New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Conviction]

Yeah the ****** almost ruined the game for me! Good thing I can force myself to forget things.

 

[yani_]

@Metal Overlord I really like your roster, except for another WarioWare rep. Not my cup of tea, but just my opinion

 

[Metal Overlord]

@yani- Your lucky I didn't include Misty in my roster

 

[Oasis_S]

It's usually not a good idea to read Ike-Sama's posts in general.

 

[Conviction]

Yeah I forgot how bad his posts were in the past.

Gross

10barfs

 

[Arcadenik]

Okay, here's my revamped SSB4 roster. 54 playable characters... 24 newcomers and 30 veterans. Expect controversial cuts and biased/questionable choices... but overall, I think it looks pretty great. I am usually not too conservative, you know, but within reason. Happy Thanksgiving!

Marioverse 1
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Toad
Bowser

Marioverse 2
Donkey Kong

Spoiler

Diddy Kong / Dixie Kong

Spoiler

King K. Rool

Yoshi
Wario

Zeldaverse
Link
Zelda

Spoiler

Impa

Spoiler

Demise

Spoiler

Tingle

Kid Icarus & Metroid
Pit
Palutena

Spoiler

Medusa

Samus / Zero Suit Samus

Spoiler

Ridley

Kirby & Mother
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Ness

Spoiler

Lucas

Star Fox & Fire Emblem
Fox

Spoiler

Falco

Spoiler

Wolf

Marth

Spoiler

Chrome

Pokemon
Pikachu

Spoiler

Meowth

Spoiler

Mewtwo

Spoiler

Zoroark

Snivy / Pignite / Samurott (Pokemon Trainer)

Classic Nintendo
Ice Climbers

Spoiler

R.O.B.

Spoiler

Duck Hunt Dog

Little Mac
Takamaru

Modern Nintendo
Captain Falcon
Olimar
Starfy

Spoiler

Isa Jo

Spoiler

Matthew

Console & Third-Party Mascots
Mii

Spoiler

Mr. Game & Watch

Spoiler

Sonic

Spoiler

Mega Man

Spoiler

Slime

 

[Conviction]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

 

[Deleted member]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[SmashChu]

Smashchu going in with those hyperbolic insults!

But he's still wrong.

The truth is that I am not one of those that tries to do nicities. If you said something stupid, I'll call it out. And guess what. You said something that is immensely ********. But here, let me explain ti too you.

If Sakurai looked at characters he would add Toad, Jr, Daisy, Waluigi, and Rosalina.

If he looked at series he would realize that is ridiculous.

We'll cut the argument here and see what happens.

It's clear you have no idea of what's going on, so I'll explain it. There are two ways we are saying Sakurai will add characters.

Characters are added based on the series. This is what you are saying. This is saying characters additions are linked to the series itself. So if a series does well, it gets more characters. if it does bad, it gets less. Naturally, we'd expect to see some kind of trend with series. Series like Donkey Kong and Metroid would haave more characters and Starfox, Mother and F-Zero would have less. We'd also expect a TON of Pokemon and Mario characters.

Characters are added based on their personal merit. This is what I'm saying. This means that the characters are independent of any other force and are added based on simply the characters. There would also be more competition between characters. We'd expect to see more popular characters and character added regardless if their series is doing well. We'd expect to see a large part of the roster with characters added that are really popular.

OK, so we have these. Now look at the rosters. I'll count out how much each series has and I'll also post it's respective sales. For now, I will only do Brawl's roster, but we could add Melee characters for completeness. Also, not counting Sheik, ZSS and PT any differently.
All in millions

Mario:4
Sales:417.20 (although there is still more)
Donkey Kong: 2
Sales:55.47
Legend of Zelda:4
Sales: 57.83
Metroid: 1
Sales:15.73
Yoshi: 1
Sales:~22.15
Kirby:3
Sales:30.47
Starfox: 3
Sales:10.8
Pokemon:4
Sales: 204.97
F-Zero: 1
Sales: 5.11
Mother: 2
Sales: 1.65
Fire Emblem: 2
Sales: 3.9
Wario: 1
Sales: 21.15

Notice something? The sales and the number of characters does not line up. Some facts

• Donkey Kong has half the characters and aalmost the same number of sales
• Wario beats out most oof the series and has only 1 characters
• Mother and Fire Emblem have far less than other series with better sales and fewer characters (Yoshi and Metroid come to mind)
• Mario and Pokemon haave a TOn of sales, but still only 4 characters. Compaare this to Zelda, which has maybe a fourth of the sales and the same number of characters
• Starfox only sold 10 million but has more characters than most of the series, including Donkey Kong.

Notice how there isn't a correlation. If characters were added based on the series, wouldn't we see Donkey Kong have more, Starfox have less, and Fire Emblem and Mother forever be on 1? Yet that doesn't happen. To make it clearer, I'm going to make a table that shows, side by side, how the series link up in terms of rank. One side is sales and the other is number of characters. You'd expect if series was the determining factor, they would line up rather nicely or pretty close.

Rank by sales
Mario
Pokemon
Zelda
Donkey Kong
Kirby
Yoshi
Wario
Metroid
Starfox
F-Zero
Fire Emblem
Mother

Now, by number of characters
Mario
Pokemon
Legend of Zelda
Kirby
Starfox
Donkey Kong
Mother
Fire Emblem
Metroid
F-Zero
Wario
Yoshi

Except for the tippy top, there is no connection. What does this mean? That the series itself has little or no barring on who gets added into Smash Brothers.

Now let's look at a comment you made.

If Sakurai looked at characters he would add Toad, Jr, Daisy, Waluigi, and Rosalina.

Well, what have we learned today. First, when characters are added by characters themselves, we tend to pick characters that people really like. Does anyone really want Daisy in the next game? Or better yet, does anyone want Daisy over King K. Rool, Little Mac, Ridley, or Mii? Probably not. So if he does this, he wouldn't be adding characters based on their merit.

But the other side is adding characters based on the series. We know now that adding characters based on a series would mean that we'd look at the series first. We'll, Ok, how is Mario doing. Mario has sold over 400 million copies in it's lifetime. The next highest contender is Pokemon at half that. So we could add Daisy and the rest as the series is much bigger. Maybe we could say the series deserves it.

I think the point makes itself. So what have we seen. Well, we saw that there isn't much of a correlation between the number of characters and the series success. Outside Pokemon and Mario, there is no correlation. We can also tell Sakurai adds more characters from series who don't "deserve," it. Like Lucas or Wolf.

About that work. Deserve. That is a byproduct of using the series method. The argument for Metroid and Donkey Kong would now be "deserves," It has come up a lot. In reality, it is just a way for people to try to legitimize adding certain characters without really questioning "Is this character good." You see, that is the name of the game. "Is the character good?"

I'll finish with this. HyperFalcon said we should stop arguing because we'll never know what Sakurai adds. I say that's a quitters way out. We haave a decent idea of where to go. When I made my roster, I did it with one idea: "Is the character good?" Basically, is that character worthy. Is that character important. Are they interesting. Would people like them. And then I can draw on an answer. I think we could have Palutena and Medusa because they are both good characters in the same way I'd suggest King K. Rool and Dixie. They are important, interesting and are very likable. So when you all discuss characters, stop talking about the series. Talk about the characters themselves.

 

[Opossum]

Happy Thanksgiving to all, I hope you all enjoy your day.

In other news, I opened up a new Alliance for Muddy Mole. I am once again trying to increase awareness of this Nintendo mole.

I really would enjoy seeing him in SSB4, especially with a digging mechanic.

 

[---]

Happy Thanksgiving!

I gotta agree with Smashchu on everything over the last few pages, for a second there I thought I'd have to get out Toise's old post on Sales. lol

Nice to see Ike-Sama back, and while I could get at him for dissing KI, I won't since I'm quite happy...

Yay! I'm a Champion now!

 

[Diddy Kong]

After completing Skyward Sword I really, really want

Spoiler

Ghirahim, Demise or IMPA

playable. These characters should all really work out well.

Spoiler

Especially Impa, replacing Sheik! But anyone would notice on the last fight against Ghirahim that he'd work out greatly for Smash. Demise could be the Ganon we all wanted, with the great sword and all. Also, he's way cooler than Ganon.

So my Zelda roster would be: Link, Zelda (seperate)

Spoiler

Ghirahim or Demise (preferably both), and Impa

. No Toon Link, no Sheik, no Ganon.

Also still really hope they fix Link in Smash. Give him some wicked fast sword slashing for AAA for example (doing up to maybe, 12~14%) and his Sword Beam especially how it works in Skyward Sword

Spoiler

aka Skyward Strike with the full forged Master Sword

for his Side B.

 

[Oasis_S]

What if Link could only do a sword beam while he has 0% damage, lol.

When I made my roster, I did it with one idea: "Is the character good?" Basically, is that character worthy. Is that character important. Are they interesting. Would people like them. And then I can draw on an answer.

Sheriff?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Happy Thanksgiving to y'all, too!

Well nvm discussions seem to be picking up now

Anyways, my most wanted third party characters: Viewtiful Joe, Cassandra (Soul Calibur), Dr. Robotnik, Classic Mega Man and Pac-Man

 

[Conviction]

Not finished with SS but I want previous mentioned characters in his spoilers.

They would be great additions.

In Naryu Silent Realm.

We out.

 

[Aurane]

I celebrated my thanksgiving yesterday due to working, and no one came :'( But anways, Happy Thanksgiving to all! Roast up the turkeys and eat ALL the Potatoes!

 

[Diddy Kong]

What if Link could only do a sword beam while he has 0% damage, lol.

Have you played SS? If so you'd know

Spoiler

that even with the Goddess Sword Link can always do a Sword Beam / Skyward Strike, he can charge it up, walk around with it and use it till about 5 seconds later. This would give Link a lot more freedom, and mindgames. With the Master Sword the beam becomes much stronger also.

Imo, a perfect replacement for the Boomerang.

Spoiler

Don't bring up the Beetle please though. -_-

 

[Conviction]

I completely agree.

 

[---]

Sounds like SS has just the buffs Link needs to get back in the game and out of F Tier.

 

[Deleted member]

My try at a 100-character roster:
Super Mario Bros.:
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Toad
6. Paper Mario
7. Bowser Jr.
8. Dr. Mario

Donkey Kong:
1. Donkey Kong
2. Diddy Kong
3. King K. Rool
4. Dixie Kong

Yoshi:
1. Yoshi

Wario:
1. Wario
2. Orbulon
3. Captain Syrup
4. 9-Volt

The Legend of Zelda:
1. Link
2. Zelda/Sheik
3. Ganondorf
4. Toon Link
5. Ghirahim
6. Tingle
7. Vaati

Metroid:
1. Samus
2. Ridley

Kirby:
1. Kirby
2. Meta-Knight
3. King Dedede
4. Knuckle Joe
5. Bandanna Dee

Star Fox:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Wolf
4. Krystal

Pokemon:
1. Pikachu
2. Jigglypuff
3. Meowth
4. Mewtwo
5. Pokemon Trainer
6. Ditto
7. Eevee
8. Pichu
9. Heracross
10. Scizor
11. Ethan (Totodile/Bayleef/Typhlosion)
12. Plusle & Minun
13. Deoxys
14. May (Mudkip/Grovyle/Blaziken)
15. Lucario
16. Gallade
17. Victini
18. Genesect
19. Meloetta
20. Scrafty
21. Bisharp
22. Zorua

F-zero:
1. Captain Falcon
2. Samurai Goroh
3. Black Shadow

Mother:
1. Ness
2. Lucas

Fire Emblem:
1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Roy
4. Leaf
5. Black Knight
6. Caeda

Kid Icarus:
1. Pit
2. Palutena
3. Medusa

Pikmin:
1. Olimar

Retro series:
1. Ice Climbers
2. Mr. Game & Watch
3. R.O.B.
4. Takamaru
5. Lip
6. Duck Hunt Dog
7. Sheriff
8. Diskun

New series:
1. Little Mac
2. Isaac
3. Saki Amamiya
4. Starfy
5. Ray (Custom Robo)
6. Chibi-Robo
7. Mii

Third-Party:
1. Snake
2. Sonic
3. Tails
4. Mega Man
5. Ryu (Street Fighter)
6. Slime
7. Crono
8. Geno
9. Professor Layton
10. Ryu Hayabusa
11. Pac-Man
12. Bomberman
13. Strider Hiryu

And I didn't even have to go into additions I would dislike.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I completely agree.

What about:

Spoiler

After the charge you'd be able to use the beam after every sort of sword type move Link has, sans Spin Attack? Being able to use it after a Fair or Ftilt for example, not just Side B. Think it shouldn't do more than 12 to 15% though, and about 2 seconds to charge.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Indirect response to SSBF's roster:

If you ever wanted a 100-character roster, all you'd need to do is put in a bunch of Pokemon and Mario spin-off characters

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sounds like SS has just the buffs Link needs to get back in the game and out of F Tier.

Exactly. Revamped Moveset I was thinking of is:

Spoiler

B: Sacred Bow. Like before, but you're able to walk around with it, a little, and more slowly. Also being able to aim 90 degrees up and below, and in between with tilting. Uncharged arrows = 8%, fully charged = 21%
Side B: Skyward Strike, see post about it before.
AAA= sword slash, very similar to the first few hits of Link's Final Smash in Brawl in terms of knockback and power, 11~13% damage, mediocore knockback, but fast move with range

Up B and Down B can stay the same actually (yes, SS made me change my mind about bombs). Rolling bombs could be cool, but they need to buff Spin Attack.

Spoiler

And perhaps make his Nair the vertical Spin Attack from SS

 

[SmashChu]

What if Link could only do a sword beam while he has 0% damage, lol.

Be awesome.

Sheriff?

Perhaps. But I was kind of playing on the fact that there could be a kind of classic character and one no one would expect. Problem with doing these is you're guaranteed to be wrong. Sakurai will always throw a curve ball.

 

[BKupa666]

Happy Thanksgiving guys! Be sure to consume all the food items that spawn in front of you.

 

[Conviction]

@diddy: about the revamping. Also if they gave the option to roll bombs by pressing down b again, and make his fsmash his little flip slash he does I would be please.

I don't think I need spoiler tags for this post.

 

[Diddy Kong]

@diddy: about the revamping. Also if they gave the option to roll bombs by pressing down b again, and make his fsmash his little flip slash he does I would be please.

I don't think I need spoiler tags for this post.

Yeah, that would work with the rolling bomb thing. I actually like the animation for Link's Fsmash in Brawl a lot. It kind of reminds me of the Mortal Draw from TP. But I'm all for it if they put in that move (I call it vertical Spin Attack) for his Nair.

 

[Oasis_S]

Perhaps. But I was kind of playing on the fact that there could be a kind of classic character and one no one would expect. Problem with doing these is you're guaranteed to be wrong. Sakurai will always throw a curve ball.

How do you even envision him? Or is it just a wild guess.

I mean, I guess a stereotypical cowboy is something Smash does not have. Still pretty weird.

AND I DON'T WANT CURVEBALLS. I WANT TO BE RIGHT. HUUUUARRRGH.

 

[Conviction]

Hmmm either Nair or Fair. Nair is one of links redeeming factors so idk if taking it out would be beneficial or determental.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Unfortunately that's true, but I imagine this move would be quicker, stronger and would have more range, plus it'd cover both his back and his front. Like Toon Link's Nair actually, but better.

 

[Conviction]

Well I'm all for testing!

 

[Deleted member]

I just want to bring up something.

Lets assume that in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Sakurai knew what Krystal was, liked what he saw, and put her in as the third Star Fox character in Smash (with neither Fox or Falco being cut). Then we get Star Fox 64 3D and it performs the same as it does here.

How likely do you think it would be for us to get Wolf in as the fourth Star Fox rep? I would say a much better odd then it is now (not that I want a fourth Star Fox character, but I'm not against it either).

 

[Metal Overlord]

Pretty likely since Wolf is more important to the series than Krystal

 

[Starphoenix]

Sorry, I do not do what ifs as they serve no purpose.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@SSBF: Nice roster. I'd put more Yoshi and Mother characters in before that many Pokemon, though. Likewise, needs more Impa as well.(regardless of Sheik)

Also, more retro and Third Party. Needs more Brian.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Muddy Mold alliance? I'm not sure I'm into that. I've never played his game before or even seen footage of it.

If Fatmanonice ever returns, I bet he'd jump at the chance though

 

[Deleted member]

Muddy Mold alliance? I'm not sure I'm into that. I've never played his game before or even seen footage of it.

If Fatmanonice ever returns, I bet he'd jump at the chance though

Can't really say I care much for Muddy Mole either.

@HyperFalcon: I forgot that I want to see Strider Hiryu in as well. Adding him and dropping Majora's Mask Link.

 

[Opossum]

I suggest looking into it. It was a nice little Action/Puzzle game for the Game Boy.

I just think Muddy Mole can give something that Smash needs more of: trap users. He'd make for a nice retro choice, as well as being able to bring a nice digging mechanic. His game from what I have seen is pretty great, too. When I get a 3DS and it comes to the 3DS Virtual Console, I'm definitely buying it. As an added plus, he was made by Miyamoto. He'd fit in as well, seeing as that was one of Sakurai's requirements.


Anyway, I remember hearing somewhere that Sakurai was looking into him for a previous Smash game. Can anyone verify that? I've been trying to find it, but to no avail.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@SSBF: Strider is awesome, I will admit.

I like Majora's Mask Link though...

Anyway, I'd remove 9-Volt for Kamek at the very least. I think a lot of other series could've used a little love besides Pokemon myself. Not to say those weren't good choices, though. (except Sheriff, I'd rather have DHD myself, but eh)

 

[Opossum]

My thing against Sheriff is that he sort of takes away from Game and Watch's 2-D gimmick. I mean, you could give him a 3-D Model, but then it just wouldn't seem like Sheriff. I mean, Pit was originally 2-D, but in his Melee trophy he was at least 3-D. Sheriff was still 2-D, probably due to age. I don't know, I guess I just think Sakurai would rather have him 2-D if anything, seeing as how he was done before. Admittedly, a cowboy moveset with his pistol, lasso, maybe a quick draw move, and spur kicks would be pretty cool. But there's always Dillon for a cowboy if his game does well or if Sakurai likes him.

By the way, does anyone know when Dillon's Rolling Western is going to be released?