FrozenRoy
Smash Lord
I've not posted comments lately and thus links to my rankings, so a reminder to find them here: https://smashboards.com/threads/lucas-is-in-the-brawl-general-discussion.108741/page-5#post-2976419
Alex Jones' Worst Nightmare (Ribby & Croaks
MasterWarlord
)
Ribby and Croaks is a behemoth of a set and gets straight to it with a pretty elaborate and in-depth two character tagging mechanic that allows the other frog to attack alongside the main playable frog. Normally only seen in the likes of Pokemon Trainer sets, this is an interesting way to go about it, and I do quite like how it is a very simple and concise way to work a partner set together. The even/odd stock thing is kiiinda odd, but I've brainstormed sets like this before and it is pretty tricky to deal with, so I'll consider it acceptable.
One thing I do want to point out, though, is that the way this mechanic works means that in an even stocked match, you're going to spend a good chunk of the match playing a solo frog unless you dominate and 2-stock the opponent. And unless R&C is constantly 2-stocking opponents, which would likely mean the set is overpowered, that means solo frog is going to need to be interesting on its own in addition to all the inevitable combo moves. Reading the set helped assauge some of this doubt due to the Specials and Smashes working well with a solo frog, but I do wonder if the set would function better with an Ice Climbers style of just having both die when the stock ends.
The Slot Machine Down Special is really cool. There's been sets with projectiles before, but I can't think of any with this kind of dedication to moving platforms or moving platform-traps, and they offer up some interesting gameplay options just with their design. I also do feel like having a big flashy Special which is basically mostly usable while you have two frogs is interesting and the slot machine is the obvious choice for it given it is when the two frogs go into a combiend phase in Cuphead. I can also imagine having both the active and inactive frog using their slot machines facing each other for some projectile bullet hell, which is fun to imagine. Side Special is a very competent/strong bullet hell move. The frailty of the Fireflies is balanced by Croaks being able to throw them out while inactive and thus being able to pressure the foe to keep them from easily doing so. The ability for, say, combos off the parrying (and another way for frogs to save each other) goes along with the foe being able to parry for their own combos and to flatout easily avoid this move. And both of these importantly feel good to use both when you have your own frog and when you're all alone and can just throw them out. The most I could nitpick is that Ribby's range seems a bit low on the fireballs and that it should specify what level of Mega Man F-Smash charge as IIRC range increases with charge on it.
Wouldn't the ending lag of the aerials basically make it impossible to swing on each platform and Up Special to them as Croaks? The Up Special has some pretty solid uses on the foe, the platform stuff is solid although I question the usability of it in general and I feel it may have been more fun to let them spider-man sling around the entire stage/pull themselves to the ground and the interaction with the slot machine feels very natural and cool to me, it's a pretty straightforward pocket but the way it combines with the platform play to make a dangerous zoning play is quite nice. The firefly interaction is good too, nothing to write home about but good. It's overall a pretty nice use of a Yoshi Neutral Special kind of animation.
Forward Smash is also really cool, the Forward Smash itself feels like it has strong uses on the inactive frog and works as a roll/ledge covering kill option for a solo Ribby, but the Slot Machine interaction is rather natural and ends up creating a fun and unique bullet hell scenario while putting some high tension in as Croaks really needs to do something or else he'll get punished. I like how the nature of Ribby and Croak's multihits are practically opposites, Ribby being almost impossible to escape while Croaks easily drops foes. I feel like the wind hitbox could also be utilized for Ribby to go faster and more aggressive which is a nice bonus, with how well the frogs can go off stage creating a long lasting wind hitbox IS somewhat worrying though, but it is only at D3 Inhale speed so I imagine it is fine?
Ribby Up Smash is clean and effective, a solid move for the playstyle by itself with a simple but highly flowing interaction with the platforms, Up Special swallowing and general gameplan. Croaks Up Smash is also good, although I feel the massive all or nothing Ribby + Croaks Up Smash should have a bit more punishability to it given the base Up Smash is implied to have little ending lag and the move has tremendous power. The slobber on Dowm Smash increasing dash speed by "1 full unit" is absurd and should be edited immediately. 1 full unit is more than the difference between Charizard (9th, 2 units) and Robin (Last at 58th, 1.15 units) and like the difference between Sonic (3.5 units) and Captain Falcon (2.32 units), this feels like a crazy high boost. Aside from the slobber the Down Smash still feels like the weakest move so far by a good amount, they're both fine moves but not nearly as inspiring as the other ones and the Ribby + Croaks interaction is pretty eh.
One thing the Ribby and Croaks throws should discuss: How do you command the other frog without just using a throw, given a directional input is required? Do you just do it after the throw, which is fine but would be noted as slower than being able to do so simultaneously? The F-Throw mentions spawning fireflies long before the throw but given it is a Side Special you would need to be in a position not to Back Throw from the side input or start it beforehand or something, right? Some explanation on the more exact mechanics of this would be nice. F-Throw is mostly neat, a bit basic on its own but the fact that solo frogs can eat projectiles for it means that it still has enough uses with solo frog, the fireball ending lag cancel should probably just be removed though given how randomly specific it is and how it is not consistant with any other fireball parries in the set (as said by the move itself).
Back Throw's animation is legitimately bizarre in the firefly coming out, but it fits pretty well with the cartoon-y set logic and the move itself is pretty interesting. I don't imagine you will eat a lot of fireflies to make that particularly useful, but the interaction with Ribby is more common and is actually helpful, although I will note all these ways to eject Ribby in the grab game somewhat cheapen the danger of eating Ribby in the first place. Gotta say, though, I am NOT a fan of the Up Throw. The animation feels off compared to the other "tacky" throws, it's the only one that doesn't fit well with being a slot machine, the effect feels awkward and really annoying to deal with/pretty forced for a frame trap, suicide KOing feels like a bad idea to put into this set given how much they want to not have one die and I feel like the way it interacts with the parry fireball would be really annoying, it's like a less terrible version of the old meme Willy Wonka "input ban" where you're forcing them to cancel which sounds like it'd be annoying to play against. If it was less direct it would be less of an issue, but this throw forces them right on it.
Down Throw is...sure a thing. The base move is neat, albeit perhaps on the stronger end, but the balance of the "stupid" Down Throw is iffy to me. One thing I am already worried about is that Ribby & Croaks seem really strong to the point of potentially being a balance issue and the Down Throw can be very spooky when considering the frogs can also swallow opponent's projectiles, which potentially leads into a lot more damage than the frogs could normally output. And their own projectile game isn't that weak to begin with, perhaps giving too much reward for a simple grab on a character who also is psuedo-2v1ing the opponent to me. I will say the actual effect is neat and I enjoyed the part before that a good deal as well.
'
Neutral Aerial is good, not a ton to say but it is a very fitting melee move with a fun referential animation that feels like it fits their playstyle. The differences between Ribby and Croaks are nicely made to be impactful but not so much so that they become too different. Forward Aerial coming out so fast is pretty scary given how much they can recover and their off stage game, also with how much the end lag is stated to be I don't know how well they can tongue to a platform after, kinda eh move. Back Aerial is also...okay, I like the spacing bit between the arm and the fist, but it doesn't feel like it fits into the playstyle as much, I feel like Croaks should get some solo comboability from the double arm hit which would also add some more use to it for the solo frog, it's solid enough overall but not inspiring. I like the juggling of the Up Aerial and the differences between the two frogs for aerial combat, but the actual interaction is kinda eh, still the base Up Aerial fits into their platform game well. The Down Aerial, though, is really fun. A combo stall than fall is something I am surprised we do not see more often and I'm a fan of Greninja's Down Aerial, in addition though the differences between the two frogs are really nicely done here, and the mixup between the Down Aerial and Down Special is nice, not to mention stuff like the platform bouncing and overall air-to-ground comboness fits their playstyle quite well.
The Jab is actually really cool, I like how the delayed third hit plays into it all, especially considering hitboxes will be thrown out a good deal to deal with the other frog and potentially pop the balloon punch. It also is a delightfully cartoony animation perfectly befitting Cuphead. Ribby's Dash Attack is pretty fun and fits well with how their combo game works, Croak's Dash Attack is...eh, doesn't really feel like it adds much of anything to the set really. Forward Tilt is a solid, worksman-like move that fits well and has some unique angling tricks to it as well. Up Tilt is also solid, fits into the playstyle well, it is another solid move that fits into and helps enhance the playstyle but isn't some amazing solo move or anything. Down Tilt is...quite a bizarre move to end the set on, I don't see how it adds much to the playstyle as a Down Tilt they want to specifically miss a bunch of hits on to get the most value of doesn't feel like it particularly flows or adds much, they already have moves kind like this (Jab instantly comes to mind) but done better and I feel the tongue should just be able to eat them given how much the tongue will be eating that is odd anyway.
Overall, Ribby and Croaks have a lot to like. The tag mechanic is pretty well done and they have for the most part quite strong Specials and Smashes (Down Smash is kinda eh) that form a strong core for the rest of the set to play off of, with some various solid aerials and standards with a few standouts (Neutral Aerial, Jab, Down Aerial) and some more meh ones. The grab game was hit or miss to me, but the misses were not the worst aside from Up Throw, while I feel like the hits were pretty solid. I do worry about the balance of this set: Ribby and Croaks have high damage output, strong combo potential, their KO percentages are not that bad, they have intense stage control and projectiles, plus a large amount of interactions that add more and more to it, to me it feels like they are really strong and potentially overwhelming. They also have a strong gimping game and are healing heavyweights as well. The balance issues are quite strong. I feel like that along with some various moves I disliked (Up Throw especially) or worried me (Down Throw for example), some worries with the potential of having too much solo frog time and perhaps not quite as intense of melee drag it down some...but only some, because overall, the set is still great.
Alex Jones' Worst Nightmare (Ribby & Croaks
MasterWarlord
)Ribby and Croaks is a behemoth of a set and gets straight to it with a pretty elaborate and in-depth two character tagging mechanic that allows the other frog to attack alongside the main playable frog. Normally only seen in the likes of Pokemon Trainer sets, this is an interesting way to go about it, and I do quite like how it is a very simple and concise way to work a partner set together. The even/odd stock thing is kiiinda odd, but I've brainstormed sets like this before and it is pretty tricky to deal with, so I'll consider it acceptable.
One thing I do want to point out, though, is that the way this mechanic works means that in an even stocked match, you're going to spend a good chunk of the match playing a solo frog unless you dominate and 2-stock the opponent. And unless R&C is constantly 2-stocking opponents, which would likely mean the set is overpowered, that means solo frog is going to need to be interesting on its own in addition to all the inevitable combo moves. Reading the set helped assauge some of this doubt due to the Specials and Smashes working well with a solo frog, but I do wonder if the set would function better with an Ice Climbers style of just having both die when the stock ends.
The Slot Machine Down Special is really cool. There's been sets with projectiles before, but I can't think of any with this kind of dedication to moving platforms or moving platform-traps, and they offer up some interesting gameplay options just with their design. I also do feel like having a big flashy Special which is basically mostly usable while you have two frogs is interesting and the slot machine is the obvious choice for it given it is when the two frogs go into a combiend phase in Cuphead. I can also imagine having both the active and inactive frog using their slot machines facing each other for some projectile bullet hell, which is fun to imagine. Side Special is a very competent/strong bullet hell move. The frailty of the Fireflies is balanced by Croaks being able to throw them out while inactive and thus being able to pressure the foe to keep them from easily doing so. The ability for, say, combos off the parrying (and another way for frogs to save each other) goes along with the foe being able to parry for their own combos and to flatout easily avoid this move. And both of these importantly feel good to use both when you have your own frog and when you're all alone and can just throw them out. The most I could nitpick is that Ribby's range seems a bit low on the fireballs and that it should specify what level of Mega Man F-Smash charge as IIRC range increases with charge on it.
Wouldn't the ending lag of the aerials basically make it impossible to swing on each platform and Up Special to them as Croaks? The Up Special has some pretty solid uses on the foe, the platform stuff is solid although I question the usability of it in general and I feel it may have been more fun to let them spider-man sling around the entire stage/pull themselves to the ground and the interaction with the slot machine feels very natural and cool to me, it's a pretty straightforward pocket but the way it combines with the platform play to make a dangerous zoning play is quite nice. The firefly interaction is good too, nothing to write home about but good. It's overall a pretty nice use of a Yoshi Neutral Special kind of animation.
Forward Smash is also really cool, the Forward Smash itself feels like it has strong uses on the inactive frog and works as a roll/ledge covering kill option for a solo Ribby, but the Slot Machine interaction is rather natural and ends up creating a fun and unique bullet hell scenario while putting some high tension in as Croaks really needs to do something or else he'll get punished. I like how the nature of Ribby and Croak's multihits are practically opposites, Ribby being almost impossible to escape while Croaks easily drops foes. I feel like the wind hitbox could also be utilized for Ribby to go faster and more aggressive which is a nice bonus, with how well the frogs can go off stage creating a long lasting wind hitbox IS somewhat worrying though, but it is only at D3 Inhale speed so I imagine it is fine?
Ribby Up Smash is clean and effective, a solid move for the playstyle by itself with a simple but highly flowing interaction with the platforms, Up Special swallowing and general gameplan. Croaks Up Smash is also good, although I feel the massive all or nothing Ribby + Croaks Up Smash should have a bit more punishability to it given the base Up Smash is implied to have little ending lag and the move has tremendous power. The slobber on Dowm Smash increasing dash speed by "1 full unit" is absurd and should be edited immediately. 1 full unit is more than the difference between Charizard (9th, 2 units) and Robin (Last at 58th, 1.15 units) and like the difference between Sonic (3.5 units) and Captain Falcon (2.32 units), this feels like a crazy high boost. Aside from the slobber the Down Smash still feels like the weakest move so far by a good amount, they're both fine moves but not nearly as inspiring as the other ones and the Ribby + Croaks interaction is pretty eh.
One thing the Ribby and Croaks throws should discuss: How do you command the other frog without just using a throw, given a directional input is required? Do you just do it after the throw, which is fine but would be noted as slower than being able to do so simultaneously? The F-Throw mentions spawning fireflies long before the throw but given it is a Side Special you would need to be in a position not to Back Throw from the side input or start it beforehand or something, right? Some explanation on the more exact mechanics of this would be nice. F-Throw is mostly neat, a bit basic on its own but the fact that solo frogs can eat projectiles for it means that it still has enough uses with solo frog, the fireball ending lag cancel should probably just be removed though given how randomly specific it is and how it is not consistant with any other fireball parries in the set (as said by the move itself).
Back Throw's animation is legitimately bizarre in the firefly coming out, but it fits pretty well with the cartoon-y set logic and the move itself is pretty interesting. I don't imagine you will eat a lot of fireflies to make that particularly useful, but the interaction with Ribby is more common and is actually helpful, although I will note all these ways to eject Ribby in the grab game somewhat cheapen the danger of eating Ribby in the first place. Gotta say, though, I am NOT a fan of the Up Throw. The animation feels off compared to the other "tacky" throws, it's the only one that doesn't fit well with being a slot machine, the effect feels awkward and really annoying to deal with/pretty forced for a frame trap, suicide KOing feels like a bad idea to put into this set given how much they want to not have one die and I feel like the way it interacts with the parry fireball would be really annoying, it's like a less terrible version of the old meme Willy Wonka "input ban" where you're forcing them to cancel which sounds like it'd be annoying to play against. If it was less direct it would be less of an issue, but this throw forces them right on it.
Down Throw is...sure a thing. The base move is neat, albeit perhaps on the stronger end, but the balance of the "stupid" Down Throw is iffy to me. One thing I am already worried about is that Ribby & Croaks seem really strong to the point of potentially being a balance issue and the Down Throw can be very spooky when considering the frogs can also swallow opponent's projectiles, which potentially leads into a lot more damage than the frogs could normally output. And their own projectile game isn't that weak to begin with, perhaps giving too much reward for a simple grab on a character who also is psuedo-2v1ing the opponent to me. I will say the actual effect is neat and I enjoyed the part before that a good deal as well.
'
Neutral Aerial is good, not a ton to say but it is a very fitting melee move with a fun referential animation that feels like it fits their playstyle. The differences between Ribby and Croaks are nicely made to be impactful but not so much so that they become too different. Forward Aerial coming out so fast is pretty scary given how much they can recover and their off stage game, also with how much the end lag is stated to be I don't know how well they can tongue to a platform after, kinda eh move. Back Aerial is also...okay, I like the spacing bit between the arm and the fist, but it doesn't feel like it fits into the playstyle as much, I feel like Croaks should get some solo comboability from the double arm hit which would also add some more use to it for the solo frog, it's solid enough overall but not inspiring. I like the juggling of the Up Aerial and the differences between the two frogs for aerial combat, but the actual interaction is kinda eh, still the base Up Aerial fits into their platform game well. The Down Aerial, though, is really fun. A combo stall than fall is something I am surprised we do not see more often and I'm a fan of Greninja's Down Aerial, in addition though the differences between the two frogs are really nicely done here, and the mixup between the Down Aerial and Down Special is nice, not to mention stuff like the platform bouncing and overall air-to-ground comboness fits their playstyle quite well.
The Jab is actually really cool, I like how the delayed third hit plays into it all, especially considering hitboxes will be thrown out a good deal to deal with the other frog and potentially pop the balloon punch. It also is a delightfully cartoony animation perfectly befitting Cuphead. Ribby's Dash Attack is pretty fun and fits well with how their combo game works, Croak's Dash Attack is...eh, doesn't really feel like it adds much of anything to the set really. Forward Tilt is a solid, worksman-like move that fits well and has some unique angling tricks to it as well. Up Tilt is also solid, fits into the playstyle well, it is another solid move that fits into and helps enhance the playstyle but isn't some amazing solo move or anything. Down Tilt is...quite a bizarre move to end the set on, I don't see how it adds much to the playstyle as a Down Tilt they want to specifically miss a bunch of hits on to get the most value of doesn't feel like it particularly flows or adds much, they already have moves kind like this (Jab instantly comes to mind) but done better and I feel the tongue should just be able to eat them given how much the tongue will be eating that is odd anyway.
Overall, Ribby and Croaks have a lot to like. The tag mechanic is pretty well done and they have for the most part quite strong Specials and Smashes (Down Smash is kinda eh) that form a strong core for the rest of the set to play off of, with some various solid aerials and standards with a few standouts (Neutral Aerial, Jab, Down Aerial) and some more meh ones. The grab game was hit or miss to me, but the misses were not the worst aside from Up Throw, while I feel like the hits were pretty solid. I do worry about the balance of this set: Ribby and Croaks have high damage output, strong combo potential, their KO percentages are not that bad, they have intense stage control and projectiles, plus a large amount of interactions that add more and more to it, to me it feels like they are really strong and potentially overwhelming. They also have a strong gimping game and are healing heavyweights as well. The balance issues are quite strong. I feel like that along with some various moves I disliked (Up Throw especially) or worried me (Down Throw for example), some worries with the potential of having too much solo frog time and perhaps not quite as intense of melee drag it down some...but only some, because overall, the set is still great.
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