New Ganondorf Tech: Ganon Super Jump/Flight of Ganon!!!

[Tenki]

Perhaps you said buffer because of the lack of a better term, but it's misleading. Also, you can hold down during the wizkick slide too, but this was already posted about ad infinitum.

You still have to buffer the attack itself though, don't you?

;p

it's not just holding down.

Though, come to think about it, holding down must be a bad habit for you guys. It's totally bad DI.

 

[TP]

I did it!

Yes, I did a running-start-SH-double-jump-air-dodge-Super-Jump directed in the direction I had been going! THIS is where the edge guarding comes into play.

 

[Adapt]

wow this is really easy from a wizkick cancel... I can't do it any other way though

 

[Tenki]

I did it!

Yes, I did a running-start-SH-double-jump-air-dodge-Super-Jump directed in the direction I had been going! THIS is where the edge guarding comes into play.

ooooo

so the double jump was done from a short hop? :o

I thought the double jump was just some weird timing during a fullhop.

 

[hyperstation]

I did it!

Yes, I did a running-start-SH-double-jump-air-dodge-Super-Jump directed in the direction I had been going! THIS is where the edge guarding comes into play.

I've got this going pretty consistently after effing with it for like 10 minutes. Walking and doing this is really simple once you've got the basic Flight down. Running requires a slightly delayed timing on the second jump (or so it seems to me). It was mentioned before, but it bears repeating: Smashville is a very good stage to practice learning this tech. The jump should be buffered about when ganon's toes reach the heads of the people in the background. Since you're buffering it, no specific head is correct as they're all similar height.

Smashville is particularly helpful in learning the walking and running variations of the Flight of Ganon. Using the residents of Smashville as a meter stick, you can more accurately gauge when you should be airdodging and buffering, similar to the way one might use the markings on the floor of FD to practice the wiz kick variation. Don't look at the heads though, look at ganon's actions. Look at the exact position his body is in when you successfully pull of this move. Look at how far off the ground he his relative to the size of his body, his leg, his foot. Once you've etched that positioning into your head, try it on a stage with no useful markings on the background as well as a stage that has a rather hectic background.

SUMMATION (so far)

Known varieties of the Flight of Ganon:

Wiz Kick Cancel

1. Roll up against the side of a stage with your back to the ledge. Perform a wizkick and buffer a jump and vB at the same time during the end of his "roll out" animation. Note: this is only possible against certain ledges. I compiled a list elsewhere a while ago for a WKC thread which I will dig up later.
2. Stand on a platform with another platform within range of the wiz kick (e.g. Battlefield's two lower platforms). Perform a Wiz Kick from platform to platform and - in the same manner as the variety above - buffer jump and vB during the end of the "roll out" animation.

SH Airdodge

1. From standing, short hop (SH), and then at the peak of your SH (or slightly before) hit jump and airdodge (I use Z since it doesn't have the analog squishiness/inaccuracy of the R/L buttons). Right as you finish the airdodge animation, buffer a jump and vB at the same time.
2. SH airdodge off a platform of correct height (known to me: Smashville. Any others?) Like above, as you reach the end of your airdodge animation, buffer jump and vB at the same time.
3. Walk forward and do the actions in item number 1 listed above.
4. Run forward and do the actions in item number 1 listed above. Adjust your timing as necessary (a little slower than the standing Flight in my experience).

FJ-> DJ Airdodge NEW

I've managed to get full jumps work with this tactic. As it were, this has nothing to do with short hopping, as many of us already presupposed. It has to do with the height from the ground at which you perform your second jump air dodge. I can do a full jump and then airdodge at the correct height with my second jump, and the rest is just business as usual.

This is potentially ridiculously huge news for the flexibility of this move. Theoretically, you could be falling all the way from the top of the screen and then use your second jump at the correct height above the ground in conjunction with an immediate airdodge in order to Fly back up again. This also explains why someone was able to do a footstool->second jump airdodge into Flight.​

DAD's theoretical varieties of the Flight of Ganon:

Note: I have not successfully performed ANY of these, but in theory, they could work.

The SH Airdodge varieties listed above all have to do with a "glitch" which is known as the Infinite Second Jump Recovery (ISJR). If you don't know the specifics of it, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173119&highlight=ISJR . In short, ISJR is buffering a jump out of specific aerial tactics which put your character the right height off the ground upon finishing them to buffer a jump.

Ganon's aerials are as follows: DAir, BAir, UAir. As seen in this video (Japanandorf, homie!), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbLWN9NM-8&NR=1 , they all must be full hopped. If the only prerequisite for the Flight of Ganondorf is that a move ends at the correct height above the ground as to allow buffered jumping, then in theory, the following should be possible, and I encourage everyone to try these while they're working on the other, known varieties:

1. DAir. Full hop a Dair and buffer in a second FH Dair before hitting the ground, using up your second jump. As your second DAir finishes, in the same way you would recover your second jump by buffering in a third jump or aerial, buffer a jump and vB at the same time. Application: Thunderstorm jumping (not truly thunderstorming since it's not SH Autocancelled Dair) as a spacing tactic.
2. Bair. Same directions as above. Application: Spacing, Edge guarding.
3. Uair. Same directions as above. Application: Juggling, Spacing, Edge guarding.

Note: Obviously, being able to use Flight right out of one of these aerials that actually connects with your opponent would be unbelievably useful. E.g. FJ Dair at a high percentage sending your opponent very high up. Buffer a second ISJR aerial and then use Flight to get the kill off the top of the stage with Uair. I'm not sure if connecting with something throws off your timing to the point of not being able to recover the second jump, but I'm also not willing to write it off yet. As we quickly found out with the Wiz Kick Cancel variety of the Flight, hitting an opponent does not affect your ability to Fly.

Final note: Did you notice how I insisted on calling it "The Flight of Ganondorf," "Flight," or "Flying"? Let's show our respects to rihuganon who introduced us to the tech and coined it as such. We won't suffer the Americanization of the term, lessening it to "Super Jump". Christ...how banal.

I hope this might help some people who are still having trouble, and that it might similarly inspire people to try to make these other ISJR aerials work with the Flight.

 

[TP]

Final note: Did you notice how I insisted on calling it "The Flight of Ganondorf," "Flight," or "Flying"? Let's show our respects to rihuganon who introduced us to the tech and coined it as such. We won't suffer the Americanization of the term, lessening it to "Super Jump". Christ...how banal.

I sincerely apologize.

If it is "The Flight of Ganondorf," can we call it FOG?

Oh, and FOG>Warlock Punch online causes the person you hit to disconnect and their character can no longer be chosen on their Wii. It also gives them a brain aneurysm.

 

[M15t3R E]

Thank you for your analyses, hyperstation.
I can add it to the first page if you'd like.

As for the name...
I am active in the Pikachu board and some people call our staple tech the QAC, while some call it quack, or quacking.
I read Rihuganon's entire thread but could not find where he called it the "Flight of Ganon".
Everyone may call it what they wish. It doesn't bother me if anyone would rather not adopt the term "super jump". I had to call it something, ya know?

On a side note: I am sorry if I peeve you. I was bored, surfing SWF that night when Rihuganon's vids intrigued me. I lost much sleep the night I practiced and made a video for the FOG/super jump, resulting in about 1 hour of sleep when I had work in the morning.

I am not in it for the glory. I clearly credited Rihuganon, Swoops, and K Prime for the development of this new tech. I sincerely thank them all and do believe they have played an equal role in revealing this tech to Board. Except for Rihuganon, our humble Japanandorf. He played the biggest role of all.

 

[SuSa]

This reminds me of Lucas's Zap Jump.....

I'm calling it (wiz)Kick Jumping.... don't care how much **** I get for calling it that....

Great AT, would make a great mindgame vs those 'high flyers' :D

 

[TP]

I'm calling it (wiz)Kick Jumping.... don't care how much **** I get for calling it that....

Slight problem: the wizkick is currently the least useful version.

 

[hyperstation]

Thank you for your analyses, hyperstation.
I can add it to the first page if you'd like.

That would be fine, but I'd rather wait to see if anyone responds, adding to or discrediting some of the things I've posted.

EDIT: Added a new bit to my list a few posts up about Flying and Full Jumping. I just keep getting more excited about this move.

 

[Little England]

This should be stickied by now

 

[Blackbelt]

Wow. It appears that recovering high is no longer an effective option against Ganon, and also Ganon has an effective aerial chase game.


I am impressed.

 

[M15t3R E]

This should be stickied by now

Lol, idk about that.

I saw this has already been added to your list of techs. That may be enough. If you guys feel this needs to be stickied, then go ahead.

 

[SuSa]

Slight problem: the wizkick is currently the least useful version.

Slight problem: Jumping + Down+B (Wizkick) = Wizkick

I'm still calling it (Wiz)Kick Jump (wiz is sort of optional...)

Also:

I like that alt method :3 did it on my first try... xD

 

[Little England]

Ganon sucks. This makes him quite a bit better. Sticky.

 

[hyperstation]

Ganon sucks. This makes him quite a bit better. Sticky.

Why are you calling for this to be stickied twice within one hour. In fact, why are you calling for this to be stickied at all? It's a tech thread which is barely out of it's infancy, and it's been at the top of the ganon forum for a few days. I don't think we're at risk of this thread falling to the wayside and being forgotten anytime soon.

 

[Swoops]

Ganon sucks. This makes him quite a bit better. Sticky.

First of all...you don't sticky this, and I would be pissed and confused to see it stickied, there is no reason too, even if it did break Ganon.

This tech doesn't make him much better by any stretch of the imagination, in the future it could be useful against snake, and following up U-smash and stomp at high percents, assuming it doesn't kill them. Maybe in the future, further exploits of the physics will surface, but for right now this is not ground breaking at all.

And shame on all of you for just now thinking you can play Ganon, as if you need a tech to actually play him seriously.

 

[M15t3R E]

I think they're right. No tech thread warrants a sticky.
I see this tech has been added to the stickied list of Ganon techs. Unfortunately, it's quite lacking on the info.
A more descriptive section for it would be nice for the Ganon community.

 

[Slack is Love]

I just started practicing this today, and I've got some tips that might help out for the non murder kick version.

First of all, when you short hop, let Ganon drop EVER SO SLIGHTLY and then jump+dodge. This will help for the placement of that ring.

Secondly, as that one guy said, buffer down by pressing down on the control stick, but not so you fast fall. You probably want to do this during the dodge or something.

Lastly, jump+down b sooner than you think you have to.

 

[:034:]

I can do the Wizkick method 100% now... DJA version about 50%.

The thing about the DJA is not so much the timing, but all the **** you have to do at the same time... It really threw me off at first.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Has anyone had any luck yet doing the Wizkick Cancel into Super Jump towards the ledge yet? I'm having trouble managing it usually zooming off into oblivion I've only done it into the stage and the dodge version is really hard to get the timing down.

 

[Swoops]

Personally the DJ method became easier when I got the timing down for the actual DJ into air dodge. DJ and air dodge right at the peak of the SH, and I mean right at the peak, and the rest seems kinda easy.

 

[GotenOnNimbus]

Messing around with this, not sure if anyone noticed, but he rises slightly as he winds up with Neutral B, maybe half a Ganon height, give or take. You do sort of a Warlock Hop...You sink, rise while winding up, and land with a punch shortly after. All you do is input B instead of down B with your jump.

Not sure how useful it is, but eh, figured it was worth mentioning, since everyone's pretty focused on trying to get the Ganon Flight to work correctly.


FH version's currently the hardest to do consistently...Wizkick and SH versions, after a little while it becomes pretty easy to do. Once you remember where the rings are when you SH, all you have to do is time it almost as soon as he crosses where the rings were.

 

[Gleam]

I think they're right. No tech thread warrants a sticky.
I see this tech has been added to the stickied list of Ganon techs. Unfortunately, it's quite lacking on the info.
A more descriptive section for it would be nice for the Ganon community.

Yeah, I really only put in the main gist about it, nothing truly deep. However with the popularity of the Super Jump, unless we find out that it's about as useful as Murder Quake, this will not be forgotten easily or soon.

 

[Tenki]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175060

lol stickies.

On that note, that one pretty much revolutionized/ changed the Yoshi metagame and became a 'must know' move.

this? who knows ;3

 

[Anomilus]

I've practice Draconic Reversing... bleh I couldn't really do it at 1x speed. >=/

 

[hyperstation]

First of all...you don't sticky this, and I would be pissed and confused to see it stickied, there is no reason too, even if it did break Ganon.

This tech doesn't make him much better by any stretch of the imagination, in the future it could be useful against snake, and following up U-smash and stomp at high percents, assuming it doesn't kill them. Maybe in the future, further exploits of the physics will surface, but for right now this is not ground breaking at all.

And shame on all of you for just now thinking you can play Ganon, as if you need a tech to actually play him seriously.

Sentiments agreed. We ganon mains can be cranky about a handful of tourists showing up once our King learned to Fly. All of us believers knew he was working on it in secret and wasn't going to reveal it to the world until they were ready.

Swoops, you crazy...and really, you just lazy, homie. You keep crying about how it's not useful and then sometime a few weeks from now when we ditto again, I'm going to be bouncing around like I'm a crack fiend while you're pouting down on the ground with your thumb in your butt. Just playin, Swoops, but I'm serious. My Ganon's gonna get real Flubber up in this sh*t.

 

[:034:]

Dad ain't lying.

Agreed with Swoops and Dad again, just because one little thing happens people flock to Ganondorf? We don't really appreciate that. Same thing happened when he was in the Weekly Character Discussion... I think I got an infraction for flaming someone because of this very same issue.

 

[Tenki]

I've got this going pretty consistently after effing with it for like 10 minutes. Walking and doing this is really simple once you've got the basic Flight down. Running requires a slightly delayed timing on the second jump (or so it seems to me). It was mentioned before, but it bears repeating: Smashville is a very good stage to practice learning this tech. The jump should be buffered about when ganon's toes reach the heads of the people in the background. Since you're buffering it, no specific head is correct as they're all similar height.


FJ-> DJ Airdodge NEW

I've managed to get full jumps work with this tactic. As it were, this has nothing to do with short hopping, as many of us already presupposed. It has to do with the height from the ground at which you perform your second jump air dodge. I can do a full jump and then airdodge at the correct height with my second jump, and the rest is just business as usual.

This is potentially ridiculously huge news for the flexibility of this move. Theoretically, you could be falling all the way from the top of the screen and then use your second jump at the correct height above the ground in conjunction with an immediate airdodge in order to Fly back up again. This also explains why someone was able to do a footstool->second jump airdodge into Flight.​

DAD's theoretical varieties of the Flight of Ganon:

Note: I have not successfully performed ANY of these, but in theory, they could work.

The SH Airdodge varieties listed above all have to do with a "glitch" which is known as the Infinite Second Jump Recovery (ISJR). If you don't know the specifics of it, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173119&highlight=ISJR . In short, ISJR is buffering a jump out of specific aerial tactics which put your character the right height off the ground upon finishing them to buffer a jump.

Ganon's aerials are as follows: DAir, BAir, UAir. As seen in this video (Japanandorf, homie!), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbLWN9NM-8&NR=1 , they all must be full hopped. If the only prerequisite for the Flight of Ganondorf is that a move ends at the correct height above the ground as to allow buffered jumping, then in theory, the following should be possible, and I encourage everyone to try these while they're working on the other, known varieties:

1. DAir. Full hop a Dair and buffer in a second FH Dair before hitting the ground, using up your second jump. As your second DAir finishes, in the same way you would recover your second jump by buffering in a third jump or aerial, buffer a jump and vB at the same time. Application: Thunderstorm jumping (not truly thunderstorming since it's not SH Autocancelled Dair) as a spacing tactic.
2. Bair. Same directions as above. Application: Spacing, Edge guarding.
3. Uair. Same directions as above. Application: Juggling, Spacing, Edge guarding.

You might not have figured out the whole DJAD-at-right-height thing, but at the beginning, it's possible to do it out of a run as long as you DJ at the right height.

Thank you for bringing up the Ganon ISJR aerial thing in a better way than I did earlier. I have yet to perform a normal aerial ISJR with Ganon, but I did pull off the Flight with Falcon.

The way I tested the timing was FH insta airdodge as Falcon and spamming double jump until he jumped, then adjusted the timing accordingly.

Falcon's bounce is pathetic :l it looks just like his short hop, except with a special flip action lol.

I also tried it with Sonic and got some weird looking full hop height bounces while charging his specials, but yeah.

This is amazing for Ganondorf.

With that said, it should be possible to perform out of aerials as you guessed.

On a weird note, I don't see why you people are riled up about this. It's just something people will play around with, like MK's infinite cape, then they'll leave eventually. How do you think MK mains felt when all of a sudden, the wave of bandwagoners started 'maining' MK as well? XD

 

[:034:]

I've been practicing with it on multiple stages... I managed one follow-up on Battlefield. xD

It's also really easy to do on Frigate Orpheon, and useful too. High ceiling but small walls = perfect for fairs.

 

[Swoops]

Swoops, you crazy...and really, you just lazy, homie. You keep crying about how it's not useful and then sometime a few weeks from now when we ditto again, I'm going to be bouncing around like I'm a crack fiend while you're pouting down on the ground with your thumb in your butt. Just playin, Swoops, but I'm serious. My Ganon's gonna get real Flubber up in this sh*t.

Psh, I have my reasons as why I believe it to be semi-useful. Never said it was useless, but from what I've learned, Ganon doesn't want to be high in the air coming down on the opponent.

Like I said, it might become a lot more useful with the exploitation of the physics (ISJR,) but for right now, Ganon flying is like if an emu just started learning how to fly. It's clumsy, not very useful, and the bird is probably going to die...just be thankful we have stocks. Over time though, it'll help tremendously. That's all I'm saying with my sage-like analogies.

On a weird note, I don't see why you people are riled up about this. It's just something people will play around with, like MK's infinite cape, then they'll leave eventually.

Lol, we're really just playing, we know they'll leave eventually. We're a very sensitive people us Ganon mains. We get hurt when we see our precious Ganny get made fun of, and then are concerned when he makes tons of friends when he gets boobs-or learns how to fly I mean.

How do you think MK mains felt when all of a sudden, the wave of bandwagoners started 'maining' MK as well? XD

>_____________________>

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Woah, what have I missed? Why do people suddenly like Ganon? Meta Knight got banned or something?



Personally I don't mind more people coming to Ganny, we need new blood. But always remember that Smurfydorf is the true Ganon color. XD

I really don't see me using this tech all that much though TBH. I think Thunderstorming is my favorite/only really tech I use anyway haha

 

[TP]

I have confirmed that you can do FOG>AirDodge>FOG. The dodge has to be a bit past the peak of the first Flight. Mindgames, anyone?

 

[Little England]

I like how people got all buckwild about the sticky thing. Take a chill pill lol

I didn't bother even reading it. I just saw an necessary amount of text about a minuscule statement.

 

[Tenki]

I have confirmed that you can do FOG>AirDodge>FOG. The dodge has to be a bit past the peak of the first Flight. Mindgames, anyone?

oh cool, I was thinking about that one lol.

How far down do you have to be?

 

[Anomilus]

Has anyone tried Flying from a ledge jump? I tried it but to no avail. I didn't attempt it at a slower speed though where I tend to have more success.

 

[TP]

oh cool, I was thinking about that one lol.

How far down do you have to be?

That is hard to describe, sorry. I'd say one Ganon from the peak, but you really just have to try until you find it.

 

[Divilenta]

And shame on all of you for just now thinking you can play Ganon, as if you need a tech to actually play him seriously.

I've been trying to play well with Ganon for quite a while, this just made me stick to him.

Doing about 25% of the time with the "easier" method, not even going to try the midair one.

EDIT: Upon viewing the japanese vid again, I'll give it a shot.

 

[M15t3R E]

Has anyone tried Flying from a ledge jump? I tried it but to no avail. I didn't attempt it at a slower speed though where I tend to have more success.

I have already tested this and could not make it work. I strongly believe this is a glitch, an off-shoot of the ISJR, that will only work with walkable ground directly beneath you.

On the bright side, look how useful this is on Battlefield. Notice there are two platforms on the same even level. You can wizkick cancel from one platform to the other and easily pull off the tech like that.

 

[Tenki]

Has anyone tried Flying from a ledge jump? I tried it but to no avail. I didn't attempt it at a slower speed though where I tend to have more success.

I've been able to do it this way:

Ledgejump (jump button from edge) > wait until right height > DJAD > fly

trying to chain multiple flights atm...
3 minutes later.

Success #1! lol

woot got 3 flights in a row loll