New gimp set up?

[Vienna]

I've been trying this new combo out to gimp fastfallers at low percents near the ledge: grab > uthrow > sh disable. Disable has a nice knockback in the air, so at low percentages you can land some pretty nice bair gimps if you catch them with a grab.

I don't know if this has been discovered probably, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it like this; maybe it's just more practical to combo them up?

Thoughts?

 

[The Prophet_]

I've been trying this new combo out to gimp fastfallers at low percents near the ledge: grab > uthrow > sh disable. Disable has a nice knockback in the air, so at low percentages you can land some pretty nice bair gimps if you catch them with a grab.

I don't know if this has been discovered probably, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it like this; maybe it's just more practical to combo them up?

Thoughts?

You have a nice idea.

My thoughts...

1. Bthrow would make more sense to use instead of Uthrow,for the attempt of gimping fast fallers at low %. heres why:
-They can DI back to the stage much easier than from a bthrow since Uthrow has vertical knockback. A Bthrow makes it harder for them to travel back to the stage since they can't DI as far back to the stage due to the horizontal knockback that they are faced with.

Side note: Although I think your idea of gimping would work well against people who don't DI , or are just generally less skillful players.

2. Its more practical to combo them up; its more reliable than your suggesting.
-Since players now in days for Super Smash Bros. Melee are plenty skillful enough, this attempt of a gimp on them would not work.

3. My worries about your knowledge about D.I. ; do you know what D.I. means?
-Directional Influence.

Side note: I or someone else can elaborate this to you if you don't know what D.I. is or how it is used to escape, ruin combos(the attempts of combos or further follow ups of combos), gimps and more.
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Another more experienced M2 will have to step in to say if Bthrow to disable will connect as a consecutive combo and if it is possible to use for gimping.

 

[Vienna]

1. I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding me. The idea isn't to uthrow them, then they land right infront of me so I can get a free stun while they're on the ground infront of me. The idea is to throw them up, then jump and do an aerial disable so that it does it's knockback effect as opposed to it's stun effect. At the percents I'm talking about, this is quite a bit more knockback than any of Mewtwo's other alternatives, including the bthrow.

2. If I wanted to combo, at low I could uthrow into fair spam or I could dthrow into techchases and other gay shenanigans. This isn't meant to be a combo set up as much as something you can do to gimp people, similar to Fox's uthrow > shine near the ledge against fastfallers.

3. I'm quite aware. Thanks though, boo.

EDIT: Think of Taj's uthrow > confusion that he uses to techchase, but instead of them falling, imagine that they're just being knocked back a really good amount for that low of a percent.

 

[The Prophet_]

1. I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding me. The idea isn't to uthrow them, then they land right infront of me so I can get a free stun while they're on the ground infront of me. The idea is to throw them up, then jump and do an aerial disable so that it does it's knockback effect as opposed to it's stun effect. At the percents I'm talking about, this is quite a bit more knockback than any of Mewtwo's other alternatives, including the bthrow.

2. If I wanted to combo, at low I could uthrow into fair spam or I could dthrow into techchases and other gay shenanigans. This isn't meant to be a combo set up as much as something you can do to gimp people, similar to Fox's uthrow > shine near the ledge against fastfallers.

3. I'm quite aware. Thanks though, boo.

EDIT: Think of Taj's uthrow > confusion that he uses to techchase, but instead of them falling, imagine that they're just being knocked back a really good amount for that low of a percent.

I understood your set up; what you are trying to do.
-Uthrow, sh jump, Down B(disable).

I now understand that you are following their D.I. by jumping while facing them. They are nearer to the ledge than you are.
-This is the only way this could possibly work if the opponent is trying to D.I. towards the center of the stage.

Well I don't know if this is any better than just a Bthrow. I don't know if by Uthrowing an opponent to then Disabling them would send them any further considering they can D.I. horizontally more efficiently than a Bthrow.

Another thought from me.
-This gimp set up looks mindgamey.

 

[TresChikon]

Naturally any grab by the ledge would gimp a spacie given you just read them properly.

Good luck grabbing a spacie on the ledge by the way. A good one at least.

 

[NadaisaGod]

edit:

10paws

 

[Vienna]

@Prophet: The idea is that you land a grab while you're facing the edge of a stage, yes. If you're facing away, then you can do the traditional bthrow, this just opens up the option to get the same effect while facing the other way, at low percents. And it can follow DI fine, you can sh in either direction at this low of a percent. Even if you don't feel comfortable with trying to land the disable (at this low of a percent, DI isn't quite as much of a factor regardless), you could just judge accordingly and start chaining fairs.

@Tres: This differs in that the disable has MORE knockback at lower percents and can be used while facing forward as opposed to only backward. Also, this isn't a question of how easy it is to grab a spacie as much as another option to do with said grab. Taj manages to grab good spacies all day, partially because he's Taj, but it just illustrates the point that it's quite possible. And it doesn't even have to be exactly next to the ledge; the disable has a surprising amount of knockback at low percents and with stages like YS, etc., practically the entire map is near a ledge.

I encourage everyone to actually get on their Gamecube and actually try and test this before they criticize it.

 

[TresChikon]

I never doubted the ability of the gimp. I can see how it's situational, but nevertheless, those situations will inevitably arise.

I just question the practicality of the set-up since a spacie has to have some pretty sloppy ledgeplay to get grabbed there.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Its a terrible idea

Its not a gimp at all. They still have all of their recovery options and at low percent will most likely make it back to the stage easily.

It can be done, but only as a surprise. If they are not shocked by it they can Di it in very well and will almost not leave the stage. Its whether or not they DI in or out.

from 0 percent you can do like 4 fairs a few more if they DI well for you, and utilt has more combo potential, leading into a nair which knocks them off the stage anyway.

Gimps are usually performed by hitting them down and away from the stage. You do not want to throw them up first to knock them away.

After like 20%(dont tell me this is good at 0 cuz they shouldnt even be on the edge if they havent been hit yet) you might as well: grab>taps>dthrow>dtilt/ftilt>ftilt. This way they are sent away and gravity pulls them down.

If you want to gimp somebody try experimenting with sneaking in a nair as they jump. Most of the time you can control if they shoot back or forward with your DI. ie steal their jump and shoot them away from the stage, or shoot them under on bf or stadium.

You can do this by WDing off the stage into a no jump nair. This works well after the setup above.

besides this only really works on FF, more so spacies because falcon can jump out. There are always better options unless you are goin for the "mindgame"

no more discussion is needed

 

[SDC]

Agreed Kaostar

Its not a gimp at all. They still have all of their recovery options and at low percent will most likely make it back to the stage easily.

It can be done, but only as a surprise. If they are not shocked by it they can Di it in very well and will almost not leave the stage. Its whether or not they DI in or out.

from 0 percent you can do like 4 fairs a few more if they DI well for you, and utilt has more combo potential, leading into a nair which knocks them off the stage anyway.

Gimps are usually performed by hitting them down and away from the stage. You do not want to throw them up first to knock them away.

After like 20%(dont tell me this is good at 0 cuz they shouldnt even be on the edge if they havent been hit yet) you might as well: grab>taps>dthrow>dtilt/ftilt>ftilt. This way they are sent away and gravity pulls them down.

If you want to gimp somebody try experimenting with sneaking in a nair as they jump. Most of the time you can control if they shoot back or forward with your DI. ie steal their jump and shoot them away from the stage, or shoot them under on bf or stadium.

You can do this by WDing off the stage into a no jump nair. This works well after the setup above.

besides this only really works on FF, more so spacies because falcon can jump out. There are always better options unless you are goin for the "mindgame"

no more discussion is needed

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Basically this

I'm glad you're trying to be creative, but it's not a good idea to do. Even if you are able to get a grab with your back to the edge, upthrow-->jump-->disable-->bair or bthrow-->bair are both bad ideas.

Upthrow-->jump-->disable is a bad idea because they can just DI back into the middle of the stage, and from there you should just be trying to shadowclaw/DJC shadowclaw/dtilt/grab etc combo them, instead of trying to disable-->edgeguard.

Bthrow-->bair at extremely low %'s is a bad idea because they will have all their options available, and they should be able to recover easily. Even if you are able to chase them a little bit with bair, remember, mewtwo's bair is not doc's bair. Mewtwo's bair is mediocre edgeguarder, not a broken sure thing like doc's. If you use mewtwo's bair at low percentages it will have extremely low knockback/recoil/hitstun. It is not a reliable gimper at low percentages against skilled opponents who know how to DI and how to recover well. The only person I've seen actually consistently try this is Iori lol, and as far as I've seen, even he rarely has success with it reliably. Go for the bair gimps at a little higher %'s.

Once again, I appreciate your attempt to be creative, but I wouldn't be doing this lol.