ness discussion

[The Star King]

Peek, I noticed when I played you that you never sweetspot the ledge with the PSI Magnet.

 

[Peek~]

Peek, I noticed when I played you that you never sweetspot the ledge with the PSI Magnet.

I only recently started doing it

Wow I swear, with ness, I find something new and fun to experiment with everyday

 

[firo]

One thing I've always wondered with ness is whether its possible to drop from the ledge into a down-b sweetspot without going through the whole jump circle.... it would seem to be possible but I can never do it in a match.

 

[ballin4life]

Pretty sure you can do that with upB. Dunno about downB though.

 

[The Star King]

One thing I've always wondered with ness is whether its possible to drop from the ledge into a down-b sweetspot without going through the whole jump circle.... it would seem to be possible but I can never do it in a match.

Nope. There's a brief period of time after you let go of the ledge where you can't grab the ledge, and by the time that period of time is over Ness has fallen a bit too far down to grab the ledge (if you didn't jump at all). You can do it with PK Thunder, though, because he falls slower during the PK Thunder animation.

 

[Gammelnorsk]

how do you ness guys deal with falcon when ur playing ness

 

[blaze3927]

Dreamland:

lots of uair, dont bother wih bair ,
uair x2- nair- spike if you can djc well
utilt- grab- edge guard with upB, and spike.
utilt- uair-usmash-utilt chains, if close enough oto edge throw in a spike for a finish
good tech chases.

 

[Battlecow]

Ness vs. Falcon on DL:

-Wacky djc shenanigans
-throw
-Dair for the spike

For the adventurous:
replace step three with "Edgeguard with yoyo".

You will still lose. But as far as I've been able to tell, this is the #1 way of doing it in the ness community.

 

[Gammelnorsk]

time for djc infront of someone to baseball bat smash mindgames

 

[Blade689]

falcon isn't hard for a strong ness player. It comes down to who can stage guard better for 90% of the lives, but the ability to negate falcons recovery with a well timed down smash is better then spiking. Plus we have pk thunder to hold a person at bay, and ruin a direct path to the stage. Which forces either a predictable landing, or a late up b that meets the bottom side of my yo yo string.

 

[asianaussie]

ok, assume you're a strong ness player, what happens when you come across a strong falcon player?

the matchup isn't purely determined by edgeguarding prowess...

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

the matchup comes down to who can get the first combo starter off, falcon will have an easier time with this and edgeguard ness afterwards no problem.

 

[blaze3927]

falcon approaching ness can be a bit homo, especially if the ness just times djc uair with a few bairs well,
falcons shorthop is too big for ness imo, and usmash/grab can also be beaten by uair. on dreamland ness just has to stay down the bottom to have a pretty even chance of approaching. then he can easily rack up 50-80% with uair/usmash/utilt chains.
get a grab then its all over.

 

[ciaza]

A falcon approaching solely with Usmash/grab won't go far sure, but a good falcon will make good use of platforms and bair for approach on ness.

 

[Peek~]

Damn

Spoiler

fox lasers

Damn

Spoiler

fox tilts

Damn

Spoiler

fox jab

Poke city ;_;

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

does crouching after doing a djc dair make a difference?

i do a djc dair, and still hold down after being done, and then i do it again and it seems extensively low to the ground compared to when i don't crouch.

Spoiler

my timing is balls for djc's anyway

 

[ciaza]

Well since you're jumping after you crouch the crouch is out of the equation. I'd say that what you are doing is actually doing the djc dair quicker since you aren't using extra time releasing the joystick after each djc, since you're just holding it down all the time.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Damn

Spoiler

fox lasers

Damn

Spoiler

fox tilts

Damn

Spoiler

fox jab

Poke city ;_;

Now I have the feeling that you hate Fox.
xD

does crouching after doing a djc dair make a difference?

i so a djc dair, and still hold down after being done, and then i do it again and it seems extensively low to the ground compared to when i don't crouch.

If you jump right after fast enough, you won't even really be crouching.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

yeah sometimes i even 'cancel' (i don't really cancel it i just do the attack again) the crouch.

however, i may be doing it fast but as i said my timing is wacked up.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

the crouch makes it slower cause you go into a crouch animation first

 

[Luco]

I didn't read everything, but the first part i read was completely contrary to how i used to play. Back when i played SSB as often as i play SSBB now, ness used to be my favourite character. I used to be so good i could always get him in the exact direction i wanted, even if i was under the stage. Most people don't like him because a lot of people can't control his PK thunder that well, which is a vital part of his moveset, but trust me, after using him for a while, he's pretty much unbeatable(although i guess that goes for all the characters).

 

[th3kuzinator]

lol before this conversation gets started again.

Luco, trust ME, an AVID ssb64 player, once you get to a certain level people can edgeguard ness almost 100% of the time. Its not about having to control his pk thunder, we are talking way beyond that level, its about a lot of other bad things about his recovery and pretty much its almost 100% predictability.

I will say no more.

 

[DMoogle]

I've always said that Ness is top tier at low level play, and I continue to stand by that.

 

[th3kuzinator]

And I agree with you. Throw and dair all you need.

 

[dandan]

And I agree with you. Throw and dair all you need.

i think it is throw>upb>dair

i just find it astounding how this conversation keeps returning.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

I didn't read everything, but the first part i read was completely contrary to how i used to play. Back when i played SSB as often as i play SSBB now, ness used to be my favourite character. I used to be so good i could always get him in the exact direction i wanted, even if i was under the stage. Most people don't like him because a lot of people can't control his PK thunder that well, which is a vital part of his moveset, but trust me, after using him for a while, he's pretty much unbeatable(although i guess that goes for all the characters).

6 pages back...
just read them and then come to say what you know/think.

 

[Luco]

It's a lot of people arguing about whether he is over on underrated. I think i'd know a whole heap of this if i knew what the tier list actually is and where i can find it. It seems to me as if it's a list of which characters are better than others in certain situations or some such.

As for the rest of it..... I think that a whole lot of people seem to not want to play as him. I assume you have evidence that a good ness player can be easily beaten, but in case you don't, then try getting really good as him, and see how he goes against most characters. My brother has played SSB for longer than i have, and whenever he tried different ones, he almost never beat me. I don't know all that much about game mechanics, so you can beat me there, i'm just speaking from a personal point of view.

 

[DMoogle]

I assume you have evidence that a good ness player can be easily beaten

A good Ness player cannot be easily beaten because a good player cannot be easily beaten. General skill level is much more important than character ability (much more so in Smash 64 than in Melee and Brawl).

Current tier list for high level play: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250563

 

[ciaza]

Far out I agree with dandan it's bloody ludicrous how this keeps coming back. Where's Fireblaster when you need him?

 

[th3kuzinator]

well at least its with new people, not the people arguing the same point over and over again.

We had a giant discussion about it in my categorized tier list thread. We should probably take excerpts from that and add it to the smash index. Would probably be useful

 

[Luco]

A good Ness player cannot be easily beaten because a good player cannot be easily beaten. General skill level is much more important than character ability (much more so in Smash 64 than in Melee and Brawl).

Current tier list for high level play: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250563

Thankyou for the argument(that's my point of view anyway), and thankyou for the list. Only thing: I still don't really get what it means, and why there are groups, and why there are random letters instead of numbers....

 

[DMoogle]

Feel free to bump the thread to ask questions (hopefully the people who answer them will remain polite), as this thread is getting slightly off topic, but I'll answer your questions here anyway.

What it means: Higher on a tier list means that a character is generally better, which BASICALLY means that if two equally skilled players fought against each other, the person who used a character higher on the tier list will have better results than the person who used a character lower on the tier list.

Why there are groups: I assume it's to emphasize gaps, e.g. the gap between Jigglypuff and Ness is significantly smaller than the gap between Jigglypuff and Luigi. I might be wrong with this assumption though.

Why there are letters instead of numbers: Not sure.

Why the choice of letters is S, A, B, C: Not sure, but a quick Google search led me to this, which is probably the reason: http://www.giantbomb.com/s-rank/92-2962/

 

[asianaussie]

How would i go about doing an extended horizontal djc on keyboard (100% range)?

 

[Luco]

I wonder who would be my skill level... I'd really like to verse that person one day.

 

[dandan]

I wonder who would be my skill level... I'd really like to verse that person one day.

don't limit yourself.
i say, come play online (get an adapter if you are used to the n64 pad) and play people from all skill levels.
the fastest way to improve is playing people who are better than you that can give you advice (though if the gap is huge then it might not be that beneficial).

 

[blaze3927]

How would i go about doing an extended horizontal djc on keyboard (100% range)?

1-press windows button
2-scroll up to internet explorer/firefox/opera/google chrome
3-press enter
4- select the url box
5- type www.ebay.com.au
6-buy a ****ing usb controller adapter
7-:3

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

don't limit yourself.
i say, come play online (get an adapter if you are used to the n64 pad) and play people from all skill levels.
the fastest way to improve is playing people who are better than you that can give you advice (though if the gap is huge then it might not be that beneficial).

That's totally right, but never play with someone you know you can beat with 1 stock out of at least 3...

How would i go about doing an extended horizontal djc on keyboard (100% range)?

1-press windows button
2-scroll up to internet explorer/firefox/opera/google chrome
3-press enter
4- select the url box
5- type www.ebay.com.au
6-buy a ****ing usb controller adapter
7-:3

LOLz!!!
That'd be like the best answer for that.

 

[ciaza]

He has no reason not to now he's finished year 12 so school work isn't going to get in the way for him anymore. He's just being a jew.

 

[dandan]

He has no reason not to now he's finished year 12 so school work isn't going to get in the way for him anymore. He's just being a jew.

ahem...

10pcs

 

[asianaussie]

i lol'd dan

ciaza and co are just mad because im still matching them with my inferior controls

my brother wants to invest in a controller for his fifa so i might get on and use that