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New little AT: Fire Bouncing

Semifer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Germany
Several weeks ago I was messing around on some stages, and I noticed something useful which works on many CP stages, exspecially on one.
You know, if you use UpB in direction to the ground out of the air, you will bounce on the ground, won't be able to move for a short time and you will have much landing lag.
But if the falling animation after you hit the ground with UpB is shortened, there won't be any landing lag and, well, you aren't as long in the air without being able to move, so it's very quick.

And there are 4 different ways to shorten that falling animation:

1. On rises or steps (but not those small steps) - only possible with Wolf:
Steer the UpB diagonally to the Wall of a little rise and bounce onto it (understandable?).

This is possible on following stages:

-Delfino: On the right and the left of the insignia tower (is that the correct name? xD), left part of the stage with that two umbrellas and the on the stage with the small indentation on the left
-Rainbow Cruise: Right part of the ship, and some another places, but I don't know how to explain
-Pictochat
-Luigi's Mansion: The two deep platforms in the middle of the house


2. On skew levels - posslible with Fox, Falco and Wolf:
Steer the UpB horizontally onto a skew level and bounce up to a higher place of the skew level.

This is possible on following stages:

-Distant Planet: On the left
-Yoshi's Island 1: On the left and the right

3. Grounded on raising levels - possible with Fox, Falco and Wolf:
Use UpB horizontally onto a raising level. You have to start on a normal level and when your direction is changed by a skew level you will bounce. It only works if you start about half of the range of Wolf's UpB away from the place where the degree of the level is changed, otherwise Wolf doesn't bounce.

This is possible on following stages:

-Green Hill Zone: In the middle
-Yoshi's Island: On the left and the right
-Corneria: In the middle
- Pokemon Stadium 1: On the right side of the ground stage

4. Distant Planet - possible with Fox, Falco and Wolf:
The grass part on the right of the stage has an interesting ability: It absorbs the shock of UpB, so you won't bounce that high and the lag is cancelled. Btw: It's wayne in which direction you hit the part of the stage.

This is possible on following stages:

-Distant Planet
:chuckle:


I think this technique is most useful with Wolf, because he can perform every kind of Fire Bouncing, and the startup lag of his UpB is much shorter than Fox' and Falco's. But Fox and Falco still have advantages towards Wolf: They don't bounce as high as Wolf, so there fire bouncing is even quicker, but that's why they can't perform the first kind of Fire Bouncing - they don't reach most of the rises/steps. And there is another very interesting thing: Having permormed fire bouncing Fox and Falco glide a bit on the ground.

I use this technique often, and most of the time it works very well. Most of the opponents do not except that exspecially without any landing lag. My favourite follow ups are jab, Dsmash, Fsmash and shine. It's nice to hit with some week hits of the UpB and follow UpB with an attack as well, maybe that's even a true combo?

One stage profits pretty well by this technique, Distant Planet.
You can perform it almost everywhere there, and nowhere else you can use it so adaptably. Wolf can recover very easy, he can stall on the edges, can reflect the flower projectile and has some tricks with SideB there.
Maybe a new very good choice for CPing with Wolf?

What do you think about that little AT? Do you have any questions? Is my description understandable? (I don't think so =S) Do you have some additional information? Is this actually new? Do you think Fire Bouncing is a good name? xD
 

choice_brawler

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
237
Location
Redlands/Berkeley, CA
I understand what you're saying sebastian, though a video would help to completely understand it.

Only the "fire bouncing" on delfino plaza, pokemon stadium 1 and rainbow cruise would be useful though, cuz all those other stages are banned at the tourneys i attend. Unless if you're referring to Yoshi's Island(Brawl).
 

Semifer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Germany
None of the stages I mentioned are banned, they are at least CP.
I think I'll upload a vid after some time^^
 

Semifer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Germany
But Lucario still has long landing lag after doing it, but with Fox, Falco and Wolf it's lagless, so it's much better with them ;D.
 

Semifer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Germany
That's cool, but you don't bounce off the ground, so you can't compare that.

I actually hoped for comments from Gheb, ArcPoint and Ishieymoro^^
 

choice_brawler

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
237
Location
Redlands/Berkeley, CA
all those other stages are banned at the tourneys i attend
It's been a while since i've seen Distant Planet, Green Hill Zone, Corneria, Pictochat, or Luigi's mansion allowed in a tourney. They might be cp for you, but they're banned for me, thats all i was trying to say in that ^.

Yea i've seen similar things with lucario like what kitamerby mentioned. Lucario does bounce off the ground and he does not have any landing lag.
 

Semifer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Germany
OK, in Germany they are CP, but you in America still have Delfino, PS 1 and 2 and YI 1 to use it, well that's not much, but on Delfino there are many places to do it and it can't be bad to know^^.
 

choice_brawler

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
237
Location
Redlands/Berkeley, CA
I finally ran a few tests, looks pretty interesting. Really situational but i guess its one more approach that we could use? I also tried it out on the windmill on ps1, looks like wolf's up b goes through it instead of bouncing =/ It definitely is very similar to the lucario AT.
 

|RK|

Smash Marketer
Moderator
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
4,033
Location
Maryland
Yeah, rather useful when it works I'd assume. Which brings me to the question of whether we can use these stairs and such for our ExtremeAwesome... Quite possibly so... I must show this to the rest of the boards...
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
BRoomer
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
7,292
Location
Land's End (NorCal)
dude they all suck lol.

scrub wolfs that talk too much
Why am I not surprised that you show up to diss the wolf boards instead of actually contributing to the topic -_-
Anyways, for those who don't know, Kailo is in texas, and IIRC from last time, places decently with wolf.

I've never tried this, and first time I saw it the wall of text sorta discouraged me, but it seems interesting. Might as well try to find a use for upB, and this combined with random flash cancels might do a good job of confusing your opponent for a while.

:059:
 

kailo34ce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
1,136
Location
Houston, TX Melee
i take back what i said about ishieymoro...idk much about him...i know gheb sucks hard and arcpoint knows hes a scrub..

also there isnt much to contribute to this topic except its inneficient
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
I'm pretty much with Kailo on this one. The only place I ever see it being useful at all is on Luigi's.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
BRoomer
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May 20, 2008
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7,292
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Land's End (NorCal)
i take back what i said about ishieymoro...idk much about him...i know gheb sucks hard and arcpoint knows hes a scrub..

also there isnt much to contribute to this topic except its inneficient
Lol I never said I wasn't a scrub >_>

Almost all the stages where this comes in handy are banned where I am, or they're my usual bans. It is inefficient, but so is flash cancelling straight into someone. The thing that CAN at times make such things useful is how you can catch someone very offguard. Even if it's a n00b tactic, throwing someone off a little bit is possible and can be capitalized on (...once, max).

:059:
 

Dv8tor

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
226
Apparently it doesn't matter to certain people to help others which is what this board is for. This tech may not be very useful but it's something else that when you master it, it can be used. I think it's kind of fun and can throw someone off, but like you guys stated it is a once use thing.

Now apparently it doesn't matter to a certain person that this board is to help others with Wolf. It does not matter how good you are, if you cannot contribute, then get off. It's more useless than a troll if you just act holier than thou and put others down. Get off your pedestal and try speaking like an intelligent human being, not a know it all child. Obviously I mean you, Kailo34ce.
 

Bakithi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
161
Location
ATL
Apparently it doesn't matter to certain people to help others which is what this board is for. This tech may not be very useful but it's something else that when you master it, it can be used. I think it's kind of fun and can throw someone off, but like you guys stated it is a once use thing.

Now apparently it doesn't matter to a certain person that this board is to help others with Wolf. It does not matter how good you are, if you cannot contribute, then get off. It's more useless than a troll if you just act holier than thou and put others down. Get off your pedestal and try speaking like an intelligent human being, not a know it all child. Obviously I mean you, Kailo34ce.
*clap, clap*

So true, so very true. :')
 
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