Ness vs. High Tiers discussion/Character Matchups

[Wave⁂]

Yep, title changed.

yea i was thinking abut making ness my ssecondary but i have a couple questions

1 wat are the main things i need to know to play ness
2. can he keep up with the high tier characters

I've decided to make a thread relating to #2 there. As stated by Ademisk:

2. That's debatable.

So lets debate. Try being as specific as possible. If we're talking about Marth, and you decided to post "You can abuse his really horrible recovery," please say that you are talking about Falco. Try not to wander too far away from the actual topic. If you do, I will hire (read: half-heartedly try to convince) Simna to assassinate you (read: your SWF account).


Some things to debate:

Recovery
General fighting 'n' stuff
Spacing (Marth)
Stages
Blah
Blah blah

GO.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Well, Ness can't keep up with Sheik, that's for sure...

 

[mood4food77]

don't use ness on high tiers...he gets ***** by all

ness is strictly for low tiers

 

[Ademisk]

Wow, such pessimistic responses. I've said the same about Shiek myself but it simply isn't true. Smash Bros isn't so broken that someone like Shiek or Marth or Falco can absolutely destroy ANYONE. With Mindgames, good spacing, and the ability to adapt your play style for these different characters, it is possible for Ness to beat them. He has the attacks, he has the skills, even his recovery has potential against them(albeit difficult to pull off even for someone well practiced in it). I'm not the best person to talk specifics though..I'm still finding them for myself.

 

[kenny10]

don't use ness on high tiers...he gets ***** by all

ness is strictly for low tiers

One word: Simna

Anyways, I think that Ness does a lot better against Fox, Falco, and Falcon than other high tier characters.

 

[mood4food77]

i know who simna is...my ness takes after his

he's just a really good player who can handle high tiers with ness, not many can do that

so i'm sayin gis don't try to use him, we're not simna

also, ness is hte 2nd best character for low tier tournaments anyways

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i appreciate the acknowledgement of my skill but...i feel embarrassed when other ppl brag for me...lol plz stop

so i'm sayin gis don't try to use him, we're not simna

don't listen to him...
i know where my own strengths and weaknesses are...(i try to make the weaknesses as few as i can^_^), but should other ness players keep trying and become excellent thru their own series of events and experiences then they will have their own strengths and weaknesses....then should we meet we will only get better by combining our strengths to eliminate our weaknesses
i mean....i know i havent met like anyone from the ness boards in person, but if i can get to where i am then almost anyone can i think...and i look forward to the day that i improve my game by playing or even just watching another ness player


...but brawl is coming out huh....lol who cares im still gonna play mele while im playing brawl lol

oh and for good measure....here is the first video of me ever posted on smashboards(omg im so good lol): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8109131822471076198

EDIT: oh also, for anyone who happens to be modelling their ness after vids of me online, sure there are some cool moments in those vids, but mostly those vids are not acceptionally good and don't represent what Ness can and should be doing in matches. So...if you practice your ness after my vids then don't stop when u feel you've gotten to that level...because there's more^_^

 

[Ademisk]

Aw, but simna, you're our favorite person to brag about!

 

[kenny10]

Yeah. How many other Ness players are as well known as you? My friend even knows about you and he knows nothing about Ness.

 

[Phelix08]

lol Simna, you're a celebrity.
As for the origonal topic, I've only really had a horrible time against Marth, I'm not too good with spacing and the sword outranges/outprioritises everything I do. Sheik has always been painful and usually doesn't end well for me, but Marth just totally destroys everything I attempt.

 

[Ademisk]

Marth is weird to play if you're not used to doing lots of wavedashing. I still can't do it and my wavedashing is a lot better than before. He's not impossible, though, by ANY means. Even a pro Marth can be taken down with mindgames. And don't forget to work on those edgeguards, I've managed to tailwhip a Marth into submission once or twice, watch Simna's new videos for a good way to attempt a tailwhip without getting ***** for the effort.

 

[Wave⁂]

"also, ness is hte 2nd best character for low tier tournaments anyways"

Who's the best? Luigi?

As for Simna's first video.... I so know what I'm saying when I yawn. [yawn]I love orange juice![/yawn]

I wrote a program to analyze matchups between low tiers for the purpose of creating a tier list exclusively for low tier tourneys. I used the Phanna Chart matchup values. For details on my methodology and whatnot go here.

Here's a summary of the results.

God Tier
1) Ness

Top Tier
2) Pikachu

High Tier
3) Yoshi
4) Y. Link
5) Link
6) Mr. G&W
7) Luigi

Middle Tier
8) Zelda
9) DK

Low Tier
10) Roy
11) Kirby
12) Mewtwo

Bottom Tier
13) Bowser
14) Pichu

Thought this would make some of you Ness players happy.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

nonono ya see this is how its supposed to go:

1) No one brags for me
2) i brag for me
3) ppl laugh and call me noob in reply to my statements along the lines of "ken is ****ing easy" and "im pretty much gonna get 1st at EVO World"
4) i post something stupid and funny that included a "^_^"
5) ender and/or mow enter the topic and tell me to shut up in a creative way

Five easy steps.

 

[mood4food77]

i'm just saying is you're one of the few low tier players able to keep up with high tiers

i use ness...just not for tournaments...unless it's low tier

i was not bragging for you...just as an example like dire with g&w, bum with DK, etc.

 

[Ademisk]

You can do that on your own time, Simna. We're gonna brag for you whether you like it or not.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Phelix08]

Simna you're gonna have to get a lot worse before we stop bragging for you.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

a lot worse huh? here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BJ7XH7NaE

 

[Phelix08]

Crud. Anyone got any backups? Or like a stunt double? or something?

lol I actually watched it now, its still better than me.
err..kindof
ya nvm

 

[Wave⁂]

That vid was... err... you won one match! Go Simna!

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol i stand no chance against this crowd

 

[GildedPunch]

lol.
Hey simna. I showed my bros. the false update of ness and they're like holy **** ness looks badass now!!

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol if only....ness prolly isnt gonna look like that tho....they are prolly gonna make his head even bigger in brawl...lol

 

[Ademisk]

Maybe they'll just get rid of the body entirely. Who needs a body when you've got psychic powers? HeadNess for the win

 

[Phelix08]

Simna, I figured it out. Not only are you amazing at super smash, you're kind enough to let others win on video.
And ya, I only really used sparkles anyways. And the baseball bat would be amazing...floating in midair... Plus that'd probably make you a lot harder to hit. Where do I email Sakurai?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol i dont like being forced to play for the camera....i like to be relaxed and play friendlies regardless of the camera (lol i kinda leraned to do that making TS comedy vids lol)

its kinda similar to the reason why Mow doesnt record stuff(he told me it cause he doesnt like dealing with comments/being judged and stuff)...so yeah its kinda similar....that's why i talk about ppl coming to my house so much and going to tournaments im going too, cause its so much fun^_^

lol for the topic: YYG combo on ICs:

PK Fire Nana, repeat until popo advances on you(feel free to jump and pk fire nana from the other side to confuse popo), get it so popo figures out how to advance right on you as soon as u throw pk fire(he will have to maneuver around the fire, so dont worry about your lag too much^_^)

Take advantage of Popo's solo offensive approach and knock him away, meanwhile catch nana in the very end of the fire and yoyo glitch her...that is all

not too exact for you^_^ you gota figure out yourself when to hit them with pk fire and how to deal with popo^_^ but i can pretty much guarantee you that popo will eventually take an offensive position because if he doesnt then his nana will die(but not DI lol GET IT?^_^)

 

[kenny10]

I would just give up on trying to YYG the IC. It's a lot harder since there's two of them. Even if I can separate them far away from each other, Nana would probably be stupid enough to run into the YYG hitbox before I could equip the Thunder Jacket.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I would just give up on trying to YYG the IC. It's a lot harder since there's two of them. Even if I can separate them far away from each other, Nana would probably be stupid enough to run into the YYG hitbox before I could equip the Thunder Jacket.

That's why you equip the spike jacket first.

 

[Wave⁂]

Can't you equip the star jacket first, too? It'd be quicker.

Off-my-topic: Simna's post had 5 ^_^.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't tell you to shut up, I just mentally question your optimism.

 

[GildedPunch]

some people think star jackets are hard to equip.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol but u should mow....hahahahahah

 

[kenny10]

some people think star jackets are hard to equip.

For me, star jackets are a lot easier to equip than spike jackets.

Side note: Wow, this is getting off topic from the original thread isn't it.

 

[abit_rusty]

Small attempt to get back on topic...sheik's needles gimp my recovery too much...they either hit me during an up+b or hit the pk thunder that shoots out of me, screwing my recovery over anyway.

I enjoy playing Ness but vs Sheik it's such an 'effin pain...

 

[Speedsk8er]

Tailwhipping spacies is funnnnnnnn..... ^_^

 

[kenny10]

Against a Sheik, I find it's a lot easier to recover if you curve the slope (if your playing FD or Battlefield). If not then hope the needles don't screw you over.

 

[Wave⁂]

Or just hope that the invul frames save you.

I sometimes have this recovery issue when trying to curve the slope of FD. I start out okay, but when I get near the ledge, I keep going, and then I'm not only facing the wrong way, I "over-shot" the edge, going too far.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

yeah yeah...you CAN recover thru the slopes, but the thing is you can be edgehogged there....and anyone who knows that you can only make the ledge from those positions can kill you that way

and needles hurt ness lol....i dont even need to say it....when ness is being edgeguarded needleshurt his recovery...your best chance at avoiding them is to recover above the area where needles can be thrown

reasons to like needles tho: PK Fire Starter

 

[Phelix08]

I'm so glad my sheik-main friend is horrible at aiming needles.

Can't you YYG off of needles too (Or am I thinking of something else)? Err, not that that helps you in recovering...but...yeah. Other than that the only respite I've found from needles is comin in at odd angles. But that's hardly foolproof.

 

[Wave⁂]

Nedles on the ground (and arrows) can be YYG'd.

Also, Simna didn't answer. I sometimes have this recovery issue when trying to curve the slope of FD. I start out okay, but when I get near the ledge, I keep going, and then I'm not only facing the wrong way, I "over-shot" the edge, going too far.