Ness Play Styles~ How effective is yours?

[oOTjayOo]

I made this thread to learn more about how you all play with Ness. I feel my Ness needs more mixup/ Throwing other styles together into my main style to become a Great player. Oh, and because its been pretty dead here in the making of new post. I hope all of you Ness mains come here to learn more about all of your fellow Nessers <3 If you can help me Develop a certain Style to add to in this thread or update and add things to the styles I have thought of be my guest. Basically tell me what you think of how to play these characters with these styles and what are some diffrent styles you have made up.

PK Style​

This Ness always uses Pk Moves for a setup or some pressure on the right characters. Pk fire > Grab etc. How effective is this style? On what Characters?

-Pros
Getting a Pk Fire in could turn a match around
Pk thunder camping really helps if you look at the extra damage it has given <3
Tail whip is wonderful on certain projectiles
Pk Flash will destroy bad recoveries
PKT2 can turn into a great Reading move/Mind Game move
Magnet Cancel is your Friend
Pk Fire has numerous followups
Full Hop Pk Fires are great pressure tools

-Cons
Pk Fire is Fairly easy to punish if your opponent has good mobility
A missed Pk thunder camp could lead into you getting BADLY punished
Pk Flash is useful only on ocassion
Magnet stalling can be Punished with a character that has great jumps
When pk fire is absorbed or Reflected its a really bad thing
Missing Pk thunder 2 Could get a stock token away from you or badly punished

Look at your Cons and Pros. Think of what to watch out for. This could overall help you to achieve greatness in your Matchups/MUs and style. This Style looks like it related to being used by Comboing. This style is risky, but effective and safe if used the right way.

My Rating 6½/10​

All Air​

This Ness is his name nuff said. This style is about aireal pressure. Usually Fair to pressure Bair to kill and a bit of Dair pokes. Probably some Uairs under platforms and lets not forget Nair Oos.

Pros:
-Great way to pressure a character with low priority
-This style will benifit from fighting Olimar, but remember to be safe.
-Bair is a great kill move.
-Nair Oos is wonderful on characters who pressure close up
-You can Rise you Aireals for surprising cross-ups
-Dair on a jumpy person will probably lead into a Jab lock
-Fairs can lead into jab locks at the right % if your opponent does not Tech
-Bair can lead into jab locks at the right % if your opponent does not Tech
-Uair can Kill at Medium High %
-Nair is a good Gimping tool when rising it offstage. Make sure your able to get back without using PKT2
-Retreating Fair Covers a lot of Distance
-Double Aerial Shuffle is a great AT
*New*-Dair is a great spotdodge reading move
*New*-Rising Fair is a great move to read your opponent who is getting onto the stage

Cons:
-You will be shield grabbed at times by long ranged grabbers
-Marth will destroy this style
-Game and Watch will destroy this style
-You will be pivot grabbed at times if you do not approach carefully
-Some characters don't need aerials to beat your aerials. Example: Snake will Ftilt through some of your Air moves.
-If you are a Bair Killer You may not want to stale it.

Look at your Cons and Pros. Think of what to watch out for. This could overall help you to achieve greatness in your Matchups/MUs and style. Most Ness users play this Way and it benefits. Still watch out.

The characters this works on​

[N/A] Will be updated soon

My Rating 7/10​

Pk Ground​

This Ness uses his ground moves wisley into his other Styles effectively and noticeably. Dtilt trip > Bat, A few jab lock attemps, Utilt follow ups, Ftilt knock backs/ Jab combo crossups/followups.

Pros:
-Utilt setups will help alot on fast fallers
-Ftilt can be a move you use if you have staled you killing moves
-Dtilt does lots of damage over time
-Dtilt setups are worth the try if they happen
-Dtilt can shield pressure a bad grabber
-Jab combos can be canceled into other things at the right moments

Cons:
-Ness is really short ranged
-Since Ness is short ranged some of these tilts may seem useless at times
-Landing a utilt is not easy as it seems
-You need to study Dtilt so you know it will trip.
-Dtilt will he shield grabbed leading to horrible grab releases or grab combos/chains
-Jab combos are pretty hard to cancel because of your crouch canceling animation being long
-Ftilt is near usless somtimes but you can use it to put your opponents offstage
-Utilt can be broken by some high priority aireals Example: Luigi/Mario Nair
-Dtilt gets easily universally punished by the cast if not used right or same for all of your filts

Look at your Cons and Pros. Think of what to watch out for. This could overall help you to achieve greatness in your Matchups/MUs and style. This Style looks like it related to being used by Comboing as surprising crossups. This style should be used where you know its going to work so you wont get punished or you could be risky and read your opponent with these moves. Overall it seems like more of a harder playstyle game to play with Ness while throwing in other moves.

The characters this works on​

[N/A] Will be updated soon.

All Around​

This Ness uses all moves in some way. This way is probably the second best way to the All Air style.

Pros: by Eagleye
- Keep safe options prioritized, while frequently mixing up to promote new options/approaches to situations.
- MINDGAMES, SON!!!
- Acount for all attacks in ness' moveset when taking any action.
- Demonstrates an intense knowledge of not only your own character but every character in the game.

Cons: by Eagleye
- Need to precisely perform all different things interchangeably without flaw.
- involves tons of thought and mental capability to use the mindset to it's fullest.
- need to know of how every attack will work in every situation, which attacks will properly outplay other attacks, and how your opponent can react, then using all your actions based on which works best and which options allow a proper reaction to every reaction from your opponent and every reaction to reactions.

Look at your Cons and Pros. Think of what to watch out for. This could overall help you to achieve greatness in your Matchups/MUs and style. This Style is great for advanced players. In some ways the All air style may be equal. You can execute Ness aireals the best way you could and get far. Executing All of Ness Moves seems advanced and harder for a Begginer. This style is probably to be recommended for People who have played Ness a gooooood long time. Basically put all of your moves to use the best way possible.

My Rating 10/10​

 

[Jalen]

Very nice.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

PK fire style, works on larger characters and shiz, and probably some floaty characters as well.

 

[oOTjayOo]

PK fire style, works on larger characters and shiz, and probably some floaty characters as well.

I think heavier characters are better. Some1 floaty could have an easy time using SDI to get away from Pk fire.

 

[Yink]

(love the picture, I know the girl who draws that, she's an all colored pencil artist) Anyways...if we're going to add pics I want to too haha.

Constantly Changing Playstyles

Yes...my Ness is very weird.

If I'm in a 1v1, I'm an aggressive Ness. I'm fairly technical though, so I will spend usually one of my lives watching whoever I'm fighting, then decide what to do. I try to give a lot of pressure, keep moving and keep good spacing. I do this to limit their options and avoid getting grabbed. I rarely camp, which is most certainly bad in some situations. I'm patient when I need to be though.

---

As for my usage of PK, I use Thunder the most. It's easily one of my favorite kill moves, and you'd be surprised at how many times people fall for it. My only suggestion for that would be:

* Don't be obvious, use the full ~3 seconds of it

---

In teams however, I'm almost always a defensive Ness. I got a fun nickname of "opportunist" because well, I kill people at times that are just perfect for me, terrible for them. While I'm defensive, I constantly watch my partner. I stock tank as well, usually when the match is over and we win, I have the most stocks.

---

That's my Ness in a nutshell, hope it was kind of helpful.

EDIT: Haha! I forgot to say if it's effective or not. I'd say it is very effective...I've won a couple low tiers, some doubles...do okay in singles as well.

 

[oOTjayOo]

@ Yink/Nice Pic .Also is it PKT2? I'm missing some PKT2 in my game. lulz PK flash as well.

 

[Yink]

Yeah it's PKT2, and I actually use PKFL to mindgame. It's a lingering hitbox, so it DOES hit sometimes as someone grabs you, kicks you, etc. Also...for some reason it freaks people out. Probably because no one wants to get hit by it.

You just need some fancy timing.

I'd learn some PKT2 mindgames, it's an effective way to kill, especially if you can tailwhip them into the PKT2. The knockback on it is insane, it's very hard to live from.

EDIT: you stole my picture! :C ...just kidding, glad you liked it.

 

[oOTjayOo]

CAn i use the pic =o its teh sex. Also How would PKT be against snake? Bowser? Ganon or any Super heavy character. or the characters with the largest Model frame.

 

[Yink]

Oh of course you can use it. x3

I can't...explain well how to use PKT2. I can try though. It's all a matter of thinking about where your opponents will "go". As random as people like to be, we all have patterns and set routes with specific moves.

An example of that would be a Fox: dair > usmash. It's a great sequence. You learn to expect it and be aware of it as you fight more fox mains. (<3 Zeton)

For Ness, we can't have that happen as much. If you become very obvious with PKT2 you become a sitting duck. It's very helpful offstage and around platforms/in platforms that are transparent.

Even against some heavy characters PKT2 is still a nightmare. Don't worry about it too much, if they live from it (assuming they might with good DI), then you can fall back with Nair or the Bthrow or even other moves (hoping those didn't get stale).

Does this help you? I'm not an expert or anything. :C

 

[Kole]

I need to use more Usmash and Dsmash.

 

[oOTjayOo]

Does this help you? I'm not an expert or anything. :C

You dont have to be an expert lol. Im just asking you what you see PKT2 as with your eyes on some heavys. Thanks for the info tho. Lol I think ima use PKT2 on Luigi. He Gets the biggest pushback ever from it.

@ Proxy. I think Dsmash is pretty usless in any ness game unless the person rolls alot. Usmash is a good move to me. Usmash Oos may be a good Idea on some Ikes who like to pressure you with Fair or some other characters with Laggy approches or aireals. Things like that

 

[Eagleye893]

Okay, for starters, no move of ness' is useless... Psi magnet has more uses than any of you know!!!

Dsmash is quick to come out behind you. You can easily turn around and use it to catch an opponent offguard or otherwise punish spotdodges.

My gameplay...

strategic mind****!

I have a generally set gamestyle to keep consistent enough and leave every are of my mind covered, but i don't ever follow a set pattern. One time I'll use sh nair or something to dj retreating fair or nair or something and the next I'll go in witha fair or nair to fair das or even just keep on the ground... If I approach on the ground to start with, normally it involves rushing in with shield up, I can switch up to fh pkfire (moving backwards), usmash, nair oos, grab, dashgrab, or even a dtilt sweetspot trip (if not then just one dtilt to immediate nair or grab)... I forgot that on my aerial approach I also add in PSImag extremely frequently and perfectly spaced in order to lure an attack and get back at them for it. Ike is annoying to me with my mindset, because I can't get in... I don't know how. His jabs are too quick. His fair is too long... But I digress.

My advice is to never stick to a set plan of action as to what you are going to do, always think of your other options, and feel free to throw in something that may seem stupid once in a while, cause it just might work (pkflash uncharged > nair/uair is too broke, unless they SDI or are hit at the topmost point...)

 

[oOTjayOo]

Okay, for starters, no move of ness' is useless... Psi magnet has more uses than any of you know!!!

Dsmash is quick to come out behind you. You can easily turn around and use it to catch an opponent offguard or otherwise punish spotdodges.

My gameplay...

strategic mind****!

I have a generally set gamestyle to keep consistent enough and leave every are of my mind covered, but i don't ever follow a set pattern. One time I'll use sh nair or something to dj retreating fair or nair or something and the next I'll go in witha fair or nair to fair das or even just keep on the ground... If I approach on the ground to start with, normally it involves rushing in with shield up, I can switch up to fh pkfire (moving backwards), usmash, nair oos, grab, dashgrab, or even a dtilt sweetspot trip (if not then just one dtilt to immediate nair or grab)... I forgot that on my aerial approach I also add in PSImag extremely frequently and perfectly spaced in order to lure an attack and get back at them for it. Ike is annoying to me with my mindset, because I can't get in... I don't know how. His jabs are too quick. His fair is too long... But I digress.

My advice is to never stick to a set plan of action as to what you are going to do, always think of your other options, and feel free to throw in something that may seem stupid once in a while, cause it just might work (pkflash uncharged > nair/uair is too broke, unless they SDI or are hit at the topmost point...)

Lol Thanks. So your style seems to be bad against Long ranged characters with a quick move? Also Give me some details of what you think some cons and Pros of this may be. Strategic Mind**** for the lulz<3 Never Following a Pattern seems like a Pro or the bread and butter of this style. Also Any one have a Pic of Ness doing a ground move like Dtilt or somthing? Im starting on the Ground Play style.

 

[Eagleye893]

No... I just hate Ike... Only him... He gets on my nerves all the time. Online, ikes destroy ness. Offline, Kirk is insAne...

I hope my attempt at playing melee will increase my ability to SDI out of all his jabs and stuff. Also, his grab is broken...

Pros:
- Keep safe options prioritized, while frequently mixing up to promote new options/approaches to situations.
- MINDGAMES, SON!!!
- Acount for all attacks in ness' moveset when taking any action.
- Demonstrates an intense knowledge of not only your own character but every character in the game.
Cons:
- Need to precisely perform all different things interchangeably without flaw.
- involves tons of thought and mental capability to use the mindset to it's fullest.
- need to know of how every attack will work in every situation, which attacks will properly outplay other attacks, and how your opponent can react, then using all your actions based on which works best and which options allow a proper reaction to every reaction from your opponent and every reaction to reactions.

 

[oOTjayOo]

@ Eagleye Thanks. Any Characters you think this would tear apart? They would probably be characters with a predictable game thats fairly easily punished. It seems that this should be thrown into everystyle scince reading minds is a part of every1s game. The Styles I have listed are ways to read people. Using Aireals, Ground attacks, B attacks, Grabs. Those sorts of things.

Anyway. Would you read characters mostly with Ground moves Pk Moves those sorts of things? I see you like magnet. I could put you there for PK user and your reason why if you wanted.

 

[Robin1613]

My ness is totally aggressive, I tend to fall in a pattern of aerials every so often. Usually being OoS nair, fair/bair, into a retreating dair. the only pk move that i use is pk fire. i may use pkt1 to pressure characters with predictable recoveries like Ike. and i rarely use pkt2, if it is thrown out there its because im 100% its gonna land. only thing i can really offer is to not fall into attack patterns (i gotta work on that) cause an experienced player will punish you.

 

[oOTjayOo]

My ness is totally aggressive, I tend to fall in a pattern of aerials every so often. Usually being OoS nair, fair/bair, into a retreating dair. the only pk move that i use is pk fire. i may use pkt1 to pressure characters with predictable recoveries like Ike. and i rarely use pkt2, if it is thrown out there its because im 100% its gonna land. only thing i can really offer is to not fall into attack patterns (i gotta work on that) cause an experienced player will punish you.

Would you be an Air Ness? If so why do you think it helps being this type of style.

 

[Bartolon]

All-Around =)

 

[1337-Zero]

I would love to contribute to this thread later, but right now I'd like to thank oOTjayOo for assisting our boards with a metagame-enriching topic.

Thank You! I've been waiting quite sometime for this.

 

[oOTjayOo]

I would love to contribute to this thread later, but right now I'd like to thank oOTjayOo for assisting our boards with a metagame-enriching topic.

Thank You! I've been waiting quite sometime for this.

Thanks. Your welcome

@ Bartolon

Your all arounder? You don't have a certain move you use mainly? I would under stand if your all around but some styles would be better on certain characters. For example the All air on Zero Suit.

 

[milesg2g]

Ya know what? this is actually something I'm dealing w/ right now. Since the release of brawl I've only played with Ness and Ness only. I've also played a large part in the wifi scene and developed a bit of a routine playing style due to wifi limitations. After going to a few offlines I've altered my style a bit. Everytime I go to a tourney I alter my play style for the best. The last tourney I went to I learned a few different playstyles I'm proud to say I can do. However, around the end of Jan. I've picked up other characters to play w/ in FFA's,teams, and what not. I've grown found of their playstyles and everytime i go back to Ness, when i face my opponent I completely freeze up. I still win but it's not the same because I literly don't know how I will approach the match

 

[Chuee]

I throw out random aerials and ****.
Best playstyle eva.

 

[Eagleye893]

I agree with barto: all arounder. For me, that means strategic mind****, but it may mean something different to other people.

 

[oOTjayOo]

I throw out random aerials and ****.
Best playstyle eva.

^lol

@Miles
Many people say. Ness is good with with his air moves and air moves only. He has more things to me. Some hidden tricks and stuff. Aireals may not be the best things in some situations, but it is overall his best trait. I think I would recommend Air Ness as your main stratagy and switch it up a bit with some more of his moves. It's what ever you think is best to the way you play though.

 

[xoxokev]

I wouldn't say that I have one certain style of play. I would have to agree with Bartolon and some others in here. All-around is best because it gives you a lot more options, and helps to keep you unpredictable. Using one certain style of play is disadvantageous in my opinion. I always try to mix up my play style to throw off my opponent, in a smart way of course. I wouldn't do moves that are easily punishable just for the sake of mixing it up. The only time that it is okay to keep doing the same stuff over and over again is if you are trying to condition your opponent. That way, when your opponent thinks he/she knows what you are going to do next, you can easily punish.

Respectfully, in my opinion, this thread would better serve NOT as a way to label players with what kind of Ness style they use, but rather as a way to display all the different styles of Ness and helping players incorporate all of Ness' play styles into their game.

All in all, good thread. And thanks for contributing to the metagame. I agree with 1337-Zero, I have been waiting for something like this as well.

 

[oOTjayOo]

@xoxokev

Thanks I'll switch up the thread a bit. Also should I keep the characters it works on part?
That could help people figure out what to do and on who.

 

[Yink]

Oi. This will be very helpful to new Ness mains or secondary users. Much love. You'll get a free sig from me <3

I can never seem to be totally all-around. I change to fit the situation though and that seems to work well. I often wonder though if that's what stops me from getting top 10 most of the time, I mean my Ness is considered a success by many people.

All in all, like I said, my Ness constantly changes. It works wonders for my partner, Joker (The Snake main) and we almost always do well.

As for what was said above, I'd probably say that Ness has BETTER aerial moves than some of his ground moves but I mean the moves on the ground aren't all terrible. He's got a nice, fast jab (and a jab-lock), a good utilt, ...you can dtilt > grab because of his fast grab. Ness is mid-tier for a reason. That shouldn't even matter though, it's all about how you can play a character. A character can suck, but you can play them great.

 

[-LzR-]

I disagree with everything about Rob... Rob vs Ness is one of my most known Match ups... If Ness uses PK flash, I laugh, it will never hit Rob. And PKthunder can be faired. Also, PKfire sucks, I can DI out of it before you can even move. PKness is very limited. I would say Air Ness is the best. Do it.

 

[oOTjayOo]

I disagree with everything about Rob... Rob vs Ness is one of my most known Match ups... If Ness uses PK flash, I laugh, it will never hit Rob. And PKthunder can be faired. Also, PKfire sucks, I can DI out of it before you can even move. PKness is very limited. I would say Air Ness is the best. Do it.

Its mostly just my assumption. Pk Flash is ok against Robs recovery. If you knock him off the stage in the right angle where he has to move up with recovery and not side ways Pk Flash is a nice idea. Pk thunder gets faird? We dont need to hit you head on with pk thunder. We could tail whip you or just move to the right spot while you recover. Ness users still do Pk fire even with SDI from it. Try to get the most damage in you can.

Air Ness is not always the best. If Ness were playing a character with better air game I would not try to go in with air moves. Pk Ness is not limited. Pk fire leads to lots of things. Pk Thunder camping gives possibilities.

 

[Bartolon]

Lol at using alot of airgame vs ROB. Bad idea dude xD
Aerial PK fire when ROB try's to recover can help some I guess..
PK flash doesn't look a good option to me sorry Jay =/

Don't know much about this MU though XD

 

[Chuee]

PKF kinda becomes useless once the opponent realizes they can SH over grounded PKF and PS both grounded and FH PKF =/

 

[oOTjayOo]

Can some1 help me talk about how usefull any Pk move is on rob? OR any other of the cast.

 

[MrsSaturnandWatch]

PK Rockin (Style) for me :O

 

[1337-Zero]

Theoretical stuff here:

PK Flash- R.O.B can't airdodge out of his recovery :/ I don't see a single reason why PK Flash isn't useful.
PK Thunder- Any character that falls slowly is a joke, from what I remember R.O.B falls pretty slowly.
PK Fire- You can basically call this move PK13370, I don't think I've ever gone a stock without using it once XD. Not saying you should use it that way, but just saying I know the move in and out. I don't really see how R.O.B could horribly punish this...He's kinda slow, but he could get a nice hit in. He's big enough that it might be hard to get out, and he'll want to be in the air so spiking him when he's in the pillar can set up a nice jab lock.
PSIMAG- Just for reference, jump cancel is toooo good.

 

[Eagleye893]

You don't know the magnets till you've played me 1000x....

 

[Bartolon]

Oh rlly. I wanna see that for myself

 

[oOTjayOo]

Thanks 1337-Zero. Uh I can post your Summary under Robs Part for the Pk Style if you want.

 

[Eagleye893]

Oh yeah?!?!

Well I haven't played brawl srsly in almost 4 months (tournament or smashfest-wise, but I've played last about a month ago...), so i have to regain all of my skillz... Melee is getting my mind all f'ed up. It's not as much of a mental game and more of a "learn all this stuff so that you are a robot and can do this consistently, then start thinking" type of thing. I'm not one for practicing till I'm blue in the face. I'm absolutely not a person for studying material (if I don't know it, I don't know it...). I would rather jump into the action, be presented material, and be able to work with that material however I see fit in order to have it benefit me... Hence why I like brawl more.

Melée is hella fun, but that's after months/weeks of practice, which I don't have.

 

[1337-Zero]

Thanks 1337-Zero. Uh I can post your Summary under Robs Part for the Pk Style if you want.

It was mainly brainstorming, but if anyone with serious matchup experience can verify my claims then go ahead! :D

 

[Eagleye893]

I feel that the grouping aspect that this thread has ended up being is going to distract from the major idea of shifting towards an ideal playstyle. Just a suggestion, but I think it would be best to instead have several aspects that make up part of one's playing of the game and rate to what intensity ness is most benefitted for each, while also giving a description as to what that ranking entails...

For example: mindgames I would rate 10/10 for the essential style of ness, because you need to be able to read your opponent in every situation. Ness isn't meant to just rush in or stay set to a specific defensive strategy, so the only way around those things is to completely analyse your opponent, their character, and calculate all things to counteract that stuffs.