New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[alex6309]

"What is this bull****? This isn't an accurate depiction of Black Shadow."
"Let's make a new Black Shadow and give the old moveset to Toon Ganondorf."

What the hell? This isn't Toon Ganondorf.
Let's just give Toon Ganondorf his own moveset and give his old moveset to Dr. Black Shadow.

 

[Sour Supreme]

TOON DR. BLACK SHADOWDORF
CONFIRMED AS PIKACHU CLONE.

 

[Shin F.]

TOON DR. BLACK RIDLEYSAAC SHADOWDORF
CONFIRMED AS PIKACHU CLONE.

Fixed

 

[Sour Supreme]

Fixed

Read as "Ridley Sack".

Pictured some **** that I'd rather not talk about.

 

[alex6309]

Read as "Ridley Sack".

Pictured some **** that I'd rather not talk about.

Sounds like it'd have a bad match up against Zero Suit Samus.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

I come back hoping for a sold conclusion but in the end we're back where we started...RIP Blackendorf fans.

 

[Ginge]

To be fair, the votes in this thread are hardly representative of the PM board as a whole. If you leave the safety and comfort of this thread or the Alt Costume thread, people on the character boards or social threads look down on us as filthy degenerates.

I remember foolishly going to the Ganondorf social thread and asking the people there what they thought of the idea of Black Shadow getting their moveset and a more true-to-canon Ganon. I got eaten alive just for posing the question, not stating an opinion on the topic at all. Essentially "How dare you Clone Engine posters who feel so entitled to changing the character that I'm playing as."

Which is funny, because I actually do use PM Ganon quite regularly. And wouldn't mind switching to Black Shadow to keep the moveset I like if it made actual Zelda fans happier. But the Smash community is so resistant to change at times.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

But the Smash community is so resistant to change at times.

Exactly this. People will always be for or against change, but humans have the capacity to adjust to such changes. Without change, we wouldn't have games like Brawl and soon to be Sm4sh which are vastly different than Melee.

When people used the word "alienate" so loosely it irked me because Blackendorf fans want to change something that is the norm to Smashers. They aren't trying to isolate current Ganondorf mains; they are trying to save a misrepresented character because if no change happens, Ganon will always be misrepresented. Since people are resistant to change, I'm not surprised they treat it as alienation.

Alfonzo made a good point comparing the switch of characters to replacing a dog you love with the same breed and that makes sense, but that only defines one side of the spectrum; the side that cannot adjust to a texture, which I feel is a slim number. Both Ganondorf and Black Shadow are somewhat similar in terms of physique and size so hitboxes shouldn't be an issue. The only issue is preference which can or cannot be changed based on the person.

I really don't see a problem with the change but I find it hard to push for it since Smashers will always stick with the norm. If sociology has taught me anything it's that the majority of society will stick to the status quo, for the fear of change and if the change doesn't affect them (or affects them wrongly). This is no different.

 

[QuickRat]

What is a "real smasher"? I'm kind of lost...

 

[ZeruSlayer]

What is a "real smasher"? I'm kind of lost...

I'm going to assume that a real smasher are those who are dedicated to Smash (into the competitive scene, active member of Smashboards, etc.) as opposed to those who only play it for the fun, casual aspect. I wouldn't use this term because it's a little pretentious

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I'm going to assume that a real smasher are those who are dedicated to Smash (into the competitive scene, active member of Smashboards, etc.) as opposed to those who only play it for the fun, casual aspect. I wouldn't use this term because it's a little pretentious

I dunno if I ever used the term in my arguments, but that's not how I define a Smasher. I define it as someone who plays the game regularly and has a passion for it, competitive or not. Not just someone who plays the new game for X amount of time, or plays like twice a month with their friends for an hour or two.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

I dunno if I ever used the term in my arguments, but that's not how I define a Smasher. I define it as someone who plays the game regularly and has a passion for it, competitive or not. Not just someone who plays the new game for X amount of time, or plays like twice a month with their friends for an hour or two.

This is similar to what I would define a Smasher but Ginge was asking what a "real smasher" was. Real Smasher ≠ Smasher. Whenever someone uses the term real smasher, they are alienating a certain group of smashers (Think of it as this, if there are real smashers then the other group would be considered as fake smashers).

 

[Malion]

has anyone considered having some other iteration of Ganondorf as being more Zelda true?

Like I don't know... Ganon?

I'm not talking Ganondorf's final smash where he's a quadrupedal hog I mean his pig form from OoT where he wields two swords.

Or maybe even his other games where he is a pig man with a trident. That was such a common appearances for Ganon which was only recently replaced with the man...ondorf.

Toon Ganon could work too I guess. He's certainly got a different build and playstyle. With his double swords.

Or maybe they can throw Phantom Ganon in there. Who in WW played very similarly to OoT Ganondorf. A sword user with magic attacks.

Now phantom ganon probably isn't in the game I realise but all the other Ganons are essentially the same ganon as TP Ganondorf... so they probably would be ok right?

 

[Ginge]

That's where things get iffy. Though they're treated like the same person, aren't they technically like Link where it's a reincarnation of them at different points in time / technically all different people?

Also, I'm not sure the PM community would get behind a character using up one of the 5 clone slots remaining that is already on the roster, no matter how different the moveset actually is.

 

[Malion]

No Ganon is literally the same dude every game. He just looks different I assume due to the style of the game in question?
We haven't had any source material state that they are different people and he retains memories from when he last appeared in more circumstances.

Apparently Miyamoto said that while Zelda and Link are reincarnations that there is only one Ganon... they may have changed their stance on that more recently but I see no evidence of that.

And I understand that the PM Community might not want some other Ganon but I feel it's a pretty good compromise without changing the appearance of any existing characters... and has as good a chance as any other character with similar qualifications.

 

[NisforSmash]

Wait...So if ganon is the only constant in the zelda series...What if he's the hero?

 

[Malion]

Wait...So if ganon is the only constant in the zelda series...What if he's the hero?

A hero who never wins? How depressing.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Zelda's canon is like the Oprah Network.

Everyone is trying to figure out what's going on, but in the end it's too complicated and the women end up in tears.

 

[arcticfox8]

I fully support Ganon
1/2 vote Ganon

 

[Shin F.]

Mario's canon is like the Oprah Network.

Everyone is trying to figure out what's going on, but in the end it's too complicated and the women end up in tears.

Fixed

Zelda's canon actually makes sense if you know it.

And Ganon has been brought up, but hardly anyone supported him. Which is too bad, since that's a great solution.

Edit: And yeah, Ganondorf is always the same person.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Fixed

Zelda's canon actually makes sense if you know it.

And Ganon has been brought up, but hardly anyone supported him. Which is too bad, since that's a great solution.

 

[Chzrm3]

Ganon with a trident would be pretty sick, actually. Mostly cause I'd just love a long-range playstyle like that!

 

[Solbliminal]

And Ganon has been brought up, but hardly anyone supported him. Which is too bad, since that's a great solution.

I think it is mostly because of the idea of Zelda rep saturation and that the concept of modifying the existing Ganondorf prevents it from eating a slot. With the Black Shadow deal, we pretty much are getting a new character. Though I personally could care less about Black Shadow or Ganondorf. I'd much rather just see newer series characters.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Ganon with a trident would be pretty sick, actually. Mostly cause I'd just love a long-range playstyle like that!

God dude. Anytime I read something of yours there's just this emotionally soothing vibe of wisdom that tucks me into bed and tells me there aren't any Sakurai's hiding in my closet.

 

[Shin F.]

I think it is mostly because of the idea of Zelda rep saturation and that the concept of modifying the existing Ganondorf prevents it from eating a slot. With the Black Shadow deal, we pretty much are getting a new character. Though I personally could care less about Black Shadow or Ganondorf. I'd much rather just see newer series characters.

But then, there's the argument that we're still getting a new moveset either way, and that the moveset would still be a Ganondorf moveset. The only difference is that the original Ganondorf would stay the same for the sake of his mains.

God dude. Anytime I read something of yours there's just this emotionally soothing vibe of wisdom that tucks me into bed and tells me there aren't any Sakurai's hiding in my closet.

 

[JCOnyx]

It's been a long time since I've fully updated my votes. Thought I'd do that real quick. Additions to my votes are marked with asterisks.

Spoiler: Full Votes

Full Votes
Isaac
Masked Man/Claus
Dixie Kong
Sami
Bowser Jr.

Spoiler: Half Votes

Half Votes
Ashley
*** Black Knight ***
Dark Samus
Dracula
*** Funky Kong (Still expect him to become a cosplay costume for DK though) ***
*** Ganon ***
Ganondorf//Black Shadow
Hector
Jimmy T.
Kamek
King K Rool
King of Hyrule
Knuckles
Krystal
Lip
Liquid Snake
Lyn
Medli
Micaiah
*** Midna ***
Paper Mario
Ray MK III
Ridley
Saki
Skull Kid
Tails
*** Takamaru ***
Tetra
Toon Zelda
Toon Gannondorf
*** Wolf Link & Midna ***

Spoiler: Negative Votes

Negative Votes
Sukapon: I'm not a big fan of extremely obscure characters. Mr. Game & Watch is already obscure enough as it is, and the effort it would take to create this character who's reception would most likely be extremely mixed (even with all the praise he's been getting within this thread), I'm almost positive the PMBR would not be willing to take the risk. His model would also be pretty boring, with his only unique aspect being his floating limbs, and he doesn't have the benefit of being a well known or iconic character to overcome this design flaw. I delved in a bit into his previous movements within the smash community, mostly those revolving around his inclusion within Brawl and his rejection from Melee, and I could not find anything to truly convince me otherwise. Sorry for all of the Sakupon supporters out there, but I'm just not feeling him.
Tabuu, Master Hand, and Primid: There is indeed quite a difference between Nintendo representation and Smash representation. I'm sorry to say that I dread the thought of a Smash character making it into the roster of Nintendo All Stars. Tabuu is bland, Primid is bland, and Master Hand is beyond bland. No matter what the PMBR could do for these characters and their movesets, I could never get behind them. Clone Engine Slots should be reserved for characters rich in Nintendo history or have no representation within Smash to begin with. Nearly every character on our OP meets these requirements in some way (yes, even the 3rd Party Characters), but I just can't back generic, characterless creations made solely for you to beat the crap out of as playable characters.

 

[Solbliminal]

But then, there's the argument that we're still getting a new moveset either way, and that the moveset would still be a Ganondorf moveset. The only difference is that the original Ganondorf would stay the same for the sake of his mains.

Not exactly. He would only be receiving necessary tweaks for the sake of his moveset too. Ganondorf isn't exactly upper tier. I could see Ganondorf needing some tweaks to benefit those who main him. Though I can see your point too.

 

[alex6309]

What if we just take some of Ganondorf's crappiest moves and just throw them all away and replace them with moves better referencing his incarnation in games.

It'll be magical.

 

[Solbliminal]

What if we just take some of Ganondorf's crappiest moves and just throw them all away and replace them with moves better referencing his incarnation in games.

It'll be magical.

This idea isn't too far from what I just said. I mean look what replacing one move in DK's repertoire did for him. Now he can combo off ledges and crazy stuff. It isn't too much to say they could replace a move or two for Ganondorf without making Ganondorf mains feel butthurt.

 

[alex6309]

This idea isn't too far from what I just said. I mean look what replacing one move in DK's repertoire did for him. Now he can combo off ledges and crazy stuff. It isn't too much to say they could replace a move or two for Ganondorf without making Ganondorf mains feel butthurt.

Isn't his Warlock punch virtually worthless? It could be replaced for practically anything. Maybe even a magic projectile, a long range attack, or something good for combos.

 

[arcticfox8]

Warlock Punch is the hypest thing tho

 

[Solbliminal]

Isn't his Warlock punch virtually worthless? It could be replaced for practically anything. Maybe even a magic projectile, a long range attack, or something good for combos.

 

[alex6309]

I have no response to this.

Maybe everyone should have a Warlock punch now.

 

[PlateProp]

What if they did do the black shadow/ganondorf swap...

But BS got Ganon alts so the original Ganondorf mains cant complain, and we still get new a New ganon moveset.

 

[McSlur]

I don't think they're doing anything with Warlock Punch, mostly because they showed it in the Vs All Stars Mode video reveal.
Ofcourse,allthingsaresubjectochange

 

[Spleenhunter]

So I've been working on some ideas for Lyn recolors over the last few days. Her Awakening art is an obvious good choice for an alternate, but there are many recolors that would let a bunch of characters from FE be represented. This is my first time using a photoshop-like program, so some have weird edges and misplaced pixels. I especially had trouble with white, but you can still see what it would look like. I put the reference characters immediately afterwards in the album in case you don't recognize the colors.
http://imgur.com/a/EdM6E#0

Spoiler: Characters Used

First off is the standard blue, red and green corresponding to the 3 unit colors in FE and the colors for Smash teams. I also added a black color, and you could change the hair on the black one to reflect a specific character (maybe Joshua?)

Rath: I wanted to add another character from Sacae, and brown recolors are relatively uncommon in Smash.

Karel is not extremely different from Lyn, but he is the quintessential Swordmaster in both FE6 and FE7, so he's pretty important.

Farina can represent the purple color well, but I think Lyn would look just as good with the default hair.

Severa: Even though there are a lot of great characters in Awakening, they all have a different art style and most of them aren't as recognizable when used as recolors (especially since children inherit their father's hair). Severa is one of my favorite characters, but Cordelia would also work.

Mia is probably the most popular Myrmidon in the Radiant series, and she has pretty unique colors.

Louise is good for the obligatory pink costume (even suited Samus got one). Having blond hair is a nice touch for hair variety.

Florina is one of Lyn's closest friends, so its natural that she would be associated with Lyn. Best option for the white recolor in my opinion.

Eirika, being one of the Lords from SS, is a good option to represent that game. I made the primary color gold in order to distinguish it from the red costume, but red would work for the base color. There are other good options from SS but I figured Lyn's game should be the one to get the majority of recolors.

Micaiah is the second most popular female Lord, and her colors are vibrant and memorable. I decided to add the blue trim to Lyn's clothes because I thought that Micaiah's scarf needed a more prominent role.

Spoiler: Honorable Mentions

These are characters that could potentially work, but that I felt were not as good as the ones that I actually made. Here's a link to their artwork:
http://imgur.com/a/vaktO#4

Guy- Both he and Lyn are from Sacae, but ironically they are too similar for Guy to be a good recolor. Really the only thing unique he can offer is a headband.

Karla- Her colors would work well, but Serra and Florina are more recognizable white color reps. (And I had enough trouble with Florina's)

Serra: She is part of Lyn's party, and her colors would work well on Lyn, but I think Florina is a slightly better choice.

Matthew: He could definitely work, but his most interesting color is his cape, which would have to be worked into Lyn's costume. Maybe green with red trim would work?

Merlinus: I like Farina's purple better, but the Teal and purple colors could look cool on Lyn. He is actually in both FE6 and FE7, so this would be a good way for him to get represented.

There are also a multitude of characters from SS like Marissa, Tana, and Vanessa that could work.

This was really fun to do, so if there are any characters you want me to do or suggestions on improving what I have, it would be appreciated.

 

[alex6309]

So I've been working on some ideas for Lyn recolors over the last few days. Her Awakening art is an obvious good choice for an alternate, but there are many recolors that would let a bunch of characters from FE be represented. This is my first time using a photoshop-like program, so some have weird edges and misplaced pixels. I especially had trouble with white, but you can still see what it would look like. I put the reference characters immediately afterwards in the album in case you don't recognize the colors.
http://imgur.com/a/EdM6E#0

Spoiler: Characters Used

First off is the standard blue, red and green corresponding to the 3 unit colors in FE and the colors for Smash teams. I also added a black color, and you could change the hair on the black one to reflect a specific character (maybe Joshua?)

Rath: I wanted to add another character from Sacae, and brown recolors are relatively uncommon in Smash.

Karel is not extremely different from Lyn, but he is the quintessential Swordmaster in both FE6 and FE7, so he's pretty important.

Farina can represent the purple color well, but I think Lyn would look just as good with the default hair.

Severa: Even though there are a lot of great characters in Awakening, they all have a different art style and most of them aren't as recognizable when used as recolors (especially since children inherit their father's hair). Severa is one of my favorite characters, but Cordelia would also work.

Mia is probably the most popular Myrmidon in the Radiant series, and she has pretty unique colors.

Louise is good for the obligatory pink costume (even suited Samus got one). Having blond hair is a nice touch for hair variety.

Florina is one of Lyn's closest friends, so its natural that she would be associated with Lyn. Best option for the white recolor in my opinion.

Eirika, being one of the Lords from SS, is a good option to represent that game. I made the primary color gold in order to distinguish it from the red costume, but red would work for the base color. There are other good options from SS but I figured Lyn's game should be the one to get the majority of recolors.

Micaiah is the second most popular female Lord, and her colors are vibrant and memorable. I decided to add the blue trim to Lyn's clothes because I thought that Micaiah's scarf needed a more prominent role.

Spoiler: Honorable Mentions

These are characters that could potentially work, but that I felt were not as good as the ones that I actually made. Here's a link to their artwork:
http://imgur.com/a/vaktO#4

Guy- Both he and Lyn are from Sacae, but ironically they are too similar for Guy to be a good recolor. Really the only thing unique he can offer is a headband.

Karla- Her colors would work well, but Serra and Florina are more recognizable white color reps. (And I had enough trouble with Florina's)

Serra: She is part of Lyn's party, and her colors would work well on Lyn, but I think Florina is a slightly better choice.

Matthew: He could definitely work, but his most interesting color is his cape, which would have to be worked into Lyn's costume. Maybe green with red trim would work?

Merlinus: I like Farina's purple better, but the Teal and purple colors could look cool on Lyn. He is actually in both FE6 and FE7, so this would be a good way for him to get represented.

There are also a multitude of characters from SS like Marissa, Tana, and Vanessa that could work.

This was really fun to do, so if there are any characters you want me to do or suggestions on improving what I have, it would be appreciated.

I found this image for Lyn, forgive since I haven't played her game in forever so I don't remember much of it but is there a larger sprite or piece of artwork of this outfit for her?

If there is, this could be a good alt.

 

[Spleenhunter]

I found this image for Lyn, forgive since I haven't played her game in forever so I don't remember much of it but is there a larger sprite or piece of artwork of this outfit for her?

If there is, this could be a good alt.

If I remember it right, that is just a travelling cloak that the party wears when they're travelling through Bern, so that they can disguise the fact that they are nobles. I think the three Lords wear it over their armor. I don't recall there being any artwork associated with it. Personally I would rather have a brown recolor, especially since the cloak might be awkward to fight in.

 

[TRJV]

Off topic sorry, but I need some opinions from the good patrons of the clone engine thread.

Earthbound or DKC 3D? I haven't played either series, (besides some DKC at my grandma's when I was little)and now I can get one of them free at club Nintendo. which one would you guys choose?

I use blue text because it's easier to find my posts

That's fine but could you use a different shade? My eyes ache after reading some of you longer posts.

 

[Anti Guy]

Off topic sorry, but I need some opinions from the good patrons of the clone engine thread.

Earthbound or DKC 3D? I haven't played either series, (besides some DKC at my grandma's when I was little)and now I can get one of them free at club Nintendo. which one would you guys choose?

That's fine but could you use a different shade? My eyes ache after reding some of you longer posts.

Depends on what you like better, RPGs or platformers.