ness discussion

[The Star King]

Hmm well I stick jump 99% of the time(for regular jumps and djc). Once I clear the platform I just do my 2nd Jump + air. Keep practicing and eventually clearing the platform will become easier and easier.

I would specifically recommend uair/dair, since you don't need to z-cancel. Maybe it's just me, but I find it easier that way because otherwise, I sometimes land on the platform TOO quickly and end up shielding from pressing the R/Z button a tiny bit too long. I do the same with Yoshi and his Uair (his uair does require z-canceling, but only in a specific part around the middle of the animation, and you're only going to be landing near the start of the animation when you do this technique).

I personally use dair instead of uair for Ness. It might be my imagination, but I think uair may delay the landing a tiny bit because the animation raises your body, or something.

 

[firo]

So sometimes I try experimenting with a pk thunder edgeguard by jumping off and hitting myself so I intercept my opponent's recovery. It's hard to do but is it viable? I'm not sure.

Also most of the time just doing a quick djc nair and then fully stick double jumping to uair works to kill floaties off the top instead of risking getting the throw on the second platform.

I'll keep pushing my way of DJCing. Just move your hand up a little and tilt your thumb down towards you so you hit c-right, c-down, and a in one press. It's very easy and results in an extremely fast DJC without multiple movements.

 

[Peek~]

So sometimes I try experimenting with a pk thunder edgeguard by jumping off and hitting myself so I intercept my opponent's recovery. It's hard to do but is it viable? I'm not sure.

It can be, I usually come from the top and aim downwards. I hit DK and Yoshi the most with it.

I personally use dair instead of uair for Ness. It might be my imagination, but I think uair may delay the landing a tiny bit because the animation raises your body, or something.

Ive noticed something like that as well

 

[ciaza]

James was doing a similar thing about a year ago. I found it worked most often on Hyrule coming from below so you can slide up the wall and get them if they were going for a ledge grab.

Though I'm quite certain other edgeguard techniques would be a lot for viable most of the time.

 

[X ta C]

James was doing a similar thing about a year ago. I found it worked most often on Hyrule coming from below so you can slide up the wall and get them if they were going for a ledge grab.

Though I'm quite certain other edgeguard techniques would be a lot for viable most of the time.

agreed i did that in a tournament at my college noone new what happened and i did it to numerous team lol.

ok so question about the djc in the middle of djcing when they get around 60-70 the start flying in the air do you uair and then dair or just dair and catch them and keep them going higher and higher.
normally id just dair dair dair and around 60 just pkthunder and hit them on their way down since its more predictable

 

[Peek~]

ok so question about the djc in the middle of djcing when they get around 60-70 the start flying in the air do you uair and then dair or just dair and catch them and keep them going higher and higher.
normally id just dair dair dair and around 60 just pkthunder and hit them on their way down since its more predictable

I have no idea what you are trying to say friend

 

[X ta C]

I have no idea what you are trying to say friend

i reread it and i was confused lol nvm

 

[Sangoku]

How do you approach as Ness? I would either DJC uair/fair, but that doesn't look great... Sometimes even dash attack works better.

 

[ciaza]

Learn his extended horizontal approach, and combine it with dair/bair.

 

[Sangoku]

Yeah that's what I meants by DJC. But I was wondering which aerial worked best with it. Looks like I was doing two wrong ones if you say dair and bair are best.
Thanks =).

 

[ciaza]

Well, I think ballin argued uair once, but I can't recall. Form my experience I'd say the two I mentioned work best, especially dair. Sets you up for many things.

 

[Sangoku]

Ok thanks, I'll try to incorporate more dair approaches.

 

[The Star King]

Ballin argued against uair being a good approach. I was the one arguing for uair lol.

Uair beats a ton of aerial approaches, due to the invincibility on the head and huge range. You can run under somebody in the air and DJC uair to beat whatever they throw out. However, ballin says that's a defensive maneuver, not an approach.

 

[ballin4life]

I agree that uair is good for that maneuver though. Extended horizontal dair/bair are really good against people that don't know how to play against ness.

The other thing I feel like I see Peek~ doing is approach from above with dair ...

 

[The Star King]

Peek likes to full hop dair -> fast fall dair.

 

[firo]

Uair works well against taller/heavier characters like falcon, or any character that likes to approach from above that isn't kirby. An advantage of Uair is that it can lead to easier combos especially if ness is on the ground and is too slow to follow the opponent if he techs. I would argue it also depends on percentage...the more percentage the opponent has the more viable dair becomes as an approach to result in easier weak nair/throw combos. I find that approaching from above with dair works sometimes but is dangerous since it often needs to be timed around uptilts or upsmahes. For tricky situations a combination of horizontal extended bairs with the threat of a dash attack or a quick running djc has to suffice. Also it won't lead to any combos but don't neglect fair as an approach. Not that great of a move but not many players are used to a ness being aggressive.

 

[mysalsatrain]

If you actually know how to use ness he's great!

 

[RickySSB]

PK Fire!!!!

 

[Battlecow]

If you actually know how to use ness he's great!

Oh god

Another one

 

[Sangoku]

By now, I hope you've prepared a nice text to send him .

 

[weedwack]

what is the purpose of canceling pk magnet over the ledge? been confused about that for awhile.

 

[ciaza]

To stop your vertical movement when recovering earlier, to grab the ledge faster.

 

[weedwack]

used when coming up on a ledge from underneath?

also wanted to discuss some ledge guarding tactics against fox specifically. his flexible recovery, quick second jump, and high falling speeds make it tricky.

one thing ive had success with is bluffing a spike to draw out a fair, then grabbing once he lands.

peek- i noticed in some of your games (i was impressed) you faced away from the ledge, jumped directly over it, pk thundered the opponent, then grabbed the ledge. have you had much success with this tactic against fox?

 

[ciaza]

used when coming up on a ledge from underneath?

Yes.

also wanted to discuss some ledge guarding tactics against fox specifically. his flexible recovery, quick second jump, and high falling speeds make it tricky.

I'm not sure if "ledge guard" here was used by accident instead of "edge guard". Guarding the ledge specifically against a fox should be easy, just djc a spike as Fox is about to grab it.

If you meant edge guard, there are different maneuvers depending on all the variables such as if fox is recovering high or low, what stage it is, etc. If you would like to be more specific on there I would love to help.

peek- i noticed in some of your games (i was impressed) you faced away from the ledge, jumped directly over it, pk thundered the opponent, then grabbed the ledge. have you had much success with this tactic against fox?

I am not Peek, but I would not recommend it if the Fox is recovering. Fox's Up B destroys the bolt. If the Fox is very far away however I can see it as useful.

 

[weedwack]

i meant edge guard, sorry -_-

ok heres a more specific question-

on maps with platforms near the ledge, like dreamland and yoshi land, when should i edgeguard on the ground and when should i edgeguard on the platform? the platform gets you higher and makes it easier to spike, but limits your ability to dsmash or grab

 

[ciaza]

It's hard. If the fox is coming from above his best advantage is he gets too choose if he wants to float over more inland of the stage, or fast fall and grab the ledge, or fake going inland before grabbing the ledge.

I think it is best to go on the platform. If the fox tries to grab the ledge you should be able to get a quick spike in before he grabs it, and if he tried to go inland you should be able to get a grab or at the very least an aerial.

 

[Peek~]

peek- i noticed in some of your games (i was impressed) you faced away from the ledge, jumped directly over it, pk thundered the opponent, then grabbed the ledge. have you had much success with this tactic against fox?

Yes I do. 2 things youre trying to do here

1. Intercept 2nd jump
2. Interrupt Firefox startup

Basically force him low so he doesnt do that "lol where am I gonna fall"
I know Fox can go though the PK thunder ball but I dont know if he can go through the tail

 

[The Star King]

There's a difference between ledgeguard and edgeguard? I've thought they were they same for years >______>

Basically force him low so he doesnt do that "lol where am I gonna fall"

That's a very good way to describe it lol

 

[asianaussie]

that's actually the most succinct way of describing it i've ever seen

 

[weedwack]

back to approach- im getting the hang of approaching with horizantal djc while moving backwards, but am having trouble moving forwards with it. i guess thats just due to the nature of ness' second jump.

so basically- how do you approach while facing the enemy and when should you do it? is it possible to effectively horizantally djc forwards?

also, thanks for the whoopin star king. i figure the quickest way to get better is to get **** on.

 

[Battlecow]

The quickest way to get better is actually to switch to a character that isn't ness. JUST THROWIN' IT OUT THERE.

 

[The Star King]

so basically- how do you approach while facing the enemy and when should you do it? is it possible to effectively horizantally djc forwards?

Backwards is better most of the time IMO. I only really use forward DJCs if I'm DJCing uairs to beat an aerial approach or whatever.

also, thanks for the whoopin star king. i figure the quickest way to get better is to get **** on.

No problem, but I'm not sure about that. I've heard a lot of people say playing someone only slightly better than you is the fastest way to improve. IDK though.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Ness is fine to start out with.

 

[ciaza]

A lower tier character is probably better to start out with for the long run, as it forces you to learn to get good spacing, whereas someone like Kirby/Pikachu is much more forgiving when you make mistakes.

 

[The Star King]

^ I started with high tiers and I turned out pretty good =/

Maybe that's why I turned out aggressive instead of defensive like everybody else

I think Fox probably helped my overall Smash game the most

 

[ciaza]

I started out with Pikachu myself, and I believe I turned out alright too. Definitely not saying that if you don't you won't be a good player, but I reckon it might speed up the process of becoming one - if only a little.

Samus helped my game out a lot personally on the road to stardom. I miss the days of being absolute rubbish at the game and having so much to learn. I swear Smash was so much more fun those days.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah learning a game is what's most fun to me. Seeing your progress compared to other people and whatnot.

I lose interest in games I don't improve in. Like Pokemon - after I felt like I hit a slump in all three of OU, UU, and Ubers, I stopped playing :/

 

[Sangoku]

There is always room for improvement in pokémon. In the first gen games at least (dunno how it works with the others). If you want perfect stats for a given pokémon you have like one chance out of a few millions.

On topic, are there any other cool Ness channels/videos other than Peek's so I could learn stuff?

 

[The Star King]

There is always room for improvement in pokémon. In the first gen games at least (dunno how it works with the others). If you want perfect stats for a given pokémon you have like one chance out of a few millions.

I played on Shoddy Battle >_>

Although there actually is room for improvement now, thanks to 5th Gen

 

[asianaussie]

Real men RNG.

JUST KIDDING NOBODY HAS THAT SORT OF TIME

Don't play 5th gen, it's stupid. Play the Pokemon TCG, it's far more balanced lol