Ness' Throws

[BlackMateria7]

I heard a lot about the dacay, but is it separate for ach throw? like if back thow is consstantly used does that decay apply for all the other throws or for back throw only?

 

[Earthbound360]

For individual throws.
Pummels also count.

 

[Lizard]

Just don't use Back throw until about 120.... 135 for heavies like snake wario, etc

 

[FireKirby7]

But it can kill lights at 90% at the edge. :D
Against heavies at 120% I like to uthrow them and PKT juggle.

 

[Uffe]

^^^ I killed Fox around 80% fresh. I think I was near the edge, but not on it. But anyway, the question has been answered already. Usually for grabs, you're better off using all but the b-throw up until later.

 

[:mad:]

Ness has insane grabs, they just vary at different percents. Fthrow gets decent distance at low percents, whereas bthrow gets low distance at early percents. The higher it gets, the better bthrow becomes.

Uthrow's best for damaging, and not decaying your backthrow if you rely on it too much. Dthrow's mainly good to chain an aerial.

A MK main challenged me to a grudge match yesterday, and his CP was Skyworld, I'm not even kidding.

He got 3-stocked because I just grabbed him, and stagespiked every kill. His grabs are exceptional when you use them on a wall.

 

[Uffe]

Ness has insane grabs, they just vary at different percents. Fthrow gets decent distance at low percents, whereas bthrow gets low distance at early percents. The higher it gets, the better bthrow becomes.

Uthrow's best for damaging, and not decaying your backthrow if you rely on it too much. Dthrow's mainly good to chain an aerial.

A MK main challenged me to a grudge match yesterday, and his CP was Skyworld, I'm not even kidding.

He got 3-stocked because I just grabbed him, and stagespiked every kill. His grabs are exceptional when you use them on a wall.

Yes. Certain walls do wonders for Ness. It sounds like he wanted to get you off the stage because that stage isn't exactly great for Ness. But than again, that stage isn't good for a lot of characters unless they have multi jumps.

 

[choknater]

Doesn't fthrow have a fixed knockback?

 

[Cacti]

Only up to a certain percentage. After that, it starts increasing, but not by much.

 

[Lizard]

120 is a good judge for Bthrow, doesn't mean it can;t happen early.

When at the edge, the percentage can be much lower....

Game and watch can be killed at 80 at the ledge.

 

[Earthbound360]

Fthrow by all technicality does not have a fixed knockback, but for reference purposes, you may as well say it does.

It's just pretty much supposed to be the polar opposite of bthrow.

Bthrow has very tiny initial knockback with a humongous growth rate. In contrast to that, fthrow has a huge initial knockback with a very miniscule growth rate.

 

[Dajayman]

Here is how/when I use each throw.

Fthrow is when I am near an edge or if the opponent is above 75%.
Dthrow to at most 50%, less for light-weights/floaters.
Uthrow up until 75%. Then it sends abit too high.
Bthrow at 100%+. My bthrow is always very fresh.
2-3 pummels per 20%, 30% if my opponent is good at grab-releasing.

All of Ness's throws are good at racking up damage, 12% (except dthrow 8%, which can lead to aerials/more damage if used wisely) per throw is not bad at all. Pummels are not so hot at getting damage (pretty sure he has one of the worst pummels in the game, Lucas has the best in the game D:<), but more damage (if very little, *wishes Ness had a better pummel*) is always better and can mean the difference between life and death.

Also, is it true uthrow can kill characters like Jigglypuff?

 

[PK-ow!]

It is said in most places that you can't grab the Ice Climbers, since the other one will **** you in reaction.

But some characters still go for it since they have a quick throw that will also have the thrown climber deal damage to the other.

I was wondering if Ness has such a throw. I've only fought one Ice Climbers player (Ambrose) and I didn't pick Ness.

Considering our speedy dash grab, it would be good if we were a character that need not have this fear.

 

[PMKNG]

It'd only work well if you split the ice climbers apart for a few moments. Such as if one gets stuck in pk pillar and you grab the other one. Something along those lines, other then that messing with ice climbers and grabs I feel is a no-no

 

[Lizard]

Not sure on percentage, but yes ness can kill jiggs and such with Uthrow

 

[Uffe]

Today on Castle Siege I could have lost against this dudes Marth and both of us were trying to throw each other into the blast zone. Fortunately for me, I grabbed him and b-threw him. There was no way he could DI that. Anyway, you can do this with Ness f-throw, too. If you can 0% death your opponent on the front of Corneria, then surely you can do the same on the second phase of Castle Siege or any stage that's a walk off one.

 

[Gaussis]

It is said in most places that you can't grab the Ice Climbers, since the other one will **** you in reaction.

But some characters still go for it since they have a quick throw that will also have the thrown climber deal damage to the other.

I was wondering if Ness has such a throw. I've only fought one Ice Climbers player (Ambrose) and I didn't pick Ness.

Considering our speedy dash grab, it would be good if we were a character that need not have this fear.

I believe dthrow can keep one away if they are caught off guard (the flames inflict damage). If you're aiming for a grab, it's better to separate them first though.

 

[kennypu]

just a side note, against a good person who knows how to DI, ness's backthrow kills Snake anywhere on the stage at around 140-150%. If they know how to DI good, you can be at the edge and bthrow around 130% and they still will not die(with no decay).

 

[Cacti]

I don't think that the fire from Ness' down throw will hit the other ice climber. I've used it in FFA, and it didn't hit another guy right next to me.

 

[Lizard]

As a general rule, we simply do not grab ice climbers unless they are separate.

Sometimes a quick grab to back throw can work, but never pummel an ice climbers.

 

[kennypu]

I don't think that the fire from Ness' down throw will hit the other ice climber. I've used it in FFA, and it didn't hit another guy right next to me.

it does hit, but its not guaranteed they can't do anything to you.

 

[xoxokev]

it does hit, but its not guaranteed they can't do anything to you.

The hit box is very small, and at the center of the fire

 

[Levitas]

Uthrow is less efficient on jiggs than Bthrow for KOs

 

[PMKNG]

I've only uthrow'd for a ko once probably, i was messing around with a friend and not ko'ing him with normal means and he got to a high% so I uthrowed him to see if that would work. o_O

 

[FireKirby7]

I like to uthrow at 120% when I am 2 stocks ahead.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Uthrow is less efficient on jiggs than Bthrow for KOs

Ya, bthrow will almost always kill someone before uthrow will. Don't mistake though uthrow can kill, not till the late 190% on most characters. Unless you are on stages with low ceilings ie. Brinstar(melee), Halberd, Skyworld. Then it'll kill around 140%ish. Keep it in mind, though you won't use it all that often, good for screwing with people.

And woohoo Levitas is a mod finally

 

[Earthbound360]

While Ness' pummel has meh damage output, it is very fast thus good for refreshing throws. It also allows Ness to enforce a ground break for spike/teamwork purposes. You'll be amazed just about how many people cannot force a ground break.

Whats with Levitas and moons anyways?

Dthrow is actually pretty good on the Icys. I've gotten it to keep Nana at bay if shes close enough.

 

[xoxokev]

While Ness' pummel has meh damage output, it is very fast thus good for refreshing throws. It also allows Ness to enforce a ground break for spike/teamwork purposes. You'll be amazed just about how many people cannot force a ground break.

Whats with Levitas and moons anyways?

Dthrow is actually pretty good on the Icys. I've gotten it to keep Nana at bay if shes close enough.

Rapid pummeling actually only counts as one attack towards "un-stale-ing" an attack

 

[Brinzy]

I dunno, I still think that d-throw is kinda lame. I've actually DI'd it myself in such a way where I would bait a follow-up from Ness and punish him accordingly. It's probably better to f-throw -> PKT.

 

[PMKNG]

Yea ive started to see dthrow working less often, idk if theres just more reaction time or people are getting used to Ness but when I dthrow and go for another aerial that isnt fair, usually they can counter with their own aerial.

 

[FireKirby7]

I dunno, I still think that d-throw is kinda lame. I've actually DI'd it myself in such a way where I would bait a follow-up from Ness and punish him accordingly. It's probably better to f-throw -> PKT.

What did you do? Don't want that to happen to me. O_o

People only dodge my dthrow follow ups if they air dodge or their % is too high.

 

[Brinzy]

My mistake.

 

[Brinzy]

Yea ive started to see dthrow working less often, idk if theres just more reaction time or people are getting used to Ness but when I dthrow and go for another aerial that isnt fair, usually they can counter with their own aerial.

Exactly. I think it can still be kinda useful against characters who can't handle fair, but for the most part, I don't use it as much. Anyone know of some better situations where this could be used?

What did you do? Don't want that to happen to me. O_o

People only dodge my dthrow follow ups if they air dodge or their % is too high.

Well it's character specific, but if I'm using Zelda for example, I'll DI up and a bit away, because then I'll be able to fall back while Ness is rising and space a lightning kick through his fair (which isn't retreating, so it gives him a disadvantage). The obvious answer would be to bait my action beforehand, but I find that a lot of Ness players tend to try something almost immediately.

I don't really think this is Ness specific though. I do the same exact thing to Metaknights, Falcos that can't changrab, Marios, Zeldas, etc. It's basically just DIing in such a way that you can respond with your fair, and if it's good, you'll just beat them out.

 

[PMKNG]

Yea I've started to mix it up, and sometimes not even approach after a dair, see what my opponent does and then approach. It's still good at lower %'s, but later on I guess people start Ding better/more cause of the % theyre at.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Try a running usmash after dthrow, at least you'll mix it up a bit, or even just run and shield punish them if they think they know what you will do.

 

[Brinzy]

I've actually found it a bit more efficient to just jump away from Dthrow, making it impossible for Ness to follow-up. Usmash probably works when they expect another throw.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I've actually found it a bit more efficient to just jump away from Dthrow, making it impossible for Ness to follow-up. Usmash probably works when they expect another throw.

I doubt it's impossible to follow up, maybe someone could actually use a full hop instead of a short hop.

 

[kennypu]

If your opponent is the type that air dodges when you dthrow, and they are quite heavy(using snake for example), by dash dancing a little to get the timing, you can pkf right into the path of where they land which will almost always hit unless perfect shielded because they will land/hit the pkf before touching the ground. It might be a little confusing to grasp what i'm trying to say though.

 

[Levitas]

kenny, you can actually PKF and time it to hit them as they get to landing lag. That's a guaranteed hit as long as they decide to land, but the window is small (2 frames for what you're describing)

 

[Excellence]

At what percentage does Ness' BThrow kill Olimar and how should I DI it? Usually, I smash DI downward then DI toward the stage on the control stick and up or down (depending on my percentage) on the C-Stick. I've been living from Ness' BThrow at 126%, is that good or am I failing at my DI?