New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[F. Blue]

Bring on the king.

 

[Anti Guy]

Can I get some people to help me set up the levees?

 

[JCOnyx]

It's too late, I've already braced myself for impact. It's a good thing most of the cries are going to be for characters that are actually interesting and deserving of being in a smash game. They are still a heck of a lot of work though, poor guys might never make it in...

 

[Lasifer]

tbh if Ridley, K. Rool, and Isaac aren't in PM I'll be very disappointed.

 

[PlateProp]

tbh if Ridley, K. Rool, and Isaac aren't in PM I'll be very disappointed.

LOL

Silly person, Ridley/ K. rool wont be in p:m

Obviously the PMBR is gonna pull a Sakurai and give us Shadow Kirby along with giving Doc his own spot

 

[JCOnyx]

tbh if Ridley, K. Rool, and Isaac aren't in PM I'll be very disappointed.

I'd only hold out on 1 of the big 3 to make it in, if we even get one at all...

So far Isaac's chances are looking really good though.

 

[CaptainKirby]

Bring on the king.

Unfortunately, I feel this video is also relevant to King K. Rool's current predicament...again.

I really do hope they consider him, at least. I've been holding on far too long to the thought of a playable K. Rool, and I know it'd make many others happy to finally see him functional in a roster too, one way or another.

 

[Das Koopa]

Okay, so I've been thinking about K. Rool.

What is he was a Donkey Kong derivative?

 

[TRJV]

Okay, so I've been thinking about K. Rool.

What is he was a Donkey Kong derivative?

That's crazy!..

...So crazy it just, might, work.

Butt seriously, that's an interesting idea.

 

[Bedoop]

A clone I would like to see in?
Let's go for Bomberman. Y'know, as a Snake clone.

 

[GunBuster]

i don't know what to think anymore
SSB4's roster is so... odd. it's all over the scope of "****ing yes!" to "Why even?".
and i can't believe Dr. Mario is actually back as a better Mario... again.


oh well. I still want it, but i think I can wait for the Wiiu version.

meanwhile here comes the rise of the Ridley votes. not against that at all, mind you.

just gotta hope for Sami and Lyn for P:M.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

At least whoever Smash 4 cut is still in Project M.

And we have the coolest versions of Squirtle and Ivysaur ever.

AND we have more clone engine characters on the way.

Project M is already better than Smash 4 in a lot of different areas just from that standpoint.

 

[Shin F.]

At least whoever Smash 4 cut is still in Project M.

And we have the coolest versions of Squirtle and Ivysaur ever.

AND we have more clone engine characters on the way.

Project M is already better than Smash 4 in a lot of different areas just from that standpoint.

I agree. Smash 4 has exactly five Newcomers I would actually look forward to playing as (Mega Man, Villager, Robin, Shulk, Mii Fighters). Project M also has five characters I love that are absent in Smash 4 (Icies, Lucas, Squirtle, Roy, Mewtwo). In my eyes, the rosters are equal. The difference? Project M might have even more awesome characters coming. With Smash 4, we don't know how likely DLC is.

 

[JFM2796]

I've been waiting for the full roster to be confirmed before making my vote. Are they even still tallying these?

Anyway, I'm relying on the PMBR to finish "The Best Character Game Ever!" The ball's in their court now.

 

[Das Koopa]

To expand () on the idea, let me explain:

King K. Rool is very akin to the type of character DK is in that he's very bulky and strong. DK's arms seem larger (I think?) but K. Rool's are also incredibly large and more than capable of mimicking Donkey Kong's fist-oriented attacks.

The only one I don't see working is DK's down special, which maybe could be replaced with something viable from another moveset. I don't think the PMBR wants to make another Mewtwo where it's utter hell, so if K. Rool is in I'd like to be somewhat simplistic and realistic.

Not sure how values regarding weight and such are done but I'd guess Rool would be near the top if not above Bowser in terms of weight, and I'd guess if he mimicked DK's recovery it would be comparatively nerfed in exchange for a series of strong, early-percent killing moves. Maybe make his higher-air mobility bad but give him some useful short-hop aerials that work with a quick fast fall/falling speed.

I'm not entirely sure how the clone engine works, but is it possible to use DK as a base for the majority of K. Rool's moves but borrow attacks from other movesets? For example; I could see K. Rool having Wario's bite or something similar to it instead of DK's headbutt special. No idea how feasible that is but I'll come up with a comprehensive post on K. Rool if I can get an answer for this.

 

[JFM2796]

It would be cool to see K. Rool with his bunderbluss. I know the PMBR needs to reuse a move from another character when it comes to projectiles. Does any character in the game already have a canonballesque projectile?

 

[GunBuster]

At least whoever Smash 4 cut is still in Project M.

And we have the coolest versions of Squirtle and Ivysaur ever.

and Wolf. this is important.

scratchin' fools all day, erry' day

 

[Das Koopa]

It would be cool to see K. Rool with his bunderbluss. I know the PMBR needs to reuse a move from another character when it comes to projectiles. Does any character in the game already have a canonballesque projectile?

I don't know how animations with projectiles work, but I almost was thinking PK Fire with a cloud from his blunderbuss (like when he shoots clouds) as the after-affect when you get hit by a cannonball.

Imo a Blunderbuss is low priority though.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

tbh if Ridley, K. Rool, and Isaac aren't in PM I'll be very disappointed.

They're my top 3 wanted also

I wonder if character development has taken off any now that the roster is known?

It would be cool to see K. Rool with his blunderbluss.

Technically, wasn't that his cousin as the last boss in DKC2? Although, borrowing attacks from similar characters isn't new to the Earthbound cast for instance...

 

[Varia31]

I cast my votes in for:
1. Dixie
2. Ridley
3. K. Rool

I say Ridley because the thought of using him is just awesome, but I don't know how possible he is right now, or if he's truly open for consideration. He may take the most effort to create...

K. Rool, mainly because he's such an awesome and hilarious DKC villain that would be fun to use, and deserves a nice "series' villain" slot next to DK and Diddy.

If I had to choose only one between these three, though, I'd say I'd want Dixie the most. She's been one of me favorites since I was a kid playing DKC2, and she might be the easiest for the P:M Team to create since they can draw off of Diddy pretty easy, while having her own unique moves. Heck, even in DKC Tropical Freeze, she shares some moves with her boyfriend (if you're playing as her when you beat a boss, she uses the same attacks as Diddy when you go to beat out the boss to finish them off). Just sayin'. lol

Well, that's my two cents. So... Yeah. +1 for Dixie. :D

Technically, wasn't that his cousin as the last boss in DKC2? Although, borrowing attacks from similar characters isn't new to the Earthbound cast for instance...

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be K. Rool himself. He has a history of faking stuff and wearing different things. In DK64, he was a boxer! Nintendo's info on trophies and stuff in Brawl are mixed up on a few things, though I'm just assuming that's where you heard that. If not, sorry. But, it's just a misconception. It's K. Rool himself. Hope this helps.

 

[Anti Guy]

I cast my votes in for:
1. Dixie
2. Ridley
3. K. Rool

I say Ridley because the thought of using him is just awesome, but I don't know how possible he is right now, or if he's truly open for consideration. He may take the most effort to create...

K. Rool, mainly because he's such an awesome and hilarious DKC villain that would be fun to use, and deserves a nice "series' villain" slot next to DK and Diddy.

If I had to choose only one between these three, though, I'd say I'd want Dixie the most. She's been one of me favorites since I was a kid playing DKC2, and she might be the easiest for the P:M Team to create since they can draw off of Diddy pretty easy, while having her own unique moves. Heck, even in DKC Tropical Freeze, she shares some moves with her boyfriend (if you're playing as her when you beat a boss, she uses the same attacks as Diddy when you go to beat out the boss to finish them off). Just sayin'. lol

Well, that's my two cents. So... Yeah. +1 for Dixie. :D

It's been said multiple times before in this thread, but Dixie being easy to do is a misconception because her prehensile tail is actually very difficult to animate.

 

[Varia31]

It's been said multiple times before in this thread, but Dixie being easy to do is a misconception because her prehensile tail is actually very difficult to animate.

Oh, alright. A fan can dream, can't he?

EDIT
Well, I would suggest Dark Samus as well, but as easy as it would be to simply make a Samus with a few varied animations and properties, I really don't picture her as such since she fights almost NOTHING like Samus in the games. But, if that's what it takes to get her playable, then alright. As much as I'd love the ones I mentioned, especially Dixie, I'd be more than willing to cast a vote in for Dark Samus.

 

[GunBuster]

Oh, alright. A fan can dream, can't he?

EDIT
Well, I would suggest Dark Samus as well, but as easy as it would be to simply make a Samus with a few varied animations and properties, I really don't picture her as such since she fights almost NOTHING like Samus in the games. But, if that's what it takes to get her playable, then alright. As much as I'd love the ones I mentioned, especially Dixie, I'd be more than willing to cast a vote in for Dark Samus.

protip

just because it's difficult doesn't rule it out. cast that dixie vote. expand the KONGs.

 

[Varia31]

protip

just because it's difficult doesn't rule it out. cast that dixie vote. expand the KONGs.

Oh, I want Dixie in no matter what I'm told. Difficult or not, I'd love her to be in! That's my humble request to The P:M team. Whether or not they decide to use her is up to them. Sorry if I came across as being fickle there. My thought process was that of "throwing out more options in the event it doesn't work for another character that's been suggested".

Dixie's ponytail may be difficult to animate, but I think that, all things considered, she may one of the easier options to work with overall. To me, a true Dark Samus would be much tougher since she really isn't as similar to Samus' fighting style as some would think. Same with Ridley, and possibly K. Rool.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be K. Rool himself. He has a history of faking stuff and wearing different things. In DK64, he was a boxer! Nintendo's info on trophies and stuff in Brawl are mixed up on a few things, though I'm just assuming that's where you heard that. If not, sorry. But, it's just a misconception. It's K. Rool himself. Hope this helps.

Oh wow, that must've been what I was thinking of. I thought Baron K. from 3 was someone else too, so it's awesome that he really can cite those appearances for abilities. (I didn't realize he's been playable in other games either, which is pretty badass)

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Would people mind it if Ridley was included as a Charizard clone? Honestly, that's how I see him being implemented. At least as a semi clone of Charizard.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I'm actually kind of surprised this thread hasn't exploded already with new requests.

I would also like to take a moment to advertise my boy Takamaru for folks who are just coming into the clone engine fray to cast votes. If a pressure based eastern swordsman with funky projectiles and a cool unique mechanic sounds up your alley or you just like reading, check this out and be sure to keep him in mind when casting votes.

We really need that OP update soon.

EDIT: Oh what the hell, the web host that had all my reference images went bust and now all those links in my Takamaru moveset are dead.

Edit 2: Forgot to mention it but the things are fixed now.

 

[JFM2796]

Alright, here are my votes.

+1 VOTES

Spoiler

King K. Rool

Spoiler

Sakurai has made his disdain for the DK franchise clear in Smash 4, so what better way to make up for it than adding in it's main villain? The likelihood of them holding out on the "heavy hitters" until the Wii release is pretty unlikely anyway.
K. Rool feels like he was made for Smash. I mean, he's a psychotic, maniacal Pirate-King Crocodile who boxes in his spare time with an underside made of gold. The personality he could bring to the game simply cannot be matched by some of the human swordfighters that are other top choices. I think we could use more super-heavyweights as well, especially ones that have a possible niche of being a slow, big, and heavy projectile user.
​

Ridley

I think Ridley fans deserve this. I'm not sure if it would be possible to give him a Peach-esque float mechanic, but it would be pretty interesting if it happened. And correct me if I'm wrong, but they could use Ridley's boss model from the game, right?
​

Isaac

A character who has always been a pretty popular request, but appears as though he's reached the end of the line in future Smash Bros. I'm not familiar enough with the character to suggest moves, but I think his fans deserve it.
​

Sami

She's in a similar boat as Isaac, being from an IP that is unlikely to ever get representation in Smash. I say give her that chance.
​

Ganondorf/Black Shadow Swap

More villains are cool, F-Zero could use a rep, and I would like to see the PMBR's take on a Zelda inspired moveset for Ganondorf.​

+.5 VOTES

Spoiler

Paper Mario - With two Links it feels right that we should have two Marios. Plus he reprents a very unique and critically aclaimed series of Mario spin offs, and has some interesting moveset potential.

Toad - He's the only character from Mario Kart 64 that still isn't playable in Smash. That is all.

Pichu - It kind of bothers me a bit that there is still one Melee character missing from PM. I can't blame anyone for not wanting him back though, there are already plenty of Pokemon.

Skull Kid - I think he has some interesting moveset potential, and I'm a big Zelda fan too.

Spoiler

Pig Ganon - He would be so awesome. We need more heavyweights, and a trident would create some interesting hitboxes. I may be talking out of my butt here, but it may be possible to rework the Ganon from Dorf's Final Smash into a bipedal thing and then just like that you have the greatest Smash character of all time. Only reason I'm not giving him a full vote is that it would be pointless becuase there's basically no support for him.

-1 VOTES

Spoiler

Krystal - We have enough Star Fox characters already. Plus she has a noticeable hatebase, and would probably be too divisive to add.

Spoiler

Tetra/Toon Zelda - Do we really need four playable incarnations of Zelda? Plus she takes up two slots.

Waluigi - I feel like people only support him in Smash due to OCD. "We have Mario/Luigi, so we should have Wario/Waluigi."

Lyn - I feel like I'm missing something when I look at how high she's rated. One franchise shouldn't be taking up two slots on the clone engine, especially when that franchise has always been graciously repped in all Smash games. I'm not seeing what she could bring to the table to seperate her from the rest of the FIre Emblem krew, and I think that there are other characters who could do so much more.

Any character more character from Sonic/Metal Gear - Let's keep this a Nintendo game please.

 

[GunBuster]

Lyn - I feel like I'm missing something when I look at how high she's rated. One franchise shouldn't be taking up two slots on the clone engine, especially when that franchise has always been graciously repped in all Smash games. I'm not seeing what she could bring to the table to seperate her from the rest of the FIre Emblem krew, and I think that there are other characters who could do so much more.

As someone who wants Lyndis I feel obliged to NOT change your mind, but explain why it's likely she's so high in the polls.

FE is not one of Nintendo's smaller franchises. The sheer number of memorable characters and lifespan of the series holds a lot of sway in justifying a 4th rep for some people. Personally, pre smash 4, I fail to see how 2 characters and bare minimal trophies is "Graciously Repped."
Lyndis is for all intents and purposes Lord 101 for everyone introduced to the series with FE7 thanks to the forced tutorial.
there are some of us who wonder why the lords of the first western release game are only acknowledged by an assist trophy and stickers.
with Roy being Eliwood's son and the reveal of Hector Armor Ike, having Lyn basically rounds out the 3 lords from her own game.
despite still using a blade, it's been discussed to death that the moveset can be drastically different to the other FEC's.
a likeable character, even if she's overshadowed in the chapters past her own story.
she's a girl.

Spoiler

personally, I'd be surprised to see more than 3 new IP's in the remaining clone engine slots

 

[PlateProp]

Everyone's off in their holes of dissapointment in the smash 4 roster.

It's a good roster and all...I was just expecting something more than ROB and a couple of Clones to be the end, Kinda just killed my hype I guess.

 

[MLGF]

Honestly, I quite like Sm4sh's roster and its clone approach.

If PM had infinite clone engine character potential, I would RIDE that Doc/Yink hype train.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

For me, the disappointment was from the cuts and the fact that Lucina, Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario are all unexciting, bland clones with almost no differences in abilities when they could have been given the top notch treatment of, say, Melee Falco or Melee Ganondorf so that they still feel distinct from their base while still sharing 90% of their animations with them. But right now those 3 just feel like filler, and said filler isn't filling in the hole that the cuts left behind.

Something more personal is that Ganondorf was once again a clone. He uses his sword as a custom Warlock Punch, but that's the biggest change he got. This sucks because if he got a new moveset, then I wouldn't care about a Black Shadow / Ganondorf scenario in Project M because I'd then have what I wanted already in a different game, and current Ganondorf mains wouldn't be forced to switch characters for the same moveset in Project M. But now that's an impossibility, and with the year-long realization that I'm never gonna get a true-to-source material Ganondorf in either a new Smash game (as a clone for 3 games in a row now, it's silly thinking that's ever gonna change in the future) or this mod (his mains would have to switch in the middle of Project M's lifespan), I feel let down. Canondorf will never happen.

Like I said earlier, Project M has the characters that Smash 4 cut, I can regrettably deal with no Canondorf ever, and Project M has more characters coming in the future with the clone engine, so this mod will always stay awesome. Lucas, Ice Climbers, Wolf, and Snake aren't going anywhere in Project M, and unlike Melee I don't have to settle for the old sucky versions of Roy and Mewtwo like we once had to long ago. Squirtle and Ivysaur were also given the grand treatment here and made into awesome characters for Gen 1 fans. These characters are a certainty here, and no amount of cuts in the new games will change that.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

Pretty much everything EdgeTheLucas said but I have a more personal grudge against Sakurai. Shortly after the summer release date reveal (which was then extended to the release date we know now) Sakurai said he would cut clone characters from the game (most notably from the Brawl roster) and the roster size would be about the same as Brawl's. He at least kept one of his promises, the roster size, even if you exclude the clones he added, the character select screen for Sm4sh is about the same; if not higher than Brawl's roster.

Another nitpick is the character select screen. Some characters have costume swaps that change their character (For ex. Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings and Olimar and Louie (I think that's his name)) so throwing characters like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit in character slots as if they are completely new characters is extremely pretentious (Like Dark Pit has a costume, that looks exactly like regular Pit and I literally couldn't tell the difference until I saw Dark Pit use his b moves which have dark effect compared to Pit) but I guess Sakurai's logic is if they have one move changed and a different final smash then they are new characters.

I know Sakurai is notorious for not finishing Smash games on time so I'm going to hope that he knew he wasn't going to finish in time for the Japanese release and fearing the backlash he would get for pushing back the release (again), he put the clones in at the last minute (not suggesting he took literally a minute to do that).

At this point I can't trust Sakurai anymore, I started to be wary of him ever since the Toon Link reveal but I didn't think it would get this out of hand (Why remove creative characters like Wolf and Ice Climbers to add more clones is beyond me). Don't get me wrong this is the best roster currently compared to other Smash games, I just wished it was handled better and if Sakurai didn't open his big mouth he wouldn't have set my expectations so damn high in the first place.

Rant aside, I will still be buying the game since Namco. Bandai worked closely on the project so I can hope more than 50% of the cast will be balanced and playable unlike other Smash games and even if that's not the case the 3ds/2ds supports updates so they can get it right in the future and seeing as Nintendo is losing sales money due to console wars they're going to milk their cash cows (Mario, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda, Smash, etc.) for all its worth so I expect to see DLC in the future...but please no more clones -_-.

 

[CBO0tz]

What's going to happen if the PMDT decides they want to add a new character to P:M and they end up picking a character Sakurai adds as DLC for Sm4sh?

 

[Shin F.]

What's going to happen if the PMDT decides they want to add a new character to P:M and they end up picking a character Sakurai adds as DLC for Sm4sh?

I doubt they'd remove a character just because they're DLC later on. Honestly, that's not something we can predict or account for, so I'd say they probably just won't concern themselves with it.

Hopefully.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

What's going to happen if the PMDT decides they want to add a new character to P:M and they end up picking a character Sakurai adds as DLC for Sm4sh?

Nothing.

The PMDT said that if they release a character fully made that Smash 4 later adds without their foresight, regardless of final roster or a DLC addition, they won't pull the character. For example, Mewtwo is the most highly requested character worldwide, and while the PMDT already added him here, if Smash 4 eventually releases Mewtwo as DLC to meet those demands, they won't scrap Project M or their own Mewtwo.

 

[Das Koopa]

Pretty much everything EdgeTheLucas said but I have a more personal grudge against Sakurai. Shortly after the summer release date reveal (which was then extended to the release date we know now) Sakurai said he would cut clone characters from the game (most notably from the Brawl roster) and the roster size would be about the same as Brawl's. He at least kept one of his promises, the roster size, even if you exclude the clones he added, the character select screen for Sm4sh is about the same; if not higher than Brawl's roster.

Another nitpick is the character select screen. Some characters have costume swaps that change their character (For ex. Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings and Olimar and Louie (I think that's his name)) so throwing characters like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit in character slots as if they are completely new characters is extremely pretentious (Like Dark Pit has a costume, that looks exactly like regular Pit and I literally couldn't tell the difference until I saw Dark Pit use his b moves which have dark effect compared to Pit) but I guess Sakurai's logic is if they have one move changed and a different final smash then they are new characters.

I know Sakurai is notorious for not finishing Smash games on time so I'm going to hope that he knew he wasn't going to finish in time for the Japanese release and fearing the backlash he would get for pushing back the release (again), he put the clones in at the last minute (not suggesting he took literally a minute to do that).

At this point I can't trust Sakurai anymore, I started to be wary of him ever since the Toon Link reveal but I didn't think it would get this out of hand (Why remove creative characters like Wolf and Ice Climbers to add more clones is beyond me). Don't get me wrong this is the best roster currently compared to other Smash games, I just wished it was handled better and if Sakurai didn't open his big mouth he wouldn't have set my expectations so damn high in the first place.

Rant aside, I will still be buying the game since Namco. Bandai worked closely on the project so I can hope more than 50% of the cast will be balanced and playable unlike other Smash games and even if that's not the case the 3ds/2ds supports updates so they can get it right in the future and seeing as Nintendo is losing sales money due to console wars they're going to milk their cash cows (Mario, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda, Smash, etc.) for all its worth so I expect to see DLC in the future...but please no more clones -_-.

Sakurai never said they'd cut clones, lol. I don't know where people get this, and the roster size comment was in 2012. Also, no, there was never decision to remove Wolf and Ice Climbers for "clones". That's ludicrous and ignores that it takes the dev team far less time to make clones than it does to make fully fledged characters. They added six clones to Melee in the time Sakuai might've been able to finish one newcomer.

Frankly, Wolf is the only character cut that doesn't have a good explanation, but it should be remembered that he was probably the last character added to Brawl. Possibly even post-Sonic.

 

[Shin F.]

Frankly, Wolf is the only character cut that doesn't have a good explanation.

 

[Das Koopa]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai wanted to purge most of the Mother 3 content. This seems evident by how little references there are to it, and I think that has to do with the backlash it'd get from Western audiences for including extensive Mother 3 content but still not releasing Mother 3.

Not really the best reasoning, but it's certainly an explanation. At least with the Mother 1 content, nobody really cares about an overseas release and there was never a huge backlash for it.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Not really the best reasoning, but it's certainly an explanation.

It's not an explanation if it doesn't say why Sakurai decided Mother 3 content was bad for the next Smash.

Honestly, his cut is the most confusing to me. He'd have been simple to reimplement, at least as much as Toon Link, another clone with little similarity to his base.