New Mario Matchup Thread!

[Zonderion]

I just want to say that I didn't mean to come off harsh. Sorry about that. Also, what I said a couple months ago was a bit outdated even then. At that time, I was paying slightly less attention to the meta than usual.

As for the Pikachu MU, it's a pretty solid 60:40 in Mario's favor. As an example, ESAM himself said that he needed a secondary just for that MU. Quick Attack, one of the main/only moves that keeps Pikachu relevant, is utterly destroyed by Mario's U-smash, since it gets caught in it as Pikachu tries to move around the stage with it, netting Mario early KOs. This means that Pikachu pretty much can't use it offensively in the MU which is huge. Another thing is that Cape destroys Quick Attack, as well, by reflecting it which can net super early kills, forcing Pikachu to be even more careful with using it.

TL:DR Pikachu's Quick Attack (the most important move he has) gets trashed by Mario. Also, Pikachu is pretty easy to combo and dies early.

In the case of MK, I have less experience with the MU, but I will tell you what I know. Currently, I would judge it at 55:45 to 60:40 in Mario's favor. MK has no combo breakers, relatively weak air speed (too weak to escape Mario's combos, at least), fast falling speed (which makes him even better combo fodder), very light weight, and no longer has a quick kill combo that can make Mario play careful. So, pretty much, you have a character that Mario can feast on with his combos and that he can kill super early. What MK has over Mario is amazing edge-guarding and a top 3 recovery.

So, overall I would say it's maybe a strong 55:45 in Mario's favor or a weak 60:40 in Mario's favor.

I hope this helps you!

This is exactly what I was looking for! I picked Mario up earlier this week and I'm already having tons of fun with him. Knowing these things will really help. Thanks!

 

[righteousrook73]

Hey Jump-Men,

I'm a main and I'm eager to see a full matchup chart for him. Is this going to be the main thread for all his MUs, or will there be individual MU threads like y'all mentioned earlier? I'd love to contribute to the discussion.

 

[Xandercosm]

Hey Jump-Men,

I'm a main and I'm eager to see a full matchup chart for him. Is this going to be the main thread for all his MUs, or will there be individual MU threads like y'all mentioned earlier? I'd love to contribute to the discussion.

Currently, the best way to contribute is to check out the Mario Discord. Go here to see all character Discords: http://smashcord.com/character.html

Same goes for you too, Zonderion , the Mario Discord is a great place to learn the character. There are tons of people there that are ready and willing to give advice, give constructive criticism, and discuss Mario.

 

[Sucio Guapo]

FUN FACT: The last four players who have beaten Zero in bracket have all played Mario at some point.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I like to use and maybe . Who do best against Mario? like how does each do against Mario?

 

[CGod]

Marth and sonic do well against Mario

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

i think mario loses to Little Mac, in the ground is 40 - 60, off stage is 70 - 30

I agree. has amazing stage control. From the Edge with no Platforms to help you mix up your recovery you don't have a lot of options can't easily cover with his speed alone. Platforms probably help a lot in the MU. But not sure how much they hinder a competent Player.

I guess they could make it easier to recover and continue your combos. But you need to grab the speedy little dude first lol.

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

I'm pretty sure the match up for Mario vs Pit/Dark Pit is in the Pits favor only because of reach. Mario has some trouble against sword characters in general. However, I don't think it should be in there favor just because of that. Mario is faster and hits really hard. Pit's arrows can be reflected (as can Mario's fireballs), but the point is they don't change the match up all that much. This is strictly in my personal experience.

I 100% agree with this statement. I thought maybe I was just really bad at the game. (I probably am).

But every time I enter a tournament I ALWAYS get beaten by an . No matter how much I study the MU. Or How much I lab it.

, , , / ,/, (some how) , and isn't as bad but its still sorta of difficult for to get in. He already has a really generic approach game to begin with in my opinion.

If you can't approach with Fire Balls or Dash Grab. And don't even dare attempt to Dash Attack what else can you do but try to space with Bair or Mix it Up with a SH Dair.

I honestly do not know how to even get in on a lot of these characters. Not to mention stringing most of these characters is risky due to their Counters. Not saying Counters are OP and yes, you can bait a counter and go for a grab. But Sheesh.

Also and are probably not really in Mario's favor.

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

I like to use and maybe . Who do best against Mario? like how does each do against Mario?

and come to mind. if you don't wanna worry about getting FLUDD'd off stage. also can't string for free because of his Nair. Dunno if his Nair is a get out of string move, but it comes out fast.

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

Greninja is pretty much high tier at this point. He's considered top 15 so, yeah.

In my opinion, the MU has to be 50:50 because, while Greninja can edge-guard us decently and sort of escape our combos, his frame data is really sub-par. This means that we beat him in most interactions so he is forced to calculate every move he makes against us. Also, the windbox on his Hydro Pump is pretty weak after it got nerfed into the ground. To add to that, people make Mario's recovery out to be a lot worse than it really is. He has the airspeed to maneuver around edge-guard attempts and he can stall with cape. Also, his Up-Special is frame 3, meaning he can beat out a lot of moves with it. Not to mention, you can angle it in different directions.

I think Greninja gives us trouble, but if played smart instead of aggressive, the MU is definitely even.

Same. vs is like vs but so much easier for to manage.

while fast, isn't too fast to punish or deal with. Most of his moves are pretty easy to punish. Projectile isn't really all that great so we can zone him out if you really wanna play the long game. And with a lot of MU should play the long game if you ask me.

's recovery also isn't free as heck like 's is. So also can abuse that in the sense of having strong stage control. Even on Platforms and lets say Hydro Pumps onto the Top Platform of Battlefield. can probably catch him with a Uair or even Up B if he reads the recovery. If he goes for the lower Platforms, Bair, Nair, Up B, Nair, whatever really.

I mean how far does recovery actually go? I know he has Shadow Sneak but isn't that really risky to do offstage in terms of recovering?

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

Could anyone enlighten me on the Mario vs Rosa matchup?

Pray my Child...

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

Why does Mario lose to Pit?

vs is painfully hard to play as . while he should be combo food due to his size, he's not. I've tried multiple times to combo against decent 's and if they don't Nair mid string, they just jump away.

You can't gimp him. I mean not practically, sure everyone can mess up a recovery but at high levels of play no good is going to recover from above the edge.

If you go for a ledge trump, they'll just fly back onto the stage.

also has some range on . Arrows, Fsmash, Tilts. Not sure if Pits Dash Attack is safe or safe on shield but on his own is hard to hit.

Now he is Middle Weight so the 2nd hit (the behind the back hit) of a Down Smash from should kill at like possibly 90%-110% near the edge of the stage. Not sure at what % UpSmash kills.

But Mario isn't too heavy himself and 's got some dang strong Smashes of his own. He also has a much easier time gimping us.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I use and really struggle with and there are tons here in CO. I need to get a secondary for him. Who is the best choice? So far I've had success with . Who should I go with? Is there any others that I should use? I don't like. Please help.

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

I use and really struggle with and there are tons here in CO. I need to get a secondary for him. Who is the best choice? So far I've had success with . Who should I go with? Is there any others that I should use? I don't like. Please help.

Go with or . I'd go with honestly. You have many different tools to zone out. And while a good one will probably get in anyway. He has to get in on your terms. You don't have to come to him and there is nothing he can do to make you come to him. You can almost literally stand there and block his only projectile and pressure him with your own. Even with his Cape.

Your Jab has good range and can be a good way to stop frontal approaches like Dash Grabs or Dash Attacks. Nair for Aerial approaches. Your only issue is setting up a solid kill. Which I'd fish for Uairs, Fairs, or Usmash if you can set it up.

While Dash Attack does kill, its really easily Shielded. Try to always be moving you when you are Zoning him out. Nothing like a Moving Target to piss off let alone one with Projectiles.

Use your Side Sparingly since he can ride your Boomerang and if you don't predict right can close in any distance you did have on him.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Go with or . I'd go with honestly. You have many different tools to zone out. And while a good one will probably get in anyway. He has to get in on your terms. You don't have to come to him and there is nothing he can do to make you come to him. You can almost literally stand there and block his only projectile and pressure him with your own. Even with his Cape.

Your Jab has good range and can be a good way to stop frontal approaches like Dash Grabs or Dash Attacks. Nair for Aerial approaches. Your only issue is setting up a solid kill. Which I'd fish for Uairs, Fairs, or Usmash if you can set it up.

While Dash Attack does kill, its really easily Shielded. Try to always be moving you when you are Zoning him out. Nothing like a Moving Target to piss off let alone one with Projectiles.

Use your Side Sparingly since he can ride your Boomerang and if you don't predict right can close in any distance you did have on him.

What about ? And nvm about .

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How's the Toon Link matchup? He spaces Mario out with disjoints, beats camping with better projectiles, Bomb eats Fireball, and has relatively safe landings due to Bomb, Nair, and overall fast aerial movement. His small size may also protect him from jump-canceled USmashes on landing.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

How's the Toon Link matchup? He spaces Mario out with disjoints, beats camping with better projectiles, Bomb eats Fireball, and has relatively safe landings due to Bomb, Nair, and overall fast aerial movement. His small size may also protect him from jump-canceled USmashes on landing.

I've had no luck with toon link. All the Marios here are cape happy so projectiles don't work a lot

 

[Xandercosm]

How's the Toon Link matchup? He spaces Mario out with disjoints, beats camping with better projectiles, Bomb eats Fireball, and has relatively safe landings due to Bomb, Nair, and overall fast aerial movement. His small size may also protect him from jump-canceled USmashes on landing.

Cape really does mess with Tink's projectile game. Also, Tink has absolutely no combo breakers which means that once Mario gets in, he's gonna be dealing big damage. I think Mario definitely beats Tink solidly since he can combo him hard, edge-guard his slow predictable recovery, and reflect his projectiles. I can't say how I would rate the MU since I haven't played it enough myself. However, in theory, Mario definitely wins.

 

[Bigbomb2]

Similar to Link, I regularly get bodied by our local Mario (because he's a much better player), but it comes down to how smart and quick you are with power shielding. That shuts down both Links pretty hard. Tink has trouble if he can't get a confirm of a projectile, and Link gets combo'd super hard when you get in. And his frame data prevents a way to break out or get out of trouble up close besides jabs. Just watch out for bomb mixups from both, that's how we often counter shield and cape happy Marios.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

How do do against Mario? Like number wise (45:55, 50:50, 60:40, etc.)

 

[Xandercosm]

How do do against Mario? Like number wise (45:55, 50:50, 60:40, etc.)

I'll go with either 50:50 or 55:45 Mario's favor. I mean, it's iffy. Diddy gets comboed like mad by Mario but Mario is pretty susceptible to Banana. Pretty close MU either way.

I am not really aware of what other Marios think about this one. However, I would say it's 60:40 Mario's favor. Mario can easily get in on him and once Mario is in, Link isn't going to be in a very good situation. Link's bad mobility, weak recovery, and pretty bad frame data leave him vulnerable to all of Mario's tricks.

This one is 50:50. They both have insane frame data, both combo hard, and both are relatively fast. They fight similarly in a lot of ways and they can both KO each other pretty reliably.

I'm gonna go with 50:50 or 55:45 Mario's favor on this one. Fox's ultra fast fall speed means that Mario can combo him super hard and his linear recovery is easy for Mario to take advantage of. The thing is, Fox can also combo Mario quite hard and he has some more potent kill options (although they are less reliable) such as B-air.

Some say this is a losing MU for Mario. In my opinion, though, it's 50:50. I realize that Mewtwo outranges Mario with many of his moves and can escape his combos easily. However, Mario is very good at using Mewtwo's large hurtbox against him and the fact that U-smash kills him so early makes an already godlike move even more powerful in this MU.

60:40 Mario's favor. Roy is bad against Mario for the same reasons why he is simply a bad character all around. Awful sweetspots, fast fall speed, weak recovery, second worst aerial acceleration, etc.

This one is definitely 50:50. I happen to have a lot of experience with this MU. Corrin outranges Mario but has no combo breakers. They are just going to trade between Corrin getting a hit here or a hit there and keeping Mario at bay with his/her range and Mario getting in and racking up percent with combos that Corrin simply can't break free of.

I realize that I put a lot of emphasis on wether characters get comboed easily by Mario or not but it actually matters a ton. Comboing is a huge part of Mario as a character and if a character is very susceptible to that, then they will probably have a hard time with Mario.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I'll go with either 50:50 or 55:45 Mario's favor. I mean, it's iffy. Diddy gets comboed like mad by Mario but Mario is pretty susceptible to Banana. Pretty close MU either way.

I am not really aware of what other Marios think about this one. However, I would say it's 60:40 Mario's favor. Mario can easily get in on him and once Mario is in, Link isn't going to be in a very good situation. Link's bad mobility, weak recovery, and pretty bad frame data leave him vulnerable to all of Mario's tricks.

This one is 50:50. They both have insane frame data, both combo hard, and both are relatively fast. They fight similarly in a lot of ways and they can both KO each other pretty reliably.

I'm gonna go with 50:50 or 55:45 Mario's favor on this one. Fox's ultra fast fall speed means that Mario can combo him super hard and his linear recovery is easy for Mario to take advantage of. The thing is, Fox can also combo Mario quite hard and he has some more potent kill options (although they are less reliable) such as B-air.

Some say this is a losing MU for Mario. In my opinion, though, it's 50:50. I realize that Mewtwo outranges Mario with many of his moves and can escape his combos easily. However, Mario is very good at using Mewtwo's large hurtbox against him and the fact that U-smash kills him so early makes an already godlike move even more powerful in this MU.

60:40 Mario's favor. Roy is bad against Mario for the same reasons why he is simply a bad character all around. Awful sweetspots, fast fall speed, weak recovery, second worst aerial acceleration, etc.

This one is definitely 50:50. I happen to have a lot of experience with this MU. Corrin outranges Mario but has no combo breakers. They are just going to trade between Corrin getting a hit here or a hit there and keeping Mario at bay with his/her range and Mario getting in and racking up percent with combos that Corrin simply can't break free of.

I realize that I put a lot of emphasis on wether characters get comboed easily by Mario or not but it actually matters a ton. Comboing is a huge part of Mario as a character and if a character is very susceptible to that, then they will probably have a hard time with Mario.

Then who beats Mario? Out of the whole cast

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Then who beats Mario? Out of the whole cast

From what I've heard, played, and experienced, it seems it would be Donkey Kong, Corrin, Marth, and Pit.

I'm actually surprised Mario vs. Sheik is only 50-50, and Mario vs. Diddy is arguably in Mario's advantage.

Also, Cloud if he can maintain neutral and not get gimped. Mario in general does not like disjointed characters. Even against Ike, it can be hard for him to get in.

Lastly, Wrath beat Ally and forced him to use Cloud at MomoCon in loser's. It's more indicative of the Mario vs. Sonic matchup now than it was last year.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

From what I've heard, played, and experienced, it seems it would be Donkey Kong, Corrin, Marth, and Pit.

I'm actually surprised Mario vs. Sheik is only 50-50, and Mario vs. Diddy is arguably in Mario's advantage.

Also, Cloud if he can maintain neutral and not get gimped. Mario in general does not like disjointed characters. Even against Ike, it can be hard for him to get in.

Lastly, Wrath beat Ally and forced him to use Cloud at MomoCon in loser's. It's more indicative of the Mario vs. Sonic matchup now than it was last year.

So I should use or ? Over ?

 

[Xandercosm]

So I should use or ? Over ?

In a low or mid level setting with Marios that don't know how to space properly, then Marth wins. At a higher level of play, Marth's weaknesses against Mario (combo food, weaker frame data, bad recovery, etc) become MUCH more apparent. Same goes for DK. If we are basing MUs on high level play, neither of them beat Mario.

As for Corrin, he/she doesn't beat Mario at any level of play, in my opinion for the reasons I stated above.

Also, I will add in response to Rango the Mercenary that Pit isn't a losing MU for Mario. The Mario and Pit boards have discussed the MU and came to the conclusion that it is even or around that. The lack of a hitbox on Pit's recovery makes it easy for Mario to exploit it. Mario also beats Pit in neutral from my experience due to having better frame data and approaching with aggressive aerial assaults that Pit just can't rival because of his low air speed. I mean, Pit is pretty much just a weaker Mario.

Nice_FZPSC.42 In response to your question about losing MUs for Mario, some high level Mario's think he has none. However, if I had to name two that are borderline losing, I would say Rosalina and possibly (but not for sure) Mewtwo. Rosalina walls Mario out hard and can edge-guard him very effectively too. Her range is absolutely insane and the fact that Luma can act as a meat shield and ruin combos is just as bad.

As for Mewtwo, sometimes I think it's a losing MU, sometimes I don't. Mewtwo outranges Mario with a lot of his aerials and tilts and he can combo Mario hard. On top of that, he is one of the harder characters for Mario to combo due to his low weight and high jumps. On the flip side, Mario kills Mewtwo early with U-smash and Mewtwo's large hurtbox makes it quite easy to land. My opinion on this one changes a lot but it could be sort of a fringe losing MU for Mario.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

In a low or mid level setting with Marios that don't know how to space properly, then Marth wins. At a higher level of play, Marth's weaknesses against Mario (combo food, weaker frame data, bad recovery, etc) become MUCH more apparent. Same goes for DK. If we are basing MUs on high level play, neither of them beat Mario.

As for Corrin, he/she doesn't beat Mario at any level of play, in my opinion for the reasons I stated above.

Also, I will add in response to Rango the Mercenary that Pit isn't a losing MU for Mario. The Mario and Pit boards have discussed the MU and came to the conclusion that it is even or around that. The lack of a hitbox on Pit's recovery makes it easy for Mario to exploit it. Mario also beats Pit in neutral from my experience due to having better frame data and approaching with aggressive aerial assaults that Pit just can't rival because of his low air speed. I mean, Pit is pretty much just a weaker Mario.

Nice_FZPSC.42 In response to your question about losing MUs for Mario, some high level Mario's think he has none. However, if I had to name two that are borderline losing, I would say Rosalina and possibly (but not for sure) Mewtwo. Rosalina walls Mario out hard and can edge-guard him very effectively too. Her range is absolutely insane and the fact that Luma can act as a meat shield and ruin combos is just as bad.

As for Mewtwo, sometimes I think it's a losing MU, sometimes I don't. Mewtwo outranges Mario with a lot of his aerials and tilts and he can combo Mario hard. On top of that, he is one of the harder characters for Mario to combo due to his low weight and high jumps. On the flip side, Mario kills Mewtwo early with U-smash and Mewtwo's large hurtbox makes it quite easy to land. My opinion on this one changes a lot but it could be sort of a fringe losing MU for Mario.

So I should go ? Or someobe else?

 

[Xandercosm]

So I should go ? Or someobe else?

Mewtwo would be a solid pick. Just space Mario out with F-air and start combos with D-tilt. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[CGod]

I remember a tweet from ally saying a good greninja's spacing properly can give mario trouble. What do you guys have to say about this?

 

[Crystanium]

EDIT: In a nutshell, I feel that the only MUs that Mario really struggles against are. The others are perfectly duable (45-55 at best).

Check this out.

If the link doesn't send you to the time stamp for whatever reason, skip to 3:07.

I'm going to think about the match-up between Mario and Samus.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

How does & do against ? Number wise (50:50, 55:45, etc)

 

[CGod]

How does & do against ? Number wise (50:50, 55:45, etc)

I haven't played the doc match that much but i believe mario should win, he can easily fludd or cape his recovery. As for kirby he's a pain in the ass to play. I reckon its even or in Mario's favor

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I haven't played the doc match that much but i believe mario should win, he can easily fludd or cape his recovery. As for kirby he's a pain in the *** to play. I reckon its even or in Mario's favor

I think I'll go with or for the matchup.

 

[CGod]

I think I'll go with or for the matchup.

I don't think roy is good. You need a character that camps kirby or outranges him. Mewtwo is good

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I don't think roy is good. You need a character that camps kirby or outranges him. Mewtwo is good

I mean against Mario.

 

[CGod]

I mean against Mario.

Oh Mario destroys roy. These are characters that are known to give mario trouble

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Oh Mario destroys roy. These are characters that are known to give mario trouble

Out of who does best?

 

[CGod]

Out of who does best?

Definitely not roy or pikachu. Its 60-40. Id go with sonic.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Definitely not roy or pikachu. Its 60-40. Id go with sonic.

Between who does best?

 

[Combos4Dayz]

Between who does best?

beats by far
is more in 's favor, and I don't think is even remotely a viable MU

 

[Linkip]

In all my days the only characters that i just cannot beat with Mario outside of FG are Corrin and Rosa. Corrin can just keep F-smashing and you cannot get a grab. When fighting Corrin i often fireball trying to knock them out of their smash and then run up and do some damage. Or i just wait patiently for an dragon fang shot, deflect it then get in and do some damage.