My thoughts on why Advance Techniques were removed....

[Lavos]

I think ATs were taken out simply because they wanted to make a new game.

I seriously doubt that Sakurai really cared that we took Smash and made it competitive. If anything i would bet that he's happy! To see his game taken that far, to see it become this popular, and to see that he made something with this much depth. Hell, I'd be proud if I was that man! I think ATs are gone because he wanted to make a new game! Was Melee nothing more than Smash 64+? No! The two games play completely differently. I think the air dodging system and L canceling were changed because he didn't just want to make Melee+. He wants a new, more aerial based Brawl, so that's what he's going to make. I doubt it has anything to do with the competitive community at all.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I think ATs were taken out simply because they wanted to make a new game.

I seriously doubt that Sakurai really cared that we took Smash and made it competitive. If anything i would bet that he's happy! To see his game taken that far, to see it become this popular, and to see that he made something with this much depth. Hell, I'd be proud if I was that man! I think ATs are gone because he wanted to make a new game! Was Melee nothing more than Smash 64+? No! The two games play completely differently. I think the air dodging system and L canceling were changed because he didn't just want to make Melee+. He wants a new, more aerial based Brawl, so that's what he's going to make. I doubt it has anything to do with the competitive community at all.

QF'thefreaking'T!!!

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

"omfgscrubs cry moar"

You play(ed) Gunz: The Duel?

To be on topic... We'll see when Brawl comes out whether the game truly lost its depth or not.

 

[Sandwich]

Tl;dr yays.

 

[Rx-]

Sakurai didn't remove AT's, he just replaced them, so that new people would have a chance at being the best. And he also wanted to make the game easier for people with slow fingers. So he made the new AT's much eaiser to perform.

 

[veil222]

@ Monshu, yeah, I played GunZ... I was always the guy who refused to bow (sword dash shotgun switch spam), and used the rifle/revolvers and got 5:1 K/D's by slaughtering bowers cause they always forget their feet arent protected.

 

[Aceleeon]

ahhh it feels good

i agree with the consensus of NOT having wave dashing. Im sure weve all complained about it b4 with our freinds and what not. and IM so glad i have more ppl who see the 'ligt' on this wavedashing thing. but as a designer lookin at the game id DESTROY WDing asap becauser

-the thousands of Man hours poured into not the logic and physics of the game, but the walk/run cycles alone for each charecter are now worthless/undermimed thanks to WD

- out of the 20+ charecters you got on the game, the only ones your audeince (or even ppl considering starting smash bros) is seeing is 5. and of those 5 charecters only 45% of their moves are used, and those charecters look hella funny just moving around on stage, would make me hurt cause my job as a designer has now been exploited.

-the games intention was to be a fighting game, and in the martial arts and fighting realm you have run, walk, punch, kick, grab, throw...seizure slide on the ground without moving your feet at all? wait....

-Fatty and goofy charecters now have their footing back. which =more diverse fighting, more usage of all the moves.

im really preachin to the choir here, but can i get an AMEN for nixing WD? please i need some love on this one.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

This just in :

No one's played the full version of brawl, and we have no idea what the advanced techniques all are yet, nor do we know all the characters, stages, or which falcon combos are the sexiest. (yeah falcon isnt confirmed, but we all know he's the update that EVERYONE is waiting for now )

There will be new advanced techniques, and only a handful of the ones in melee were removed.

To the newbie players continually spouting your elitist garbage about the removal of wavedashing and button pressing based cancelling ensuring you a 100 percent victory rate over people who are incredibly good at melee :

You're wrong. You're still going to lose to good players because you have horrible mindsets towards improving. And johns/excuses like ''The game wasnt meant to be played like such and such'' and the word ''glitch'' in reference to technique(s) that have been proven useful.

Smash is about so much more than wavedashing. If DYLAN_TNGA can admit this at this point, you should be able to aswell.

 

[Pookiez]

i agree with the consensus of NOT having wave dashing. Im sure weve all complained about it b4 with our freinds and what not. and IM so glad i have more ppl who see the 'ligt' on this wavedashing thing. but as a designer lookin at the game id DESTROY WDing asap becauser

Don't assume... I'll tell you that the first time I saw a wavedash, I was like holy crap that's awsome how do you do that? I surely didn't complain about it... especially since me and a friend were beating the people who introduced us to AT a long time ago.

 

[Pookiez]

Smash is about so much more than wavedashing. If DYLAN_TNGA can admit this at this point, you should be able to aswell.

So you are going to play brawl now huh? btw it's not like c. falcon had to wavedash much >_>

 

[Aceleeon]

As far as WD goes, its not a skill, its definaley a glitch. I mean look at it. what does it look like, and does it feel natural. in a game that mimcs the martial arts and fighting, do you see any fighters/Martial artists out there who Wavedash?.... its a glitch. we really gotta acknowledge that.
but learning how to use the glitch to your advantage is great for your game play, however, there is this thing that happens when you start to get good with it and hey maybe even enter a tourney. Its called "Eff all your other charecters and join the WD zombies (fox, falco, marth, falcon, shiek,samus). If we dont see this to be true, show me a Pro Bowser putting Ken in a jam. Show me two ppl who play w/o charecter counters. I digress, These Pros are good, but not w/o a huge crutch that is the wavedash. But that is the way of competitive play. WIN, not with honor or fairness, if its in there you WIN. sucks i know. but thats why they are taking their time to fix WD and other glitches.
So to be kind of in the middle on this topic. We can play with all the charecters that we grew to love and then later become a zombie at the competitive level.
perhaps there will be a middle ground in Brawl, where you can actually play with ALL of the charecters , and constantly play pros glitch free.
Can we all agree that we want to play smash bros.
Not super-5 -charecter-wavedash-that-clearly- have-an-unatural-advantage-bros?
This is Just a game, But why do we have forums to express our love/concerns for the game.....something to think about. I cant wait to play all of you.

oh yeah, btw, Air dogding is different, WD is out. heheh see you guys on line!
happy gamin all

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

-the games intention was to be a fighting game, and in the martial arts and fighting realm you have run, walk, punch, kick, grab, throw...seizure slide on the ground without moving your feet at all? wait....

Double jump
Guns that come out of nowhere
Shine that comes out of nowhere
Sleeping next to your opponent kills them at 20 percent?
Animals from space
A knee causing electricity?
Jigglpuffs arm is a disjointed hitbox and therefore logicall not a part of its body?!?!?
Edge cancelling
jump cancelled grabs
DOUBLE JUMPING (I repeat this for emphasis)
Throwing pills?


Essentially your argument about smash not giving the appearence of a ''real'' fighter based in the realm of martial arts solely because of wavedashing is pathetic, because you could simply replace wavedashing with one of hundreds of substitutions to create the same argument for almost any technique in the game that would not be possible in eucledian geometry in sparring on the planet earth between two or more fighters.


... **** I'm good.

So you are going to play brawl now huh? btw it's not like c. falcon had to wavedash much >_>

I am going to play brawl now that gimpyfish has confirmed that there is something beyond basic fighting in this game, and Lag cancelling is still in it.

If there was no lag cancelling from aerial attacks whatsoever I would definatly not play this game, but this is not the case.

As for wavedashing, I'll miss it. But I don't need it. Im just definatly not touching fox, he seems to really blow now. Doesnt even fastfall

 

[veil222]

Don't be so quick to praise yourself, those are all things within the ream of their respective universes, WD isn't. That's what he's saying, it isn't a part of fighting convention, and it isn't apart of the games, so it has no excuse but game mechanics to be there. People drone about WD because it's the monst unnatural of the things that fall into that catagory.

Personally I'd like to see it move back towards a more simplistic base fighter with added depth by other conventions. WD'ing just doesn't look cool

 

[Jigglymaster]

I swear some people tend to get so cocky that they think that they could win just because we don't have wave dashing. I serioulsy can't wait to get online to prove them all wrong.

 

[veil222]

If that's how you feel jiggly... why not just ignore them and wait till brawl comes out instead of wasting your time posting that?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

As far as WD goes, its not a skill, its definaley a glitch. I mean look at it.

It works a hundred percent of the time.
It's legnth varies according to the traction of the character that performs it
It causes no game errors.

Doesn't LOOK like a glitch to me. Looks like airdodging into the ground makes you slide in melee! *GASP*

does it feel natural.

It does actually, especially when techchasing another falcon, whos waiting on the ground trying to hit you with a wakeup attack, you run at him, fake him out into doing the wakeup attack, wavedash backwards, run forwards and grab him for the setup and kill (knee)

Feels natural to me, but maybe thats because Ive been using the technique for 2 years, and so have thousnads of other people. Its an easy technique, its useful, and people use it in melee for a reason. It offers no instant benefits and requires months to years to learn how to use properly in every situation. it is a highly double edged sword, a noob will wavedash himself into bad situations, a pro will use wavedashing to profit him. You are being ignorant and bias based on personal opinion and lack of gameplay at a high level with people who actually know how to play smash. Which you (no offense) have no idea how to do

in a game that mimcs the martial arts and fighting, do you see any fighters/Martial artists out there who Wavedash?.... its a glitch. we really gotta acknowledge that.

Wow. You're a horrible debator.

Double jumping isnt possible in real life fighting due to gravity. Is Double jumping a glitch? Dang, son.

but learning how to use the glitch to your advantage is great for your game play, however, there is this thing that happens when you start to get good with it and hey maybe even enter a tourney. Its called "Eff all your other charecters and join the WD zombies (fox, falco, marth, falcon, shiek,samus).

WD zombies eh? last time I checked, most good falcon players dashdance 30 times more than they wavedash. Also, ganon, pikachu, Ice climbers, Game and watch, Peach, Mario, Doctor mario, luigi, young link, old link, pichu, and more can make good use of the wavedash, and can be played at a high level. Have you ever fought Azens pikachu? Have you ever fought chudats pichu? Then you should stop talking right about now.

Ive been playing comeptitive smash inside my city for about 2 years now, and newer players who can do all the ADVANCED SUPER HARD ZOMG techs like waveshining and SHLing with falco are 3-4 STOCK MATERIAL for my pichu. I play a very good pichu, and I dont wavedash much with him either.

You're ignorant. Stop being ignorant.

If we dont see this to be true, show me a Pro Bowser putting Ken in a jam.

Arash. Back in the day. Bowser vs marth is a hard matchup, but then again so is falcon vs peach. Counterpicks will exist in brawl too, you dolt.

Show me two ppl who play w/o charecter counters. I digress, These Pros are good, but not w/o a huge crutch that is the wavedash.

They would destroy you in single button melee. Counterpicking is a part of every fighting game when it becomes competitive. How much more of a scrub are you going to be?

But that is the way of competitive play. WIN, not with honor or fairness, if its in there you WIN. sucks i know. but thats why they are taking their time to fix WD and other glitches.

Play to win, no johns. Honor is a fictional construct created in the brains of lesser players to give them a sort of opium that soothes their pain in losing. Cheapness is a scrub's term for effeciency.

The game knows two things, winning, and losing. In smash to win you must get your opponent off the screen 4-5 times, before he does the same to you 4-5 times.

So to be kind of in the middle on this topic. We can play with all the charecters that we grew to love and then later become a zombie at the competitive level.
perhaps there will be a middle ground in Brawl, where you can actually play with ALL of the charecters , and constantly play pros glitch free.

Pro smashers will beat you in any matchup. There is much more to smash than you can even begin to know about.

Its a fighting game. Some characters will suck, some will be in the middle, some will be the best. There is no way to avoid this unless brawl features under 4 characters, that would be the only chance to truly balance a game like smash brawl (character power wise) but thank god it isnt the case.

Also, competitive smash players aren't zombies. You clearly have never been to a smash tournament, and you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Can we all agree that we want to play smash bros.
Not super-5 -charecter-wavedash-that-clearly- have-an-unatural-advantage-bros?

... I'm not even going to respond to this. You're hurting my faith in the younger generation because honnestly how could you be more than 13-14 years old with this style of writing?

oh yeah, btw, Air dogding is different, WD is out. heheh see you guys on line!
happy gamin all

Yes, one technique is removed. Now you, like everyone who did not use wavedash or compete in smash melee will be the best player in the world at brawl, we experienced players stand NO chance because all of our skill lies within one technique.

In case you couldn't tell, I was being extremly sarcastic. You're spewing ignorant trash all over this forum, you sucked at melee, and you will suck at brawl.

Why? because you are being a TEXTBOOK scrub. And you're going into a new game, with the assumption that since a few techniques from melee were removed, all experienced melee players will now inevitbly fall to your INCREDIBLY AMAZING UNSTOPABLE... ... ... what... exactly?

That's right, you've got nothing, and you are nothing. You can not hope to be good at a game through the exclusion of ONE technique, infact the removal of wavedashing is probably going to make it harder for you to become the best in brawl, since wavedashing is such an easy and useful technique.

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http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

^^ GO TO THE ABOVE LINK AND READ IT THOROUGHLY, OR YOU WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER HAVE A HOPE OF BECOMING ANYWHERE CLOSE TO GOOD AT SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL

Don't be so quick to praise yourself, those are all things within the ream of their respective universes, WD isn't. That's what he's saying, it isn't a part of fighting convention

If we change the word ''wavedashing'' to ''sliding'' then everything you just said is a pile of wrong.

Wavedashing makes as much sense as double jumping which makes as much sense as a fox being able to shoot a gun, which makes about as much sense as jigglypuffs disjointed hitbox.

Smash is a weird game, you cant make that argument to say wavedashing shouldnt be a part of melee, because I can take that argument and apply it to just about ANY move in the game. Therefore it's an incredibly weak argument.

 

[Aceleeon]

sigh. dont take it personally man. no need to congratulate yourself. nothing is won. its an argumant. you do propose a good argument at that.
but again. Look at the pro brackets players. they are all upper teir. do you think a game designer put in 10000 of man hours to have a minimal amount of players played?
On the martiall arts note yes the double jump, the pills , all that is pretty fictional. BUT they have thier seperate animations, and INTENTIONAL button commands and shiney lights when executed. Do you think its safe to say, if WD was an actual move put in by the Designers Im sure it would have its advantages and disadvantage complete with its special animation and whatever?
So tell me. if WD isnt a glitch then why doesnt evreyone use it? why doesnt evrey charecter have the same advantage when its used? why is it complicated,comparitvely to the rest of your moves, to get the computer/system to believe that youve created this momentum?
I cant change your mind, I dont want to. your pretty set in stone about WD being good or w/e.
Im just asking honest quesitons here. no malice toward you.

Ive seen great players. (Hey I waveDash too, and I play tourneys, and i play pros) but they (winning world champ-pros) use the same charecters B/C WD is more in their Favor. This game isnt perfect. Thats fine, but what sucks is its effect on those who want balence. those who want to win tourneys with Bowser, or Dk, or w/e teir.
the term Teir already demonstrates that it is unbalenced no matter how fictional we get. sorry man. Designers intend for balance. W/D was not intended. BUt your right it happens. and ill have to deal with it or w/e glitch in the next one. Im just making a point. itd be sweet if they could do patches for consoles though wouldnt it?

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm



THIS IS NOT THE END ALL TO BE ALL OF SMASH BROS!!! IT'S BIASED ****!!!!

God I hate how everyone spews that biased "anything to win" article. I'm surprised the writer hasn't tried to morally justify punching your opponent in the face in order to win...

 

[Jigglymaster]

Everybody can use it. Only losers like you reject it thus being your own fault.

Its different for everybody because of traction you idiot.

People do use low tiers. Chu dat came to one of the tournys that I was in and won it with only using Pichu instead of his main Ice Climbers. You can't change our minds, and we can't change yours. Wavedashing is not a glitch in anyway because it is mainly the direction of the air dodge + sliding. Its just a combination of the games mechanics. SHFFL isn't a glitch, but we use it just as much as wavedashing to kick your *****. And Dylan's right, you couldn't beat us in any type of game, even with items or on a bad stage, we can still beat you.

 

[Junpappy]

itd be sweet if they could do patches for consoles though wouldnt it?

. . . . . do you want patches that make it so the pros of brawl become less skilled and become more handicapped with every patch?

 

[Aceleeon]

i have competed fella.
I played Isiah and KEN first round for team, Chicago summer of 06.
I almost made Pro bracked w/o wave dashing. I play freinds who are Hella good with WD, and still hold strong. its not Just wavedashing really. Its EHoggin, and DDancin too. but as 'cheap' as they are and what not, LOOK at them. they dont look good. thats gonna be a matter of opinon. so you can decorate your opinioin with as many remarks and insulst as you like. but if you think DD and WD look good or natural and are a part of this smash world. then your right. I dont know anymore.
why are you so angry? cant you just chill and post something without petting your own ego and beratting others? its just an argument man . comon.
as much as i hate to say this. you do make a good point about the Honor and chepness factor. I think honor too can be a thing of fiction. good stuff.
do you think the game designers are cheap cause they dont like the glitches or....maybe they too want honor, but thier just to stupid to realize thats not the way things work in real life according to you.... ?
and whats with TRYING to have balence with ALL the charecters fat and small and w/e? yeah there are gonna be rough spots.
its the effort of perfection that they (designers) are going for. it hasnt happend yet B/C of WD in my opinoin. can i have an opinion? or is this when the insults come out. man what has gotten into our 13 year olds these days?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

sigh. dont take it personally man. no need to congratulate yourself. nothing is won. its an argumant. you do propose a good argument at that.

Yeah I didn't say I won the argument, I was just happy with a point I made earlier about how smash geometry isnt eucledian geometry and therefore comparing it to martial arts that exist on planet earth is a bad way to go about making any kind of statement [/quote]

but again. Look at the pro brackets players. they are all upper teir. do you think a game designer put in 10000 of man hours to have a minimal amount of players played?

True, but that's at the highest competitive level. I play A LOT of melee and I'm still not at the highest level

This is my point : Chudat is so good at melee, that he can beat any of your characters with any of his.

Tiers exist, and they are essential to exploit to win vs opponnets the same skill level or higher level, but skill is always the dominating factor in any competitive fighter. Im telling you my pichu 3 stocks space animal noobs like no tomorrow because they dont have near perfect smash DI where as I do.

On the martiall arts note yes the double jump, the pills , all that is pretty fictional. BUT they have thier seperate animations, and INTENTIONAL button commands

But a wavedash isn't one move, it's 3 moves. Jumping, DIng diaongally, and airdodging. A wavedash isnt so much like a fireball, as it is a different way to move catch my drift?

Do you think its safe to say, if WD was an actual move put in by the Designers Im sure it would have its advantages and disadvantage complete with its special animation and whatever?

No it isn't safe to say that. But it is safe to say that the developers knew about wavelanding in some form at least because if you go into the debug menu using action replay in SSBM then you can find a curious technique labelled

''Land fall speciall'' land fall special describes what happens when you airdodge into the ground. You slide. It was known about in testing, and it was not removed.

In melee, if you airdodge into the ground, you slide. IF you do these actions really fast from the ground, you wavedash. But in the end, airdoding into the ground causes you to slide in melee, and good players found a way to use it to their advantage.

I must also reiiterate that the wavedash is not an accessible technique for people who have bad spacing and mindgames, because it is easy to do but offers no invincibility frames, or automatic benefits, you are meerly moving left or right with the ability to do more out of it than you could with a run, thats it.

So tell me. if WD isnt a glitch then why doesnt evreyone use it?

See, that's another one of those arugments you keep coming up with, that are horrible argument.

Not everyone Edge cancels with jigglypuff, not everyone moonwalks with falcon, not everyone up B walljumps with mario, and certainly not every smasher jump cancels all of their grabs.

If I can take your arugment and apply it to numerous techniques, then it is not a good argument.

why doesnt evrey charecter have the same advantage when its used? why is it complicated,comparitvely to the rest of your moves

Because it depends on traction. It actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it, bowser is super heavy and has traction so he cant wavedash at all. The ICE CLIMBERS are light, and spend most of their time climbing slippery mountains, and have low traction and they have an amazing wavedash.

Also, pikachus recovery is technically harder to do than wavedashing, it requires 4 inputs, where as wavedashing requires 3 inputs.

Wavedashing is incredibly easy to do, I play with two children, one 13 years old, one of them 8 years old. They can both wavedash with ease. Things like jump cancelled grabs are what confuse them.

those who want to win tourneys with Bowser, or Dk, or w/e teir.

Actually at Smash for Fun 2 , a tournmanet I just went to, A Donkey kong player won the tournament. he had to beat VWIN's INCREDIBLY good sheik (almost as good as KDJ's sheik) and BAM's falco, which is one of the best falco's in the world.

You don't know as much about competitive melee as I do. You should learn more before making generalised statements like that. Taj also won tournamnets back in the day with mewtwo before switching to fox.

Tiers exist, and are relevant. Skill and comfort with your character trumps all, however.

And winning a smash tournament is all about the counterpicks, not wavedashing man.

the term Teir already demonstrates that it is unbalenced no matter how fictional we get. sorry man. Designers intend for balance. W/D was not intended.

No, smash was not designed to be balanced in a one versus one competitive setting. Bowser was not meant by any means to be able to take down a fox player of the same level.

Melee was designed to be a party game, for the casual gaming audience. Of course if you take a game like this competitive, you will find some characters to be amazing, some to be in the middle, and some to suck.

Unless there is only one character in brawl, the tier list will not be perfectly balanced. Infact, if all the characters have different movesets, then having two characters occupy the same tier spot will still be logically impossible.


I see what you're saying. In melee 5-6 characters ruled the competitive scene, wavedashing frustrated newbies and offered some really good advantages that annoy some people, and please others. But wavedashing is not imbalanced because everyone can do it.

Im sorry for calling you a scrub, because your 2nd post kind of shows that your problem is ignorance, not a bad mindset.

I would advise you to learn more about melee, just about 99 percent of what you posted is false. Im not kidding. You're making yourself look stupid, and I dont mean to insult you, meerly to correct you and your wildly ignorant ways.

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Aceleeon please learn more about smash before you post, you may be a nice, smart guy, but the lack of knowledge on your part is making you out to look ignorant.

Also, the logic at the heart of your argument is flawed.

I quote -

"Its called "Eff all your other charecters and join the WD zombies (fox, falco, marth, falcon, shiek,samus). "

Wavedashing does not make a top tier character.

Luigi has an amazing WD, not even middle tier.
M2 has an amazing WD, possibly worst character in the game.

Remember that.

EDIT: Dylan your post was amazing.

 

[veil222]

This thread is getting pretty flammable, I'm out. No point in it anymore.

 

[Aceleeon]

I see the traction factor evreyone. I know how it works. Im just stating that its a HUGE adv for other charecters and not others. if this isnt the case, then whos wining the tourneys? its not Pichu, its not Luigi, it sure in the hell isnt Bowser.
ok, wait. maybe im being to broad here. I apologize, and i mean this. Im not tyring to be a smart a*s. All charecters are win'n tourneys and games. this i can agree w you guys on. but they are not Ken , PC cris, CHu dat level winners. These pros Are good. But they WD thing puts them on a HUGE adv.
I dont think ppl who use it suck. I think your all good players, despite the nasty comments IM getting. I actually cant wait to play all of you online some day. itll b great im sure. but here me out. does WD not prove to be more adventageous for other charecters. its like Warlocks on WOW. anybody feel me on that?

 

[Lexl5]

Personally, I think they were removed because they weren't how the game was meant to be played. While L-Canceling isn't that bad and probably coulda been left alone, WDing definetly needed to go. If they wanted characters to move and play like that, they would just make them move like that. L-Canceling leaves the moves they want to have consequences for missing actually leave you at a disadvantage, so you choose more wisely when to execute them. If you think knowing how to hit a button to in essence "cheat" is more tactile and "pro" than actually knowing when to use the move, I'd say your logic is flawed.

FIGHT THE POWEEEEEEEEEEER!
jk, but you have a point.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

God I hate how everyone spews that biased "anything to win" article. I'm surprised the writer hasn't tried to morally justify punching your opponent in the face in order to win...

No, that article applies to everything if you wanna be competitive in a game. You PLAY TO WIN. using ANYTHING that is in the game, and isnt against the tournament rules agreed upon beforehand by both parties.

Remember that we are talking about COMPETITIVE SMASH here.

Play to win. No johns. If you lose, it's your own fault. If you cant follow these rules, dont compete, because you're going to make some whiney scrub statement that will make everyone hate you and not want to play with you because you're a little crybaby.

EDIT: Dylan your post was amazing.

Thanks! it means a lot to know someone read it, I'm really putting all my logic skills towards destroying this ignorance surrounding the wavedash.

Sadly its partially my fault for gloryfying the wavedash so much a few months ago, but I have since become at least 20 times better at melee to the point where I am now an emerging pro smasher, and I've realized that wavedashing isnt everything. Its a great technique and theres no reason to not use it in melee, but its not in brawl. Time to move on, because this isn't going to change much. Better players will win.

if this isnt the case, then whos wining the tourneys?

The player wins the tournament, not the character. If you still haven't realized that, you have a long way to go before you're actually going to have the ability to become pro in this game.

does WD not prove to be more adventageous for other charecters?

Sigh... sigh.... sigh.. and bigger sighs. What did I tell you about these kinds of arguments?

Does Crouch cancelling not prove to be more advantageous for some characters?

Do jump cancelled grabs not prove to be more advantageous for some characters?

Does jump jump fastfalling into a down air not prove to be more advantageous for some characters?

Does dashdancing not prove to be more advantageous for some characters?

Does SHFFLING not prove to be more advantageous for some characters?

And so on, and so on, and so on.

 

[Junpappy]

Dylan....I don't even know how you're understanding this guy's posts. There's not a lot of grammatical correctness, and even less composure.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dylan....I don't even know how you're understanding this guy's posts. There's not a lot of grammatical correctness, and even less composure.

It's extremly difficult to read his posts. Yet I can see the underlying ignorance in them, since many sad, sad people have very little understanding of this game and share the exact same opinions that he has. Lets sum em up

1. Wavedashing is a glitch
2. Wavedashing makes it so that only 5 characters are played at the top level. (And he didn't even include peach)
3. Wavedashing doesnt look right
4. Wavedashing (unlike just about anything) is MORE ADVANTAGEOUS to some characters, than others
5. Wavedashing killed his father, and ***** his mother.


well, maybe not #5

 

[Goldkirby]

Hate to rain on the noob's parade, but you can still l-cancel in brawl. It's just a lot easier now. All you have to do is fast fall before the aerial attack. By fast falling first, it will l-cancel the aerial, this time with NO lag, so it's better then the l-cancel in melee. Oh, btw for scrubs that don't know this, l-cancel stands for lag cancel, not the button you press to cancel the lag.

 

[JOLT143]

Dylan Tnga

I think wavedashing isn't a glitch as much as it is a technique but the other stuff like moonwalking are, and if you say they arn't then tell me this.
Why is falcon the only one that can moonwalk when it only involves running? why can't samus, falcon, fox, sheik, and the rest of the walljumpers walljump after their up b? Why can't everyone swd? Scrach that last one, the rest of them don't have bombs lol.

Glitches are only in one charecter, everything else like wavedashing and L-canceling was not corrected if the makers didn't want it, or left in knowingly just because they wanted it like that. Stuff that all players can do are techniques.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Defining what is a glitch and what isn't doesn't change anything, as far as competitive players are concerned. It's only things such as easy infinites that get banned.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Dylan, even I gotta say that was very well constructed and impressive. I mean, you and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but that was impressive. You certainly have changed, and I 'm sorry I took your prior posts (Brawl is a movie, wavedash 4 ever, SAKURAIII), at face value.

In the end, it IS Smash Bros Brawl, not Melee 1.5.

And really, I don't care what techs people use, what glitches are exploited, or what infinite combos people find. I just hope that everyone has fun playing the way THEY want to. Scrub, john, casual, or pro. Smash is too fun to try and both play the exact same way as someone else and too fun to force your way of playing on someone else.

It's like, to me...who here has played Shadow of the Colossus? Great game, very pretty, fun...but if I play it, I am going to play it the exact same way as Dylan does, and the same way as CREA does, and the same way some guy in Japan will. There's no mixing it up, no way to change the way the game is played to suit your tastes. It's fun...but not lasting fun.

As has been shown, we've played Melee since it first came out...sometimes once a month, sometimes nonstop. Melee is a game for the everyman, not the "casual" everyman, just for every man. Because every man can find what they want in the game.

 

[Goldkirby]

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm



THIS IS NOT THE END ALL TO BE ALL OF SMASH BROS!!! IT'S BIASED ****!!!!

God I hate how everyone spews that biased "anything to win" article. I'm surprised the writer hasn't tried to morally justify punching your opponent in the face in order to win...

PROTIP: Reading comprehension is a good skill to have. It keeps you from looking like a moron.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Hate to rain on the noob's parade, but you can still l-cancel in brawl. It's just a lot easier now. All you have to do is fast fall before the aerial attack. By fast falling first, it will l-cancel the aerial, this time with NO lag, so it's better then the l-cancel in melee. Oh, btw for scrubs that don't know this, l-cancel stands for lag cancel, not the button you press to cancel the lag.

lol yeah, its amazing how they think competitive players are going nuts over ''L'' cancelling being removed, when infact its back, easier to do, and just as good as it was in ssb64.

It'll be weird not pressing L before I hit the ground for the first few... months or years (Ive played too much melee) but maybe it wont even make a difference if you do it as part of your SHFFL out of habit.

In anycase, shfflings back and better than ever. Wavedashings gone, but REALLY its not that bad, theres so many other techniques to abuse, and all we're really trying to do is knock eachother off the screen here.

The ignorance of scrubs/noobs continues to astound me to this day. So many of you have no idea what smashbros is about and you reduce it to petty arguments over specific techniques. You have so much more to learn, and I really do hope that you all manage to open your minds with the appearence of a new smash game.

I mean lets face it, scrubs are doomed for failure in both smash 64 and melee. And its going to repeat in brawl unless they actually realize what the WHOLE GAME is about, instead of b***ching about techniques that they put under a magnifying glass.

Smash is a comglomeration of TINY techniques, like a spider's web but a thousand times more intricate. You have to combine knoweldge of spacing, damage based combos, techniques, lag times, priority, and hitboxes in with general strategy like no other game out there in the world

There are literally thousands of things to learn if you want to become a top level smash player, and if you get hung up over one or two techniques, you will always be doomed for failure.

I'm supposedly a closed minded person when it comes to smash, but heck it seems to me like I've got my mentality down much better than most of you brawl section noobs, and Im going to continue to improve at smash, while you're stuck at the same skill levels, wondering why you never get any better, when the answer is RIGHT infront of your face.

 

[Devotion]

WDing gone, thats it? That will make noobs into pros? So knowing how to predict your opponent, mindgames, shffling, edgeguarding, DIing, teching, etc are all useless I guess.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

WDing gone, thats it? That will make noobs into pros? So knowing how to predict your opponent, mindgames, shffling, edgeguarding, DIing, teching, etc are all useless I guess.

Its really really scary how n00bs overlook the complexity of smashbros, and then say that all we have over them is wavedashing and lag cancelling.

Wavedashing's not gone, and if me, DYLAN F***ING TNGA, isn't scared of brawl, then I don't think many other good players are either.

The make it or break it for me was L cancelling, but its in brawl. Wavedashing will always be in melee, why I wanted it in brawl so much confuses me to this day, I mean itd be nice but its far from essential.

 

[Shack]

its a new game, not meant to be the same thing as the others. THey were taken out for a reason. And just cuz smashboards says L canceling and wavedashing arent glitches/cheats, doesnt make it a fact. It's what ever the developers want it to be. Arguing about it isnt gona change anything really, maybe a few ppl oppinions on smashboards, but that really means nothing.

 

[Aceleeon]

OK.
its one thing to berrate somebodys spelling or W/E in a post, its a post its supposed to just come out and were all discussing. But we are not writing papers. get off it.
As for all of you guys out there at w/e skill level. Im not going to judge your level of play based on what you say about Smash. Ill leave that for the online play. with that said Imperial Wrath I hope we play online soon. I know my smash, I may not agree with the same things but it doesnt mean i cant play. I hope you can back your words up online.

eventhough we have our disagreements, some may judge others ability to play based on a discussion board (silly i know) or just be downright shi**y towards them.
Im learning from all of you, and i do have to thank you guys for that. Its not that im not learning WD in fact, I do WD all the time. I play with Teir charecters and copy combos and all that. I love this game just like yall. Im just a guy who likes things to look and flow well. WD to me doesnt do that. nor will DD or anything of the glitchy play to win stuff will.....
**** weve been at it for a while......ive got so much homework to do. ****.

 

[Aceleeon]

your so right. why have i been doin this for so long? **** you Smash bros Ego! hahah. shiek vids eh?