be focusing on other things than just stages and characters.

 

[OmegaXXII]

..thus reducing the overall number of characters in the roster, but IMO it won't increase by much, just a couple of slots.

And yea, focusing on features such as online and multiplayer will definetly make this game feel better, and the fact that Sakurai has Sora to help him out will just make things a bit more exciting.

 

[Hoots]

"He did not feel that it would be right to just increase the volume, adding 50 characters or doubling the stages for instance. He also felt it would be wrong to just improve the visuals. This is why he felt that selecting to make the game for the console just because it would have greater performance would be wrong."

IMO, he is saying he is going to be focusing on other things than just stages and characters.

Well I saw that quote retranslated by some forum user who was smarter than some journalist and the gist I got was that with the WiiU, he doesn't have to CHOOSE between having 50 characters, doubling the stages, and having good graphics, along with addons something new because with the WiiU's power he could do ALL of that. At least that's how I read it.

 

[Conviction]

After seeing Melee I know Sakurai is a great man and when he kills himself he can make a great Smash game LOL, Brawl is really good too but I don't blame him for the errors in it (okay well maybe tripping is something that can't be excused). Now that he has his brainpower + a great team to work with I'm sure the gameplay will turn out nicely. If they do it right, it can be best Smash out of the four.

@Hoots - That's even better homie. Actually now that I think about it, I think you interp. is probably right because, Nintendo has been boasting the Wii U's power and apparently they went back to work on increasing when the "50% higher than the PS3" thing came out, to make it even stronger.

EDIT: I just got my paycheck, I got my money for the Wii U saved now.

 

[Oasis_S]

Something else to take into account is that Brawl was sort of built from the ground up (I think?). I know they used a new engine for it. ANYWAY, he said the first thing they'll do is port over the basics from Brawl. I figure tweaking that will take less time than actually building everything up.

 

[Hoots]

After seeing Melee I know Sakurai is a great man and when he kills himself he can make a great Smash game LOL, Brawl is really good too but I don't blame him for the errors in it (okay well maybe tripping is something that can't be excused). Now that he has his brainpower + a great team to work with I'm sure the gameplay will turn out nicely. If they do it right, it can be best Smash out of the four.

@Hoots - That's even better homie.

Agreed... homie. While tripping and the ATROCIOUS Subspace Emissary were unforgivable, I still love Brawl. Oh yeah and the horrible balance... and coin launcher... and stickers... and masterpieces... and the painfully bad stage builder... and the crap online... Whatever, man. He added Diddy Kong and Wario so Brawl>Melee. However, I think he can look back at the horrible mistakes and learn.

@Oasis: I certainly hope they'd port over the basics. That would save them a ton of time and I still loved Brawl's physics engine

 

[zkwid]

It would be soooo cool if you could draw your own emblem or even draw own costumes (Like in that WiiU Tekken game they showed) with the tablet controller! I would love that! Or even make own pictochat(ich) stages. This could be so cool! : D

Edit: It also be cool if they supported other bluetooth/USB controllers so that you can play with almost any controller you want! :3

 

[Conviction]

Agreed... homie. While tripping and the ATROCIOUS Subspace Emissary were unforgivable, I still love Brawl. Oh yeah and the horrible balance... and coin launcher... and stickers... and masterpieces... and the painfully bad stage builder... and the crap online... Whatever, man. He added Diddy Kong and Wario so Brawl>Melee. However, I think he can look back at the horrible mistakes and learn.

LOL, that's overkill dog. I wasn't going to pull all those things XD

I hope one thing he does fix is that coding in the hitstun in Brawl that let's people cancel it and live to about 150%+. It makes characters with a hard time killing suck even more when it comes to killing, lol Fox is light as hell in Brawl and I can live to 170% when my SDI is on point with correct momentum canceling.

Brawl hitstun=Melee's Hitstun, the only difference is the coding error I mentioned.

 

[Deleted member]

By definition, none of the pokemon are evil. Not even Mewtwo, even if it was the villain rep of Pokemon in Melee. But Zoroark is clearly the Lucario of fifth gen so I'm 90% sure Zoroark will replace Lucario.

Can't really say that I totally agree with this. The only reason why Mewtwo was removed was because of time restraint. The only character that could have possibly been replaced was Pichu was because he was never planned for Brawl and his suppose replacement (Pra & Mai, rumored to be Plusle and Minun) didn't get in either. I would not be surprise if Lucario gets planned but scraped due to the same thing and becomes available via DLC (If there is one). So I don't think Lucario is getting replaced, just removed. As shown with Brawl, Sakurai doesn't like to remove characters very much and if he had more time, Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario (Possibly as an Mario alt) would have return as playable characters.

There's also the possibility that if we get five slots, Lucario could keep his slot. I'm not prepared to say that there is a pattern for replacements yet after it has happened just once.

Lol.. I never said anything about Capcom or Megaman not getting in, I was clearly stating that IF we were to get a Square rep, Slime would be most likely, inever said he had more of a chance than Megaman.

I know that, I just don't think that any other third-party character stands a good chance of getting in. Personally, when it comes to four slots for third-party characters, I would put it's chances at 50/50 with a late 40s character selection screen, going up depending on how many slots are in SSB4.

Considering pretty much every possible character was brought up at some point before Brawl's release, most people on here shouldn't be surprised by any character that may appear on Sm4sh's roster.

Sukapon for Sm4sh. >8OOO

That's why I said that I predict no "WTF" characters for SSB4 and instead, two retro characters, one with high requests and another that a group expects to be in.

Although I don't remember anybody bringing up ROB last time.

I think R.O.B. was speculated on by a new nSiders members before the game came out.

So how does this all look? I've heard it said several times that it would be possible to accomplish >45 characters on a roster, including transformations at that. Perhaps this escapes my memory, but doesn't have brawl have about 35 without them?

It just seems to me that we've been discussing a wide variety of potential characters that surpases that amount.

It is most certainly possible for us to get more then 45 slots in the game, but that depends on many factors:

- Will the 3DS and Wii-U version share the same roster?
- How conservative Sakurai is when adding characters?
- How many cuts are made?
- How much focus will Sakurai put on balance?

Well not exactly, see Brawl had 39 characters including transformations, I also heard somewhere that Sakurai doesn't want to double the roster or stages, so if that indicates anything I'd say a good number would be 48/49 characters with transformations included.

Of course, he may not want it that way, and I fear Sakurai might not even add more than 40 characters? If low nbers were to be true, Smash 4 would be an upsetting game to alot of it's loyal fans, because of the mentality of wanting to see and have more characters.

That article doesn't say anything about not having fifty characters in the game; all he implied was that he doesn't JUST want to do that. I'm not saying a 46 or greater roster will happen, but I don't think that articles said anything against that either. If he had said "There will be less than 50 characters", we would have more concrete information to work on.

As for the second paragraph, unless the 3DS and Wii-U share the same roster, the chances of that happening is next to zero. All other evidence argue against such a small roster and if that were to happen, expect the team to loss millions of potential customers. One of the main points of Super Smash Bros. is to play with your favorite characters from Nintendo history and I doubt Sakurai would want to neglect that important part of the game. I have 100% confidence that if the rosters are different, we will be seeing at least 40 slots and most likely at least 44 slots.

 

[Conviction]

Found a perfect example of what I mean LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dupHQk5whio

 

[Hoots]

Found a perfect example of what I mean LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dupHQk5whio

Wow! Spazz much, Iblis? But seriously, your Fox is ****ing intense. I think Sakurai did that to make sure light characters with bad killing power like Diddy didn't get owned immediately before they could rack up enough damage and get a kill themselves.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I just had an idea to incorporate Megaman's Copy ability.


Whenever Megaman KO's an opponent, his special ability is saved on one of his Taunts.


After you KO your opponent, when you press a Taunt button, you switch the B technique with an enemy skill.


Assuming there are 4 taunt buttons (up, down, left, and right), each player on the screen will have their technique saved to a different taunt button when they're KO'd by Megaman.

So for example...


Megaman takes down Ganondorf, then Yoshi, then Kirby. (There can only be 3 opponents on the screen. Counting Megaman, there are 4 characters, meaning one taunt per character skill).

His skills are saved to:

LEFT: Ganondorf
UP: Yoshi
RIGHT: Kirby
DOWN: Megaman


Note: The moves themselves are not saved to the D-pad. The D-pad would allow you to switch between gained skills to replace your "B" or "B>"

 

[Conviction]

Wow! Spazz much, Iblis? But seriously, your Fox is ****ing intense. I think Sakurai did that to make sure light characters with bad killing power like Diddy didn't get owned immediately before they could rack up enough damage and get a kill themselves.

Lol I'm a little bit better than average atm, I'm getting better with practicing with the best person in my state. But back to the topic, I hope he could find someway to fix that, maybe kill power balancing so the mechanics of hitstun don't become stupid again haha.

@Echi: I like your idea.

 

[Hoots]

I just had an idea to incorporate Megaman's Copy ability.


Whenever Megaman KO's an opponent, his special ability is saved on one of his Taunts.


After you KO your opponent, when you press a Taunt button, you switch the B technique with an enemy skill.


Assuming there are 4 taunt buttons (up, down, left, and right), each player on the screen will have their technique saved to a different taunt button when they're KO'd by Megaman.

So for example...


Megaman takes down Ganondorf, then Yoshi, then Kirby. (There can only be 3 opponents on the screen. Counting Megaman, there are 4 characters, meaning one taunt per character skill).

His skills are saved to:

LEFT: Ganondorf
UP: Yoshi
RIGHT: Kirby
DOWN: Megaman


Note: The moves themselves are not saved to the D-pad. The D-pad would allow you to switch between gained skills to replace your "B" or "B>"

This wouldn't really work for 1v1, where he could only get one power. To be honest, I think they'll just give him 3 of the more iconic boss powers and call it a day.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Conviction]

Ah, I didn't think of that. It wouldn't work out well in 1v1's. Either do what Hoots said or make it where Megaman's side B's are like the leaf shield, etc. in MvC2, or the rapid fire gun, drill, etc. in TvC as Megaman's specials and I'll be fine with it.

 

[shinhed-echi]

This wouldn't really work for 1v1, where he could only get one power. To be honest, I think they'll just give him 3 of the more iconic boss powers and call it a day.

Maybe so.. (But remember Sakurai doesn't see it as a 1on1 game).

And copy ability is what makes Megaman special as a character. Not having it is like Sonic not being able to spin, so I think it'll be included.


Of course I'd be happy with things like Leaf Shield (Woodman), Fire Shot (Fireman), and Hard Knuckle (Hardman)

 

[Conviction]

LiM8d, you didn't quote it all because you didn't want to be like me and take up 3/4 of a page (LOL my last multi-quote almost took up my whole page and I use 40 post per page)