My Mafia Academia -- ENDGAME: Bites Za Dusto

[Lore]

Heck your post also has language indicating that you're assuming scum has a strongman available in addition to a roleblock.

 

[Pokechu]

But we had previously discussed there being a roleblocker around, unless I'm misremembering?

It's just extremely weird that you immediately wondered about Strongman, a role that hadn't been brought up at all.

yeah, we were discussing a roleblocker. but when we're talking "night kills" and "protect", you can't say it's strange to think about the possibility of a strongman - which is a night kill designed to go through protects. I'm assuming scum has a strongman because it's a common role in a lot of the games I've played. Better to be safe than sorry, I feel.

maybe when praline flips we'll see that she was the one with the strongman LOL

 

[Z25]

Strongman scum feels really unlikely. And honestly we have no evidence to suggest it could be at play, so we really shouldn’t be going all in on discussing it. With no proof there’s no reason we should assume they have a strongman.

 

[Z25]

yeah, we were discussing a roleblocker. but when we're talking "night kills" and "protect", you can't say it's strange to think about the possibility of a strongman - which is a night kill designed to go through protects. I'm assuming scum has a strongman because it's a common role in a lot of the games I've played. Better to be safe than sorry, I feel.

maybe when praline flips we'll see that she was the one with the strongman LOL

Just because we have a protector, does not mean a strongman is guaranteed. We have gone several games with a body guard and no strongman.

 

[Pokechu]

Strongman scum feels really unlikely. And honestly we have no evidence to suggest it could be at play, so we really shouldn’t be going all in on discussing it. With no proof there’s no reason we should assume they have a strongman.

to be fair, a majority of day 2 was spent discussing a forge theory, with just as much evidence for it as a strongman. I'm not saying this to flame you obviously, I'm saying it because it's important to consider what we may or may not have to face in the game. Spending time discussing a forge yet immediately shutting down a strongman is a bit hypocritical imo

 

[Lore]

yeah, we were discussing a roleblocker. but when we're talking "night kills" and "protect", you can't say it's strange to think about the possibility of a strongman - which is a night kill designed to go through protects. I'm assuming scum has a strongman because it's a common role in a lot of the games I've played. Better to be safe than sorry, I feel.

maybe when praline flips we'll see that she was the one with the strongman LOL

I can certainly say it's strange when this is the first time a Strongman has been brought up. Especially when you made a post more or less assuming a Scum Strongman is a thing.

Heck, why wasn't one brought up D2 after I claimed?

 

[Lore]

to be fair, a majority of day 2 was spent discussing a forge theory, with just as much evidence for it as a strongman. I'm not saying this to flame you obviously, I'm saying it because it's important to consider what we may or may not have to face in the game. Spending time discussing a forge yet immediately shutting down a strongman is a bit hypocritical imo

It's not shutting down the strongman at all. Heck, you talking about it makes me more convinced that we have one this game. Scum players do know their team mates, after all.

 

[Pokechu]

It's not shutting down the strongman at all. Heck, you talking about it makes me more convinced that we have one this game. Scum players do know their team mates, after all.

he is shutting it down.

Strongman scum feels really unlikely. And honestly we have no evidence to suggest it could be at play, so we really shouldn’t be going all in on discussing it. With no proof there’s no reason we should assume they have a strongman.

Just because we have a protector, does not mean a strongman is guaranteed. We have gone several games with a body guard and no strongman.

he's saying that it's "really unlikely", there's "no evidence", and that there's been several games without it. But he was willing to open D2 and discuss his forge theory, which isn't any less farfetched than me assuming there's a strongman on the mafia team.

 

[Lore]

he is shutting it down.


he's saying that it's "really unlikely", there's "no evidence", and that there's been several games without it. But he was willing to open D2 and discuss his forge theory, which isn't any less farfetched than me assuming there's a strongman on the mafia team.

Fair, I thought you were referring to me.

 

[Pokechu]

protect that person toNight and take the bullet?

because you weren't explicitly making a plan revolving around protecting someone and trying to kill yourself so they can live. when it's in a different context ("im a bodyguard!" vs "ill protect someone tonight, reveal please"), of course there's going to be different thoughts spurred. in the latter I was thinking of possible roles that can mess up a protect to kill a target - hence, strongman came to mind. there's no reason to expect it should have come to mind in the former just because it came to mind in the latter, because the situations are different.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Lore

Why exactly do you want to use your protect here? Isn't the most likely explanation here that pokechu is lying?

 

[Lore]

because you weren't explicitly making a plan revolving around protecting someone and trying to kill yourself so they can live. when it's in a different context ("im a bodyguard!" vs "ill protect someone tonight, reveal please"), of course there's going to be different thoughts spurred. in the latter I was thinking of possible roles that can mess up a protect to kill a target - hence, strongman came to mind. there's no reason to expect it should have come to mind in the former just because it came to mind in the latter, because the situations are different.

When there is already discussion about a roleblocker, it's a bit weird not to have your first assumption be that I'll be role blocked.

Not to mention how you made a later post saying the strategic layers as to why scum would use their (assumed) strongman shot instead of their (assumed) roleblock. If the strongman is hypothetical anyway, why would you automatically assume they have both?

 

[Z25]

to be fair, a majority of day 2 was spent discussing a forge theory, with just as much evidence for it as a strongman. I'm not saying this to flame you obviously, I'm saying it because it's important to consider what we may or may not have to face in the game. Spending time discussing a forge yet immediately shutting down a strongman is a bit hypocritical imo

ok let’s lay down some points.

Forger:

1)shinys pm was a comic character not anime
2) said character wasn’t even from the main show manga
3)said character made more sense as third party but wasn’t.

That’s three points I had there. Now you:

Strongman:

1)protector exists so should he.

Now I don’t know about you but last time I checked 3 was higher then 1. There was more to back my forgery theory then your strongman one. Doesn’t mean either is real or fake just that one has more going for it then the other.

It's not shutting down the strongman at all. Heck, you talking about it makes me more convinced that we have one this game. Scum players do know their team mates, after all.

I love how savage you can be lmao.

And this. I’m not shutting it down. It’s possible, I just don’t think we should be pursuing anything without leads.

 

[Lore]

Lore

Why exactly do you want to use your protect here? Isn't the most likely explanation here that pokechu is lying?

It is, but I personally feel that the claim would confirm it. It would also, more or less, confirm another town member.

... Thinking on it more though, there's no reason why a Pokechu scum partner couldn't lie and say they gave it to him, to earn town cred. Nvm, it's not a great idea.

 

[Pokechu]

ok let’s lay down some points.

Forger:

1)shinys pm was a comic character not anime
2) said character wasn’t even from the main show manga
3)said character made more sense as third party but wasn’t.

That’s three points I had there. Now you:

Strongman:

1)protector exists so should he.

Now I don’t know about you but last time I checked 3 was higher then 1. There was more to back my forgery theory then your strongman one. Doesn’t mean either is real or fake just that one has more going for it then the other.


I love how savage you can be lmao.

And this. I’m not shutting it down. It’s possible, I just don’t think we should be pursuing anything without leads.

Forge:

1) shiny's PM character was "batman", an incredibly famous hero character
2) said character was at least the main character of the manga
3) said character makes more sense as a Hero character because he is a superhero, literally - batman LOL

Strongman:

1) very common scum role
2)if there's a bodyguard it is possible strongman exists to counter it
3) if there is a creator-like role, bulletproofs may be an item handed out - strongman would circumvent this
4) does strongman ignore redirects? I don't think so but it might depend on the host, but strongman could counter this to

There's just as much to back my theory as there was for yours. Take your bias out and you'll see it - it doesn't mean that your forge wasn't a good theory or that oh my strongman is better, but there's no reason to act so confident in your theory but try to shut down other's when they're not any less likely.

 

[Dooplissity]

omg..........................

my life is a literal lie

how come I've never heard of this!? :[[[[[

I've never played a multi-faction mafia though so that might be why

but wow!!! the more you know

They're awful, you're not missing anything lol.

For the record, I don't think Pokechu bringing up a strongman is a valid point against them. Whenever you discuss a plan that requires x to protect y, that's a valid fear. I also agree it's weird that you all indulged the absurd forger theory but have such a difference in reaction to this.

 

[Lore]

4) does strongman ignore redirects? I don't think so but it might depend on the host, but strongman could counter this to

Good question, does your role pm specify?

 

[Dooplissity]

Forge:

1) shiny's PM character was "batman", an incredibly famous hero character
2) said character was at least the main character of the manga
3) said character makes more sense as a Hero character because he is a superhero, literally - batman LOL

Strongman:

1) very common scum role
2)if there's a bodyguard it is possible strongman exists to counter it
3) if there is a creator-like role, bulletproofs may be an item handed out - strongman would circumvent this
4) does strongman ignore redirects? I don't think so but it might depend on the host, but strongman could counter this to

There's just as much to back my theory as there was for yours. Take your bias out and you'll see it - it doesn't mean that your forge wasn't a good theory or that oh my strongman is better, but there's no reason to act so confident in your theory but try to shut down other's when they're not any less likely.

I mean, I'm comfortable saying that.

 

[Lore]

They're awful, you're not missing anything lol.

For the record, I don't think Pokechu bringing up a strongman is a valid point against them. Whenever you discuss a plan that requires x to protect y, that's a valid fear. I also agree it's weird that you all indulged the absurd forger theory but have such a difference in reaction to this.

For me it's mostly that potential roleblock was the big topic, yet it wasn't his first thought as a counter to my protect. In addition, his later post assuming scum has both roleblock and strongman was weird to me.

 

[Pokechu]

Good question, does your role pm specify?

it does! thank you for asking

unfortunately no I dont think it does :///

but i have a question!!1 okay so who are you protecting toNight? I'd really like putting my strongman to use, can you tell me your target?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

The Stoopid Unikorn why did you target Golden Night 1 when you could have tracked someone more suspicious?

 

[Lore]

I mean, I'm comfortable saying that.

All jokes aside, I do still feel that the Forger was a rough theory. Sorry Z25.

Honestly if it wasn't for the soft "confirm" on Z25's role, I'd still be pushing it. If this game ends up having no show villains as the scum, I'm going to be frustrated with this confirm, to say the least.

****, it'd fit the flavor too as a training exercise. We need a scum flip asap to confirm or deny.

 

[Pokechu]

When there is already discussion about a roleblocker, it's a bit weird not to have your first assumption be that I'll be role blocked.

Not to mention how you made a later post saying the strategic layers as to why scum would use their (assumed) strongman shot instead of their (assumed) roleblock. If the strongman is hypothetical anyway, why would you automatically assume they have both?

they have to have a roleblocker, unless me and Z both got blocked by townies (which, why would a townie block Z? he seems pretty clean. Toaster flipped blocker IIRC so I'm 99% sure they (toaster) blocked me)

that's why I assumed mafia had a roleblocker, I assumed they had a strongman too because it's a common scum role. it's just spitballing ideas, once praline flips who knows I might be wrong I might be right, but throwing the idea out there doesn't do any harm. it only helps because it puts into perspective your theory, because a strongman is a plausible risk to it.

 

[Lore]

it does! thank you for asking

unfortunately no I dont think it does :///

but i have a question!!1 okay so who are you protecting toNight? I'd really like putting my strongman to use, can you tell me your target?

I haven't decided on my protect yet and don't intend to declare it unless as part of another strategy, like the item-maker claim idea.

 

[giraffelasergun]

My best bet is that it was either an item that didn't alert the receiving player or it was given to scum accidentally. If the role exists at all.


I have an idea.

Pokechu's claim of receiving the tracker could have been easily faked, if he was scum. He, of course, would know the movements of Praline (still likely scum).

I still have my protect. What if the person who gave the item claims, then I protect that person toNight and take the bullet? I die, but we confirm Pokechu's claim. If no one claims the role, we can assume Pokechu is lying.

I'm liking this idea the more I think on it. What do you guys think?

I think my two biggest pauses of an inventor claim is that if you're protecting the inventor the mafia would know who not to target, which is a big advantage for them. Also, if the inventor claims that they exist and gave an item to pokechu, that doesn't actually confirm that pokechu's alignment either way.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Can you all stop talking about imaginary roles we have no evidence for ? Thanks.

 

[Lore]

they have to have a roleblocker, unless me and Z both got blocked by townies (which, why would a townie block Z? he seems pretty clean. Toaster flipped blocker IIRC so I'm 99% sure they (toaster) blocked me)

that's why I assumed mafia had a roleblocker, I assumed they had a strongman too because it's a common scum role. it's just spitballing ideas, once praline flips who knows I might be wrong I might be right, but throwing the idea out there doesn't do any harm. it only helps because it puts into perspective your theory, because a strongman is a plausible risk to it.

You could, you know, be lying about your role being blocked. That's also a possibility.

 

[Pokechu]

I haven't decided on my protect yet and don't intend to declare it unless as part of another strategy, like the item-maker claim idea.

awww ok

make sure it's someone really obvious, okay? i really want to win this game for my scum mates so hitting this strongman off would really help

 

[Dooplissity]

For me it's mostly that potential roleblock was the big topic, yet it wasn't his first thought as a counter to my protect. In addition, his later post assuming scum has both roleblock and strongman was weird to me.

Exactly why it's less useful to bring up a role blocker, no? If the thread's already dicussed that, but hasn't mentioned a strongman, what would you bring up?

Your point on the later post is valid.

 

[Pokechu]

You could, you know, be lying about your role being blocked. That's also a possibility.

And you could also be lying about being a bodyguard and being shot N1.

Are we going down that rabbit hole? So why go down this one?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I think my two biggest pauses of an inventor claim is that if you're protecting the inventor the mafia would know who not to target, which is a big advantage for them. Also, if the inventor claims that they exist and gave an item to pokechu, that doesn't actually confirm that pokechu's alignment either way.

Pokechu is scum unless someone wants to admit giving an item to Pokechu. Right?

 

[Dooplissity]

Pokechu is scum unless someone wants to admit giving an item to Pokechu. Right?

Wrong. Say I'm inventor and I have something strong like a 1-shot cop left - I'm not going to claim, especially given that we're lynching praline today.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Pokechu is scum unless someone wants to admit giving an item to Pokechu. Right?

Pokechu can be scum whether or not someone gave them an item. I don't think we should push town PRs to claim if we wouldn't benefit from it.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Kary what do you think of Utops?

 

[Lore]

Exactly why it's less useful to bring up a role blocker, no? If the thread's already dicussed that, but hasn't mentioned a strongman, what would you bring up?

Your point on the later post is valid.

Apologies if I'm being unclear, but I mean this:

Let's say the thread is discussing a role blocker potentially being on scum. I then declare that I want to use my protect as a strategy.

Wouldn't the natural thought be to then think "oh wait, that potential roleblocker could stop that!" instead of a role that hasn't been mentioned in the slightest before?

Thanks for finding the later post valid. Tbh that post is enough for me, for now, to firmly settle my thoughts on Pokechu as scum. I firmly believe that Praline is being bussed by Pokechu.

And you could also be lying about being a bodyguard and being shot N1.

Are we going down that rabbit hole? So why go down this one?

If I'm currently reading you as scum, it's a possibility that I have to consider.

To be fair to you, though, Toaster could have blocked you while your scum partner roleblocked Z25, since Z25 has a "confirmed" role. In fact, that sounds way more plausible.

Pokechu is scum unless someone wants to admit giving an item to Pokechu. Right?

That's the idea, but I now realize that it's a bit of a flawed plan.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Wrong. Say I'm inventor and I have something strong like a 1-shot cop left - I'm not going to claim, especially given that we're lynching praline today.

I was not suggesting that they have to claim today.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary what do you think of Utops?

I like them slightly more than the penguin guy. Why do you ask?

 

[Dooplissity]

I was not suggesting that they have to claim today.

Ah, my mistake then. In that event I would agree.

 

[Z25]

Good question, does your role pm specify?

Lol.

But yeah chu I can’t say I’ve ever seen a redirect be blocked by a strongman.

All jokes aside, I do still feel that the Forger was a rough theory. Sorry Z25.

Honestly if it wasn't for the soft "confirm" on Z25's role, I'd still be pushing it. If this game ends up having no show villains as the scum, I'm going to be frustrated with this confirm, to say the least.

****, it'd fit the flavor too as a training exercise. We need a scum flip asap to confirm or deny.

That’s fair. I never said it was perfect but was at least worth discussing day 2.

But your later point I honestly didn’t think of that. If the game is a training exercise then yeah scum could definitely be actuall characters that are good.
This is a plot in the show too. But there’s also a training exercise taken over by actual villains. And considering one of the big story arcs of the show is that the villains somehow manage to keep influrtrate top secret training spots and excercise for the heroes, we could see real villains too.

We really do need a flip to better visualize things

 

[giraffelasergun]

I like them slightly more than the penguin guy. Why do you ask?

They’ve been a hard slot for me to read this whole game so I wanted someone else’s input. Also tired of the role discussion.