My thoughts on Brawl, *Caution, Wall of Text approaching*

[Hydde]

This game for sure will be slower than melee.. but its success will be told in time. Its too son to judge it... even when the differences in the metagame are very obvious.

Its just too early..., heck, even with all what we are saying now, we can end up looking like morons ina year.

The game will evolve.

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

Close thread

Close forum.

 

[NintendoGamer88]

This entire post could have been written without the sarcastic remarks, flames, and large text, and it would have been fine. Calm down.

...get the point yet? I'm not saying that nobody is going to disagree with others, I'm saying that you can post your disagreement without the flames.

Yes, but you apparently missed mine.

I was at the point where I could disagree without flames 2 weeks ago on this topic. Now I have reached a point where I am sick of these topics, and am going to openly express my disapproval. Which includes sarcasm and angry words and whatever else I feel is justified.

Now that I've made my point clear... *leaves topic*

 

[Nuvia]

That macro makes no sense.

 

[M.K]

*facepalm*
*palmdesk*
*deskOven*
*OvenSun*

I'm so god **** tired of these topics. GET OVER IT. This isn't Melee, it's Brawl! Get used to it! If you don't like it, don't play it, we aren't forcing you! Also, Brawl might not be torn to absolute shreds in terms of glitched techniques, so find a way to play it.

God ****, this board is a bunch of whiny little snobs.

 

[Libomasus]

Yes, but you apparently missed mine.

I was at the point where I could disagree without flames 2 weeks ago on this topic. Now I have reached a point where I am sick of these topics, and am going to openly express my disapproval. Which includes sarcasm and angry words and whatever else I feel is justified.

Now that I've made my point clear... *leaves topic*

You didn't do anything but be an annoying prick who doesn't understand what TC is complaining about, and you "expressed your disapproval" by degrading TC's thoughts. You didn't even say anything against his points, you just assumed he was an idiot that didn't appreciate Brawl being a new game. This goes for most people who think hes complaining. Opinion or not, comments like "Go play Melee" aren't appreciated.

Just stop clogging up my internets, **** it.

 

[DeadtoSin]

Well, I've got to say I respectfully disagree with the OP. At least I won't flame you like the rest of the topics, but I do share the general sentiment of disagreement in the topic. Lets face it, this game is going to be different from Melee. I've accepted it, and I'm going to enjoy it. We really have been spoiled by having years of Melee and knowing a lot of the ATs. We just don't know any ATs yet, but I think there will be some that are discovered. Perhaps they will be more character specific this time, but I'm willing to bet there will be a few that are universal techs.

Also, this kind of reminds me of watching the GameFAQs boards when Melee came out. Half the people said they weren't going to buy it because of the changes/their character wasn't in it/whatever. I mean, thats fine to say, but I hope we all give it a chance before we condemn the game to an early grave.

 

[joeysmash]

That macro makes no sense.

was i the only one who laughed his *** off at seeing a cat with cheese on its head. IT HAS CHEESE ON ITS HEAD!

aww whatever.

 

[Mblade98]

Brawl has only just come out, which is why it's so slow. Watch a video of a Melee tournament from 2002 and you'll see that Melee was slow at first too. Give Brawl more time, I'm positive that people will discover plenty of advanced techs and ways of making brawl play faster.

I will say though, at least you think Brawl is a fun game, unlike the many other people who think it's terrible for the same reasons you gave.

 

[mario-man]

WTC people!! Just leave this guy alone!! It clearly states that they are HIS OPPINIONS!!

Actually, l-canceling is in (note that "L" stands for lag not a certain button, meaning lag can be canceled, but it's auto canceled if you finish the aerial before you land)

Also, he has more of a right to have an oppinion than probably everyone who has posted in this thread, cuz he HAS. PLAYED. THE. GAME. (Into your head yet??)

You guys might all dislike the game too, YOU. DO. NOT. KNOW. YET. BECAUSE. YOU. HAVEN'T. PLAYED. THE. GAME. BUT. HE. HAS.

SERIOUSLY PPLZ, LET IT ALONE UNTIL YOU HAVE PLAYED THE GAME YOURSELF!!

wheww, they'll get it eventually.

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

wheww, they'll get it eventually.

No. They. Won't.

 

[Puddin Master]

Yes, but you apparently missed mine.

I was at the point where I could disagree without flames 2 weeks ago on this topic. Now I have reached a point where I am sick of these topics, and am going to openly express my disapproval. Which includes sarcasm and angry words and whatever else I feel is justified.

Now that I've made my point clear... *leaves topic*

I'M SORRY BECAUSE THAT POST COULD'VE BEEN WRITTEN WITHOUT ALL THE FLAMES AND SARCASTIC COMMENTS AND I'M GOING TO KEEP POSTING THIS SAME STATEMENT BECAUSE IT CONSTANTLY ANNOYS PEOPLE.

That is all.

 

[DraginHikari]

First of all being non-competitive but I'm going to make this clear at the moment: I'm being disappointed in general with the community here not because of the nature of the competitive alone but the sheer disappointing attitude from mouthy casuals I've seen on here lately. Opinions are opinions, the Opener hasn't broken any rules so the constantly FAIL messagess are making you and others look idiotic. You're making a complete joke out of non-competitive players that aren't trying to make fools of themselves.

In regards to the post however, the prime issue to the initial reaction is really this same outlook has been pointed out quite a number of times but the problem being it's always regarding the issue of Advance Techinques and the overall speed of the game. Unfortunely it's not adding anything to the debate, which is causing the initial negative reaction.

My prespective is merely they are trying to attempt to appeal to as many as they can, unfortunely the mass majority of people aren't competitive players and along with the changes to the physics system some things had to be altered. Does this make the game worse. To me and most people I know not really. I understand I don't share the same mindset but that's the problem I have with reviews of any kind: They're situational, it depends on the person reviewing the product, most people I know will love Brawl for what it is... however I'm aware those looking for depth aren't nearly as happy with it.

 

[Puddin Master]

First of all being non-competitive but I'm going to make this clear at the moment: I'm being disappointed in general with the community here not because of the nature of the competitive alone but the sheer disappointing attitude from mouthy casuals I've seen on here lately. Opinions are opinions, the Opener hasn't broken any rules so the constantly FAIL messagess are making you and others look idiotic. You're making a complete joke out of non-competitive players that aren't trying to make fools of themselves.

In regards to the post however, the prime issue to the initial reaction is really this same outlook has been pointed out quite a number of times but the problem being it's always regarding the issue of Advance Techinques and the overall speed of the game. Unfortunely it's not adding anything to the debate, which is causing the initial negative reaction.

My prespective is merely they are trying to attempt to appeal to as many as they can, unfortunely the mass majority of people aren't competitive players and along with the changes to the physics system some things had to be altered. Does this make the game worse. To me and most people I know not really. I understand I don't share the same mindset but that's the problem I have with reviews of any kind: They're situational, it depends on the person reviewing the product, most people I know will love Brawl for what it is... however I'm aware those looking for depth aren't nearly as happy with it.

I hope other people actually read this. You speak the truth.

 

[mario-man]

HELLO PPL!!

Advanced techs were taken out because of online play. Massive button precision = massive lag time

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

First of all being non-competitive but I'm going to make this clear at the moment: I'm being disappointed in general with the community here not because of the nature of the competitive alone but the sheer disappointing attitude from mouthy casuals I've seen on here lately. Opinions are opinions, the Opener hasn't broken any rules so the constantly FAIL messagess are making you and others look idiotic. You're making a complete joke out of non-competitive players that aren't trying to make fools of themselves.

In regards to the post however, the prime issue to the initial reaction is really this same outlook has been pointed out quite a number of times but the problem being it's always regarding the issue of Advance Techinques and the overall speed of the game. Unfortunely it's not adding anything to the debate, which is causing the initial negative reaction.

My prespective is merely they are trying to attempt to appeal to as many as they can, unfortunely the mass majority of people aren't competitive players and along with the changes to the physics system some things had to be altered. Does this make the game worse. To me and most people I know not really. I understand I don't share the same mindset but that's the problem I have with reviews of any kind: They're situational, it depends on the person reviewing the product, most people I know will love Brawl for what it is... however I'm aware those looking for depth aren't nearly as happy with it.

I suppose it isn't possible to prove that Chess is better than Checkers.

 

[DraginHikari]

I suppose it isn't possible to prove that Chess is better than Checkers.

Checkers is simplier and easier then chess. Chess is harder and more in depth. But something like that is opinionated at best, saying something better on basis of it being harder or easier is simply based on a person mindset at best.

I could probably name alot of people who like Checkers better then chess though

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

Checkers is simplier and easier then chess. Chess is harder and more in depth. But something like that is opinionated at best, saying something better on basis of it being harder or easier is simply based on a person mindset at best.

I could probably name alot of people who like Checkers better then chess though

Well the obvious question is "which game has more competitive play?"

 

[DraginHikari]

Well the obvious question is "which game has more competitive play?"

Competitive play doesn't necessary make or break a game in my opinion. What makes a good game is as opinionated as anything else. I simply choose not to assume anyone is right when regarding something as 'good' or 'bad'.

For example I despise most FPS games even though a majority of gamers can't get enough of them. I just cannot get into him, and I get critised for it, believe it or not.

It's not really any different here just on a smaller scale, you can say the pace is too slow but for me it looks fine, it's just a difference in opinion.

Just like the casuals aren't always right, I will never say the competitives are always right either.

 

[SwiftBass]

Am I the only one thinking that teams may actually out shine(lulz pun intended) 1v1?

1v1 seems like it will be very lame and repetitive camping all day. I think teams may be sweet tho.

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

Competitive play doesn't necessary make or break a game in my opinion. What makes a good game is as opinionated as anything else. I simply choose not to assume anyone is right when regarding something as 'good' or 'bad'.

For example I despise most FPS games even though a majority of gamers can't get enough of them. I just cannot get into him, and I get critised for it, believe it or not.

It's not really any different here just on a smaller scale, you can say the pace is too slow but for me it looks fine, it's just a difference in opinion.

Just like the casuals aren't always right, I will never say the competitives are always right either.

Next topic.

Lowering the mastery level does no one any good, scrub or competitive. Lowering the learning curve may. But the learning curve is not what was changed. The game isn't any easier to play. It's just easier to master.

Once a game is mastered it becomes boring.

 

[SwiftBass]

Next topic.

Lowering the mastery level does no one any good, scrub or competitive. Lowering the learning curve may. But the learning curve is not what was changed. The game isn't any easier to play. It's just easier to master.

Once a game is mastered it becomes boring.

well put. in a full competitive year(which I doubt brawl will get to) I can imagine something like marth dittos on FD for a grand finals being routine or like one character(doesnt have to be marth even tho i think it will) winning tourneys. Or even worse a vast majority of the same character main'd by players in tourneys.

 

[DraginHikari]

Next topic.

Lowering the mastery level does no one any good, scrub or competitive. Lowering the learning curve may. But the learning curve is not what was changed. The game isn't any easier to play. It's just easier to master.

Once a game is mastered it becomes boring.

Still fairly opinionated. Mastery level has little meaning to those that don't compete because most will never reach the feeling that they completely mastered the game,. In the years I've played Melee I don't consider myself a master by any means, at least in competitive perspective. For me completeling Event 51 with anyone other then Jiggypuff was a big thing for me and probably would mean little to those that play in tournments. And what is consider mastering the game can differ as well. As far as lowering the mastery level to me I'm still one to think most of the changes come back to the new physics enigne and the wifi connectivity. I don't simply believe they saw it as unfair and removed it just like that. I don't know and no one other then the development team really knows why the changes were made so simply assigning reasons as fact doesn't work for me. I merely look at things as they come to me.

As far as the game becoming boring, a majority of people tend to play a game for a while then move on to the next. Mastery isn't necessary get bored of a game after awhile. But Melee is one of those games I kept coming back to on and off to play which I don't imagine Brawl will be different a year or two down the road. The point that the game is good enough for me to keep coming back to it is more then enough to make in a good game in my eyes.

Game mastery comes back to the mindset of the person playing really.

 

[mario-man]

@ DraginHikari

At least you can clearly state your thoughts

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

Still fairly opinionated. Mastery level has little meaning to those that don't compete because most will never reach the feeling that they completely mastered the game,. In the years I've played Melee I don't consider myself a master by any means, at least in competitive perspective. For me completeling Event 51 with anyone other then Jiggypuff was a big thing for me and probably would mean little to those that play in tournments. And what is consider mastering the game can differ as well. As far as lowering the mastery level to me I'm still one to think most of the changes come back to the new physics enigne and the wifi connectivity. I don't simply believe they saw it as unfair and removed it just like that. I don't know and no one other then the development team really knows why the changes were made so simply assigning reasons as fact doesn't work for me. I merely look at things as they come to me.

As far as the game becoming boring, a majority of people tend to play a game for a while then move on to the next. Mastery isn't necessary get bored of a game after awhile. But Melee is one of those games I kept coming back to on and off to play which I don't imagine Brawl will be different a year or two down the road. The point that the game is good enough for me to keep coming back to it is more then enough to make in a good game in my eyes.

Game mastery comes back to the mindset of the person playing really.

Due to Fox there is no mastery cap to Melee. Anyway anyone with any competitive experience in Melee will be bored with Brawl. However, this is a small portion of the entire playerbase so Nintendo probably has little to worry about.

The real question is if the casual Melee'rs prefer Brawl to Melee a few months after Brawl is out.


Sadly though all of this is pointless because it's been made clear by the Brawl developers that there is currently no desire for advanced play in future games. Unless those casual Melee'rs I mentioned before find themselves playing Melee after Brawl is out.

 

[DraginHikari]

@ DraginHikari

At least you can clearly state your thoughts

I apperiate the comment XD since I'm normally either too neutral or still non-competitive to make much of an impact on most subjects here

Due to Fox there is no mastery cap to Melee. Anyway anyone with any competitive experience in Melee will be bored with Brawl. However, this is a small portion of the entire playerbase so Nintendo probably has little to worry about.

The real question is if the casual Melee'rs prefer Brawl to Melee a few months after Brawl is out.


Sadly though all of this is pointless because it's been made clear by the Brawl developers that there is currently no desire for advanced play in future games. Unless those casual Melee'rs I mentioned before find themselves playing Melee after Brawl is out.

I suppose that also depends on how you look at it I suppose, to me, it seems the intend was more on Brawl being different then it was improving on Melee's formula, which changing that causes some discomfort among fans. I look at the Zelda series for example back on the Gamecube with Wind Waker. It was so much differetn compared to the games on the N64 and it made people speculate, but I for one and most I knew changed there minds once the game was in there hands. Changes can be frustrating but it's how you handle that change I suppose. I don't really believe crushing the metagame was the all out intend and really I don't think it's necessary been deleted.

Nintendo viewpoint as a publisher in general are more concerned with the inital sales and most of their prospect. As a whole the game will sell to a majority involved without much concern and though tournments. The metagame of most games just provides minor sales in the future as more systems and games are necessary. It's just one of those things that differ between Game Designers and Game Publishers.

I mean the flood of topics showing new things people are finding isn't suggesting to me that it's completely over for the competitive scene.

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

I apperiate the comment XD since I'm normally either too neutral or still non-competitive to make much of an impact on most subjects here



I suppose that also depends on how you look at it I suppose, to me, it seems the intend was more on Brawl being different then it was improving on Melee's formula, which changing that causes some discomfort among fans. I look at the Zelda series for example back on the Gamecube with Wind Waker. It was so much differetn compared to the games on the N64 and it made people speculate, but I for one and most I knew changed there minds once the game was in there hands. Changes can be frustrating but it's how you handle that change I suppose. I don't really believe crushing the metagame was the all out intend and really I don't think it's necessary been deleted.

Nintendo viewpoint as a publisher in general are more concerned with the inital sales and most of their prospect. As a whole the game will sell to a majority involved without much concern and though tournments. The metagame of most games just provides minor sales in the future as more systems and games are necessary. It's just one of those things that differ between Game Designers and Game Publishers.

I mean the flood of topics showing new things people are finding isn't suggesting to me that it's completely over for the competitive scene.

A company being concerned primarily with initial sales should tell you something about the company.

Anyway I'll say again shallowing the depth and leaving the learning curve the same is nonsensical. But as you've said in this case it doesn't matter.

 

[DraginHikari]

A company being concerned primarily with initial sales should tell you something about the company.

Anyway I'll say again shallowing the depth and leaving the learning curve the same is nonsensical. But as you've said in this case it doesn't matter.

Heh, welcome to a majority of companies, most companies want to seize the majority of their sales at the initial hype. Mostly because it makes the most money and leaves the less excess stock behind at retailers. That's why most people declare Fanboyism pointless because for the most part they don't repay the favoritism.

Fair enough though, I guess I don't see it that way I suppose.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

Once a game is mastered it becomes boring.

STOP! Lesson Time! *MC E squared*

If what you said was true, Melee wouldn't be alive at all today.
How often is it that when someone feels they've mastered the game, they say "alrighty then I'm done with this game, time to play another!"?

Not often.

Instead, wouldn't you wanna go out an kick non-masters' @$$3$? You're so good that no one can stop you, so go out and prove that. Fight everyone, and they'll start to become as good as you, and then you have better competition, thus you continue to strive for winning tourneys more and more.
If that was false, Melee would have a large amount of fail on the competitive scene unless no one ever felt "mastered".
---------------------------------------------------------

Also, to some others in this thread (not including the quoted): wtf is your problem? You tell him to quick whining about it and that he wants Melee 2.0...
Just like selective hearing, there's selective reading. You only see the bad in his post, and flame him for it. And then you say "he knew he would be flamedz so you can crawl back under ur hole and let us speek two n00b". JUST BECAUSE he expects flaming doesn't mean you should flame. =/
He never said he wanted Melee 2.0 and is now pissed because he didn't get it... quick generalizing and attacking, because if you haven't realized it by now, you're only making yourselves look ********. If that's fine by you then keep acting ********, but it's funny how you make others out as dumb when you're really throwing your inner-dumbness out and placing it on others.

 

[mario-man]

I apperiate the comment XD since I'm normally either too neutral or still non-competitive to make much of an impact on most subjects here

To further emphasize the compliment, I am a SEVERELY competetive player. Yet I still think you can at least state your thoughts clearly and in an unhateful way. You make all the other casuals look alot better. (meaning they need all the help they can get lol)

Also, Untamed Beast = epic winner wether competetive or casual.

 

[Unknownlight]

To say it bluntly, I don't really care about what you think of the game, I'm going to play it first before I judge it.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

BTW I'll once more mention this to those that don't really know: Melee had more mindgaming/advanced tech/precision-timing based style, which is what competitiveness seems to mainly be about.
Brawl is more of an individual thing. Rather than each character handling at's slightly differently to develop metagame, each character is much more separate, unique, and character specific strategies/metagame are what brawl thrives on.

No I haven't played Brawl, but impressions from people who DO have it (including an interview), videos (they do help to a degree, mainly on certain speculation), and the character exposures help prove the character uniqueness (Minus Landmaster's triple threat =P).

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

To further emphasize the compliment, I am a SEVERELY competetive player. Yet I still think you can at least state your thoughts clearly and in an unhateful way. You make all the other casuals look alot better. (meaning they need all the help they can get lol)

Also, Untamed Beast = epic winner wether competetive or casual.

Semi-Casual trying to go competitive.
So yea I look at it all from both angles.

I really don't want this to be a Thank you/spam/i am epic type of post, but not much else can be said on anything right now, so yea.

EDIT: It proves that unbiased opinions are listened to more, which is a good thing.
Saying wether im casual or competitive usually creates a sense of discrimination to be seen when reading which is believable, because people making biased posts at times make little sense, thus making most people believe all are this way (still people who feel that way could be more open-minded).

lol 'thus' >_<

 

[DraginHikari]

To further emphasize the compliment, I am a SEVERELY competetive player. Yet I still think you can at least state your thoughts clearly and in an unhateful way. You make all the other casuals look alot better. (meaning they need all the help they can get lol)

Also, Untamed Beast = epic winner wether competetive or casual.

I try anyway, but as with most of the internet it seems the general reaction is to restore to unfair statements or insults which is something I empthesis to avoid whenever possible regardless of the subject, unfortunely that seem to make me a minority XD

I use the term non-competitive since the casual remark is becoming quite a bad taste around here sometimes. But to be fair I don't like to use of n00b, scrub or those kind of things I've heard from some competitive as well.

I like to see both sides of the coin more then anything.

 

[King_Dedede]

quit your winein'. we are all sorry that those things aren't in the game. YOU WILL ADAPT. tis all.

 

[King_Dedede]

thou hey. you have some points.

 

[naevorc]

Honestly, new game. Personally I think brawl will be much better. Besides that, 3 weeks won't produce the equivalence to 7 years of at's. Give it time, and to my experience... simply being "slower" is not going to reduce the amount of competition. There will always be people with more skill/reaction/better timing/better strategy, and they will seek opponents.

 

[Banjodorf]

Ive had enough of these whining threads. People who want Melee 2.0, stop hounding the brawl boards and go play Melee. We arent stoping you.

The extreme floatiness and slower speed is meant to and does even out most of the characters... hell, even Bowser is awesome now.

Personally, I hated some of the ATs in Melee, and Ill be glad to see the day when I dont have to worry about l canceling anymore, and getting out of the habit of pushing l every time I land will feel sooo good. Wavedashing is gone too.. happy day, thats another weight off my back.

Now, its just a game thats meant to be fun, where anybody can still become SOMEBODY.

Plus, this game has Olimar. And Diddy. Thus, it is better than Melee no matter what.

/thread.

 

[AznHalfCaucasian]

sigh...............

 

[Tanzz]

Plus, this game has Olimar. And Diddy. Thus, it is better than Melee no matter what.

QFT.
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