ness discussion

[asianaussie]

there's a reason i didn't mention it lol

hur dur chaingrabs and 2-hit combos

 

[Sempiternity]

Brawl combos have been reduced to "hits in a row without getting hit by your opponent".

And even that doesn't hold true all the time. :/

 

[Dancin Jesus]

his uptilt is amazing!

 

[Peek~]

Official Ness moveset power rankings

1. Dair
2. Uair
3. Grab
4. Utilt
5. Bair
6. Dsmash
7. Usmash
8. JAB
9. Nair
10. Fair
.
.
.
9001. Magnet/Absorb
9000000000001. Fsmash

 

[th3kuzinator]

o_o putting that nair so low.

o_o putting that bair higher than dsmash

everything else looks good

 

[The Star King]

Ness's Uair is my favorite move

Bair is definitely better than Dsmash.

Jab is too high.

PSI Magnet is awesome in teams.

 

[ballin4life]

PSI Magnet can work in singles against Fox or Mario... you just have to be far away enough.

 

[The Star King]

Or you can use the edge to cancel the PSI magnet lag after absorbing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoefI8nlM_E#t=9m28s

I kind of want to know why Peek put jab over Nair and Fair.

 

[blaze3927]

and dair over uair????
if your good enough to combo fair/nair with ess then they instantly become better than jab three fold.
if your not then i could see why jab is higher

 

[DMoogle]

I can definitely see d-air over u-air. Ness' d-air is arguable the second-best spike in the game, and possibly the best tech-chasing move in the game.

 

[Korrupshen]

Ness DJC aerial shield break to PK thunder is just sexy

 

[th3kuzinator]

Am I the only one who thinks that dsmash is freaking beast?

 

[Blade689]

better then pika's forward smash in my book for the edge guard. lol.

 

[blaze3927]

I can definitely see d-air over u-air. Ness' d-air is arguable the second-best spike in the game, and possibly the best tech-chasing move in the game.

Dair:
best tech chaser in the game
Great for spiking
weak at approaching most characters from above
weak at approaching most characters from the side
Great for shield breaking

Uair
Great to spam/juggle heavies upto %50 region.
Great combo starter into nair/fair/usmash/utilt
Great coverage from above approaches.
good coverage from side approaches
near perfect for approaching most characters from below
good for approaching some characters from side
Great for shield breaking

imo uair>dair

 

[ballin4life]

wtf at dair<uair for approach

 

[blaze3927]

wtf at dair<uair for approach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFTBcGk8X34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmyiXMwGIlQ
<my head is a lot bigger than my foot derp

 

[The Star King]

wtf at dair<uair for approach

wtf at saying wtf ar dair<uair for approach

 

[ballin4life]

Yes, uair can be used to "approach" when they are above you (I would usually call this a defensive move rather than an approach, but whatever), but dair is very good when they are below you too. It's actually better in some ways because when you are above someone you can vary the speed of your approach by fast falling.

And for approaches from the side dair > uair as well because of the better hitbox when you do it with Ness's extended horizontal DJC.

 

[The Star King]

Uair has a better hitbox :/

 

[ballin4life]

uair does not have a good reverse hitbox (trades hits too much) and Ness's horizontal djc is much better when used in reverse. It's also better when used from above than below

 

[The Star King]

Erm, the reverse hitbox for uair is way better than dair. Not only is the hitbox larger, but his entire head is invincible.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5238/nessuair.gif
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6572/nessdair.gif

 

[blaze3927]

and most utilt's/uairs beat dair anyway i.e approaching from above not a good option.

 

[ballin4life]

Erm, the reverse hitbox for uair is way better than dair. Not only is the hitbox larger, but his entire head is invincible.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/5238/nessuair.gif
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6572/nessdair.gif

No, because the hitbox moves forward as you are doing the horizontal DJC. By the time you are at the end of it the hitbox is on the wrong side.

and most utilt's/uairs beat dair anyway i.e approaching from above not a good option.

Approaching from above gives you way more options than approaching from below. But anyway, I'm actually talking about approaching from the side, but using Ness's horizontal DJC to get above them and hit them with the dair.

 

[Peek~]

I kind of want to know why Peek put jab over Nair and Fair.

Mainly for its pressure followups/antigrab(though shieldjump+quick spike is better)

Peekjab uses:

Jabgrab
Jab -> Grab (After the 1st hit[offguard], works after the 3rd as well[techchase or catch])
Jab -> Quick jump spike (Pressure[offguard], possible to repeat)
Jab -> Spike/Nair (1st hit knocks them off platform. Example )

Jab combo somewhat(still testing %s)
Spike -> Jab(3rd hit ONLY) -> Spike if edge of platform (example)

Of course jab has to connect in order to do anything of this. Otherwise PREPARE TO BE GRABBED if youre past the jabgrab stage


Fairs only real use is Fair chains which can sometimes be started by Nair. Nair can lead to spike/bair after a spike/usmash/utilt. It also has some tent potential but being a dreamland player...you know

Im actually thinking I should have put PK Thunder over Fair

 

[DMoogle]

and most utilt's/uairs beat dair anyway i.e approaching from above not a good option.

In practice, this rarely happens (except for vs. Falcon's u-air or Kirby's u-tilt).

Trading hits IS fairly common, but Ness is pretty good at gaining the upper hand immediately after trading hits.

 

[The Star King]

No, because the hitbox moves forward as you are doing the horizontal DJC. By the time you are at the end of it the hitbox is on the wrong side.

Dair is still also a mediocre horizontal DJC option with it's meh hitbox. Bair outclasses both of them for horizontal DJC, anyways, so it doesn't matter.

Horizontal DJC isn't the only way to approach, either. You can often run under an opponent in the air and start DJC uairing under them, which beats most aerial approaches due to the ridiculous hitbox and the head being invincible. Didn't you see the posted vid of Sima?

 

[ballin4life]

Yes ... but in my experience people don't just run into uairs often. They will outspace them from the side or time an approach between them. I'm watching an old video of mine (here) and Pika's grab goes right through djc uair spam.

I guess it depends on your definition of "approach". I wouldn't consider playing defensively with djc uairs to be an "approach".

 

[blaze3927]

i would consider going to the point i think they will be at next, and attacking is considered an approach.
f.e dash djc uair. makes a great approach compared to djc dair:
ill see if i can find my old ness videos and reupload them. people dont usually just run into djc uair, but it can be used in many ways
a pivot uair/bait uair/dash uair/pivot dash uair. because its so fast and has great range/coverage.

and @ moogle this actually happens a lot, ness ditto's utilt kills the dair from above/kirby utilt/pika utilt/falcon usmash/falcon uair/pika uair/link utilt/fox ftilt.
the only way it would trade hits is if ness finishes his dair about his body height off the ground, which would mean either quite a bit of ending lag, or quite a bit of startup, any higher/lower and the speed at which a utilt comes out would beat it.
its actually rarer to see it trade hits.

 

[Peek~]

Official Ness Matchups I like Power Rankings

1. Vs Yoshi
2. Vs Luigi
3. Vs Samus
4. Vs Juggs
.
.
.
.
.
9000. Vs Kirby
9001. Vs Falcon
9002. Vs Fox

 

[ciaza]

I think Mario should be up there. It's a challenge and it's fun to fair chain him.

 

[Blade689]

i don't think falcon is the worst match up for ness. I would say that falcon can be stronger depending on the stage, but ness can amply defend himself. I would say his lesser match ups would be pikachu an fox for sure.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

I think Mario should be up there. It's a challenge and it's fun to fair chain him.

Agreed, sometimes it gets to be a pain in the ***. (_0_)

 

[DMoogle]

Falcon isn't that bad. Pika is way worse.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Pika... lol
That's so obvious that it doesn't even have to be mentioned.

 

[The Star King]

i don't think falcon is the worst match up for ness. I would say that falcon can be stronger depending on the stage, but ness can amply defend himself. I would say his lesser match ups would be pikachu an fox for sure.

Maybe you should re-read the title of that chart. It was ranking the matchups in terms of enjoyment, not how good they are for Ness.

 

[Peek~]

Im out of ranking ideas, ill come up with something soon I hope

Anyway I stopped 3 kirby fsmashes with ftilt couple of days ago, felt awesome

 

[wiscompton]

tit's give me so many issues. usually when i know i need to use one i'm too caught up in the moment and it turns into a fsmash. lol, i just can't calm down enough to use them effectively.

 

[blaze3927]

tit's give me so many issues. usually when i know i need to use one i'm too caught up in the moment and... i just can't calm down enough to use them effectively.

<script type="text/javascript">
function toggleMe(a){
var e=document.getElementById(a);
if(!e)return true;
if(e.style.display=="none"){
e.style.display="block"
}
else{
e.style.display="none"
}
return true;
}
</script>

<input type="button" onclick="return toggleMe('para1')" value="Toggle"><br>
<p id="para1">
bahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhahahahahahaha
</p>

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

^^ at least use a collapse section<_<

@Wiscompton even I know what you meant... But tit's... Really?
That makes it even funnier. lol

 

[Luco]

I can see how samus would be an easy match up: I've seen her charge up ball of energy deflected many a time. You can also deflect foxs's, but you are never fast enough to get his second one, so he can get quite annoying. Best bet with fox is to get whatever small hits on him you can, and either get lucky and baseball bat him closer to the end, or grab him. I like to play on 200 percent dmg however, so i just grab him and he's a dead fox.