My thoughts on Marth and why I feel he is fine

[Freelance Spy]

Now, this doesn't mean we don't focus on on-stage killers. A tipped F-Smash as a punish is very potent. I don't know how good DS is this time around, but that might be an option.

Ground ds is faster than brawl's.

 

[djKun]

For those that don't know me, I am Emblem Lord.

I swear to god I see you everywhere.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If by everywhere you mean SWF, GFaqs, and SRK.

 

[Shaya]

I saw this guy at a tournament once.
Literally every one I go to.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

I definitely agree Marth is fine.

 

[Beninator]

You know, he might be fine. He might be the best in the game. I couldn't care less. He doesn't play like Marth used to, and THAT's why I'm upset. I didn't want a new character, I wanted Marth. I was so in love with the way Marth played in Melee and Brawl. Since this game's physics feel like a nice cross between the two, I was expecting Marth to be one of the least changed character.

He may end up high tiered, but I couldn't care less. All I want is Marth to be Marth.

 

[Emblem Lord]

New game. Different character. Seems like its time for you to move on. btw...upset? Over a concept made of data, voice clips, and illustrations?

cut it out.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Marth to be one of the least changed character.

What? He is RADICALLY different in melee from brawl! They are *nothing* alike so why would having the same character who still has the basic playstyle but with a few new tricks going to stop you from playing him?

Also this is not the thread for discussing whether or not you are going to main Marth, this thread is mostly for competitive discussion of the character and debating how he will hold up to the rest of the cast; not how you personally don't like him.

 

[Shouxiao]

Marth is still good. May be tone down bit but still a strong character. If helps to have a c stick on the new 3DS system or a Gamecube controller to help out with his spacing. His tipper is just too good not to make use of. Even without it he has decent KO power.

 

[Gamecube]

Holy hell that was a lot to read! But I agree Marth is still a decent character

 

[Tsukihi Araragi]

Marth is pretty good, it's just the dreaded circle pad on the 3DS. It was not made for SSB.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth feels amazing on wii u. So precise. So graceful just....just.uhgh

Uchgdhfuejchfhdjxjdndhdj

****in love it

 

[Clint Jaguar]

Marth feels amazing on wii u. So precise. So graceful just....just.uhgh

Uchgdhfuejchfhdjxjdndhdj

****in love it

What controller are you using?

 

[Emblem Lord]

I have used all kinds. Right now I think the Wii Pro Classic is the best one. Great ergonomic design, good button placement and the second analog is placed in a similar position as the GC c-stick.

 

[kj22]

Marth feels amazing on wii u. So precise. So graceful just....just.uhgh

Uchgdhfuejchfhdjxjdndhdj

****in love it

Wait till you play a good diddy in tourney and realize that not having guaranteed KO option sucks ass.
Seriously that MU atm feels horrible
...Nike and I both had some very unpleasant experiences in a tourney today (albeit our first experience with smash 4)

Diddy basically gets to do whatever he wants while you try to zone him out, Till he eventually grabs you and puts you in the air 3 upairs later.
Screw approaching because his fair autocancels/has no landing lag and beats your fair AND HITS YOU OUT OF UPB.
its pretty much unpunishable if spaced correctly (:
I'm gonna wrote a longer thread about how I feel about marth when I get back hom


TL;DR: Marty feels like crap compared to brawl, he can't rush down effectively anymore

 

[Foodies]

Not sure what counts as a guaranteed KO option, but uthrow usually gets the job done at ~150 if you are having trouble killing. But overall I don't think he lacks kill options. He has all his Brawl stuff minus utilt, dolphin slash, and untipped front of dsmash; fsmash, usmash, ftilt, shieldbreaker, dancing blade, and uthrow were all buffed in kill power.

It feels like he has a worse neutral because his poking tools are a bit slower. He also doesn't get that many things for free like Diddy/Sheik do with throws + followups. I wouldn't say he got bad, more like the other characters just got a lot better. The thing that affects me the most is probably his reduced grab range. I keep whiffing grabs because of it.

 

[Wraeith]

Marth feels fine to me, adjusting to the ridiculous base knockback on throws is a struggle but at least up-throw can reliably kill light characters now. Only issue I've had is that the range on F-Smash feels very underwhelming, often I'll even get punished with another F-Smash that seemed to have longer range which is pretty comical. That aside, for every option we lost, we've gained another it feels, I expect Marth to be at least high mid-tier, waiting to see a competitive player prove him better.

If his spike wasn't awful, I'd be pretty happy with him. As it stands, I don't think it's possible to spike any good opponent with it; which really hurts as spikes are extremely powerful in a game where everyone has infallible recoveries. It's a shame as it's by far the most satisfying move to land bar none.

 

[kj22]

Not sure what counts as a guaranteed KO option, but uthrow usually gets the job done at ~150 if you are having trouble killing. But overall I don't think he lacks kill options. He has all his Brawl stuff minus utilt, dolphin slash, and untipped front of dsmash; fsmash, usmash, ftilt, shieldbreaker, dancing blade, and uthrow were all buffed in kill power.

It feels like he has a worse neutral because his poking tools are a bit slower. He also doesn't get that many things for free like Diddy/Sheik do with throws + followups. I wouldn't say he got bad, more like the other characters just got a lot better. The thing that affects me the most is probably his reduced grab range. I keep whiffing grabs because of it.

I agree with you Foodies...other characters getting a lot better is probably whats making me feel like he got worse. Neutral feels soooo freaking horrible/awk. Esp when it can lead to me getting grabbed+40 damage/KO'd....marth couldn't even do that in that last game (wasn't guaranteed, had to actually read opponents)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Wait till you play a good diddy in tourney and realize that not having guaranteed KO option sucks ***.
Seriously that MU atm feels horrible
...Nike and I both had some very unpleasant experiences in a tourney today (albeit our first experience with smash 4)

Diddy basically gets to do whatever he wants while you try to zone him out, Till he eventually grabs you and puts you in the air 3 upairs later.
Screw approaching because his fair autocancels/has no landing lag and beats your fair AND HITS YOU OUT OF UPB.
its pretty much unpunishable if spaced correctly (:
I'm gonna wrote a longer thread about how I feel about marth when I get back hom


TL;DR: Marty feels like crap compared to brawl, he can't rush down effectively anymore

Marth never was a rushdown character in brawl and atm I feel Diddy is Marths worst match but hes alot of chars worst match.

Thats why you counter pick homie. I said Marth feels solid. I didn't say he was top tier.
In what circumstance did yo uget hit out of up b? While recovering or on stage. On stage ok thats expected. It doesnt have the same amount of invincibility as in Brawl.

Also its your first experience in Smash 4 and yet you will jump to conclusions.

You don't find anything wrong with this? Not at all?
Really?

Truly?

Ok. Carry on then.

Oh and for the record lol. I played Jtails in tourney. The Diddy player thats been dominating NJ. And I played him on 3DS where Marth is basically useless. So I DO know what Diddy can do.

 

[kj22]

Marth never was a rushdown character in brawl and atm I feel Diddy is Marths worst match but hes alot of chars worst match.

Thats why you counter pick homie. I said Marth feels solid. I didn't say he was top tier.
In what circumstance did yo uget hit out of up b? While recovering or on stage. On stage ok thats expected. It doesnt have the same amount of invincibility as in Brawl.

Also its your first experience in Smash 4 and yet you will jump to conclusions.

You don't find anything wrong with this? Not at all?
Really?

Truly?

Ok. Carry on then.

Oh and for the record lol. I played Jtails in tourney. The Diddy player thats been dominating NJ. And I played him on 3DS where Marth is basically useless. So I DO know what Diddy can do.

It was my first time playing the game, but not watching it. I've been reading threads in many boards and watching vids of characters I thought look interesting, unfortunately there's not many good ones as marth as no really good player had been using Marth or Lucina (to my knowledge) except Nairo, and if they have it hasn't been recorded. I had a pretty general idea of what to expect, only now I got to actually experience it.

I agree, Marty wasn't *solely* a rush down character in brawl but he certainly could be at times. You had that option to go aggressive because of his options. In brawl he could go from air pressure to ground pressure amazingly, and people were forced to guess what you were going to do since he was a threat on ground or air. People respected marth in the air.

In this game it feels like that isn't the case, out of a short hop Marth has to commit early otherwise he can't pressure in the air. The days of retreated short hop wait till you barely touch the ground fair the react to them are gone.

I haven't vsd every character as Marth yet, but I definitely agree with that being a not so good mu. I've literally never felt that helpless against a character (well except fight ZeRo's Mk), and I felt like the player was less of a factor.

I did have much better success full hop fairing and empty short hopping, however that's letting him play his he while mine is crippled.the risk/reward is skewed heavily in his favor imo.

I got hit out of up b onstage. I was tired of trading with his fair and being sent further then he was so I tried upb and still traded. Does it have less invincibility? Does it still kill? (Guessing no n no)

These are my day 1 impressions of the game. Theyre bound to change as I play more. I also made more detailed thread in the Marth boards.

BTW I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know your stuff. I know who you are and that you have lots of experience. I agree that marth feels soooo much better with a gcn, my comment was meant to say that i think he feels worse than he did in brawl.


How did the JTails match go? I'm curious to know your thoughts.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Give yourself time. Marth is different. And he is NOT top tier. Its your choice if you want to deal with the nerfs.

Make the decision thats best for you.

Also vs jtails i got bodied. But that was 3ds and i was Lucina. He also plays way more than me so he deserves to win.

 

[kj22]

I will, it just pains me. Pains me to most likely be stuck with this marth for years. I definitely will be using him, but not as much as I would like too. I like how shulk is looking, and I'll probably use shiek vs diddy or do a ditto.

That stinks though, hopefully you learned something from the matches though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If i had beat jtails that wouldnt have been good. It would mean that sumone who trains alot can lose to someone that doesnt.

Thats a bad competitive game

 

[kj22]

True but getting bodied is never fun

 

[Hayzie]

tl;dr, but will definitely read later. lol @ the intro, but good for you!!

Thanks. Will return.

 

[IV Sortega]

I actually started like this version. It's seems like the tip of his blade does more knockback. I find myself getting more rewarded for spacing. He also has a very good offstage game. He feels like a fine character to me.