New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Shin F.]

A character who's decent enough to be viable, but just bad enough for it to be embarrassing if you lose to them. NOBODY else in the game really fills that niche.

SoPo would like a word with you

If Pichu doesn't make it, then that means that somebody's main that will never, ever be in another smash game again.

It's funny, that's almost the same argument I used when someone was saying there shouldn't be any more sword characters. I said that to keep out new sword users just because some people don't want more is to prevent people who love games like Golden Sun from ever being able to use their favorite characters.

On top of that, the game could use a sillier, more disrespectful character that people can cheese with since the rest of the characters are already SO good.

I'd actually want Pichu to be a legit character. Making him intentionally bad just to fill a niche seems almost disrespectful of the character. That's just me, though.

 

[Darkmask]

So, because I don't think giving Pichu Flail or Discharge is a revolutionary, game-changing idea, I don't have much imagination?

k

Pichu should not exist purely because it has potential or because it was a thing in Melee. Every character has potential. Pichu is no different from Dark Samus, Blood Falcon, Slippy, or Ninten, besides the fact that it has already appeared in a Smash game. My opinion is that Pokemon has enough to work with, and that Pichu's potential "Damage = Offense" gimmick isn't worth leaving out other characters with similar or greater potential who haven't already been portrayed in an official Smash or ever will be.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I wonder if people would take Ganondorf getting a new moveset better if the old Ganondorf was reskinned as Blood Falcon instead of Black Shadow since they really hate the latter

Actually, he's not a bad idea. He might have trouble since he's already a recolor for Captain Falcon though.

As for a new F-Zero rep I'd rather see Goroh or Jody, however. The former has icon status, being featured front and center on most of F-Zero games' covers, and the latter is notable for being a well-known "beginner" character in the series starting with F-Zero X. She's also pretty hot.

 

[Anti Guy]

Ooh, he looks like he'd be interesting. Let me come up with a moveset:

B - Falcon Punch: Blood Falcon charges up for a while for a devastating punch!
Up B - Falcon Dive: Blood Falcon leaps up and grabs any character away, then launches him away
Side B - Raptor Boost: Blood Falcon flies forward for an uppercut. In midair, it's a lowercut.
Down B - Falcon Kick: A forward flaming kick. Angled downwards in midair.

FAir - A flying knee that does a lot of damage if you hit the right sweet spot

Oh, I'm running out of time. Feel free to finish this up for me, but I think I'm on to a very unique and interesting moveset.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

I'd actually want Pichu to be a legit character. Making him intentionally bad just to fill a niche seems almost disrespectful of the character. That's just me, though.

Either way, there's a lot of cool stuff they could do with him. Discharge has been brought up earlier, and they could revamp his recovery by giving his Agility Up-B three zips instead of too to compensate for his lighter weight.
Another thing that would be useful is if he had a move that paralyzed foes (stop me if that sounds OP)
I think a lot of people don't give Pichu credit in that regard. You'd be surprised at how many people are clamoring for the little guy on Reddit and Facebook.

What makes Pichu an even better choice in my view is that it is probably the safest and easiest character to make via Clone Engine.
There should totally be an option to play as Popo by himself :secret:

I would say Goroh is by far the best choice for an F-Zero newcomer, seeing as he's the most iconic character outside of Falcon himself.
And he was the most broken character in the SNES original F-Zero

 

[Darkmask]

I wonder if people would take Ganondorf getting a new moveset better if the old Ganondorf was reskinned as Blood Falcon instead of Black Shadow since they really hate the latter

Actually, he's not a bad idea. He might have trouble since he's already a recolor for Captain Falcon though.

As for a new F-Zero rep I'd rather see Goroh or Jody, however. The former has icon status, being featured front and center on most of F-Zero games' covers, and the latter is notable for being a well-known "beginner" character in the series starting with F-Zero X. She's also pretty hot.

A Black Shadow reskin of current Ganondorf to make soom for a weapon wielding Ganondorf as a new character? I have to admit that is an interesting idea, you'd retain Ganondorf for people who like playing him currently, and a C. Falcon clones makes more sense as another F-Zero character, and you'd appease Ganondorf haters who think he needs a sword, by making him a completely new character from scratch, although if they are going to go that far, forget the longsword and go for the giant greatsword.

Plus new F-Zero rep, who only has one rep so far, a new villain which I like cause I love me some evil characters, plus I think Black Shadow and Ganondorf look like they could easily have similar body builds, you'd just wanna make a few tweaks to Fisticuffs Ganondorf's attacks, cause if you'd gonna have those big Black Shadow horns, you gotta have at least one or two attacks where he gores his enemies with them!

 

[Cool Blue]

There should totally be an option to play as Popo by himself :secret:

I'm pretty sure if you hold R on the character select screen, you can play as SoPo.

 

[Darkmask]

For people who liked the idea of Blood Falcon, or may want Dark Samus, here's a question ... couldn't they just be added as alt costumes for C. Falcon and Samus? Hear me out, I know they are technically different characters, but they are evils clones of their hero counterparts, and Smash itself allowed Dark Link, who is a magically evil version of Link and a completely different character, to be included as "Link". Why couldn't Blood Falcon, who is an evil clone of C. Falcon, or Dark Samus, who is a Phazon clone of Samus, use the same pre-established rules and just be alt costumes?

At least then people who wanted them as characters but know their chances of inclusion are low will still get to play them in spirit.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

For people who liked the idea of Blood Falcon, or may want Dark Samus, here's a question ... couldn't they just be added as alt costumes for C. Falcon and Samus? Hear me out, I know they are technically different characters, but they are evils clones of their hero counterparts, and Smash itself allowed Dark Link, who is a magically evil version of Link and a completely different character, to be included as "Link". Why couldn't Blood Falcon, who is an evil clone of C. Falcon, or Dark Samus, who is a Phazon clone of Samus, use the same pre-established rules and just be alt costumes?

At least then people who wanted them as characters but know their chances of inclusion are low will still get to play them in spirit.

Wasn't there a Blood Falcon costume in Melee?

 

[Waluigi_Time]

Feel a little late to the party having just learned about Project M today, but I figured it couldn't hurt to put my thoughts up anyways so... here goes.

I want to see Waluigi especially. I feel he would make a great addition to the roster, complimenting Wario. I also feel as though this character is looked over way to o often. This would be a great way to give him some spotlight. Also, it would be easier to impliment him than most other characters because he already has his own model in the game. Plus you could easily use the already existing psa to use as inspiration towards his character.

I would also like to see Shadow possibly be added to the game. I know his name hasn't been tossed around as much, but I think he would be a cool character to have. As with above, his model is already in the game, which somewhat minimizes the amount of work it would take to put him in. He could also be a clone which would make implementing him a snap.

Finally, I think Paper Mario would be a awesome change of pace. He is a very cool concept for a character and wouldn't require a full fledged character model. It would also be very refreshing to have a different kind of character like him.

(Please excuse all mistakes, on a sucky tablet ;( )

 

[Cool Blue]

For people who liked the idea of Blood Falcon, or may want Dark Samus, here's a question ... couldn't they just be added as alt costumes for C. Falcon and Samus? Hear me out, I know they are technically different characters, but they are evils clones of their hero counterparts, and Smash itself allowed Dark Link, who is a magically evil version of Link and a completely different character, to be included as "Link". Why couldn't Blood Falcon, who is an evil clone of C. Falcon, or Dark Samus, who is a Phazon clone of Samus, use the same pre-established rules and just be alt costumes?

At least then people who wanted them as characters but know their chances of inclusion are low will still get to play them in spirit.

No. That would just be insulting.

 

[Darkmask]

Wasn't there a Blood Falcon costume in Melee?

Just Blood Falcon colored, red and purple color scheme, other than that they didn't include the extra nuances that make Blood Falcon distinct from C. Falcon, like the evil spikes of doom, high evil color, loose scarf, and evil skull boots.

 

[Darkmask]

No. That would just be insulting.

How so? Are you joking? It's hard to tell in this thread sometimes if someone is being serious or not.

 

[arcticfox8]

I guess I understand; the transition from Mario to Dr. Mario definitely is a much smaller step than Pikachu to Pichu. Although I thought Dr. Mario had more things altered than just the pills, like FSmash, though that could just be cosmetic. It just seems incredibly nitpicky on their part, and this is coming from someone who loves PM and only slightly wants Pichu in. It's just odd I guess haha.

The pills are just cosmetic, too.
For every costume, the only thing that changes is cosmetics.
This information needs to be spread, because seriously I watched a tournament where the stream commentators even got this wrong.
We need competent stream commentators. That starts with competent people who don't spread misinformation.

 

[Saito]

Ooh, he looks like he'd be interesting. Let me come up with a moveset:

B - Falcon Punch: Blood Falcon charges up for a while for a devastating punch!
Up B - Falcon Dive: Blood Falcon leaps up and grabs any character away, then launches him away
Side B - Raptor Boost: Blood Falcon flies forward for an uppercut. In midair, it's a lowercut.
Down B - Falcon Kick: A forward flaming kick. Angled downwards in midair.

FAir - A flying knee that does a lot of damage if you hit the right sweet spot

Oh, I'm running out of time. Feel free to finish this up for me, but I think I'm on to a very unique and interesting moveset.

You forgot to change the properties and names of all the stuff to blood.

Blood Punch
Blood Dive
Blood Boost
Blood Kick

The Bleeding Knee

 

[Saito]

The pills are just cosmetic, too.

Pills don't cause fire damage
No fire damage = No explosive crates automatically explodes.

 

[Cool Blue]

How so? Are you joking? It's hard to tell in this thread sometimes if someone is being serious or not.

How would you like it if your favorite character was included,
...
...
...
as an alt. costume? Plus, we just went over how alt. costumes worked. No changing the character itself.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Okay, stupid question time!

This has probably been shot down ages ago-- how feasible would it be to clone Plusule and Minun from the Ice Climbers?

Both of their Neutral B attacks are projectiles, and it looks like The IC's vB may be a projectile as well. I could see Plusule and Minun having a similar move as their discharge attack (it would get bigger and stronger the more they ran around, much like Plasma Kirby in Super Star). They could inherit Pichu's self-damage gimmick and also inherit the best from the IC's (a wicked grab game, for example.)

 

[Darkmask]

How would you like it if your favorite character was included,
...
...
...
as an alt. costume? Plus, we just went over how alt. costumes worked. No changing the character itself.

But as I explained it's an established evil clone version of the same character, something that is already allowed in Smash Bros.'s original set-up with the Link/Dark Link thing. They aren't the same character but Dark Link is the evil magic clone of Link, just like Blood Falcon is the evil biological clone of C. Falcon and Dark Samus is the Phazon clone of Samus, seems to follow the same pattern to me.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

A Black Shadow reskin of current Ganondorf to make soom for a weapon wielding Ganondorf as a new character? I have to admit that is an interesting idea, you'd retain Ganondorf for people who like playing him currently, and a C. Falcon clones makes more sense as another F-Zero character, and you'd appease Ganondorf haters who think he needs a sword, by making him a completely new character from scratch, although if they are going to go that far, forget the longsword and go for the giant greatsword.

Plus new F-Zero rep, who only has one rep so far, a new villain which I like cause I love me some evil characters, plus I think Black Shadow and Ganondorf look like they could easily have similar body builds, you'd just wanna make a few tweaks to Fisticuffs Ganondorf's attacks, cause if you'd gonna have those big Black Shadow horns, you gotta have at least one or two attacks where he gores his enemies with them!

*yells* WE CAUGHT ANOTHER ONE, MA!


Aside, that's pretty much the whole reason the idea was so supported in the first place, i.e. it makes complete sense.

Now, the reason it probably won't ever happen in Project M, particularly, is because

A) This is a mod inspired by Super Smash Bros. Melee, to appease fans of that particular game. In Melee, Ganondorf was a Capt. Falcon clone, for whatever backwoods reason.

B) If Ganondorf was changed to be a completely new character it would alienate the Ganondorf players who, for whatever reason, feel Ganondorf being a clone of Capt. Falcon is perfect for him and would despise the change.

C) A lot of people are used to this decision by now, so they'd rather see the remaining 5 clone engine slots go toward new characters, not revamping an old one.

D) The people who hate Black Shadow really, really, REALLY hate him, I mean their hate is so strong that his inclusion would actually cause them to quit playing the game.



All of the above reasons are why most supporters of the idea have either completely given up hope for it or simply support it, but only silently so as to keep the thread here clean and flame war-free.

Another thing of note: all of those reasons come up because Project M's audience is different from the main series games'. The ratio of competitive players to casual ones is WAY bigger on the former than the latter, and competitive players' opinions simply matter more since they help keep this beautiful mod alive. Since most competitive Ganondorf players would hate having to switch mains to play specifically Ganondorf, not the moveset they were already familiar with (which wouldn't actually go away, it'd stay there in the form of Black Shadow), it would hurt the PMBR's street cred with the competitive community and they'd suffer big time.


In the end, I've accepted that Black Shadow / Ganondorf will never happen in Project M, so the best I can hope for is for the idea to come to fruition in Smash 4, which won't play like Melee and as such won't suffer from this problem too much. If Ganondorf continues to be a clone in Project M, I can only live with that while I enjoy the mod's other wonderful things.

Edit:

You forgot to change the properties and names of all the stuff to blood.

Blood Punch
Blood Dive
Blood Boost
Blood Kick

The Bleeding Knee

0_o

The Bleeding Knee suddenly makes me want Blood Falcon more. That's a kicka$$ attack name.

 

[UltimateWario]

I don't see why the nuances of Blood Falcon's costume can't be added to Cap's current Blood costume (similar to Fire Peach's changes), especially since he can just be "cosplaying" as Blood. I really really doubt anyone is pushing very hard for a playable Blood Falcon, especially since he would be a clone of Cap at best. Dark Samus is a different beast altogether (both figuratively and literally), and having a color swap based on her is likely as far as that concept would ever go.

If Pichu doesn't make it, then that means that somebody's main that will never, ever be in another smash game again.

That's a very tenuous argument, as people who mained characters that were heavily changed in P:M will never get to play as their mains, either. And, as silly of an argument as it is, the masses weren't exactly clamoring to main Pichu in Melee. AND, Pichu, in being implimented, would probably be completely different, anyway. That said, I'm not heavily for or against Pichu's inclusion, as long as other, bigger (ha) and more important characters get in beforehand.

 

[arcticfox8]

It's not that they feel his moveset is perfect for him, it's that they've played that moveset with him and grown a connection to said character. I for one used to hate Charizard. But now I have a kind of respect for him through playing him and growing as a player with him. If they decided to give Zard a new moveset and give his moveset to Dragonite, it wouldn't be the same. I could still play him exactly the same, but the feel is off. It's not Charizard anymore.
I understand you can rebuttal with a similar point, but you also have to remember this is a Smash game first, not a Zelda tribute. While most Smash games serve as a tribute to Nintendo history, PM itself serves more as a tribute to the competitive history of Smash. Finally delivering the fans a game where all characters are viable and tiers truly are for queers. So giving Ganon a sword when he already has a kick-ass slam-dunking moveset isn't a priority.

Just my two cents

 

[UltimateWario]

they decided to give Zard a new moveset and give his moveset to Dragonite

Great, now supporters for Dragonite are going to start popping up. Thanks a lot.

 

[arcticfox8]

Great, now supporters for Dragonite are going to start popping up. Thanks a lot.

****E

 

[Cool Blue]

But as I explained it's an established evil clone version of the same character, something that is already allowed in Smash Bros.'s original set-up with the Link/Dark Link thing. They aren't the same character but Dark Link is the evil magic clone of Link, just like Blood Falcon is the evil biological clone of C. Falcon and Dark Samus is the Phazon clone of Samus, seems to follow the same pattern to me.

You still didn't answer my question.

 

[Anti Guy]

Whoops, that was a typo; I meant

 

[Saito]

Dragonite is too big.

Why isn't everyone supporting far superior slowpoke,

 

[Cool Blue]

Dragonite is too big.

Why isn't everyone supporting far superior slowpoke,

Or Slowking, the evolution of Slowbro.

 

[arcticfox8]

inb4 actual Dragzard supporters

.....

I'm sure there's homophobic subtext there

 

[UltimateWario]

Or Slowking, the evolution of Slowbro.

Slowpoke can evolve into either Slowbro or Slowking, not one then the other.

-is probably missing some joke-

 

[Cool Blue]

Slowpoke can evolve into either Slowbro or Slowking, not one then the other.

-is probably missing some joke-

Notice the

 

[Shin F.]

Pills don't cause fire damage
No fire damage = No explosive crates automatically explodes.

An interesting note, here: Pills also aren't energy-based, and yet Ness and Lucas can absorb them with their shields just like Fireballs. I thought that was pretty funny.

 

[arcticfox8]

An interesting note, here: Pills also aren't energy-based, and yet Ness and Lucas can absorb them with their shields just like Fireballs. I thought that was pretty funny.

The implications

 

[Sour Supreme]

As broken-record as I sound at this point. If Ridley, Lyn, or Isssac somehow don't make it, the worst people can say is "Welp, they would have been awesome. Darn!"

If Pichu doesn't make it, then that means that somebody's main that will never, ever be in another smash game again. Young Link at least had most of his attributes transferred into Toon Link. Pichu has virtually no representation whatsoever.
That "waste of space" has people out there that genuinely like and main it, while the rest of the suggested characters (as awesome as they are) are only great ideas at this point.

On top of that, the game could use a sillier, more disrespectful character that people can cheese with since the rest of the characters are already SO good.
A character who's decent enough to be viable, but just bad enough for it to be embarrassing if you lose to them. NOBODY else in the game really fills that niche.

Because he's the Chu that Project M deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

It's not that they feel his moveset is perfect for him, it's that they've played that moveset with him and grown a connection to said character. I for one used to hate Charizard. But now I have a kind of respect for him through playing him and growing as a player with him. If they decided to give Zard a new moveset and give his moveset to Dragonite, it wouldn't be the same. I could still play him exactly the same, but the feel is off. It's not Charizard anymore.
I understand you can rebuttal with a similar point, but you also have to remember this is a Smash game first, not a Zelda tribute. While most Smash games serve as a tribute to Nintendo history, PM itself serves more as a tribute to the competitive history of Smash. Finally delivering the fans a game where all characters are viable and tiers truly are for queers. So giving Ganon a sword when he already has a kick-*** slam-dunking moveset isn't a priority.

Just my two cents

Well, to be fair, Pokémon fans AND Smash fans can say that Charizard is properly represented in Project M, so he's a different case than Ganondorf quite frankly.

Nonetheless I see your point.


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No joke, Dragonite would be f*cking awesome.

 

[Darkmask]

You still didn't answer my question.

Alright, I understand that she/it is your favorite character and I do respect that, but we also know that the chances of Dark Samus being added aren't great. I was just saying if Dark Samus cannot be added as a character of her/it's own, wouldn't an alt costume be the next best thing?

 

[Shin F.]

Alright, I understand that she/it is your favorite character and I do respect that, but we also know that the chances of Dark Samus being added aren't great. I was just saying if Dark Samus cannot be added as a character of her/it's own, wouldn't an alt costume be the next best thing?

I personally don't particularly care who it is, Metroid needs another rep. If it's not Dark Samus, I would be perfectly happy with having her as an alt. Add Aura flags to her attacks to make it look like Phazon, and we're golden.

 

[Cool Blue]

Alright, I understand that she/it is your favorite character and I do respect that, but we also know that the chances of Dark Samus being added aren't great. I was just saying if Dark Samus cannot be added as a character of her/it's own, wouldn't an alt costume be the next best thing?

Like I said, it would be insulting.
Remember when Sakurai said that Waluigi would be in Smash 4, as an assist trophy?
Remember when there where all of the butthurt Waluigi fans?
Yeah. That was insulting.

Also, it wouldn't make much sense for Dark Samus to be able to switch beam types.

 

[Bleck]

Remember when Sakurai said that Waluigi would be in Smash 4, as an assist trophy?
Remember when there where all of the butthurt Waluigi fans?
Yeah. That was insulting.

I think that being insulted because your favorite character isn't in Smash Bros stopped being in vogue about thirteen years ago

 

[Solbliminal]

HOW DO THESE CHARACTERS NOT HAVE SOME FORM OF APPEARANCE IN BRAWL!? I call shenanigans on Sakurai. He knew the day of Project M would come. He knew...