[Nesu] It's so deserted here I could find Criminal Caterpillars. (Post here if you're cool)

[Z'zgashi]

Well, yoshi can just jump through ness to stop his

 

[Dajayman]

I wonder if PKT kills Yoshi dj super armor at high percents. PKT ***** Yoshi dj at high percent at Melee, just stopped him dead in his tracks.

 

[Z'zgashi]

IT does around 230ish percent. But at that damage it'll also launch us high enough to easily get back to stage with egg toss. PKT2 hits us out at 4% though .__.

 

[Dajayman]

Brawl physics, makes old skool gimping methods a lot worse. At least Captain Falcon's reverse uair still gimps a lot of characters nicely. ;3

 

[Z'zgashi]

And Meta Knight sends all those methods down the toilet.

 

[Dajayman]

Your Dizzy avatar is sexy btw. <3

 

[Z'zgashi]

Gracias DJ.

 

[PSI.kick]

Indeed.

so it was 1 degree(s) out this morning. waiting for my bus sucked.

 

[Dajayman]

The bus had a hard time waiting for you. ;3

 

[Chuee]

the hard time had a bus waiting for you.

 

[Eagleye893]

You had a time waiting for thE bus.

Omit "hard"

 

[Yink]

Indeed.

so it was 1 degree(s) out this morning. waiting for my bus sucked.

All Ness mains know Teleport.

Fact.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

All Ness mains know Teleport.

Fact.

It comes in handy.

 

[Eagleye893]

I just never use it... Too lazy...

 

[_clinton]

Or jump at him with PSI Magnet. Poocas can't do the same to us as easily since he has a hitbox on his Magnet. Finally something Ness' Magnet excels at over Poocas'! ;3

But Lucas' magnet has a low angle of knockback that can kill at semi-high %, a bigger absorb box overall, and a faster recovery time in general so timing this isn't as hard at all.

 

[Z'zgashi]

All Ness mains know Teleport.

Fact.

I just roll around in my egg.

 

[Dajayman]

Let Ness' Magnet have it's one moment over Poocas' Magnet!

F***ing Sakurai gave Ness' Magnet the d***, Poocas' had to be better in every f***ing way possible...

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ness' Magnet heals slightly more than Lucas' does, just like how Ike's counter does slightly more damage and/or knockback than Marth's. Or at least, someone told me that was true.

 

[Dajayman]

Not true. Ness heals x1.5 damage and Poocas heals x2.0 damage. Poocas' PSI Magnet is the only move that I can admit that Poocas trumps over Ness. Poocas' Magnet beats Ness' in every conceivable stat.

 

[Yink]

Ness' Magnet heals slightly more than Lucas' does, just like how Ike's counter does slightly more damage and/or knockback than Marth's. Or at least, someone told me that was true.

Not true. Ness heals x1.5 damage and Poocas heals x2.0 damage. Poocas' PSI Magnet is the only move that I can admit that Poocas trumps over Ness. Poocas' Magnet beats Ness' in every conceivable stat.

This. ^

I do like the windbox though, I don't know why.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Oh, must've got it mixed up... But that's a bigger difference than Ike getting x1.2 and Marth x1.1.

Imo, Lucas' PK Fire over Ness' as it goes horizontally while airborne.

 

[Yink]

^

No. I think Ness' PK Fire is waaaaaay better. Ness' gives off more shield pressure if you use it right (because your'e still going to be autocancelling and things like that, lagless PKF going diagonally is nice imo).

Lucas' is really used for offstage, magnet pulls and some damaging (but it's so easy to perfect shield).

 

[Z'zgashi]

I just like Lucas' better, I didn't really mean it IS better. I play campy so having a quick horizontal projectile is nice.

 

[Chuee]

Ness' PKF is less safe than Lucas' PKF.
Retreatin mai PKF ALL DAI

 

[Dajayman]

Running shield PKF all day!

 

[Z'zgashi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295100

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Lucas' is really used for offstage, magnet pulls and some damaging (but it's so easy to perfect shield).

Espy did this nasty combo to Xyro with his Lucas, and killed him PK fire off stage.

 

[Eagleye893]

@dajay, if you think ness' psimag is worse, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

The wind is like a saving grace. It just gives a little more to what ness can do. I would've liked the greater absorb and the magnet pull and a bigger box... it is better in that respect.

Also, PKJUMP>>>>>>>>>> Lucas' PK Fire zap jump. Ness doesn't need help with recovery. If you plan well, you can recover with ness even from the bottom-most corner. Just dont waste your DJ... EVER! This includes onstage.

 

[Dajayman]

My DI is so good I don't even need to dj to get back onstage. ;3

 

[Yink]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295100

Seen it. It's being featured at Brainshock Beta. Not to worry.

 

[_clinton]

Let Ness' Magnet have it's one moment over Poocas' Magnet!

No

Not true. Ness heals x1.5 damage and Poocas heals x2.0 damage. Poocas' PSI Magnet is the only move that I can admit that Poocas trumps over Ness. Poocas' Magnet beats Ness' in every conceivable stat.

No

Jab-**** Ness having more range sometimes, there is even a slight disadvantage for that, Lucas' hitbox covers his whole body and isn't extending his hurt box right into an Ike Fsmash. Lucas' is better at canceling, is faster coming out, and is safer overall on block to a point. Oh and Jab lock? So the **** what when they both have ways of locking you (but Lucas has an easier time setting it up in general).
Ftilt-The difference in kill power if you want to use it for that for some reason is small enough not to matter IMO because Lucas' range, speed, and recovery for this move is so much better than Ness' little boy sized kick that you really have to feel sorry for Ness because man it shows off that he is a little kid when working this move. Hey I'm not making fun of Ness here, the fact is he is a little boy, who overall IMO has one of the smallest hurt boxes in the game on average. Still just because, Lol at the fact that Lucas can save or actually use this move to a point.
Dtilt-The trip rate is slightly higher for Ness' now? So what when Lucas' beats him range wise, and has slightly more hitstun so spamming this move on someone who doesn't trip isn't as dangerous right away.
Fsmash-Ness' has more kill power now? Yeah if you hit with the tip of the bat and even then the tipper isn't strong enough compared to Lucas' stick just normally to make up for the very bad sour spots, poor Bowser being KOed at slightly more than 100+% or so from a fresh one. Going on about the sour spots I mean come on, the 1st one is already weaker than the stick and after all of that Ness' power is compared to Marth's Fsmash when sour in KO range (as in only slightly better). Oh and range is greater plus speed of the move coming out is better of course but for some reason they have the same amount of cooldown time though, or at least enough to the point where they both shouldn't wildly throw their pieces of wood out in any predictable way. Just that at the least getting an opening is easier with Lucas. Oh and % doesn't matter
Dsmash-Lucas speed wise is taking 10 extra frames for it to 1st show up? Speed doesn't bug me all the time and I can say that easily because when I like this version of Ness' Yoyo over the Usmash one. So what the issue is for it is that when the all the moves are designed to counter people who roll, sidestep, or play on the ledge/by the ledge too much that working against you even if you hit is a very bad thing. Unlike Ness' Dsmash the hits on Lucas' one don't have a chance of working against you at all when it comes to doing the right DI and the fact that Ness' yoyo in general can **** you even if you hit with the setup spot is a pretty sour deal if you ask me, no DI has no issue of working against you in Lucas' move, in fact bad DI will cost you considering how Lucas' Dsmash at lower % can hit more than once actually kind of easily if you move wrong. Oh and unlike Mewtwo's Lucas' doesn't have a blindspot behind him after the 1st hits. Oh and Lucas' Dsmash can actually kill at respectable % unlike Ness' Yoyo w/o relying on bad DI.

Anyway, that is all for now on direct moves because I'm lazy.

The wind is like a saving grace. It just gives a little more to what ness can do.

The only thing I feel Ness' wind truly gives a little more to what he can do over Lucas is to take advantage of the falling physics in Brawl when it comes to things like Snake's C4 recovery or whatever other stage/partner in a team match could come up with for gimmicks. As far as spacing goes I'd say Lucas has Ness beat just based off how much Lucas can move with his even normally.

But whatever, maybe I missed something here.

Also, PKJUMP>>>>>>>>>> Lucas' PK Fire zap jump. Ness doesn't need help with recovery.

Funny, Lucas doesn't need help with recovery as well actually but he gets it

Oh and who said you have to use Lucas' advanced movement options for only recovery my friend ^_^

Oh and I say advanced movement options for a reason because zap jump is just one of many and Lucas can use more than just fire for his as well (read, all of his specials even if Freeze is a true garbage move unlike that unlike Flash doesn't even have a quick draw option and won't kill as well, if anything help in the recovery most of the time). Just like PK Jump is one of many for Ness.

Oh and Lucas' fire>>>>>>Ness' fire if we are just talking about it normally as well. Lucas doesn't have to deal with the sad fact that over 1/2 the cast has an easy out option or perfect counter option when dealing with the main selling points of their various pillar parts like Ness does with his even if he lands it perfectly. Don't try using Ness' PK Fire on a Falco that knows about how much his reflector ****s it is all I'm going to say to you about that; it ****s it more than Mario's cape, Marth's counter, Ike's big jump thing, Zelda's Love, Pit's Shield, and so on. That is all I have to say about Ness' pillar.

Oh and yes Lucas' is safer as well to the point where I can be somewhat of an *** with it if I want to be. Granted Ness' is pretty safe as well actually to a point. Even on the ground if you know how to space it correctly to certain very picky points (and I can not show that much on wifi that well people, just learn how to throw pivot fires some though for starters).

 

[Dajayman]

Eww, Poocas talk. I think I'm getting tired of trolling Poocas...

 

[Atomsk_92]

Personally who do you think is better out of Ness & Lucas and explain why.

 

[Rockstar]

Ness. He does have a few negative flaws like his asi-asi recovery, and extra 10 grab release frames. But almost everyone happens to look over his pros for his cons. He has the best spike in the game, all of his projectiles are great edgeguards, his fair can almost be used as a zair (range wise, not ledge wise), every one of his aerials can kill(besides his fair), PT2 is stronger than a falcon punch, so it KO's at terribly low percents, his dtilt has a 50% guaranteed trip, so get it in twice and more then often they will fall, comboing into whatever you want. His jab lock is great. His FThrow can kill at 0% on alot of stages, and his back throw is just insane. Haha


Thanks. Im trying everyday to be as good as Ness is able to be. Which is alot more then meets the eye.

Sorry it took so long for me to respond. As for the tournament, I got 3th place, behind an olimar and an ice climber user

 

[Dajayman]

Fyi Poocas suffers the exact same way from those extra 10 frames of grab release vulnerability.

 

[Yink]

Personally who do you think is better out of Ness & Lucas and explain why.

He just has better options IMO, and an ace in case he needs it (bthrow). Not to say you should rely on it all the time but it's comforting and does make some people uneasy.

I also personally think Ness has more range too with his moves, and is more flexible because of that.

Lucas > Ness in recovery so I'm not going to argue that. Though, Lucas has a little harsher times with grab releases (such as DK's cargo *Ness gets dropped left/right so DK has to guess, Lucas falls straight down*).

That's just me though.

<3 Atomsk

 

[Dajayman]

Ness overall has a safer and more reliable moveset. For example, all of Ness' aerials autocancel except nair while only Lucas' uair autocancels. Lucas projectile game imo is worse than Ness', since PKF/PK Flash/PK Freeze are easily shielded/dodged, so that leaves PKT which imo Ness' is better since it's faster and has a longer tail, which means it's not easily air dodged unlike Lucas'.

Contrary to popular belief, Ness is way better at killing than Lucas. Ness has a large quantity of reliable kill moves: bthrow, bair, uair, dair offstage. Lucas on the other hand has to rely on his slow smashes to try to score kills, though dair into dtilt lock helps him set them up a bit.

Imo having a better recovery than Ness isn't too relevant. This is Brawl, all I have to do is DI well and drift back onto the stage, and if not then a dj will definitely get me back. Ness convienently has an amazing aerial game, most of the time dj fair will keep you completely safe from potential gimpers. Also I'd like to point out that since Ness overall has a better moveset and is heavier, he'll be sent flying offstage both a lot less and less as far than Lucas.

I already said that Ness and Lucas share the same grab release problems. However Ness does a much better job at not getting grabbed due to his safer and more reliable moveset.

Well I think that's it. This is why I think Ness is better than Lucas.

 

[AvariceX]

Ness is a better character for pretty much all the reasons already stated. But Lucas is better at being a low tier/gimmick character. The faster startup on some of Lucas' moves (especially dair and fsmash) make him a bigger threat as an opponent if you don't understand how he plays than if you were in the same situation against a Ness. Ness tends to require a bit more patience and thus gives you room to breathe and figure him out, while Lucas does not do this at all. If you understand both matchups though and it's not an issue then Ness is the more solid character. (imo)

Also, I remember someone here plays TvC but I don't remember who D: (Dajay?). So anyway, whoever that is may enjoy one of the projects I had mentioned I was working on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHouX_U858s

 

[Dajayman]

Naw, I don't play TvC...

 

[Z'zgashi]

I play TvC.

I use Saki+Yatter 2