New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Shin F.]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai wanted to purge most of the Mother 3 content. This seems evident by how little references there are to it, and I think that has to do with the backlash it'd get from Western audiences for including extensive Mother 3 content but still not releasing Mother 3.

Not really the best reasoning, but it's certainly an explanation. At least with the Mother 1 content, nobody really cares about an overseas release and there was never a huge backlash for it.

No, it's really not. On the contrary, speaking as a Mother fan who talks to other Mother fans, many of us are pretty peeved (putting it lightly) about the total lack of Mother 3 content since that is literally the only Mother content we ever get from Nintendo. Mother fans are pretty much universally happy to see anything Mother-related in Smash.

 

[Das Koopa]

Or, perhaps, they're just trying to make people largely forget about Mother 3.

It's evident he was cut due to some reason related to Mother 3's situation overseas otherwise I'm pretty sure there would've been a more offhand Lucas reference. (like giving Ness his shirt, for example)

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

It's evident he was cut due to some reason related to Mother 3's situation overseas

Again, there's no proof of that.

 

[Shin F.]

Or, perhaps, they're just trying to make people largely forget about Mother 3.

It's evident he was cut due to some reason related to Mother 3's situation overseas otherwise I'm pretty sure there would've been a more offhand Lucas reference. (like giving Ness his shirt, for example)

Uh, no. If they wanted us to forget it, they wouldn't have blatantly brought it up in E3, the one place where you're going to get it the most exposure. The entire argument makes literally zero sense, especially considering how dedicated Mother fans tend to be to the series. There's no way that community is just going to forget about the game.

 

[Das Koopa]

Again, there's no proof of that.

There's no other real reason for Nintendo to it outside of wanting make people forget or trying to stop further backlash from a lack of a US release of Mother 3.

I understand you and most Mother fans probably are happy to see a bunch of Mother related content in Smash, but Nintendo may not believe that's what the fandom's reaction would be. They may think Mother fans would further complain over a lack of Mother 3 and may just want to get rid of most references to it.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

There's no other real reason for Nintendo to it outside of wanting make people forget or trying to stop further backlash from a lack of a US release of Mother 3.

I understand you and most Mother fans probably are happy to see a bunch of Mother related content in Smash, but Nintendo may not believe that's what the fandom's reaction would be. They may think Mother fans would further complain over a lack of Mother 3 and may just want to get rid of most references to it.

If that's true then they made a hilariously big mistake.

starmen.net's motto is literally "Do not underestimate us," which we've demonstrated time and time again. We're not gonna "forget" about Mother 3 because Smash 4 excluded content from it because Mother content in the Smash games is all we have to look forward to now that the series is finished. It'll simply fuel our passion for a worldwide Mother 3 release even further.

So no, I don't think that's the reason.

 

[Shin F.]

There's no other real reason for Nintendo to it outside of wanting make people forget or trying to stop further backlash from a lack of a US release of Mother 3.

I understand you and most Mother fans probably are happy to see a bunch of Mother related content in Smash, but Nintendo may not believe that's what the fandom's reaction would be. They may think Mother fans would further complain over a lack of Mother 3 and may just want to get rid of most references to it.

So you're saying that their solution to preventing backlash over a lack of Mother 3 content... is to not provide Mother 3 content.

Yeah, that makes complete and total sense. To a 2 year old. Do you know anything about marketing? Like, at all? Withholding what someone wants doesn't get them off your back, it fuels more complaints.

 

[Das Koopa]

For the record, what inspired me to think this was that Mother 1 - a game largely not talked about - suddenly gets references, and then they introduce a pretty expansive Mother-fanservice stage strangely absent of Mother 3 content, whilst having seemingly few Mother 3 content at all, to speak of. Yet, they have Mother 1 and 2 content.

I don't see how it isn't reasonable to assume somebody wanted to get rid of the Mother 3 references and that mindset prevailed. Anything after that is conjecture, but it seems reasonable to assume after that it has to do with something relating to Mother 3's lack of western release. Not saying it was reasonable or logical for Nintendo to do, but I think that's along the lines of what happened.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

For the record, what inspired me to think this was that Mother 1 - a game largely not talked about - suddenly gets references, and then they introduce a pretty expansive Mother-fanservice stage strangely absent of Mother 3 content, whilst having seemingly few Mother 3 content at all, to speak of. Yet, they have Mother 1 and 2 content.

Maybe it's because, I dunno, Magicant was a location in the first 2 games and not Mother 3?

 

[Shin F.]

For the record, what inspired me to think this was that Mother 1 - a game largely not talked about - suddenly gets references, and then they introduce a pretty expansive Mother-fanservice stage strangely absent of Mother 3 content, whilst having seemingly few Mother 3 content at all, to speak of. Yet, they have Mother 1 and 2 content.

I don't see how it isn't reasonable to assume somebody wanted to get rid of the Mother 3 references and that mindset prevailed. Anything after that is conjecture, but it seems reasonable to assume after that it has to do with something relating to Mother 3's lack of western release. Not saying it was reasonable or logical for Nintendo to do, but I think that's along the lines of what happened.

I very seriously doubt it. What about the Japanese fans who do have the game? They get burnt because Nintendo is stupid over this?

If anything, it's likely that there's little Mother 3 content because Lucas is gone, not the other way around. Showing tons of Mother 3 stuff while the main character is gone might remind people of what they've lost, which Sakurai might want to avoid. As a consolation to fans of the series, he adds tons of Mother 1 content.

None of which is a reason to remove Lucas, but happened because of his absence, not the other way around. And like I said -

If they wanted us to forget it, they wouldn't have blatantly brought it up in E3, the one place where you're going to get it the most exposure.

I'm done with this argument. It makes zero sense from any perspective, and has no evidence to stand on.

 

[Das Koopa]

So you're saying that their solution to preventing backlash over a lack of Mother 3 content... is to not provide Mother 3 content.

Yeah, that makes complete and total sense. To a 2 year old. Do you know anything about marketing? Like, at all? Withholding what someone wants doesn't get them off your back, it fuels more complaints.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you Nintendo is amazing at marketing. They make and have made many, many mistakes like any major gaming company does. It's not out of the realm of possibility for them to have made a dumb decision regarding the Mother series.

But if Lucas wasn't cut due to overseas backlash, what's your theory?

 

[Shin F.]

I'm not going to sit here and tell you Nintendo is amazing at marketing. They make and have made many, many mistakes like any major gaming company does. It's not out of the realm of possibility for them to have made a dumb decision regarding the Mother series.

But if Lucas wasn't cut due to overseas backlash, what's your theory?

Time constraints, obviously. Which, ya know, caused seven characters to get cut in Brawl and was likely the reason for a number of cuts here. Probably the same reason Wolf is gone.

 

[Das Koopa]

Time constraints, obviously. Which, ya know, caused seven characters to get cut in Brawl and was likely the reason for a number of cuts here.

if my thing about Lucas is wrong, it would indeed include him and Wolf.

However, I'm pretty sure:

-Ivysaur and Squirtle were cut as to not oversaturate Pokemon representation. I doubt they were ever planned at all once Trainer was dropped.
-Snake was probably dropped due to licensing issues.
-Ice Climbers were almost assuredly cut due to 3DS limitations.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

Sakurai never said they'd cut clones, lol. I don't know where people get this, and the roster size comment was in 2012. Also, no, there was never decision to remove Wolf and Ice Climbers for "clones". That's ludicrous and ignores that it takes the dev team far less time to make clones than it does to make fully fledged characters. They added six clones to Melee in the time Sakuai might've been able to finish one newcomer.

Frankly, Wolf is the only character cut that doesn't have a good explanation, but it should be remembered that he was probably the last character added to Brawl. Possibly even post-Sonic.

Actually he did, or he said something along those lines. If my memory isn't hazy it was when he was stating that some characters from Brawl won`t be returning because he didn't have time to put them in the game (yet he still went and delayed the game. Why didn't he delay it so he could add the characters instead of throwing in clones in a half-assed manner and throwing them in the character select screen as if they're actually distinctive to be their own character). He didn't flat out say no more clone characters but he said he would be removing characters that played too similarly with one another. How do you think he decided on removing his characters? Drawing from a hat? Or do you think that when they were adding Brawl newcomers they were rushed to the point where they stopped at L for Lucas? (not likely since R.O.B is in the game)

Decision: a conclusion (Sm4sh release) reached after consideration (was intended, whether it was in Sakurai's mind when he stated he would remove characters or late in development nobody knows).

What do you mean there wasn't a decision? Are you saying they forgot about them? Of course they made a decision to remove them for the main reason being time constraints which honestly annoys me because Sakurai used the same excuse with Brawl which is why Brawl and this had extended release dates. It really makes you wonder why they extended the release date and still not have time to finish their game, if it were up to me I would've made the release date long enough to have leeway for release and with that leeway use the time for testing. If the game was fully ready I would announce the release early in Nintendo Direct, it would be unpredictable to the consumers and they wouldn't be pissed because their expectations would be set on the late release (that's the only common sense thing to do). Similar to how the PMBR is handling their new update, give an ambiguous release to not stir up high expectations yet they still control the hype by giving minor-major reveals (before the year end). It's hard to forgive someone who does the same mistake twice.

I'm not part of the Sm4sh dev team but I can guarantee you they did not go in a specific order in making their character cuts which is why the roster cuts make no sense. Unless Sakurai makes a statement on the process of his character removal then there's no closure to be had. Honestly though, I rather he didn't make a statement because that would pretty much be starting a wildfire.

 

[Das Koopa]

Sakurai specifically stated "Not all characters who've made it into the Smash series before would return". The quote was so specific that most interpreted it to relate to Melee more necessarily than Brawl. I do not have idea of how you twist this into him saying that they'd cut clones - there's never been any indication this would stop happening, and most fighting games have it.

I said that they didn't make decision to cut one character specifically for another. Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit had zero impact on potential inclusions and did not take away from any of the precious and highly requested newcomers or veterans that didn't make it or got cut. People act like Sakurai made the decision to cut Lucas and Wolf for those three when we know that Sakurai managed to include six clones in Melee as a way of padding out the roster in the time it would've taken to add one character. (Specifically: King Dedede.)

Brawl's delay was also almost assuredly at least partially due to the inclusion of extra characters/data. They didn't have enough time to add the seven they wanted too. But, Sonic's late approval of being added into the game based on what I understand was a large reason for the delay. If you take Brawl data mining into account, it seems to support that several characters were scrapped but a few were later brought back in with whatever extra development time they were granted with Sonic. Namely Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff. This is further supported by their lack of involvement in Subpace and low priority when looking into Brawl's data.

Whatever extra development time they needed for this game probably wasn't related to characters since we never even got anything specific past "Summer 2014". It looks like the delay was more of like the second Brawl delay (only about an extra month) which probably didn't involve any extra character additions.

I really don't think too many characters were limited by time constrains. Ivysaur and Squirtle are probably a big "?", but it's possible development time affected their decision to even include them. I can see them being absent from the game's data entirely as characters because maybe it was decided to give other characters work before adding 2 Pokemon not many cared about.

Snake and Icies almost assuredly had nothing to do with development time. I doubt Snake was ever even considered and that Icies were something they just couldn't make work without lagging the 3DS if four Icies were on screen at once. Hence, they were scrapped.

It is worth mentioning that DLC is probably better than delaying the game a number of months just to see a fan-favorite make it in when the game comes out. I mean, if Lucas WAS cut due to time constraints, then he and Wolf are probably top contenders for DLC.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

Sakurai specifically stated "Not all characters who've made it into the Smash series before would return". The quote was so specific that most interpreted it to relate to Melee more necessarily than Brawl. I do not have idea of how you twist this into him saying that they'd cut clones - there's never been any indication this would stop happening, and most fighting games have it.

I said that they didn't make decision to cut one character specifically for another. Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit had zero impact on potential inclusions and did not take away from any of the precious and highly requested newcomers or veterans that didn't make it or got cut. People act like Sakurai made the decision to cut Lucas and Wolf for those three when we know that Sakurai managed to include six clones in Melee as a way of padding out the roster in the time it would've taken to add one character. (Specifically: King Dedede.)

Brawl's delay was also almost assuredly at least partially due to the inclusion of extra characters/data. They didn't have enough time to add the seven they wanted too. But, Sonic's late approval of being added into the game based on what I understand was a large reason for the delay. If you take Brawl data mining into account, it seems to support that several characters were scrapped but a few were later brought back in with whatever extra development time they were granted with Sonic. Namely Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff. This is further supported by their lack of involvement in Subpace and low priority when looking into Brawl's data.

Whatever extra development time they needed for this game probably wasn't related to characters since we never even got anything specific past "Summer 2014". It looks like the delay was more of like the second Brawl delay (only about an extra month) which probably didn't involve any extra character additions.

I really don't think too many characters were limited by time constrains. Ivysaur and Squirtle are probably a big "?", but it's possible development time affected their decision to even include them. I can see them being absent from the game's data entirely as characters because maybe it was decided to give other characters work before adding 2 Pokemon not many cared about.

Snake and Icies almost assuredly had nothing to do with development time. I doubt Snake was ever even considered and that Icies were something they just couldn't make work without lagging the 3DS if four Icies were on screen at once. Hence, they were scrapped.

It is worth mentioning that DLC is probably better than delaying the game a number of months just to see a fan-favorite make it in when the game comes out. I mean, if Lucas WAS cut due to time constraints, then he and Wolf are probably top contenders for DLC.

The information where Sakurai said what I posted was in an interview after Nintendo Direct. You get more information through one on one interviews than through Nintendo Direct anyways and since this was after that Nintendo Direct, I stuck with what he said there. I tried looking for it but I can't find it, it's been almost a year so I expected as much but since I can't find evidence to satisfy you I'll just stop arguing about it but I have better things to do than to throw words into Sakurai's mouth so take that for what it is.

That isn't what you said, but I will take this correction and roll with it. That isn't the problem I have with Sakurai. The problem is the character select screen, he made costume swaps into characters (Ex. Olimar-Louie (If that's his name) and Bowser Jr.-Koopalings) throwing in Dr. Mario and Dark Pit in the character select screen as if they are stand alone characters is what annoys me (this is now the third time I'm saying this). Secondly, how do you know this? This post and the last post makes you look like Nintendo hired you as a playtester or put you on the dev team because apparently you know what Sakurai has been planning. At this point it feels like you're making excuses for the sake of making them.

Don't know much about the intricacies of Brawl before launch but I do know that time was a big factor in the delay so I'll take your word for it.

Not going to dive into this one because it's baseless conjecture but I will keep it my mind when somebody cracks the game which will more than likely happen.

Makes sense, onto the next paragraph.

Sure, but this is Nintendo we're talking about, in terms of technological innovation they are severely lacking to companies like Sony and Microsoft (Hopefully, I don't have to remind you of online Brawl). Last console gen was the generation for updates but Nintendo didn't make use of that; so I would rather them be old-fashioned and attempt to create a fully complete game upon release (like almost every other game) instead of throwing an unfinished game on the shelves which they will work on after release (one of the reasons I didn't like games like Killer Instinct which is why it's partially dead (got stale and not enough content)).

 

[Sour Supreme]

Guys, my main is gone.

Stop arguing about why.

It makes me sad. ;-;

 

[ZeruSlayer]

Guys, my main is gone.

Stop arguing about why.

It makes me sad. ;-;

Give it about a week, I'll be less salty about all this and be back to normal

 

[GunBuster]

That isn't the problem I have with Sakurai. The problem is the character select screen, he made costume swaps into characters (Ex. Olimar-Alph and Bowser Jr.-Koopalings) throwing in Dr. Mario and Dark Pit in

holy ****, this.

how they didn't just make lucina, doc and pittoo 4 different colors for their respective base characters I'll never understand. especially when sakurai goes on to explain "even a small difference in abilities" gives reason for a roster position when all the differences are just slight property changes to attacks. it's nonsensical. I'd rather play with a tipper lucina than an always safe version of Marth. hell, Lucas could have been AT LEAST one of these costume swaps for Ness.

what upsets me most is while the Mother Magicant stage is absolutely amazing, it's kind of rubbing salt in the wound as to just how much Mother 3 got shafted this time around. what the Hell, Sakurai.

 

[PikaSamus]

+Ridley
Since he's sadly not in Smash 4

 

[arcticfox8]

This is a thread for PM

 

[Friesnchip]

This is a thread for PM

Look at this guy, bringing the hard truth. He's right, this topic shouldn't be about disappointment with the cuts from Smash 4, it should be about celebrating what P:M has now, and the content that will continue to grow and surpass its successor in some regards.

Namely, newcomers due to the clone engine. Let's discuss that, 'cause I'm pretty hype that Isaac could be in P:M rather than Smash 4.

 

[Darkevilprice995]

The cons for some of the characters (High probability of Appearing in Smash 4) in the OP can be taken out.

Also, there seems to be a rather large rumor about Sami, Isaac, Knuckles, and Skull Kid. Is this at all legit?

 

[MLGF]

We don't talk about rumors, because PM guys get mad.

Although, it seems like everyone I meet somehow "knows a guy" in the PMBR though.

 

[Darkevilprice995]

We don't talk about rumors, because PM guys get mad.

Although, it seems like everyone I meet somehow "knows a guy" in the PMBR though.

Yeah, figured that was the case as many were talking about it yet it was barely mentioned on these forums.

 

[NisforSmash]

-Ice Climbers were almost assuredly cut due to 3DS limitations.

I'm not buying a word of that. I know that's what he said but you can't just honestly sit back and believe sakurai couldn't find a single way to make ice climbers playable. It's right in front of our faces yet nobody wants to acknowledge it. Just separate them.

Literally no excuse why they weren't given this treatment. It happened to zelda and shiek. Were zelda fans butthurt at first? Sure but considering they're both still playable and have a plethora more dedicated moves both parties (zelda & shiek or sakurai & fans) benefited from the decision. On top of that, If he did actually split them up it would save him alot of work. Their moveset is fine as is, just polish it and refine certain moves to match the new engine and balance them to play on their own. Throw in a couple customs and IC's fans are happy. Plus there's no need to worry about an alt because you can just use Nana. No more worrying about desynchs, chain grabs or anything else they could have had a problem with.

Ice climbers weren't cut because of 3ds limitations. Ice climbers were cut because he didn't want them in the game and it's plain and simple as that. He used that as an excuse to introduce supposedly more "interesting" characters like oh idk dark pit and dr. mario. Gettin real tired of your shi*t Mashpotato Samurai.

/rant

PMDT pls deliver. I want a smash dream cast but the little glimmer of hope is starting to fade.

 

[lordvaati]

wellp, the last time I was here the polls were closed....since they are reopened, guess I can consider tossing in Clone character votes again.

Um, it doesn't negate my older votes, does it?

 

[Shin F.]

wellp, the last time I was here the polls were closed....since they are reopened, guess I can consider tossing in Clone character votes again.

Um, it doesn't negate my older votes, does it?

Nope, old votes have all carried over.

 

[leekslap]

Remove Bowser Jr. as an option for the clone engine cuz he's already in the new game. I'd go with just about any clone engine character as long as he's fun and unique. Even if it is a clone, I'm sure the PMDT will do it justice. Just look at Roy! That being said, here are my new votes:
UP VOTE
- Paper Mario
Why: Although I was born at the very end of the N64 lifespan, my dad had two emulators on his laptop with some games he had backed up. It wasn't the most grand collection but one game that I really loved was Paper Mario. It was my favorite game along with Star Fox 64, Smash Bros, Super Mario World, and Turtles in Time. I think I played it 100% on each of the save files and it's still in that old laptop. I have extreme nostalgia over that game even though I'm not a seasoned adult gamer. I always like G&W in Brawl so a twist on his moveset could just be what I need.

- Skull Kid
Why: Majora's Mask was another game my dad had and Skull Kid scared the babies out of me! I also hated the mechanics and I always got lost! I never wanted to play that game until I actually heard good things about it. So I decided I was strong because I was a 5th grader a few years ago so I played it. Guess what? I loved it! The creepyness, the adventure, the characters- what hasn't been said about this game? I'd love to see Skull Kid's magic and creepyness being translated to Smash Bros. I guess my dad knew what games to get! ( Even though Super Metroid, Goldeneye 007, Ocarina of Time among others would have made it a a meatier collection. )

-Ninten
Why: Ness was a character that puzzled me because I didn't who he was, he was hard to use, and I got confused over the name of his game. One day we were in a shabby toy shop to get something for my birthday and I saw EarthBound. I came imto the shop wanting two LEGO sets but I switched the Indiana Jones one for EarthBound and by this time I was older so I had heard the praise it was getting. Me and my friends laughed our butts out when we started playing. Although I never played the original Mother or EarthBound's sequel, Mother 3, I'd be interested to see the first game's protagonist adapted to a real fighting game. I know he can't naturally learn offensive PSI, that he has many moves unique to his game or he can just use PSI not yet used by Ness or Lucas so he can be a very unique character.

- Dark Samus
Why: Metroid Prime is one of the greatest FPSs of all time and although Ridley is much more recognizable, I still haven't lost faith that he will be DLC in the new game. It could even be argued that Dark Samus is more important because he is actually the final boss rather than the secondary bad guy that always pops up but I love Ridley too much to agree. Just make her a more a aggressive fast character instead of a floaty campy character. I just want more Metroid representation.

Issac
Why: Uniqueness is why. Who doesn't want to play as telekinetic sword fighter?

HALF VOTE
Pichu
Why: I want some closure for the smash roster but I don't like Pichu.

Andy
Why: A faster snake clone sounds good to me but I don't know anything about him.

Tom Nook
Why: I'd love to destroy the guy who forces me to play my 3ds daily but I'm not sure he deserves the spot.

DOWN VOTE
- Krystal
Why: If she were in, it would be a constant reminder of Star Fox's downfall. And NO, she would not be unique or fun at all!

- Pokemon Trainer/Red
Why: Do I really need to explain?



Sakurai hasn't been doing as good a job with clones. I wish someone could hack Dr Mario and Dark Pit into Mewtwo and Ridley. Lucas, Wolf, and Mewtwo and hopefully Ridley, Chorus Men and Dixie Kong need to be DLC so bad.

 

[NisforSmash]

- Pokemon Trainer/Red
Why: Do I really need to explain?

If you want your down vote to count then yes. Consider me a temporary Pokemon Trainer Supporter. Comments like this don't really show why a character i want to be in would ruin the game for you. It just says i don't like them because i don't like them.

 

[shinhed-echi]

If you want your down vote to count then yes. Consider me a temporary Pokemon Trainer Supporter. Comments like this don't really show why a character i want to be in would ruin the game for you. It just says i don't like them because i don't like them.

I second this.
I may not give him a full vote this time (because let's get serious here, as much as I LOVE the character, there is just so much disrespect for him going around, that he's not a safe choice to put a full vote in for him. Besides, I can always go back to vBrawl where he'll always be my main).

-

Question, how often are the votes counted? No pressure or anything, just curious. :D

 

[Shin F.]

Question, how often are the votes counted? No pressure or anything, just curious. :D

Just whenever one of us has time.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Just whenever one of us has time.

Ah gotcha.

It's been a while. Just decided to check how things have been around here.

Anyone in particular suddenly rising in popularity?

 

[Shin F.]

Ah gotcha.

It's been a while. Just decided to check how things have been around here.

Anyone in particular suddenly rising in popularity?

Off the top of my head, Takamaru and Prince Sable will be in the next update, along with some others.

 

[Bedoop]

New Topic~
Clones? Sure.
Who of? Snake. Why not.
Who's the clone? BOMBERMAN.
That's who I am officially voting for as a Clone.
So let's talk Bomberman.
HUDSON shall Live = Bomberman for Snake Clone!

 

[Shin F.]

New Topic~
Clones? Sure.
Who of? Snake. Why not.
Who's the clone? BOMBERMAN.
That's who I am officially voting for as a Clone.
So let's talk Bomberman.
HUDSON shall Live = Bomberman for Snake Clone!

We can't accept Bomberman votes. Despite being named in the Chronicle, this doesn't constitute an actual appearance.

 

[Bedoop]

We can't accept Bomberman votes. Despite being named in the Chronicle, this doesn't constitute an actual appearance.

Oh.
Well...
Uh...
Hrm...
Funky Kong?

 

[Shin F.]

Oh.
Well...
Uh...
Hrm...
Funky Kong?

Any character that appears in Brawl and isn't playable in Smash 4 is fair game.

 

[Bedoop]

Any character that appears in Brawl and isn't playable in Smash 4 is fair game.

Then I vote for Funky.
We need some MKWii Top-Tierity in Smash Bros. B)
(I have some ideas of what could be altered, but I'll stay silent until I'm needed)

 

[Das Koopa]

The information where Sakurai said what I posted was in an interview after Nintendo Direct. You get more information through one on one interviews than through Nintendo Direct anyways and since this was after that Nintendo Direct, I stuck with what he said there. I tried looking for it but I can't find it, it's been almost a year so I expected as much but since I can't find evidence to satisfy you I'll just stop arguing about it but I have better things to do than to throw words into Sakurai's mouth so take that for what it is.

That isn't what you said, but I will take this correction and roll with it. That isn't the problem I have with Sakurai. The problem is the character select screen, he made costume swaps into characters (Ex. Olimar-Louie (If that's his name) and Bowser Jr.-Koopalings) throwing in Dr. Mario and Dark Pit in the character select screen as if they are stand alone characters is what annoys me (this is now the third time I'm saying this). Secondly, how do you know this? This post and the last post makes you look like Nintendo hired you as a playtester or put you on the dev team because apparently you know what Sakurai has been planning. At this point it feels like you're making excuses for the sake of making them.

Don't know much about the intricacies of Brawl before launch but I do know that time was a big factor in the delay so I'll take your word for it.

Not going to dive into this one because it's baseless conjecture but I will keep it my mind when somebody cracks the game which will more than likely happen.

Makes sense, onto the next paragraph.

Sure, but this is Nintendo we're talking about, in terms of technological innovation they are severely lacking to companies like Sony and Microsoft (Hopefully, I don't have to remind you of online Brawl). Last console gen was the generation for updates but Nintendo didn't make use of that; so I would rather them be old-fashioned and attempt to create a fully complete game upon release (like almost every other game) instead of throwing an unfinished game on the shelves which they will work on after release (one of the reasons I didn't like games like Killer Instinct which is why it's partially dead (got stale and not enough content)).

It's known that Sakurai developed the six clones from very old interviews. If you want me to dig up the forum post on the subject I'll be happy too - that and Sakurai's comments on Lucina make it plain that they were last-minute additions and didn't take up much time.

Frankly, it could've been any costume-esque characters. He chose was he chose, and people would've complained regardless. If Dixie and Alph were in over Dark Pit and Doc, you would've had the same cries of "Why would you make them clones". When adding last minute clones, there's no

And I know Nintendo was bad at the internet game last gen, but they've proven they're more than competent enough to handle DLC add-ons and good online. Look at MK8. The whole "release the game complete" is fine, but this is a multiplayer, soon-to-be-massively popular game that gets tons of online support. As a player of games like TF2 and Minecraft, I'm fine with add-ons post release even if they're DLC.

I'm not buying a word of that. I know that's what he said but you can't just honestly sit back and believe sakurai couldn't find a single way to make ice climbers playable. It's right in front of our faces yet nobody wants to acknowledge it. Just separate them.

Literally no excuse why they weren't given this treatment. It happened to zelda and shiek. Were zelda fans butthurt at first? Sure but considering they're both still playable and have a plethora more dedicated moves both parties (zelda & shiek or sakurai & fans) benefited from the decision. On top of that, If he did actually split them up it would save him alot of work. Their moveset is fine as is, just polish it and refine certain moves to match the new engine and balance them to play on their own. Throw in a couple customs and IC's fans are happy. Plus there's no need to worry about an alt because you can just use Nana. No more worrying about desynchs, chain grabs or anything else they could have had a problem with.

Ice climbers weren't cut because of 3ds limitations. Ice climbers were cut because he didn't want them in the game and it's plain and simple as that. He used that as an excuse to introduce supposedly more "interesting" characters like oh idk dark pit and dr. mario. Gettin real tired of your shi*t Mashpotato Samurai.

/rant

PMDT pls deliver. I want a smash dream cast but the little glimmer of hope is starting to fade.

Maybe he didn't see it being worth it if they didn't have their duo gimmick? They were totally defined by that, even more so than Zelda and Sheik were by their transformations. I would've preferred Sopo rather than a strraight cut, but if he couldn't keep the duo gimmick with something as complex as Nana's AI, then maybe he just scrapped them to work on other characters as opposed to re-inventing them.

It's evident the two as a duo were cut because of 3DS limitations. Whether or not it would've been worth the time to separate them is a different story.

Now I will try and make a K. Rool moveset and maybe come up with my other votes