Ness vs Zelda. Advantage or disadvantage

[HipsterKid]

Gawd are ALL Zelda players mean?
I'm glad I don't paly Zelda then O_o

Zelda players aren't mean at all.
They just don't treat any sort of obvious or partially harmful comment with happiness.
And yes, Ryoko is always like that. He doesn't take kindly to ignorant people. :]
Frankly, being glad you don't play Zelda isn't a good thing. I think Zelda's pretty darn great :D

Quite honestly I don't see "Tearing to shreds" the term for Ness's matchup with Zelda.
I honestly have seen Ness's PKT get gimped quite a few times. But I do agree that Ness's PKT vulnerability can lead to punishment. I just haven't timed it right yet.
I'm going to say Neutral on this one.

I do hope you've finally decided though~

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

It was teams, and online. Massive fail.

And I hate to turn to both Yuna and Pink and say stfu, but your pathetic ad hominems have no place in an intellegent discussion. Maybe no one else has the guts to stand up to the almighty Back roomers, but if you don't want to have a reasonable discussion, and would prefer to just attack my person, there's no place for you on this board.


EDIT : also, if it makes you actually care to know, in my PKT2 video, I was winning in 27 of the clips, and losing in 6 of them. Get your facts straight. Air dodge? learn how to tail-whip.

your existence = massive fail
"Maybe no one else has the guts to stand up to the almighty Back roomers" i'm no back roomer take the "s" off.
i could have sworn i just said it was teams. It seems like you just read the things you don't like and not the whole post.
About the PKT/PKT2 video, i was just joking you need to calm your nerves. You came into the argument ridiculously late to the point where it was almost over. There is no more reasonable discussion because it is already over. It is a neutral matchup.

 

[Yuna]

It should be noted that both me and Ryoko are gay and *****y queens.

 

[NKCell]

I don't think it's neutral. I think it's an advantage for Ness but Ness doesn't destroy Zelda. Zelda's best smashes (for damage) can be DIed out of, her aerial game is inferior and her recovery is only adequate. Her best bet is her down smash, which isn't good for racking damage. Ness has the better dash attack and can absorb Zelda's Fire.

I'd say at least a small advantage to Ness, if not a moderate one.

Also, Ryoko is like that for a reason. Zelda was awful in Melee and, though buffed, still isn't at the level that she should be.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Anyway, I think Ness should be Neutral to Shiek too. Not X!

Just like Ness can DI out of Zelda's killer attacks and use PSI magnet to stop DF
Shiek can Forward tilt lock Ness.

****, now I know how Yuna feels like...

 

[Yuna]

Anyway, I think Ness should be Neutral to Shiek too. Not X!

Just like Ness can DI out of Zelda's killer attacks and use PSI magnet to stop DF
Shiek can Forward tilt lock Ness.

****, now I know how Yuna feels like...

How the hell does a, what, 50-60% forward-tilt lock compare to Ness being able to PSI magnet Din's Fire and DI out of Zelda's smashes (which pretty much everyone can)?

 

[Smashbros_7]

Cazcom: You mentioned friendlies. You lose.
Raph: IMO, the matchup is fairly even. I started out arguing that Zelda has a tiny advantage, but now I'm leaning towards Ness having a small advantage. It's not a huge advantage, however.

Thats it, im closing this topic.

You can't just switch sides!
It goes

Yuna: Zelda
Raph: Zelda
Sonic: Zelda

vs

Me: Ness
Capzom: Ness
EB360: Ness

YOU RUINED IT!

 

[Earthbound360]

Yeah, I think you should close this topic. It's not even a friendly discussion any more. Its devolved to Zelda players flaming Ness players and the like.

 

[GodAtHand]

I give a slight advantage to Zelda! But no one knows who I am yet so you don't have to take me too seriously! ^_^

Reasoning = In the tournaments I have been to I have fought 3 or so different Ness players and none of them have been even remotely troublesome.

Believe it or not the thing about ness that gives me the most problems is his yo-yo, its not like normal smashes lol.

 

[Yuna]

Yeah, I think you should close this topic. It's not even a friendly discussion any more. Its devolved to Zelda players flaming Ness players and the like.

Quote me or Raph or Sonic Wave flaming anyone in this thread.

 

[NKCell]

Yeah, I think you should close this topic. It's not even a friendly discussion any more. Its devolved to Zelda players flaming Ness players and the like.

Because that isn't rabid fanboyism.

Really, it's to be expected that other character's players are going to come in here and unrealistically defend their mains. We do the same, why expect different from anyone else? I don't think we should shut down the discussion just because Yuna has an acidic wit.

 

[Earthbound360]

Why does it have to be you Raph or Sonic? There are other people here too.

your existence = massive fail
"Maybe no one else has the guts to stand up to the almighty Back roomers" i'm no back roomer take the "s" off.
i could have sworn i just said it was teams. It seems like you just read the things you don't like and not the whole post.
About the PKT/PKT2 video, i was just joking you need to calm your nerves. You came into the argument ridiculously late to the point where it was almost over. There is no more reasonable discussion because it is already over. It is a neutral matchup.

Line #1

 

[Smashbros_7]

How the hell does a, what, 50-60% forward-tilt lock compare to Ness being able to PSI magnet Din's Fire and DI out of Zelda's smashes (which pretty much everyone can)?

It doesn't. I was being sarcastic.

Anyway! Can someone explain the mechanics of Shieks FTilt lock anyway?

 

[Yuna]

Why does it have to be you Raph or Sonic? There are other people here too.

Because we were the three named people arguing on Zelda's side.

Also, one flamer does not an entire group make. So what if one person on Zelda's side flamed? I can dig up people on Ness' side who's flamed. But that doesn't really mean much when the majority of the people in the thread aren't flaming.

 

[Uffe]

It doesn't. I was being sarcastic.

Anyway! Can someone explain the mechanics of Shieks FTilt lock anyway?

Easy. Go up to your opponent and use forward tilt. Bad for big guys, but not so much for the little ones.

 

[NKCell]

Why does it have to be you Raph or Sonic? There are other people here too.



Line #1

Judging by Pink's tone and content, he's a bit new. That's why he's pretty much been ignored.

 

[Smashbros_7]

This is boring, so let me insight flames. I want Zelda's side, what MAKES her have an advantage.

To me she has 2 notches down. (DI able ground kill moves) (loss of DF approach due to Psi magnet)

Whats her spice, her sizzle!
Aerials? (I hate her fair and bair, their hard to hit with...)

 

[Nestec]

All I know is that a lot of Ness' strong points don't work so well on her...
She prevents PKFire spam, DSmash and Nayru's Love are VERY defensive and are useful to avoiding Ness' grabs...

Her ground game pretty much beats his, I think...

Ness wins at air-game...

I think as far as recovery/edgeguarding/gimping goes, they're even.

 

[HipsterKid]

This is boring, so let me insight flames. I want Zelda's side, what MAKES her have an advantage.

To me she has 2 notches down. (DI able ground kill moves) (loss of DF approach due to Psi magnet)

Whats her spice, her sizzle!
Aerials? (I hate her fair and bair, their hard to hit with...)

She has only two DI able ground kill moves, that can still kill if DI isn't attempted properly.
Up Tilt, Foward Tilt, and Down Smash can very will make up for what those two are lacking. There's even Dtilt to Up Tilt, a great killing strategy. Besides, people still do tend to get caught in UpSmash and FSmash, even though they're DI able.

I thought it was discussed already that Psi Magnet doesn't completely demolish a Din's Fire approach? Not trying to be sarcastic, just unsure.

Zelda, in the good hands, can land quite a few F-Airs and B-Airs a match.

As well as Up Air. Although it can be obvious that that's what they're going for, it isn't impossible to land them at all. I've even gone so far as to UpAir but fail because of a dodge but follow up with a Lightning Kick while still in the air to kill the person off.

Her Down Air, although lacking in priority badly, can be useful if the situation is correct. It can kill off the edge at very low percentages. I'm good Zeldas can manage maybe one a match.

Lastly, her throws. Her running grab is pretty great. Her Back Throw, if not decayed, can kill. Her other throws can open up many options.

 

[Brinzy]

I want Zelda's side, what MAKES her have an advantage.

...........

For the last time, we were arguing for neutral.

 

[Smashbros_7]

She has only two DI able ground kill moves, that can still kill if DI isn't attempted properly.
Up Tilt, Foward Tilt, and Down Smash can very will make up for what those two are lacking. There's even Dtilt to Up Tilt, a great killing strategy. Besides, people still do tend to get caught in UpSmash and FSmash, even though they're DI able.

I thought it was discussed already that Psi Magnet doesn't completely demolish a Din's Fire approach? Not trying to be sarcastic, just unsure.

Zelda, in the good hands, can land quite a few F-Airs and B-Airs a match.

As well as Up Air. Although it can be obvious that that's what they're going for, it isn't impossible to land them at all. I've even gone so far as to UpAir but fail because of a dodge but follow up with a Lightning Kick while still in the air to kill the person off.

Her Down Air, although lacking in priority badly, can be useful if the situation is correct. It can kill off the edge at very low percentages. I'm good Zeldas can manage maybe one a match.

Lastly, her throws. Her running grab is pretty great. Her Back Throw, if not decayed, can kill. Her other throws can open up many options.

Up tilt isn't a reliable killer. Her forward tilt seems logically, but it's kinda slow for a tilt.
With both her smashes DIable she needs to rely on her aerials to kill. I never get hit by a human Zelda's fair and bair. (Only lvl 09 cpu's, because their magic like that)

Her running grab has decent range, and her backthrow kills really late. But compare her throws to Ness. I mean, BEST BACK THROW EVER AMIRITE?

 

[Yuna]

Up tilt isn't a reliable killer. Her forward tilt seems logically, but it's kinda slow for a tilt.

No it's not. It's laggy on cooldown, but not on startup (though it's not 4 frames like U- and Dsmash).

With both her smashes DIable she needs to rely on her aerials to kill.

Tilts and Dsmash.

I never get hit by a human Zelda's fair and bair. (Only lvl 09 cpu's, because their magic like that)

Well, if you never get hit by them, that settles everything!

Her running grab has decent range, and her backthrow kills really late. But compare her throws to Ness. I mean, BEST BACK THROW EVER AMIRITE?

"Really late"?

 

[Brinzy]

Back throw kills just a few % after Ness's, sometimes before if the player DI improperly.

 

[HipsterKid]

Up tilt isn't a reliable killer. Her forward tilt seems logically, but it's kinda slow for a tilt.
With both her smashes DIable she needs to rely on her aerials to kill. I never get hit by a human Zelda's fair and bair. (Only lvl 09 cpu's, because their magic like that)

Her running grab has decent range, and her backthrow kills really late. But compare her throws to Ness. I mean, BEST BACK THROW EVER AMIRITE?

You've got it mixed up, I think. UpTilt is the one that is the logical killer. Foward Tilt is the one that has a harder time killing, because it mainly always says them diagonally. UpTilt can kill at around 110 percent. There is no need to say you need to rely on aerials because she most definitely doesn't. And, because you've never been hit by Fair or Bair does not mean that it doesn't happen. It happens all the time. Her backthrow doesn't kill all that late. Ness's backthrow is okay.

 

[Nestec]

Lol, the Zelda vs. Ness war is gonna go down in history... XD
At least, for a couple months.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

It's sort of a hilarious topic because it's a bunch of Ness players trying to tell a bunch of Zelda players how to play their own character.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Sweet... Yuna and Hipster kid took the bait...


Okay. Her up tilt does NOT kill at 110%. Shenanegans.

Her backthrow with DI doesn't effectively kill Mario until around 140%. Ness kills at 120%. The gap is huge.

 

[Brinzy]

Except Zelda doesn't b-throw from the middle of FD at an iffy %. She b-throws near the edge for the most part. If she grabs at an iffy %, chances are she'll pummel -> d-throw, where she can kill with something else.

Also, utilt should kill before 110% on Ness. I know it has killed me on the bases of Smashville and FD before 100%.

 

[Yuna]

Her backthrow with DI doesn't effectively kill Mario until around 140%. Ness kills at 120%. The gap is huge.

Pray tell, at what % does Ness' bthrow kill Mario from the middle of FD with DI?

 

[Smashbros_7]

Ahem!!! Ack Cough!


127%

 

[Brinzy]

That's not a huge gap...

 

[Yuna]

Ahem!!! Ack Cough!


127%

Note that "full DI" means "the best DI". The best DI is not the same from the middle of FD compared to the edge of FD.

Now do this for Zelda's Bthrow.

 

[Smashbros_7]

I was lying. with more testing Zelda kills Mario with DI at the center of FD at 143%.

Ness kills Mario at 125% at center of FD. I get it, it's not tha big.



Okay edge.


Zelda backthrow kills at 120% ish at the edge.
Ness kills at 100%.

 

[HipsterKid]

Sweet... Yuna and Hipster kid took the bait...


Okay. Her up tilt does NOT kill at 110%. Shenanegans.

Her backthrow with DI doesn't effectively kill Mario until around 140%. Ness kills at 120%. The gap is huge.

It's really obvious you're just trying to toy with the situation.
I don't see why though, must of the arguing is already done.
Anyway, if not decayed [which it has no reason to be since it isn't a combo move], UpTilt can very well kill before 110. Ness isn't one of the heavy characters, mind you.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Okay. Her up tilt does NOT kill at 110%. Shenanegans.

absolutely correct.

it kills BEFORE 110% damage... thank you for pointing that out.

 

[goodkid]

it kills at 100% depending if you used it before during the match.