Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

There seems to be some confusion going around when talking about the Dragon ARM. It can refer to two things:

Min Min's signature ARM that spews lasers, but can be used by anyone when unlocked.
OR
Min Min's unique ability where her left ARM increases in size significantly and stays charged until she is knocked down.

This is what happens when the same word is used to refer to many different things

You've got
ARMS: the tournament
ARMS: the ability (which is why Twintelle is said to fight with ARMS when it is clearly her hair)
ARMS: The ARMaments that they use for boxing gloves
ARMS: The vidja game.

 

[meleebrawler]

This is what happens when the same word is used to refer to many different things

You've got
ARMS: the tournament
ARMS: the ability (which is why Twintelle is said to fight with ARMS when it is clearly her hair)
ARMS: The ARMaments that they use for boxing gloves
ARMS: The vidja game.

- ARMS tournament already has a proper name: the ARMS League.
- Differentiating between talking about the phenomenon and the game itself should be easy with context and proper adjectives.
- Don't know if this is official, but I don't use capitals when talking about the weapons.

 

[fogbadge]

This is what happens when the same word is used to refer to many different things

You've got
ARMS: the tournament
ARMS: the ability (which is why Twintelle is said to fight with ARMS when it is clearly her hair)
ARMS: The ARMaments that they use for boxing gloves
ARMS: The vidja game.

wait til arms 2 and bring in character called arms

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

- ARMS tournament already has a proper name: the ARMS League.
- Differentiating between talking about the phenomenon and the game itself should be easy with context and proper adjectives.
- Don't know if this is official, but I don't use capitals when talking about the weapons.

Everything is in capitals. The mode where you unlock different ARMS even has it fully capitalized.

Okay, I was largely staying out of this debacle being myself someone who isn't super invested in how they end up implementing an ARMS rep into Smash, but I feel I have to interject here: Come on dude, I'll give you the point about Ninjara's teleporting, but I myself mentioned in this thread how ARMS the game itself allows any character to unlock and use any other character's arms, offering more potential moveset ideas to a singular or otherwise ARMS character. If you're really so keen on ARMS being accurate, you should know that. Yes, the dragon ARM is most commonly associated with Min-Min, granted, but nobody has to "grow" a dragon arm, because they can already use that arm in game. Min Min starts with the dragon arm, but Springman can use the dragon arm, Ribbon Girl can use the dragon arm, Twintelle can use the dragon arm, Lola Pop can use the dragon arm, Dr. Coyle can use the dragon arm. Literally every character can have that arm, and with enough playtime, literally every other arm, as an available tool they can use in the game. Equipping ARMS is a core gameplay mechanic, meaning it should be super not crazy to imagine an ARMS character in Smash equipping a different ARM than the ones they start with. The only thing exclusive to Min-Min that other characters aren't allowed to have canonically afaik is her kicks.

I get you're super averse to the idea of a mixed skins character, and as someone with little stake in an ARMS character portrayal, I respect that, I really do. But now you're arguing against your own argument of ARMS purity just to try and gotcha someone.

Someone else already brought it up, but there's some confusion here.

We're talking about Min Min's unique ability to have one of her arms turn into that of a dragon when charging up her arms (or landing a grab). It can work with anything set on the left arm because it's the character's unique ability.

 

[zferolie]

I did move my vote to twintelle as i love her in the game, but i do think the 2 most likely solo characters are Min Min and Ribbon girl. And if that flipnote rumor is true, i think Ribbon girl may be the choice.

Ribbon girl is the other face of the franchise, and who knows, maybe ARMS 2, if thats a thing, has her be the lead over spring man. Also her multiple jumps could give her a decent recovery over other ARMS character. We dont have too many multiple jump characters, so adding another could be a decent option. Also a fast fall option would be new to the game(or maybe faster then other dast fallers) and actually really good for a character.

Otherwise, anything honestly could happen. Its gonna be a crazy 3 months haha.

As for the rest of the pass, its hard to say. I think geno and rex are locks, and my bias says Shantae is a lock as well. I dont know if those rumored bonus characters are true but i would like to think so, especially an iwata tribute. I know i said other places i though waluigi could be a bonus, but honestly... i dont know. If they are going to update AT then yes his chances go up, and he could fit as a bonus coming out on September 13th for Marios anniversary. But it could be others, or maybe its only 1 unique bonus and the rest are echos.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As far as Mario characters besides Geno go, I see King Boo as likelier than Waluigi if that rumor of an Odyssey/Luigi's Mansion crossover pans out. Besides, Mario devs are still reluctant to include Waluigi in any major Mario games, let alone mobile platformers like Super Mario Run.

Until further notice though, I'll assume that we may just get one bonus, that being the Iwata tribute.

 

[Trevenant]

I did move my vote to twintelle as i love her in the game, but i do think the 2 most likely solo characters are Min Min and Ribbon girl. And if that flipnote rumor is true, i think Ribbon girl may be the choice.

Ribbon girl is the other face of the franchise, and who knows, maybe ARMS 2, if thats a thing, has her be the lead over spring man. Also her multiple jumps could give her a decent recovery over other ARMS character. We dont have too many multiple jump characters, so adding another could be a decent option. Also a fast fall option would be new to the game(or maybe faster then other dast fallers) and actually really good for a character.

Otherwise, anything honestly could happen. Its gonna be a crazy 3 months haha.

As for the rest of the pass, its hard to say. I think geno and rex are locks, and my bias says Shantae is a lock as well. I dont know if those rumored bonus characters are true but i would like to think so, especially an iwata tribute. I know i said other places i though waluigi could be a bonus, but honestly... i dont know. If they are going to update AT then yes his chances go up, and he could fit as a bonus coming out on September 13th for Marios anniversary. But it could be others, or maybe its only 1 unique bonus and the rest are echos.

I really do think the arms character at least includes Springman. The theme for new franchises getting in is it’s always the protagonist or the mascot. That’s how even Pikachu fits in and it isn’t even a shoehorning argument as it’s been the case with every new franchise that has joined since the start. Ribbon Girl could definitely fit that bill but Springman is definitely pushed slightly more than her for mascot which makes him the more likely pick imo.

I think it would be a stretch to call any indie a lock considering the extent of the representation they have. It seems they are intentionally avoiding them to not have them playable as most are just assists, spirits or mii outfits.

And yeah the Iwata tribute character started with Fatman iirc and he said it would happen before Sakurai came out and said this would be the last dlc for ultimate essentially invalidating anything he heard unless we wanna go into ‘Sakurai is lying’ territory which long story short he definitely isn’t. An Iwata tribute completely lives or dies by Sakurai deciding it after that famitsu column which is a long shot considering it’s DLC and it’s kind of an obscure pick and it can’t really be sold as a bonus like the way piranha plant was. Any retro characters ship most likely sailed when they weren’t announced in the base game. I’m not opposed to one but it really is unlikely. I’d welcome it in fact as iwata really does deserve it. But at this point we aren’t getting any bonuses and it’s just the current 6.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Until further notice though, I'll assume that we may just get one bonus, that being the Iwata tribute.

Isn't the game itself a tribute to Iwata though?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Isn't the game itself a tribute to Iwata though?

Technically yes, but aside from the Kirby stuff there is absolutely nothing else from HAL Labs' past aside from Qbby. It is more of Iwata's final assignment than anything, with Sakurai explicitly mentioning that the DLC already falls outside of that said assignment.

The most appropriate way to cap off the game's DLC would be with a character from a series that Iwata had more personal involvement with.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Technically yes, but aside from the Kirby stuff there is absolutely nothing else from HAL Labs' past aside from Qbby. It is more of Iwata's final assignment than anything, with Sakurai explicitly mentioning that the DLC already falls outside of that said assignment.

The most appropriate way to cap off the game's DLC would be with a character from a series that Iwata had more personal involvement with.

Pokemon Gold and Silver? I'd love Scizor!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Pokemon Gold and Silver? I'd love Scizor!

Nah man, that's entirely on The Pokémon Company's ballpark nowadays.

I'm talking about HAL's really early games. A game from that period that is implicitly referenced in one of the past stages.

Spoiler: Read this if you haven't figured out what I'm referring to

The Adventures of Lolo.

 

[Sigran101]

I agree, however that's not nearly as true for the four I've been discussing.

• In terms of Statistics, Spring Man and Min-Min are equal in everything apart from max charge time, and Ribbon Girl is nearly exactly the same in this regard to Min-Min, albeit with slightly lower dash distance. Ninjara is really the only one of these four whose Statistics are significantly different compared to the other three fighters, but even then he's only ahead by ~20% in each stat.
• In terms of Official Stats we see a bit more variance; The women are one unit shorter than the men, which is consistent with typical human dimorphism, though I'd imagine it wouldn't matter all too much in-game. Arm Girth is even amongst the men, with the women being below average, save for Min-Min's left arm when it's fully charged. Speed is consistent between three of these four fighters, with the obvious exception being Ninjara who is... well, a ninja, and is naturally faster. Jumping is relatively balanced between the four of them, with Ribbon Girl and Ninjara beating the other two out by a single point. The last two stats are clearly joke stats which have no effect in-game.

While there are noticeable stat differences between this quartet here and there, none of their stats are all too different that they can't be evened out should these characters get merged together for Smash. The only one of these you could make a decent argument for would be Ninjara thanks to his generally speedier gameplay, but due to Smash Ultimate already being as fast paced as it is, such speed differences compared to his home game would be negligable in the grand scheme of things.


While that may be true in some instances, such as their idle and victory animations, their basic movements and attacks aren't all that different. If these four were included as one general ARMS fighter, the idle, taunts, and victory animations are all that would need to be changed in terms of animation. Their punches would differ little, their jumps would differ little, their grabs would differ little, their aerials would differ little, even their Final Smash would differ little as they are all capable of using the same rapid-fire fisticuffs move when their special meter is full.


Well for one, we're most likely not getting any DLC Echo Fighters at all. Given that Sakurai has gone on record stating that they don't have any plans for DLC after Vol.2, as well as each Challenger Pack specifying only one fighter, I'd take that as a pretty clear joss against DLC Echoes. But even if they did decide to add Echoes to a Challenger Pack, it would be pretty unfair to the other DLC fighters. "Oh okay, my character comes alone, but they come with another character?! Talk about Sakurai Bias!"

Also, I really don't think you paid any attention to what I was saying regarding the differences between Ryu and Ken. The reason these two are Echoes of eachother rather than being alt costumes is because they have very significant differences that make such homogenization unfeasable. A few of these unassailable differences are as follows:

• Quite a few of their standard attacking moves have different properties, with some of them being completely different in both animation and function.
• While Ryu and Ken share most of their imput commands, they each have one or two that are unique compared to eachother; Ryu has the Shankunetsu Hadourken and Ken has both the Oosoto Mawashi Geri and the Nata Otoshi Geri.
• Ryu can't do the Shippu Jinraikyaku or the Shinryuken, and Ken can't do the Shin Shoryuken or the Shinku Hadouken.

The same could apply to Dark Pit. Depite being almost identical to Pit in most ways, one way that the two differ that would prevent them from being part of the same fighter are their Final Smashes. It would make no sense for Dark Pit to use the Three Sacred Treasures (Smash 4) or the Lightning Chariot (Ultimate), as he never finds himself in posession of the former, and the latter is in Pit's custody by the time Ultimate rolls around (Super Smash Bros. is part of the Kid Icarus canon.), plus it doesn't really fit his style. As such, his Final Smash is his signature Dark Pit Staff.


From what I can tell, Echo Fighters are designated the way that they are based on how much development time is requires to make them, rather than how much of them is wholly different from their base fighter. From a designer's perspective, it takes much less time to make someone like Daisy or Chrom since all they'd have to do is reuse most of their base fighter's animations, attacks, grabs, even their Final Smashes in some cases, and their moveset is balanced compared to their base fighter rather than the rest of the cast, which takes even less time. It would explain why Dr. Mario isn't considered an Echo of Mario but Dark Samus is considered one for Samus, despite the former duo being superficially similar.

Also, I think you're seriously overemphasizing the importance of character animations when it comes to whether a fighter is worthy of being considered an Echo or not. I mean, the male and female Pokemon Trainer have different animations between eachother, but neither of them are considered Echoes of the other. Same with Inkling and Byleth, who have different animations in some cases between genders.



Also, I'm pretty sure one of them uses staves to attack and the other one is a manlet angel, which is pretty wildly different as far as protagonists go.


Wario is literally twice as wide as both Mario and Luigi combined. They are not at all comparable to the four ARMS characters I'm talking about. Take a look at this:
View attachment 267765
(Note: There was no image of Min-Min's model to compare with.)
Their body types are nearly identical to eachother. Are you honestly trying to tell me that these characters couldn't be slightly modified in height to fit on the same rig? Especially since Smash tends to care very little when it comes to canon character sizes?


Different idle animations.

He wouldn't, those would be animations exclusive to those characters: Ninjara's dodges would have him warp as he usually does despite it functioning the exact same as everyone else's dodge, and Min-Min's left arm gimmick would be relegated to her Final Smash animation.

"Dark Pit using the lightning Chariot would be ridiculous, but Springman teleporting, hopping off of music notes, and turning his arm into a dragon is completely reasonable."

Translation

"I'm not a fan of ARMS so I don't care as much about proper representation as I do for these other series."

 

[ivanlerma]

I really do think the arms character at least includes Springman. The theme for new franchises getting in is it’s always the protagonist or the mascot. That’s how even Pikachu fits in and it isn’t even a shoehorning argument as it’s been the case with every new franchise that has joined since the start. Ribbon Girl could definitely fit that bill but Springman is definitely pushed slightly more than her for mascot which makes him the more likely pick imo.

I think it would be a stretch to call any indie a lock considering the extent of the representation they have. It seems they are intentionally avoiding them to not have them playable as most are just assists, spirits or mii outfits.

And yeah the Iwata tribute character started with Fatman iirc and he said it would happen before Sakurai came out and said this would be the last dlc for ultimate essentially invalidating anything he heard unless we wanna go into ‘Sakurai is lying’ territory which long story short he definitely isn’t. An Iwata tribute completely lives or dies by Sakurai deciding it after that famitsu column which is a long shot considering it’s DLC and it’s kind of an obscure pick and it can’t really be sold as a bonus like the way piranha plant was. Any retro characters ship most likely sailed when they weren’t announced in the base game. I’m not opposed to one but it really is unlikely. I’d welcome it in fact as iwata really does deserve it. But at this point we aren’t getting any bonuses and it’s just the current 6.

i have to wonder which character represents a tribute to iwata, what does iwata like?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

"Dark Pit using the lightning Chariot would be ridiculous, but Springman teleporting, hopping off of music notes, and turning his arm into a dragon is totally within character."

Translation

"I'm not a fan of ARMS so I don't care as much about proper representation as I do for these other series."

It's funny because he even talked about the Shotoclones and why them being in the same character slot would be ridiculous.

But Spring Man and Min Min being alts? Sure. why not?

 

[zferolie]

As far as Mario characters besides Geno go, I see King Boo as likelier than Waluigi if that rumor of an Odyssey/Luigi's Mansion crossover pans out. Besides, Mario devs are still reluctant to include Waluigi in any major Mario games, let alone mobile platformers like Super Mario Run.

Until further notice though, I'll assume that we may just get one bonus, that being the Iwata tribute.

Oh i would love King Boo more then Waluigi. Would be super unique in both design of moveset and character look. I wonder if his floating could make super low attacks miss, or would that be too op.

The iwata tribute seems the most likely and anything else may be a pipe dream.

I really do think the arms character at least includes Springman. The theme for new franchises getting in is it’s always the protagonist or the mascot. That’s how even Pikachu fits in and it isn’t even a shoehorning argument as it’s been the case with every new franchise that has joined since the start. Ribbon Girl could definitely fit that bill but Springman is definitely pushed slightly more than her for mascot which makes him the more likely pick imo.

I think it would be a stretch to call any indie a lock considering the extent of the representation they have. It seems they are intentionally avoiding them to not have them playable as most are just assists, spirits or mii outfits.

And yeah the Iwata tribute character started with Fatman iirc and he said it would happen before Sakurai came out and said this would be the last dlc for ultimate essentially invalidating anything he heard unless we wanna go into ‘Sakurai is lying’ territory which long story short he definitely isn’t. An Iwata tribute completely lives or dies by Sakurai deciding it after that famitsu column which is a long shot considering it’s DLC and it’s kind of an obscure pick and it can’t really be sold as a bonus like the way piranha plant was. Any retro characters ship most likely sailed when they weren’t announced in the base game. I’m not opposed to one but it really is unlikely. I’d welcome it in fact as iwata really does deserve it. But at this point we aren’t getting any bonuses and it’s just the current 6.

I say yes, normally sprimg man would be the shoe in, but that AT part just bugs me. I could see him being an alt to Ribbon girl honestly, but the main would be Ribbon Girl. Or Min min if that Party crash and the developers love for Min Min has any weight to Sakurai.

Oh i freely admit i have a high Bias for shantae and any indie rep. I just feel these mii costumes are leading to an indie fighter.

Well he said this is the last planned fighter pass. He technically never said anything about any bonus or something. Again, fatmans stuff has been pretty spot on so far, despite him claiming not to be a leaker, just hearimg things.

Nah man, that's entirely on The Pokémon Company's ballpark nowadays.

I'm talking about HAL's really early games. A game from that period that is implicitly referenced in one of the past stages.

Spoiler: Read this if you haven't figured out what I'm referring to

The Adventures of Lolo.

A new Duo pair since Ice Climbers with Lolo and lala I would be down for. That or balloon foghter as i think that was one of his first games by Nintendo unless i am mistaken

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

All jokes aside, first-party characters don't exactly have the best track record for source material accuracy, the most one can expect with them is "close enough".

Even Ryu had to use at least one signature move from a SF game that's not II, so it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to assume that at least one concession has to be made.

Consider, for example: if Dr. Coyle was chosen and you couldn't jump in the slightest, would that remotely work in the context of Smash?

i have to wonder which character represents a tribute to iwata, what does iwata like?

It's not so much about what he likes personally, but more about "what character encapsulates what he's been associated with in his past as a HAL Labs/Nintendo employee?".

 

[ivanlerma]

All jokes aside, first-party characters don't exactly have the best track record for source material accuracy, the most one can expect with them is "close enough".

Even Ryu had to use at least one signature move from a SF game that's not II, so it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to assume that at least one concession has to be made.

Consider, for example: if Dr. Coyle was chosen and you couldn't jump in the slightest, would that remotely work in the context of Smash?



It's not so much about what he likes personally, but more about "what character encapsulates what he's been associated with in his past as a HAL Labs/Nintendo employee?".

Ya, That's what i mean, is there any games iwata likes that would potentially be the last fighter?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Ya, That's what i mean, is there any games iwata likes that would potentially be the last fighter?

I don't know, although for a time the Switch hid a copy of Golf on NES, another game he's had a hand on.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

All jokes aside, first-party characters don't exactly have the best track record for source material accuracy, the most one can expect with them is "close enough".

Even Ryu had to use at least one signature move from a SF game that's not II, so it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to assume that at least one concession has to be made.

Consider, for example: if Dr. Coyle was chosen and you couldn't jump in the slightest, would that remotely work in the context of Smash?

I thought first-parties were handled nicely in the last few years and that the stuff that makes them feel "close enough" is simply creative liberties since Nintendo games tend to be so simplistic in nature that Smash is essentially where they have their biggest moveset.

And when it feels off for a character, it instead is a reference to a mechanic.

For example, I'm not too fond of how Byleth's moveset is because carrying the house leaders' weapons is weird... but it still means she's using the entire weapon triangle or sword, lance and axe, which is a staple in Fire Emblem. Or how Robin has durability in his weapons.

Or for a non-FE example, Inkling. Sure, you can't ink the stage like in Splatoon, but Inkling is still very good at controlling the stage, and what are Turf Wars all about? Controlling turf.

Incineroar is also really well done from a design perspective. He looks like a wrestler and plays like a wrestler, even taunting when landing moves.

It's all creative liberties to make up for how simplistic the games are.

The only character I can agree is really off even if you look at it with creative liberties in mind is Isabelle. This is a character that, in my opinion, was only shoved in the playable cast because of popularity because, hot take, her being an Assist in 4 was literally the most perfect role for her.

As for Ryu, I imagine SF2 just didn't have a big enough amount of moves, so he had to borrow from SF3 and 4 for his fsmash and down b respectively.

It's not so much about what he likes personally, but more about "what character encapsulates what he's been associated with in his past as a HAL Labs/Nintendo employee?".

Challenger Pack 12 - Satoru Iwata himself

 

[Guynamednelson]

shoved in the playable cast because of popularity

Well yeah. A game originally based on Nintendo all-stars is gonna have the new Nintendo all-star.

 

[fogbadge]

Well yeah. A game originally based on Nintendo all-stars is gonna have the new Nintendo all-star.

too bad some of the older nintendo all stars is missing

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well yeah. A game originally based on Nintendo all-stars is gonna have the new Nintendo all-star.

But when it feels off, highly out-of-character and isn't even that unique aside from like one move, it definitely feels more like a shill pick than someone who earned the spot, even though I do agree Isabelle deserved her place on the roster.

I guess I just wanted her to have more stuff from New Leaf instead of being 90% Villager, so it's more of an execution nitpick rather than the character itself.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

too bad some of the older nintendo all stars is missing

Well, All-Star does mean that all the characters are the star of another work.
So by technicality, I'd say the only missing All-Star is Dixie Kong, star of DKC3.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

too bad some of the older nintendo all stars is missing

True, but at least ARMS got saved from the recruitment waiting line.

But when it feels off, highly out-of-character and isn't even that unique aside from like one move, it definitely feels more like a shill pick than someone who earned the spot, even though I do agree Isabelle deserved her place on the roster.

I guess I just wanted her to have more stuff from New Leaf instead of being 90% Villager, so it's more of an execution nitpick rather than the character itself.

In fairness, they were still more favorably expected than "contractually-obligated FE character".

In regards to roster balance, reaching the fine line between past and present is not an easy one, especially if you have a relatively short deadline.

Well, All-Star does mean that all the characters are the star of another work.
So by technicality, I'd say the only missing All-Star is Dixie Kong, star of DKC3.

And we do get a Mii hat reference for her this time, so things may look up for us in that regard next time.

 

[Trevenant]

i have to wonder which character represents a tribute to iwata, what does iwata like?

I always assumed balloon fighter or maybe Ninten. I dunno really

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I always assumed balloon fighter or maybe Ninten. I dunno really

The golfer from Golf?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Well, All-Star does mean that all the characters are the star of another work.
So by technicality, I'd say the only missing All-Star is Dixie Kong, star of DKC3.

I guess that's one way to put it, but I personally believe the idea that Dixie is "the last Nintendo all-star" is pretty much ignoring every series that has more than 4 reps and most of Nintendo after 1997.

 

[Garo]

Just for fun I thought of ways how the character gimmicks could work in Smash. Some just feel like they wouldn't, but I tried to think of something even for the harder ones.

Spring Man
Perma-charge: Pretty simple, just happens at a fixed percentage like Terry's GO! Meter and resets on death / when healed enough.
Parry wave: This could go many ways. It'll probably act as some kind of counter/reflector or both. Maybe a "clanker" that'll nullify any active hitboxes it touches? That might be too complicated.

Ribbon Girl
4 air jumps: Self-explanatory.
Double air dash: Not implemented (except for the animation itself in air dodges) or a side special working as a movement option.
Fast fall: She could have the fastest fast fall speed in the game.

Ninjara
Warp block: Referred to in his roll and spot dodge animations.
Teleport air dash: Referred to in his air dodge animations. Could also be his up special.

Master Mummy
Healing shield: Implemented as is. Automatically balanced in Smash by the fact that he'll break his own shield if he uses it too much.
Super armor/Damage reduction: Universal armor like Tough Guy. Will probably also have typical super armor on some attacks.

Min Min
Parry kicks: Reworked as attacks like certain tilts and aerials.
Dragon arm: Charged with down or side special. Throws may or may not activate it as well. Increases damage, knockback and size of (left-handed) punches for it's duration. Lost when sent into tumble or taking enough damage.

Mechanica
Super armor: Same as Master Mummy.
Hovering: Could be an ability like float or be reworked as an up special. Maybe both?
Extended dash: Reflected by giving her long roll and air dodge distance.

Twintelle
Slowing down incoming punches: Side special that dashes forwards or backwards and slows down anyone that tries to hit her during the activation window and gives her a few different options out of it, kinda like Dragon Lunge mixed with Witch Time. Also charges her ARMS.

Byte & Barq
Barq: Follows Byte in the background. Down special summons him in front of Byte and makes him throw out a punch towards the closest opponent. He also protects you during this like Wild Gunman, but if he's knocked out you can't use him for a few seconds. Acts as a springboard in their up special which also activates a parry wave that grants invincibility and deals weak knockback.

I'll try to come up with the rest another time.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Just for fun I thought of ways how the character gimmicks could work in Smash. Some just feel like they wouldn't, but I tried to think of something even for the harder ones.

Spring Man
Perma-charge: Pretty simple, just happens at a fixed percentage like Terry's GO! Meter and resets on death / when healed enough.
Parry wave: This could go many ways. It'll probably act as some kind of counter/reflector or both. Maybe a "clanker" that'll nullify any active hitboxes it touches? That might be too complicated.

Ribbon Girl
4 air jumps: Self-explanatory.
Double air dash: Not implemented (except for the animation itself in air dodges) or a side special working as a movement option.
Fast fall: She could have the fastest fast fall speed in the game.

Ninjara
Warp block: Referred to in his roll and spot dodge animations.
Teleport air dash: Referred to in his air dodge animations. Could also be his up special.

Master Mummy
Healing shield: Implemented as is. Automatically balanced in Smash by the fact that he'll break his own shield if he uses it too much.
Super armor/Damage reduction: Universal armor like Tough Guy. Will probably also have typical super armor on some attacks.

Min Min
Parry kicks: Reworked as attacks like certain tilts and aerials.
Dragon arm: Charged with down or side special. Throws may or may not activate it as well. Increases damage, knockback and size of (left-handed) punches for it's duration. Lost when sent into tumble or taking enough damage.

Mechanica
Super armor: Same as Master Mummy.
Hovering: Could be an ability like float or be reworked as an up special. Maybe both?
Extended dash: Reflected by giving her long roll and air dodge distance.

Twintelle
Slowing down incoming punches: Side special that dashes forwards or backwards and slows down anyone that tries to hit her during the activation window and gives her a few different options out of it, kinda like Dragon Lunge mixed with Witch Time. Also charges her ARMS.

Byte & Barq
Barq: Follows Byte in the background. Down special summons him in front of Byte and makes him throw out a punch towards the closest opponent. He also protects you during this like Wild Gunman, but if he's knocked out you can't use him for a few seconds. Acts as a springboard in their up special which also activates a parry wave that grants invincibility and deals weak knockback.

I'll try to come up with the rest another time.

I'd say for Ribbon girl she'd had a floaty normal fall speed but a really fast fast-fall so she can switch (*click*) it up on cue.
What's the biggest difference in normal and fast fall speeds in the game currently?

 

[SmashKeks]

Everything is in capitals. The mode where you unlock different ARMS even has it fully capitalized.


Someone else already brought it up, but there's some confusion here.

We're talking about Min Min's unique ability to have one of her arms turn into that of a dragon when charging up her arms (or landing a grab). It can work with anything set on the left arm because it's the character's unique ability.

Thank you for actually clarifying that, as I was asking that other user to do if I didn't entirely understand the situation. I thought he jut meant her equippable lazer dragon arm. Thanks for clearing that up.

EDIT: And thanks to Garo for bringing this up first in the thread. Credit where credit is due and all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I guess that's one way to put it, but I personally believe the idea that Dixie is "the last Nintendo all-star" is pretty much ignoring every series that has more than 4 reps and most of Nintendo after 1997.

Does the idea of "All-Stars" even matter anymore with the way Smash steadily loosens its inclusion standards? The time Smash 6 actually starts, most of the newcomers for returning series will end up being C-listers (if not B), even if just for Mario alone.

If anything, Dixie's inclusion would matter mainly to round out the protagonists of the SNES DKC trilogy. Even then you'd still need Cranky and Funky if you wanted all of Tropical Freeze's stars.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Does the idea of "All-Stars" even matter anymore with the way Smash steadily loosens its inclusion standards? The time Smash 6 actually starts, most of the newcomers for returning series will end up being C-listers (if not B), even if just for Mario alone.

If anything, Dixie's inclusion would matter mainly to round out the protagonists of the SNES DKC trilogy. Even then you'd still need Cranky and Funky if you wanted all of Tropical Freeze's stars.

Well one thing you can say for PSASBR, until the final DLC pack added Zeus, they were all stars.

And even he counts if you consider him to rep Greek Mythology.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well one thing you can say for PSASBR, until the final DLC pack added Zeus, they were all stars.

And even he counts if you consider him to rep Greek Mythology.

Yeah. Shame Sony treated most of them like they were D-listers after that.

 

[zferolie]

Well one thing you can say for PSASBR, until the final DLC pack added Zeus, they were all stars.

And even he counts if you consider him to rep Greek Mythology.

Ehh that game had 2 coles, big daddy, Donte, and no crash or spyro. I really enjoyed the game but so many of theor choices were very.... odd.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yeah. Shame Sony treated most of them like they were D-listers after that.

Yeah, of all the Sony characters only really Kratos and Nathan Drake lived past the PS3 era. Well, Sir Daniel got a full remake that was pretty good so he's got that going for him at least.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, of all the Sony characters only really Kratos and Nathan Drake lived past the PS3 era. Well, Sir Daniel got a full remake that was pretty good so he's got that going for him at least.

Meanwhile, Ape Escape fans have to settle with a Twitter account for their 20th anniversary, and absolutely nothing else being done with the franchise. Which is still more than what the rest got.

So really, we're lucky that Smash even gives some characters the time of day when there are no obstacles or issues in the way.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, All-Star does mean that all the characters are the star of another work.
So by technicality, I'd say the only missing All-Star is Dixie Kong, star of DKC3.

toad's stared in two games

 

[ivanlerma]

Ehh that game had 2 coles, big daddy, Donte, and no crash or spyro. I really enjoyed the game but so many of theor choices were very.... odd.

i'm fine with the latter two either way, though it is rather a little odd to have 2 coles and i haven't even played evil cole(probably never)to see if he has anything different from real cole.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ehh that game had 2 coles, big daddy, Donte, and no crash or spyro. I really enjoyed the game but so many of theor choices were very.... odd.

He said they were all stars. Not that they were all shining brightly

 

[MisterMike]

I'm not responding to every single paragraph you write because all you're doing is glossing over key character difference because you think they dont matter which is utterly absurd.

How does Ribbon Girl and Min-Min being a couple of inches shorter than Spring Man and Ninjara matter? How does a character's arms being slightly thinner matter? How does each character's idle animations being ever so slightly different matter? You haven't explained how any of this precludes them from fitting as one fighter.

Also, if you really don't want to read or respond to all or even half of my counterpoints, why are you still trying to refute what I'm saying? I thought because you replied to my initial comment that you wanted to convince me otherwise, but you don't seem to really want to give enough of a **** to properly understand my arguments and counter them. So why keep trying to convince me I'm wrong?

Do I need to remind you that Sakurai put a symbol inside of a characters eyeball despite it being impossible to ever see in normal play? The man is obsessed with faithfulness and details to an insane degree. I'm utterly flabbergasted that you think sacrificing character-defining mechanics is something Sakurai would ever consider doing.

• Characters like Kirby and Olimar are larger in Smash than they are in their home series.
• Ness and Lucas don't use PK Fire, PK Freeze, PK Thunder or PK Starstorm in their home games.
• Fox, Falco, Wolf and Captain Falcon are seldom shown to leave their vehicles in order to fight, and in the rare instances in which they do they almost never use any of the moves they use in Smash.
• Zelda is capable of using Din's Fire, Nayru's Love, and Farore's Wind despite never using them in the games, and all three of them differ in how they operate from the games.
• Shiek's entire moveset was made up wholesale for Smash, and it wasn't until Ultimate where she actually started using something to attack from her home series. That being her knife seen in promotional art for Ocarina of Time.
• Marth and Roy's movesets, and by extension Lucina and Chrom's, were almost entirely made up for Smash.
• Pit's side-special from Brawl was completely made up as well.
• As was most of Meta Knight's moveset.
• Zero Suit Samus doesn't have a laser whip in the games, and sure as hell doen't have jet heels.
• Diddy Kong can spontaniously create banana peels whenever he feels like it.
• Villager and Isabelle don't fire Gyroids like rockets, among other things.
• Mega Man can use more than one robot master weapon at a time and doesn't change color when doing so like he does in his games.
• The Koopalings in Smash aren't anywhere near as small as Bowser Jr. is their home series, most notably Ludwig, Iggy and Roy.
• The Duck Hunt Dog doesn't have any form of attack in his home series and doesn't team up with a duck whatsoever.
• Dark Samus doesn't use any of her Phazon abilities as a fighter in Smash like she does in the Prime games.
• Incineroar's Alolan Whip isn't an actual move in the Pokemon games.
• Joker can't use Arsene's wings to fly in Persona 5, and only does so in the overly stylized intro.
• Banjo & Kazooie don't use Drill Bill in the games like they do in Smash.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Sakurai and company may be very detailed-oriented when it comes to characters, but they are more than willing to expand upon characters, or just outright make **** up, in order to make them work in Smash. Compared to all of these characters I've listed, Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min-Min all sharing the same amalgamated and slightly abridged moveset in Smash would actually be an example of characters being very faithful to their home series.

I dont care if the inkling alt costumes have one or two small keyframe differences. It has been flat out stated that simply animating too differently can justify separating costumes into their own characters.

Keyword: "CAN", not "MUST". Alph was originally going to be made into a clone during Smash 4's development, using Rock Pikmin rather than Purple Pikmin, but they decided against it.

That is the single reason why Daisy exists on her own.

Or, y'know, maybe they had already finished up on Peach and decided to pad out the roster with another fighter. Or maybe they just really wanted to satisfy fan demand. Perhaps they just wanted to avoid having to cut the number of alt colors she has in half. There are plenty of other reasons aside from her having different animations.

And you think something as HUGE as a completely different dodge animation could fit into an alt? A dodge that would require possible hitbox changes which immediately disqualifies any kind of costume.

Not at all. All you'd have to do is make Ninjara disappear in a puff of smoke during his dodge's invincibility frames, then have him reappear in another puff of smoke when his invincibility frames end. You wouldn't have to change the hitboxes at all, just the visuals.

The characters stances, sizes, postures, and abilities make them too diverse and thus makes it impossible for them to share a skeleton and hitboxes. Ken and Ryu prove this plain and simple.

Ken wasn't made an Echo Fighter because he has one or two different animations compared to Ryu, he was made an Echo Fighter because he plays so fundamentally differently compared to Ryu, most notably with his very different Final Smash, that having him be alts for Ryu wouldn't work. The gimmicks these four ARMS fighters have are not so wildly different that they can't be boiled down to their base essences and turned into a single, unifying moveset for all four of them to share.

"Dark Pit using the lightning Chariot would be ridiculous, but Springman teleporting, hopping off of music notes, and turning his arm into a dragon is completely reasonable."

Translation

"I'm not a fan of ARMS so I don't care as much about proper representation as I do for these other series."

>Implying I ever said that
When I'm referring to this hypothetical ARMS fighter being an amalgamation of these four characters, I'm obviously talking more in terms of gameplay mechanics rather than visuals.

• Spring Man's gimmick of permanent change when at low health could easily be translated into a general power boost when at >100% damage. His shockwave gimmick would have to be cut, however, as it wouldn't be all too useful in a battle like Smash where you're much more mobile.
• Ribbon Girl's gimmick of having up to three mid-air jumps could easily be translated into a blanket 2 extra mid-air jumps instead. Her other two gimmicks, those being air dodges and fast falls, are already things that every Smash character can do at base, so they wouldn't really count.
• Ninjara's gimmick of being able to dodge like a ninja is a bit tricker to impliment because every character in Smash can dodge, so it would have to be relegated to a visual difference exclusive to Ninjara where his body disappears in a puff of smoke and reappears after the dodge invincibility ends. The dodge would be identical for every character, but Ninjara's dodge alone would have that visual difference.
• Min-Min's gimmick of her left arm keeping it's charge indefinitely until she takes damage would be pretty difficult to impliment into Smash, since it's a game where you're bound to take even minor damage eventually, which means it wouldn't be too useful. As a result, this too would have to be relegated to a visual difference wherein her left arm gets charged during specific moments, such as being >100% damage or during their Final Smash, which would be the same for all four of them. Her aerial kicks would be incorporated into the fighter's up-air, because it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for characters with legs to do kicks.

Admittedly, I should've clarified all this from the outset, but I kind of thought it would be common sense. Obviously if these four were included as one character, Spring Man wouldn't be disappearing like a ninja, nor would Ribbon Girl be growing a dragon on her left arm. Like, come the hell on, man.