Ness's Frame Data

Status
Not open for further replies.

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
3,758
Location
Orlando, Florida
#3
Thank you very much. Yesterday I was actually wondering if you were going to make one for Ness soon. I'll put this link in the Refefence thread. Though it'll probably be stickied too.
 

yoshi8984

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,107
Location
Canada, Laval, Quebec
NNID
TimmyTendo
Switch FC
SW-6176-0583-0131
#4
Nice seeing the frame data man! Just a few questions...

- What is the definition of a half-grappler and give an example? (Regarding his style)

- What is the "+SD" for and why is it only there for Dash Attack?

- Finally, is it possible to get the data for when the Magnet actually heals (i.e. how many it frames it takes for a projectile to swirl around before it heals it) AND the FAF for when he can Magnet Cancel? I can see this being a bit demanding tho so it's still cool if you can't haha.

On a personal note, damn, I seem to play such slow characters but I tend to find their speed as just average for most cases lol.
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
GRimer
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
15,982
Location
Australia
NNID
Aerodrome
#5
Nice seeing the frame data man! Just a few questions...

- What is the definition of a half-grappler and give an example? (Regarding his style)

- What is the "+SD" for and why is it only there for Dash Attack?

- Finally, is it possible to get the data for when the Magnet actually heals (i.e. how many it frames it takes for a projectile to swirl around before it heals it) AND the FAF for when he can Magnet Cancel? I can see this being a bit demanding tho so it's still cool if you can't haha.

On a personal note, damn, I seem to play such slow characters but I tend to find their speed as just average for most cases lol.
1) Half-grapplers are characters with decent grabs/useful command grab that can convert a lot off throws. Usually are heavyweights like Bowser, DK and Ike, but Ness sits in the same scenario having 3 really useful throws with the 4th not even being useless.

2) Bonus Shield Damage

3) Yes. Later.
 

Tf4 | Lukas

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
13
Location
Dacula, Georgia
3DS FC
4167-4487-9196
NNID
soldierofhis95
#10
Frame data is super solid and really nice. Although, I've always wondered. Do you think that the Smash 4 community will ever be able to do or replicate what kind of data output mew2king did for Melee? How the frame data is also accompanied by hit-box data and gifs of said data to help with visualizing and zoning approaches?
 
Last edited:

knu_OOKA

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
26
Location
Tallahassee, FL
3DS FC
5370-0495-9774
NNID
ukah19
#11
https://youtu.be/jIBYqSitY6w

So I was watching this set and now I have a question. When landing with Ness, is it favorable to use the early auto cancel window dair provides to buffer movement, or is it about the same as simply landing? I empty hop a lot with Ness and I was wondering whether I could save a few frames.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,684
Location
Santa Ana, CA
#18
Are you sure??

That's pretty big of a difference for me to not notice.
Positive. I always double check when I hit a number that contradicts certain sources, including yours. And I found one 1.04 source claiming the 26 landing lag. You keep up with community patch notes, right? I'm the guy that checks on Aerial landing lag side by side for each character. That information isn't tied to a hitbox (unless there's a landing hit), so there's no entry in Dantarion's data dump. Somebody has to manually spot changes with landing lag. It's probably more likely I missed Ness' Fair change in 1.06 when I started. In which case, that's my bad.
 

yoshi8984

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,107
Location
Canada, Laval, Quebec
NNID
TimmyTendo
Switch FC
SW-6176-0583-0131
#20
Hm, a few more questions...

1: What does it mean when a throw is weight dependent?

2: Is it possible to get data in order to count how many frames it takes for Ness to be able to act again after his PK Thunder hits something? I'm trying to see if there's a formula (like with PK Flash, it seems like it takes 26 frames after the charge is release).
^So say PK Thunder hits something/the stage on frame 55, what frame would he be able to act?

3: Also possible to get the data on how long the the initial hit (the part that goes through opponents) of PK Thunder lasts?

I hope I don't come off as demanding or anything for the latter 2 though, I can understand this is a bit trickier to get. =P
 

Hath

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
16
Location
United States
NNID
Trollburger
#21
Hm, a few more questions...

1: What does it mean when a throw is weight dependent?

2: Is it possible to get data in order to count how many frames it takes for Ness to be able to act again after his PK Thunder hits something? I'm trying to see if there's a formula (like with PK Flash, it seems like it takes 26 frames after the charge is release).
^So say PK Thunder hits something/the stage on frame 55, what frame would he be able to act?

3: Also possible to get the data on how long the the initial hit (the part that goes through opponents) of PK Thunder lasts?

I hope I don't come off as demanding or anything for the latter 2 though, I can understand this is a bit trickier to get. =P
Very good questions. All that information is very useful, thanks for asking. I don't have any recording software to check it for myself, but I believe they could find out.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,684
Location
Santa Ana, CA
#22
Hm, a few more questions...

1: What does it mean when a throw is weight dependent?

2: Is it possible to get data in order to count how many frames it takes for Ness to be able to act again after his PK Thunder hits something? I'm trying to see if there's a formula (like with PK Flash, it seems like it takes 26 frames after the charge is release).
^So say PK Thunder hits something/the stage on frame 55, what frame would he be able to act?
Weight dependent throws have the startup and endlag animations sped up or slowed down depending on the weight of the target you're throwing. This is important information, because when endlag is increased, then followup attacks are less likely to be a true combo. It's also a nice balancing mechanism that helps out heavyweights in regard to throw combos. Bowser is completely immune to the down throw combos of Game&Watch and Mario at low percents, which is a critical difference. Ness, however, is a lightweight, so he cannot escape these throw combos as well as others. Not all combo oriented throws are weight dependent, however. Few are. So being a heavyweight against the throws of Metaknight, Sheik, or Ness' Dthrow is generally the worst case scenario, because they are not weight dependent.

When Ness hits something with PK Thunder and it disappears, the FAF is 48. I counted it. As for the initial period where the head of the attack passes through targets, I have no idea. It's not long enough to pass through targets on a platform above him so, 5 or so frames, maximum?
 

yoshi8984

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
1,107
Location
Canada, Laval, Quebec
NNID
TimmyTendo
Switch FC
SW-6176-0583-0131
#23
When Ness hits something with PK Thunder and it disappears, the FAF is 48. I counted it. As for the initial period where the head of the attack passes through targets, I have no idea. It's not long enough to pass through targets on a platform above him so, 5 or so frames, maximum?
So from what I'm getting, frame 20 is the earliest Ness can hit a target with PK Thunder (and have it disappear), and then the FAF is 48 (so 28 frames after he hits a target)?
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,684
Location
Santa Ana, CA
#24
So from what I'm getting, frame 20 is the earliest Ness can hit a target with PK Thunder (and have it disappear), and then the FAF is 48 (so 28 frames after he hits a target)?
No, when you hit a target with PK Thunder and it disappears, Ness has an animation where he shakes his head. This animation takes 47 frames to finish from the point the projectile hits something. He can act on frame 48. As for your specific example, the projectile appears on 20, yes, but this is part of the period in which it would pass through targets, and not disappear. Speaking of:

As for the initial period where the head of the attack passes through targets, I have no idea. It's not long enough to pass through targets on a platform above him so, 5 or so frames, maximum?
This is incorrect. Hitting a target on a platform directly above ness will have the projectile pass through. But the period is still somewhere around 5 frames long.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom