Needle Camping

[thesage]

I'm terrible at needle camping. Anybody have any advice? When I charge needles should I sh charge then stop charging before I land? Should I just stand in place and charge? Is it worth giving up respawn invincibility to charge needles?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

what are you trying to accomplish with your needles?

 

[thesage]

Rack up damage at low percents so I don't have to worry about cc'ing. I don't want to only rely on grabs and fair.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you can charge your needles on the ground or in the air. if you charge them they will probably approach you to make you stop. no matter how many needles you have, you can fullhop needle (land on the platform) then fall and fair for a good 20%.

if you just want to camp, work on running around the stage with needle cancels. platforms are really nice for this. if you get more than 2-3 needles you can stand and shoot, which does a decent amount of % but is kinda obvious.

hope that helps. any other questions?

 

[thesage]

I guess that's it lol. Ty

Edit: well actually, I'd like to see some vids of people using Needles effectively. I'm going to be watching some shiek vids today so I know what to do with her lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ask soap for some vids, he is pretty good with his needles.

 

[Teczer0]

Just charge them here and there when you have breathing room. Throwing 2-3 is more than good enough anyway.

Remember not to throw them recklessly though, the cool down time is something players can punish you for. Make sure you are far away enough before you throw needles. (On the ground obviously)

I remember soap taught me a trick I use occasionally now. He charges needles in mid-air for whatever reason. But instead of throwing them in air he keeps charging it and throws it on the ground. He does it in a frame perfect way and of course I don't but it still helpful as a fyi.

 

[ChivalRuse]

The thing about needle camping is that you can't really do it with needles alone. You have to be able to cleverly integrate platforms, and well placed fairs and bairs in order to be truly effective. The key is to use needles to bait approaches, so it's of the utmost importance that you're knowledgeable in how to punish reckless approaches as brutally as possible.

 

[Teczer0]

After playing for a while and changing up some of my strats I realized actually that platform camping is not as effective as I once thought. Not in sense that most people think of it as anyway.

I've been using platforms for protection more than anything else. I rarely think about trying to go on top of it anymore partly because of sheik's pretty awesome aerials/tilts. So I usually don't try to run around on platforms and hope people rush at me .

Needle camping is more about getting your opponent to run at you. That should be it. If you use to depend on racking up damages to like 40 or more. You're either playing a very angry player, or frankly a bad one.

/opinions

 

[thesage]

I was just asking if it was possible to get like 40 damage solely from needle camping. It seems like needles have a lot of potential to me, but I'm just so awkward at using them. I have to change my whole flow and stuff.

I read some stuff in the matchup thread and some people were actually suggesting shiek could outcamp falco so i thought there was this amazing needle camp game I never knew about or something lol.

So all I should rely on needles is to make the person approach? That's pretty much what I've been doing already lol. Guess I can just try to be more creative.

 

[Teczer0]

I was just asking if it was possible to get like 40 damage solely from needle camping. It seems like needles have a lot of potential to me, but I'm just so awkward at using them. I have to change my whole flow and stuff.

I read some stuff in the matchup thread and some people were actually suggesting shiek could outcamp falco so i thought there was this amazing needle camp game I never knew about or something lol.

So all I should rely on needles is to make the person approach? That's pretty much what I've been doing already lol. Guess I can just try to be more creative.

Needles do have some good potential but dealing such a large percentage with needles alone kinda suggests you're playing against reckless play. Personally I wouldn't depend on it thats my suggestion.

Although I haven't been keeping up too much in the match up thread I very highly disagree with trying to outcamp a falco. Its however a debatable topic, though I don't feel that needles have such tremendous power. As a FYI if you throw 6 needles and falco shoots a laser and you are far from each other, yes your first needle will cancel the laser and the rest WILL go through. But if you're far enough falco can land and shield all the needles before it reaches him.

 

[thesage]

Needles do have some good potential but dealing such a large percentage with needles alone kinda suggests you're playing against reckless play. Personally I wouldn't depend on it thats my suggestion.

So I shouldn't expect to be able to do that. Gotcha.

Although I haven't been keeping up too much in the match up thread I very highly disagree with trying to outcamp a falco. Its however a debatable topic, though I don't feel that needles have such tremendous power. As a FYI if you throw 6 needles and falco shoots a laser and you are far from each other, yes your first needle will cancel the laser and the rest WILL go through. But if you're far enough falco can land and shield all the needles before it reaches him.

Yea that pretty much happens to me. That's why I was asking for people's advice lol.

I just really hate the Falco matchup cuz he cc's everything til 70% and then afterwards you ****. Just trying to figure out a faster way to get to that that isn't tech chase grab (I'm also working on that right now).

 

[KirbyKaze]

There's no secret to Falco you have to grab him, knock him over, and kill him and keep him out in such a manner that prevents you from being either combo fodder or laser fodder.

Your ground game is reduced because it's Falco, so you have to use aerials more than usual and work through his spam.

Needles are good to give him the illusion of needing to full jump or instant double jump to hit you (and against some Falcos, you can even convince them to approach), but in a fullstage camp he always wins if he stays patient and safe.

 

[thesage]

I tend to use aerials more than most shieks anyways. Can't he cc the aerials though?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Do them so you won't be hit by CC shenanigans.

You have range and lots of stun because all your aerials (sans Dair) are fairly meaty.

 

[soap]

I was just asking if it was possible to get like 40 damage solely from needle camping.

lol, i guess you could if you are really really patient im not, u use it to draw them to you in a fairly obvious way, then store your charge and **** them somehow

although i find it very easy to always sneak in one full charge per stock, easy to do if you can read when your opponent will dash away.

the trick i was telling tec about has alot more variety than what he said, and that wasnt even the one i told him.

what u do is..... you short hop to space an aerial, fair or bair, u can read that before u close in they can dash away and will likely try to dd grab your aerial. instead of aerial, u fastfall and tap b (while in the air) this starts an aerial needle but due to the fastfall u hit the ground during the startup and it turns into a standing needle. if u had a full charge u likely just hit them in the back with a full charge as they ran away.

(only useful with a bunch of needles, otherwise u r better off doing an empty sh run away, waveland back, or dj away)

no tricky timing necessary from a shorthop, just tap b after the fastfall. if u do it from a fullhop u have to hold b a split second then release.

u can do this from bair spacing too by fastfall reverse needling (and they usually wont expect needles out of your bair)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTvZcmyg2QY#t=2m45s

thats the vid i made a while ago when i figured out the stuff, its just a matter of getting the timing down of fastfalling and pressing b, or rolling down and to the other side to fastfall reverse, and there are alot of applications and variety.

like u can fastfall hold the charge and then just store it for instance

 

[Kyo Kusanagi]

You know what I say to needle camping, either learn how to dodge or power shield it. That's what I do to campers period and I learned how to stop camping because I used to be a camper myself until i man-ed up and started chasing after my opponents.

Remember, ANY move can be countered.

 

[soap]

Remember, ANY move can be countered.

u can't counter grabs...

powershielding needles is 2 pro btw

my friend does this to me, it looks so silly

 

[XIII ways to die]

double post on accident sorry

 

[XIII ways to die]

u can't counter grabs...

powershielding needles is 2 pro btw

my friend does this to me, it looks so silly

on the contrary you can counter grabs. you can make a grab have no effect. just have to have fast fingers. but it not that hard really

i dont realy like camping to much cuse it givesthe oppnent to much time to figure out a way around it.
the only time i camp in a mach is a friendly one when im figuring a way to perfectly tech to counter or whatever. but needle camping i think is a bad idea but if you can use it like that more power to ya.

 

[soap]

i dont realy like camping to much cuse it givesthe oppnent to much time to figure out a way around it.
.

the point is to learn how people will try to get around it and find ways to counter their approach now that u have a good idea that they will in fact approach

that counter thing was a dumb joke that u did not get...

 

[XIII ways to die]

oh mybad didnt know.

 

[soap]

my bad for making the terribly old joke

 

[thesage]

I like camping so it gives me time to think about my opponent. Also it adds up damage to him and forces him to approach which I like to punish.

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

lol just keep pressing b and hope your opponent gets annoyed enough to start making mistakes