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NEW Kirby Guide's Construction Grounds! Currently: Adding Information

A1lion835

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Seriously...? You left out the only useful thing about stone IMO: The infinite stone glitch?

Also 2 (Also harder!), A1, I bet I'll have things to add to that cutter thing when you type it up :p
HolycrapIcan'tbelieveIforgotthatthxbai

You probably will, lol.

Edit: Also, I think that the post should be linked to in the OP, instead of quoted. That way, the OP is less messy and I can make changes to it without having to alert you about them. I linked to the post on the first page already, but for easy access: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9681512#post9681512 (you can quote this post to see the full link).
 

A1lion835

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I have a confession. I had the FC guide done before the stone one, but my computer rebooted and I was almost certain I'd lost the data, and I wasn't too enthusiastic about writing it all up again. However, Autorecover saved it. Microsoft did something good for once!

As you'll see after reading it, I haven't done stage-specific stuff with this because of how long it'd take, but it's also much more informative than the stone one. It's also lacking any images, but I'll add those tomorrow. I'm really proud of this wall of text :D although fromundaman will undoubtedly spot a ridiculous mistake I made.



Hee-Ya-Hey!: An FC Guide




Table of Contents

Basic Data​

Onstage Uses​
Punishing​
Edguarding​
Long-Range Capabilities​

Offstage Uses​
Recovery​
Kuttercide​
FC Spiking​

Stage-Specific Uses​

Conclusion​


Introduction


Many of you reading this guide may not get this title, and that isn’t much of a surprise. This is the phrase (or at least, something like it) that Kirby yells when executing his final cutter (abbreviated as FC), which is a severely unused and underappreciated move. Many Kirby mains avoid it, and with good reason; the startup and ending lag are horrible, the hitbox disappears for a short while at the peak of Kirby’s jump, and missing a ledge is an automatic death. However, FC also has its uses; it is Kirby’s only projectile, largest disjointed hitbox by far and can spike in many situations (more on that later). Final cutter is a unique weapon that I hope you will be able to use to your advantage after reading this guide.

Basic Information

Before we progress much further, you must understand a bit about final cutter. First, let’s examine some frame data and images taken from t1mmy’s Kirby guide:





Start-up: 1-22
Hits: 23, 43-end, 56
Cooldown: 57-91 (35 total)
Hitlag: +7, +3, +0

I’ll describe what this data means now, so skip this bit if you already know.

Start-up: fairly self-explanatory. After the frame you input up+b, Kirby waits 22 frames and then unleashes his FC. See what I mean about that startup? It’s almost half a second!

Hits: These are the frames the attack has a hitbox out (can hit people); 23, 43-on, until he hits the ground, and 56, when the beam projectile comes out.

Cooldown: This is the amount of time after Kirby lands where he is immobile; 35 frames! Optimum time for your opponent to punish you after shielding/avoiding it, which is why many people avoid using this move.

Hitlag: Kirby’s final cutter has 4 parts, 3 with hitboxes: the initial upswing (hee!) with the first hitbox, a moment at the top where his sword disappears, the falling attack (ya!) with the second hitbox, and a blue energy-thing launched out of the sword when Kirby lands (hey!), the final hitbox. This data means that Kirby stalls in the air for 7 frames if he hits someone in the first hitbox, 3 frames for the second, and that the projectile is not slowed down by making contact with someone.

Now a little about the movement capabilities of FC. Standing on the ground, Kirby leaps about the height of falco’s jump into the air (he will land on battlefield’s highest platform if performed directly under it). He can also move back and forth approximately 2 Kirby-widths during the use of final cutter. For whatever reason, both the vertical and horizontal capabilities of the cutter are reduced if it is started in midair.

Next, a brief note about its use in recovery. FC can be ledgecancelled (Kirby can grab onto a ledge if he passes it), but only if he is facing towards the ledge. You also must make sure that you don’t accidentally hold a direction on your control stick as you pass the ledge, as Brawl, for some reason, stops characters from grabbing ledges if this is the case.

Finally, a bit about the power of the hitboxes. The first two hitboxes deal set knockback, with the second being a very powerful meteor smash. The beam projectile at the end deals very low, but not set knockback.

Onstage Uses

Final cutter has a few of uses onstage. Here are some of them.

Punishment

For many attacks (laggy smash attacks, etc.), a final cutter can be used to either outrange them with the blade or hit them from afar with the projectile. In addition, there is a brief moment in the start-up animation where Kirby crouches fairly low, low enough to avoid Ganondorf’s grounded down-b kick (a height slightly taller than his crouch).

Edguarding

The second hitbox, as mentioned in the first section, can be used to spike characters, but is almost always negated by either the opponent hitting the ground or the beam projectile launching them upward. However, if the opponent is over the edge and Kirby can manage to direct himself back onstage while using the cutter, the opponent is meteor smashed and can possibly be gimped.

FC's projectile can also be used to hit recovering characters away from the stage and set up a gimp opportunity (it has the bonus of being pretty flashy as well).

Long-Range Capabilities

It can also be carefully used as a projectile. If you are fighting a matchup against a character without a projectile or characters who can’t deal very well with long-range attacks, you can use it to force an approach. There are always exceptions though; try this tactic on the likes of Marth and DK and you may very well be punished because of their excellent air speed.

The last onstage use is the projectile’s unique movement. If the angle of the ground the beam is on changes, it does one of two things: it may follow the ground or shoot off into the air at the same angle. If Kirby is right up against a wall when he lands (such that the sword sticks fairly deep into it), the beam will go right through the wall and catch enemies off-guard. Try it out on different landscapes for yourself! Stage-specific tactics will be discussed in their own section.

Offstage Uses

Recovery

The first use of FC offstage is obviously for recovery. While it doesn’t improve Kirby’s amazing recovery all that much, it still has recovering uses. If you know that you can latch onto a ledge with little-to-no possibility of being punished, by all means use it. If Kirby has no jumps left, FC can be used together with aerial hammer for an impressive horizontal and reasonable vertical recovery.

Kuttercide

Another use of FC is a suicidal move that his been nicknamed “Kuttercide.” As the name would suggest, it involves using FC offstage to drag an opponent down to the blastline with you, although Kirby may escape alive if he can grab a ledge, while his opponent still falls to their doom. This is useful in a variety of situations; suppose a Meta Knight is edguarding you, and you have little hope of recovery? Go for a Kuttercide, and you might bring him down with you. Or are you a stock ahead but behind in % and want to maintain your advantage? Kuttercide may be the way to go. Note that Kirby usually dies before his opponent (making it a bad idea to end a match with this) and that it is possible for the foe to survive if they have a good enough recovery.

FC Spiking

This is not to be confused with FC’s general ability to spike.

Similar to the Kuttercide, FC spiking is used against an offstage opponent to hopefully score a kill. If Final Cutter is used against an opponent using a recovery attack, Kirby can crash into them with the blade of his attack and meteor smash them, and hopefully be hit up by the hitbox of their attack, saving him from death. For a more concise discussion of the topic, you can visit this thread for more info.


Stage-Specific Uses

In this part of the guide, I’ll cover almost every stage in the game and explain how FC’s potential can be unleashed on each of them.

[stages to be added later; too tired right now]

Conclusion

Thank you for bearing with me through this large wall of text! Hopefully you’ve learned a bit about this move and have some new things to try out against your friends. And you’ve also learned the weaknesses of this move.

Good luck and continue Kirbying! :):):)
 

fromundaman

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Not bad padawan, but I will indeed come in with a few notes of my own:

Punishment

For many attacks (Falco’s lazers, laggy smash attacks, etc.), a final cutter can be used to either outrange them with the blade or hit them from afar with the projectile. In addition, there is a brief moment in the start-up animation where Kirby crouches fairly low, low enough to avoid Ganondorf’s grounded down-b kick (a height slightly taller than his crouch).
I... I'm sorry. Did you just say FC was good for punishing Falco's lasers? I must have misread that... There's no way that can be what you just typed.

Also, Did you check for the crouch thing? To my knowledge, while Kirby's hurtbox shrinks, it's too little to make a real difference, and it seems weird that it would be enough to go under Ganon's DownB, but I could be wrong.




Also, you may want to add something about how ridiculously easy it is to powershield and how easy it is to punish after a PS.

Finally, might want to add how it can be used as a gimp move (Cutter near the edge to hit recovering opponents with the shockwave).




I'll try, at some point, if I have the time and patience, to throw something together about all of Kirby's janky stage tricks.
 

A1lion835

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I... I'm sorry. Did you just say FC was good for punishing Falco's lasers? I must have misread that... There's no way that can be what you just typed.
I'm not even sure what I was trying to communicate with that. Oh my God.

I remember thinking something about punishing Falco's charging their fsmashes when I wrote that, but how lasers got in...I have absolutely no idea.

fromundaman said:
Also, Did you check for the crouch thing? To my knowledge, while Kirby's hurtbox shrinks, it's too little to make a real difference, and it seems weird that it would be enough to go under Ganon's DownB, but I could be wrong.
It happened to me several times in a lolzy friendly I had with a Ganon.

fromundaman said:
Also, you may want to add something about how ridiculously easy it is to powershield and how easy it is to punish after a PS.

Finally, might want to add how it can be used as a gimp move (Cutter near the edge to hit recovering opponents with the shockwave).
Both of these are good.

Edit: I fixed the guide to meet your suggestions. Added pics to it.
 

fromundaman

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That being said though, I also want to point out that even for laggy smash attacks, while it works, there's usually a better option.

Just sayin'
 

A1lion835

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That being said though, I also want to point out that even for laggy smash attacks, while it works, there's usually a better option.

Just sayin'
At a distance, Kirby can either FC punish or attempt to close the gap with an approach. The approach seems a bit riskier, since the opponent may recover quickly enough to stop Kirby or have a large, lingering hitbox in front of them (charging towards Bowser's fsmash=bad idea, as an example). FC is pretty much unpunishable in that position, and Kirby can approach after his opponent is hit into the air.

At close range though, I agree there are usually better things (like charging an fsmash).
 

Triple R

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Isn't there weird stuff that happens when people powershield the FC near the ledge? I'm no expert on it, but some stuff does happen. Does anyone know the specifics of what I'm talking about? I think it would be cool to include some of that so we can make it as complete as possible.
 

fromundaman

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Oh yeah, if you get FC PSed near the ledge, it pushes you away from the ledge and puts you in freefall. I think you can DI towards the ledge to grab it anyway, but not sure, not to mention it happens so fast you might not DI in time.
 

A1lion835

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I've had it happen to me, and I've never had to DI towards the ledge...in fact, the only times I've ever died from it were when I accidentally pressed a direction, causing me not to grab the ledge.

Tater, I still have to do the stage-specific stuff, but other than that I think it's fine.
 

TaterSalad0811

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About the free-fall, in a ladder match vs. Asdioh's Kirby on BF, he landed on a platform with his FC as I was inhaling, and he was slid off during the landing lag, and went into a brief freefall. Similar effects occur with stages with wind and/or treadmills, along with Squirtle/Mario's water.
 

yoichX

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....... I don't know if this is accurate but i feel i approved at playing kirby after reading t!mmy's guide and im looking forward to this :)
 

Kewkky

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Tater, you could take the link in my sig, and add it at the start of the guide as a recommended non-Kirby read. Since our goal is to improve other Kirby mains' performance, sometimes the problem isn't the character, but the player himself... And the link in my sig has some very good info for people who think that THEY are the problem and not their characters (I mean, look at ChuDat and YbM... Obviously it's not the character all of the time, those two guys are consistent in USA at all times!).

It can be applied to any game, any fighting game, and any Brawl character... So, take it! In fact, READ IT YOURSELF! :D


*points to his sig's green text which isn't visible and dislikes that :mad:*
 

yoichX

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Wow so much info my head hurts lol not really!
Nice Thred!!! It taught me some important things didn't get to read the whole thing yet but i will!
 

Triple R

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Yeah, thanks for making that read more available to people Kewkky. I've read other topics covering the same things. It speaks the truth though. Those are many of the things that are the key to success. It's always nice to read stuff like that once in awhile to remind myself of what I'm really doing and to make me think again lol.
 

TaterSalad0811

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Tater, you could take the link in my sig, and add it at the start of the guide as a recommended non-Kirby read. Since our goal is to improve other Kirby mains' performance, sometimes the problem isn't the character, but the player himself... And the link in my sig has some very good info for people who think that THEY are the problem and not their characters (I mean, look at ChuDat and YbM... Obviously it's not the character all of the time, those two guys are consistent in USA at all times!).

It can be applied to any game, any fighting game, and any Brawl character... So, take it! In fact, READ IT YOURSELF! :D


*points to his sig's green text which isn't visible and dislikes that :mad:*
Falcon Namesearch!

*Erupts from pie*



Looks like a good read.

And lol at avi, looks like back when MK was auditioning for the part of Kirby.
 

Kewkky

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And lol at avi, looks like back when MK was auditioning for the part of Kirby.
Well, you know how MK is: he's too embarassed when seen as a HIGH FFS mid tier character, so he wears some extra armor to go straight to S tier.
 

Kewkky

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HIGH FFS means:

High
In
God's
Heaven
Fromundaman
Found
Sanity.

FFS means for ****'s sake, so "HIGH For ****'s Sake", pretty much pointing at how in my heart I'll always know Kirby is high tier.
 

TaterSalad0811

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AH, now it all makes sense.

I approve of your opinion, Kirby should be higher, but as Gimpyfish put it,

"I think we really just need to see a Kirby main take it to the next level because I think we all know he has it in him. Kirby is good, it's pretty obvious that he is, but he still hasn't broken out yet like some others have",

Which brings us to the simple solution of just going to more tournies, placing/winning better/more, and letting the results speak for themselves.
 
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