[Nesu] It's so deserted here I could find Criminal Caterpillars. (Post here if you're cool)

[x13mako]

I don't think Ness on wifi is that bad.

EDIT: Though I don't do much on wifi anyway so I'm probably not the best source.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Don't get grabbed.

 

[Dajayman]

Dungeon Man for top tier. And yeah GR on Ness needs to get kicked out , If that happens I shall unleash the most agroNess Ness in all of Ness history and sit back and drink some Nesstea while my opponent screams at me saying it was uNessessary for me to spike him even though he already couldn't recover.

Ness puns are punny.

I don't think Ness on wifi is that bad.

EDIT: Though I don't do much on wifi anyway so I'm probably not the best source.

Ness in my opinion is a character that needs a lot of precise control. All of Ness' aerials are all pretty safe on defenses when timed and spaced right, PKT and PKF need precise timing and control, and recovering with PKT2 needs either precise timing or excellent muscle memory.

Input lag, lag, and lag spikes will destroy all of the above. Also Ness doesn't have much wifi abuse powers either and will instead just SD when trying to recover with PKT2 due to convenient lag spikes.

Don't get grabbed.

Ness performs his best playing smartly aggressive, it's bound to happen one way or another.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Well then I guess there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Eagleye893]

@Dajay, I agree with the smartly aggressive approach. Honestly, you can get away with a passive game on some stages, but some characters you can't do anything about and must be aggressive against.

On SV, You can be passive as long as you play with the platform a ton.
On Delfino, you can play passive depending on where you are. Water depends, Edges of stage you should go aggro to try and flip positioning or just jump over the person with like DAir or something.
On Halberd, you can be passive iff you can mess with going up from beneath the floating part of the stage.

But all other times, you've gotta basically be using BAir and UAir landing and in other ways, FAir/NAir rising and other ways, getting grabs in when possible, and punishing things with ftilt, dsmash (on some characters), and DAir.

 

[Dajayman]

I think Ness performs better offensively than defensively because his damage output is sooooooooo much better when he goes in.



Offensively Ness has:
- AC fair to many followups (not combos, followups) including grab, jab, tilts, yoyos.
- Aggressive well spaced instant SH nairs/bairs hit very nice damage-wise and are hard to punish since Ness has a few options out of them (DJ, a DAS uair/nair/fair, AD/FFAD).
- AC uair puts opponents in the air, which is bad for many characters. AC uairs are easier to land when being aggressive with things like DAS.
- Ness has the best best dash grab in the game, one of the few characters who doesn't even need to dash shieldgrab. Abusing this offensively puts a lot of damage on with Ness' powerful throws.
- PKF followups are hot. ;3


Defensively Ness is pretty garbage:
- Ness has little standing grab range, so shieldgrabbing is really hard on smart spacing.
- Fair is Ness' longest range move, and unfortunately when spaced to the fullest gives it very little damage output. All of Ness' other moves aren't have bad range or are yoyos.
- PKT isn't a camping projectile. PKF is a tad too slow for constant camping with it. PK Flash is a lol move.
- Yoyos are pretty dumb, both have good range but they both have strange negative properties most normal moves don't have. Usmash and dsmash have weird hitboxes where if they clank with or are outprioritized by another hitbox than the yoyo won't damage anything anymore. Yoyos do low damage (damage = priority) so they clank/get outprioritized by lots of things.

Dsmash is extra stupid in that if you try to hit some characters with the inital part of the hitbox they'll simply popup a bit from the weak hitbox and the strong hitbox will miss so the enemy will get a free hit on Ness while he's finishing the dsmash.

 

[Eagleye893]

I'm pretty sure if you space the DSmash right, you can make it so the charging hitbox misses and the forward swing just hits them, but that's risky.

Can't test; at college doing work.

 

[Luco]

I honestly preferred his yoyo in 64. IMO his yoyo in brawl is just awful, and i can never get anyone with it. Then i get angry and start spamming PKT2 all over the stage to get some random kills on my brother. Unfortunately he knows how to avoid it, unlike just about every single person i verse online in Australia which makes me even angrier, to the point where i stop toying with him with anyone i happen to be versing and go full force.

Yeah, i preferred his old yoyo.

 

[BluePSI]

That's because it had a +63 offence and +53 PP :3

 

[Dajayman]

When trying to hit with dsmash front hitbox it's more about timing than spacing. It takes a while for the hitbox to go to the front, about as much timing as hitting with a fsmash.

 

[Luco]

Yeah true. Whenever i switch from ness to lucas or vice versa i always get iffy with the bats/sticks. I'm always expecting it to be too slow or too fast.

 

[Eagleye893]

true with the dsmash, dajay. I need to perfect my skittlez with it so I can hit with just the rush forward early on.

Usmash has a sort of odd arc to it. It goes slowly down on the ground and moves upward away from ness slightly after the charge hit has gone, before going in the circular path. If anything, that move should be used for getting a good hit off, but it doesn't kill.... ever....

 

[Dajayman]

Usmash oos is pretty legit since it has better range than shieldgrab. And I almost always charge it a slight bit so it can get two hits in.

 

[Eagleye893]

That's one option I forget a lot for some reason. Honestly, I know it's great, but I keep forgetting about it until random times when it won't work...

that and reverse hyphen usmash...

 

[Dajayman]

I have yet to find a reliable situation for hyphen usmash with Ness. I bet it'd be useful as **** for Fox (my secondary) if somebody expects a normal hyphen usmash and shields, just run past a dude and charge up a hyphen usmash behind shield.

 

[_clinton]

Anyone playing Brawl-?

 

[Dajayman]

Brawl hacks are all dead in my area.

 

[Eagleye893]

what's a brawl hack?

 

[Dajayman]

What's an 893?

 

[x13mako]

what's a brawl hack?

What's an 893?

 

[Luco]

What are good ness match-ups again? I can never remember. I would've thought Ike is good for ness(and lucas), and i wonder who else?

 

[Dajayman]

Ness doesn't have really good matchups, his best one is Ganon.

 

[BluePSI]

Ness doesn't have really good matchups, his best one is Ganon.

Makes me want to draw a Picture of Ness fighting Ganon with the Master Sword while Link looks on in an annoyed manner, but I can't draw, and I can't be bothered :D

 

[Dajayman]

Ness don't need a Master Sword when he's wielding baseball bats of death. <3

 

[Luco]

Ness doesn't need a screaming bat of... Oh wait. -_-

Hmmm, ganon eh? Fair enough.

 

[Eagleye893]

A well-played Ness can do well against almost all characters. The problem is not everyone can play well with Ness.

 

[_clinton]

I can be a well-played Ness sometimes. But most of the time I screw up in some way, mainly because I don't consider myself that good. Granted I feel the best way to be a good character is to know what every other character can do. The fact that I know pretty much what every character can do (really when it comes to killing) really helps avoid bs deaths.

Oh and I think Ness can do well vs. the cast as well for the most part, he just doesn't flat out destroy anyone...besides maybe Ganondorf (in game

Spoiler

and canon wise

)

 

[BluePSI]

Those bats are filled with explosives you know :D

 

[Luco]

I always just find you put pressure on people, and for the most part you can get them to a high percentage quickly to (insert kill method here).

 

[Dajayman]

I always just find you put pressure on people, and for the most part you can get them to a high percentage quickly to (insert kill method here).

^ That is exactly the best way to play as Ness in my opinon.




Ness racks up damage really quickly, he has a variety of kill moves (this is very good and I may explain why someday), and he has fairly average physical stats all around (things like fall speed, horizontal aerial speed, walk/run speed, weight, etc.) making him a very decent character.

Ness has a few main flaws outside dumb bulll****: his recovery, his defensive options, and his need for precision. So ideally Ness works best if you are intelligently aggressive.

But then we get into GR **** and other bull****, which really dampens Ness' ability in competitive play. The worst matchups Ness has are very defensive people who play characters with great defensive and/or gimping options. Marth has grab release into infinite or smashes/tilts as well as a sword to shutdown Ness' offensive capabilities and keep him offstage. DDD has his CG combined with the arguably the best standing grab in the game as well as certain moves with range to keep Ness away and offstage. And then other characters can really dissuade Ness from going on the offensive with their potential to GR him into a variety of painful things.

 

[Eagleye893]

Ness' recovery shouldn't be bad at all. If you DI right, you can make it back the stage without problems using just your DJ, but you need to do some mind-gaming.

His defensive options do suck. Honestly, I just constantly try and trade hits using BAir or do some stuff with FH PK Fire (gotta place it perfectly), except for on people like Marth, 'cause that doesn't work. If anyone shields, dashgrabbing is awesome. BAir > Dashgrab = cool. Expecting some people can see the dashgrab coming, sometimes just rush in with a shield-dash. The problem with shield-dashing is that sometimes the shield doesn't come out until a frame later than you'd need it to.
My old tactic was "shield-dash like a pro!" but that never works and is easy to get caught failing with. What I now do more often is "FH and see what happens..." Ness has a fairly high regular jump, and you can use a delayed FF'd AC'd DAir to bait your opponent or you can just BAir/UAir/NAir some stuff up.

******** NAIR SOURSPOT ON LANDING IS INSANE IF YOU CAN PLACE IT RIGHT! If you hit the back of someone's shield, and you cause yourself to land so that the NAir's sourspot animations end just before you hit the ground, you get a lagless landing and can either grab or do other crazy stuff. That was one thing I was going to experiment doing things with before I went off to college, but now it's too late. :'( If anyone wants to see what I mean or look into timing NAir so that you land laglessly, go ahead.

NAir's sourspot needs to be used more. It's low knockback is weird and crazy and can honestly help you gimp some characters. BAir's sourspot hits slightly upward, but NAir's just hits them toward minimal horizontal/down path.


GR stuff is dumb. The way that I try and avoid getting all the dumb grab-release stuff is to be great on ledge, above ledge, and near ledge. If they get closer to the ledge than I do, they're in a spot to be shield-pushed or thrown off the stage.

 

[Dajayman]

Ness' recovery isn't that bad because he has decent weight to prevent himself from being knocked offstage too far, so with proper DI a DJ is usually all that's needed to recover. But it obviously isn't that simple, people are going to try to keep you offstage and try to force us to use that awful PKT2 recovery. DJ fair is usually our safest option against edgeguarders, most characters don't have an answer to it.

I've been telling this board forever how amazing Ness' nair is. It's his fastest aerial, it has a very nice amount of power/damage to it, and it has sex kick properties. I just really wish it didn't have so much landing lag, it would open up even more opportunities to use it if it had say Peach's or Marth's nair landing lag.

 

[Chuee]

Ness' recovery is bad though..

 

[Dajayman]

Your trolling is worse.

 

[Chuee]

I'm not trolling though.
Ness' recovery is actually bad.

 

[Dajayman]

My statement wasn't a a troll either.

 

[Luco]

Ness' PKT2 is bad off stage, but on stage, and unexpected it can be the mother(no pun intended ) of all kills, so i sometimes use it to throw people off my game.

 

[Yink]

Hey guys, came to see how you were doing.

 

[Chuee]

Ness' PKT2 is bad off stage, but on stage, and unexpected it can be the mother(no pun intended ) of all kills, so i sometimes use it to throw people off my game.

*facepalm*
that pun was........idk

Hey guys, came to see how you were doing.

ITS YINK OFSMDLFMSLDNGQTFWer?oigiaerFGDSIJOGERIOGEORINEO
=o

 

[Eagleye893]

YINK?!?!?!?!?!

*HUGS*


I'm not letting go!!! DON'T LEAVE!!!
Dajayman's back, so the GD isn't dead. Other than that, not much has happened at all since you've gone.

I'm at college and almost certain to not enter a tournament until winter. PEOPLE ONLY PLAY MELEE HERE!!!! I NEED TO GET GOOD!!!