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My first vid!

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Fortress | Sveet

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You just need more experience. Most of the game it seemed like you were afraid of the fox and also didn't really know what to expect, let alone do something to beat his strategy.

I think the best thing to learn how to do is to learn how to see your own mistakes. At every conflict either one player wins and gets a hit or both players go even. Watch the match yourself and look at each time he got a hit. What specifically did he do? How could you have reacted to beat that action specifically? How could you have reacted in order to not commit to punishing that while still being able to punish if he does it?

Sample: 1:11 in the video, fox shields in front of you

What he did: Fullhopped out of shield and came down on you with a dair
What you did: Walked forward slightly (I think you were looking for a ftilt?)
Outcome: You got drill shined, but not comboed.
What you could have done to beat that action specifically: uptilt, sh uair, fh uair, fh nair (above the shield), fh fair, and more...
What you could have done to not overcommit and still cover the option: ftilt shield->utilt the dair, grab at the shield->shield the dair, ect

there are lots of variations, the ones you use are what defines you as a player.

Also, there are times when you have the advantage but miss the hit. This comes from over committing/committing before them. Work on finding ways to cover all options, especially when edgeguarding.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Your edge guarding is non-existent. Seems like every time you get him off the stage, you walk back to the center. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish there.

Don't double jump against Fox. Seriously, you're going to get uair destroyed. Sheik's dair isn't good enough to cover you from below.

Honestly... and I don't mean to be offensive... it doesn't look like you're doing anything. You're getting cheap little pokes here and there, but for the most part, it seems like you're just there, getting smacked around. Take the initiative and do something.
 

Nihonjin

Striving 4 Perfection
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You need to work on your edgeguarding, your approach, your combo's, your recovery, and anything else you can think of that I didn't list here..

I suggest you watch videos..

Nice color though..:embarrass
 

GOD!

Smash Ace
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thanks a lot sveet, that was really helpful. I really didn't know what to do, plus I was pretty nervous getting a first round against someone who beats me so consistently.

My edgeguarding is terrible, and I know why (practicing against CPU foxes). I watched my vid and thought "why did I do this then?" And then I watched a m2k vid and I saw what I needed to do in the matchup a lot more. I wasn't really attacking at all, I was just waiting for a chance to ftilit and then combo from there. Didn't even grab approach..

elvenarrow: yeah, I'm not really doing anything at all, I see what you mean. I guess I just need to get confortable with her as a character.

amsah: you didn't really say anything.. but yeah, green is good.
 

Nihonjin

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amsah: you didn't really say anything.. but yeah, green is good.
Because I wouldn't know where to start.

You need to get Sheiks basics down first, or it's impossible to give you useful advice. That's why I'm telling you to watch videos of good Sheik players and get to know the character, then when you hit a glass wall and don't know how to get better, show us vids so when can give you specific advice.

Elvenarrow for example is telling you you need to edgeguard, which is good, but vague. Because I'm quite sure that because you don't know the character, you'll have trouble properly edgeguarding even if you try, which would lead to you posting more vids and asking us how to improve your edgeguarding.

By watching vids, you would not only learn that you need to edge guard, but also how to do it effectively.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Jul 22, 2007
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Yeah, gotta watch out for them glass walls =P

I'd recommend watching like... PC Chris' Sheik. I like his playstyle a lot, it's very simple and easy to understand. You can build from there, take a look at Mew2king's Sheik (which relies on a lot of predictions, I feel), KoreanDJ's Sheik (which is just super aggressive) and maybe those European PAL Sheiks, if you really must.

jk, I'm sure they've got things to teach too.
 

GOD!

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I didn't know pc played sheik. I guess he plays like half the cast then.

And amsah, if you admit you didn;t say anything, why post.. my god.. just copy what sveet did.
It's not like I moved my cursor to an empty part of the char. select screen and just picked up sheik. I know how to combo with sheik, I can shino stall for a good two minutes before I mess up, and I can do that run-off explosion thing about a third of the time.

Its not like I don't know how to play her, its that I got nervous and started rolling.
Just look at Sveets post as a model if you really need help critiquing. or just don't critique.

Like I said, I know how to edeguard, I just freaked out and went back to my habit of bairing cpu foxes after firefox from the center of the stage. I was looking for help with approaches and such.

And from what I see, amsah's sheik isn't even that good. maybe in europe it is.. if you come to pound 4, have fun with all the foxes there.
 

elvenarrow3000

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Oh God, let's not start the whole player X isn't that good and is only considered good in region Y.

He is saying something. He's saying that your basics aren't showing in your gameplay. And if they aren't, you can't expect people to know that you have the basics down.

Approaches against Fox are like... short hop aerials, short hop needle tricks, dash attack and grab. You're in the air too much to really be approaching, though.

Also, be nice. Nihonjin's not trying to be offensive.
 

GOD!

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alright sorry.. I'm running on very little sleep.. cause professors think that essays due the day before thanksgiving break are funny..

I guess he just comes off as offensive.
Oh and I just watched pc chris' sheik.. all his tournament vids are from 2 years ago though.. but I do need to stay on the ground, and sh nair from shield covers a lot.
 

KirbyKaze

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You need to be more comfortable doing stuff. Being passive is good sometimes, but you really seem to be hesitant or afraid to try anything. You're also really slow.

If you haven't, you should read Plairnkk's Sheik guide. It's old but it's got some okay stuff in it.
 

Nihonjin

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And amsah, if you admit you didn;t say anything, why post.. my god.. just copy what sveet did.
It's not like I moved my cursor to an empty part of the char. select screen and just picked up sheik. I know how to combo with sheik, I can shino stall for a good two minutes before I mess up, and I can do that run-off explosion thing about a third of the time.
All of which is useless, if you don't know when and how to use it in a fight.

Its not like I don't know how to play her, its that I got nervous and started rolling.
Just look at Sveets post as a model if you really need help critiquing. or just don't critique.
No, that's exactly it. Which is why you're asking for help on these boards.

Like I said, I know how to edeguard, I just freaked out and went back to my habit of bairing cpu foxes after firefox from the center of the stage. I was looking for help with approaches and such.
In other words, you don't know how to edgeguard.

And from what I see, amsah's sheik isn't even that good. maybe in europe it is.. if you come to pound 4, have fun with all the foxes there.
Compared to who..?


To think I was actually going to give you advice this time..:embarrass
 

elvenarrow3000

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Oh man, you have been shunned. Weep and beg forgiveness for your sins, so that Amsah may smile upon you once more.
 

GOD!

Smash Ace
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congratulations, you didn't give me any advice, so problem solved...

you are obviously pissed off at me cause you are bad at giving advice. You also probably have to deal with a language barried when trying to understand all my posts. Get over the fact that I'm new with sheik, and don't be a crying ***** please..

i don't get why you're so arrogant anyway, most pros are real nice..
I guess he gets off to bashing new sheik players who know they need help.
 

Nihonjin

Striving 4 Perfection
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You are obviously pissed off at me cause you are bad at giving advice.
If you say so..:laugh:

You also probably have to deal with a language barried when trying to understand all my posts.
Language barrier..:embarrass

Also, I'm fluent in Dutch, Surinamese, English and decent at Japanese, so I don't think that's the problem..:laugh:

Get over the fact that I'm new with sheik And don't be a crying ***** please..
What?


I don't get why you're so arrogant anyway, most pros are real nice..
I suggested you watch videos of good Sheik players, because it's quite obvious to me you haven't. You ignored it and said it wasn't advice.

Then I explained why I'm telling you to watch vids, then you went off about all the things you supposedly can do, and how I'm a bad Sheik anyway and will get ***** at pound..:laugh:

When exactly was I being arrogant, mean or bashing you?

I guess he gets off to bashing new sheik players who know they need help.
Yes, obviously I came into the thread just to ruin your day (because I have nothing better to do). I'm notorious for being an incredible ******* and have never given new players advice (unless I was telling them to jump of a bridge).

If that's what you really think then suit yourself, I won't be bothering you anymore.

I'm still curious though, who did you compare me to when you said my Sheik wasn't even that good? Or was that a random insult you pulled out of your *** because I said you don't know how to edgeguard? :embarrass
 

GOD!

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Suit yourself, I won't be bothering you anymore.
Thank god...

So conclusion:
-edguarding: I need to do it. If they firefox close to the stage, I can jump out and slap. If they try and sweet spot illusion, jump off nair. If they illusion/firefox at me, dsmashb.
-approaches: I should approach. Be mroe aggresive, make stuff happen. Sh fair followed by ftilit, jab, grab, or buffer roll if I expect a grab or shine out of shield. Also, I can grab when I approach
-Other stuff: use utilt. Sh nair/ full hop nair out of shield to stop shield pressuring. Also, bair -> utilt is good (I saw kdj use it, I think). Plus I learned how to tech chase falcon and fox, now I just need practice.

Thanks for the feedback guys.
 

GOD!

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like school right? Well good for you, I don't have school, cause I'm giving thanks that I got off your lame continent. :)
 

S.R. XXVII

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The best advice I can give is just play the game more. Go to tourneys/smashfests, read guides on the boards, and watch and analyze vids.

Also, its sad how rude you're being to Amsah, who IS btw one of the best Sheik's ever.
 

GOD!

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Ask him.

He asked for advice, I gave him some, then he decided to insult me..:laugh:
As you said, you didn't even give me advice, because you couldn't.. now you are just confused..

If you really want to know what happened, look at amsah's posts. Cause he's kind of being a douche at the moment.. way to troll someone's 4th best character in a critique thread.
 

Nihonjin

Striving 4 Perfection
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As you said, you didn't even give me advice, because you couldn't.. now you are just confused..
I told you, you need to watch vids to get Sheiks basics down.

With the basics I mean attempting edgeguards, at least having some kind of approach and strategy, so that we have something to give you tips on.

I can give you very specific advice right now, but I don't think it will do you any good, because you most likely won't use it properly. So I want you to watch some Sheik vids of me, m2k, Plank, Kira or whoever you think is good, and try to copy what you see them do. Then comeback and show us NEW videos of you actually doing something. Because all I saw was a Sheik standing still and getting *****.

If you really want to know what happened, look at amsah's posts. Cause he's kind of being a douche at the moment.. way to troll someone's 4th best character in a critique thread.
Point out to me where I was being a douche before you insulted me. Show me now.
 

GOD!

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You need to work on your edgeguarding, your approach, your combo's, your recovery, and anything else you can think of that I didn't list here..
/QUOTE]
This is a very kind statement. And not arrogant at all. You see, the point of critique threads is to get specific advice, not general categories. Like, "maybe you should fair during your recovery for extra distance" or "you should mix up your up-bs onto the stage with an airdodge." stuff like that. Which is actually critque.

Elvenarrow for example is telling you you need to edgeguard, which is good, but vague. Because I'm quite sure that because you don't know the character, you'll have trouble properly edgeguarding even if you try, which would lead to you posting more vids and asking us how to improve your edgeguarding.
I don't think anyone cared what you were quite sure of. I do watch vids and no how to play sheik, it was my first time playnig him against another person (except one tournamnet set 4 months ago against a bowser who beat me, which tells you how good I was)

No, that's exactly it. Which is why you're asking for help on these boards.

In other words, you don't know how to edgeguard.

To think I was actually going to give you advice this time..:embarrass
"In other words..." I do, I just didn't.. I was nervous. This is a classic douche bag line, using imitation of a person's phrasing and then manioulating it to try and be witty or w/e the hell you were being.

And forgive me if the point of this thread wasn't to learn how to play better..

I suggested you watch videos of good Sheik players, because it's quite obvious to me you haven't. You ignored it and said it wasn't advice.

Yes, obviously I came into the thread just to ruin your day (because I have nothing better to do). I'm notorious for being an incredible ******* and have never given new players advice (unless I was telling them to jump of a bridge).

If that's what you really think then suit yourself, I won't be bothering you anymore.

I'm still curious though, who did you compare me to when you said my Sheik wasn't even that good? Or was that a random insult you pulled out of your *** because I said you don't know how to edgeguard? :embarrass
If you were such a nice guy you'd give me advice. You claimed you couldn't give me advice, then you claimed that you did, then you said, "to think that I almost did," then you said you did.

I watched some of your vids in grand finals and your sheik isn't that good. Go to pound 4 and get ****ed up please...

And I watch vids. It would be nice if your opinion on this fact mattered, but it doesn't, so stop repeateing it.

[edit]

On second thought, I have better things to do.
I wish you had held to this.. and this is an arrogant statement.
Ask him.

He asked for advice, I gave him some, then he decided to insult me..:laugh:
you didn't give me any (according to you)
I told you, you need to watch vids to get Sheiks basics down.

Point out to me where I was being a douche before you insulted me. Show me now.
You said that wasn't advice. Once again, I have sheiks basics down. I got nervous.
Why can't you be like everybody else in the thread and actually give me advice? KK and Sveet actaulyl helped... and elvenarrow, when he told me to watch pc (iirc).

There. I did. Idk why you have some chip on your shoulder where you want to demean new sheik players.
I honestly have a lot to work on right now thanks to the other posters, so I don't even need any more critique until my next vids.. which I will probably go fox or jiggs for mostly, unless I get a lot recorded.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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not that anyone is asking my opinion but i feel like i need to stop this ******** argument.

GOD!, amsah isn't fighting with you. you posted asking for critique, and he was honest. most of what you're getting mad at is stuff that i would call language barrier effect. he knows the language well, but its still not his native and he doesn't have a lot of experience speaking it directly to americans. he said "i'm quite sure" and you get pissed? are you serious?

nihonjin is only treating you how you are treating him. I'm sure he doesn't like being pissed off, but thats all you're doing to him in this thread. You wonder why a lot of the best players don't post on the boards? because of **** like this.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
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GOD! said:
KK and Sveet actaulyl helped... and elvenarrow, when he told me to watch pc (iirc).
I told you
KirbyKaze said:
You need to be more comfortable doing stuff.
He told you
Amsah said:
You need to work on your edgeguarding, your approach, your combo's, your recovery, and anything else you can think of that I didn't list here..

I suggest you watch videos..
He actually said more useful things than I did.

I mean, I said you have to be more comfortable doing "stuff". He actually narrowed it down to useful things like approaching, retreating, comboing, recovery, and edgeguarding. He even advised you watch videos.

If anyone watches these matchees, it is clear that you don't have her basics down well enough to be comfortable doing them in a tournament environment. Nobody cares what you can do in training mode with no nervousness or pressure on you - we care if you can do it in a tournament match with enough consistency so that it helps you win or serves as a useful tool. You claim you can Up+B edgehog. Alright. Why didn't you? No nervous johns. You claim you can SH back Fair. Alright. Why didn't you? These things aren't even hard.

That doesn't even get into decisions. Often, you throw or hit him off and walk back to the center of the stage. You don't even block the illusion that comes at you, or hit him through it, or crouch cancel it. Moreover, why did you walk back to center stage when you threw him off? You're supposed to kill him after hurling him off.

It's not even hard to look for examples like this, where there's a failure to understand what you're supposed to do in those situations. Basic situations, mind you. These aren't strange, rare, highly uncommon occurrences. These are her bread-and-butter. And you're failing them immensely.

We can't help you if you don't know what you're supposed to be doing with your character at a basic level. None of us want to write a whole Sheik guide when there are a bunch already handy, and a billion professional videos of her.

edit: Amsah even said the same thing

You need to get Sheiks basics down first, or it's impossible to give you useful advice. That's why I'm telling you to watch videos of good Sheik players and get to know the character, then when you hit a glass wall and don't know how to get better, show us vids so when can give you specific advice.
Also, I would be surprised if PC Chris's Sheik was better than Amsah's.
 

Nihonjin

Striving 4 Perfection
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This is a very kind statement. And not arrogant at all.You see, the point of critique threads is to get specific advice, not general categories. Like, "maybe you should fair during your recovery for extra distance" or "you should mix up your up-bs onto the stage with an airdodge." stuff like that. Which is actually critque.
How is that arrogance...


I don't think anyone cared what you were quite sure of.
You would be surprised..:laugh:

I do watch vids and no how to play sheik
No, you don't know how to play Sheik, which is why you're asking for help. And I didn't mean just watching videos, I'm sure you've seen a ton of Sheik players. But that's different from ANALYZING their different approaches, edgeguards, gimps, strategies to recover, etc and trying to learn from it. Whcih is what I'm telling you to go do.

It was my first time playnig him against another person (except one tournamnet set 4 months ago against a bowser who beat me, which tells you how good I was) "In other words..." I do, I just didn't.. I was nervous.
The fact is, on the vids you've shown us, I don't remember you even attempting an edgeguard once. So to me, the most logical conclusion is that you don't know how to and need help. But I personally, first need to see you edgeguard, to be able to tell you how to get better at it.

This is a classic douche bag line, using imitation of a person's phrasing and then manioulating it to try and be witty or w/e the hell you were being.
Oh? So I'm supposed to help you after you've insulted me? And I think I stayed relatively polite.

And forgive me if the point of this thread wasn't to learn how to play better..
You're trying to get worse then..? :laugh:

If you were such a nice guy you'd give me advice.
I was actually being quite serious with my second post in this thread and then you insulted me. That killed my nice side.

You claimed you couldn't give me advice, then you claimed that you did, then you said, "to think that I almost did," then you said you did.
I couldn't give you advice on your Sheik, but I did give you general advice.

When I came back and said "I almost did" I was going to give you specific advice on how to edgeguard with Sheik, but decided against it because you apparently don't want me to.

I watched some of your vids in grand finals and your sheik isn't that good. Go to pound 4 and get ****ed up please...
:laugh:

And I watch vids. It would be nice if your opinion on this fact mattered, but it doesn't, so stop repeateing it.
Repeating* :(

I wish you had held to this.. and this is an arrogant statement.
No, it's the truth.

I posted something, then decided I was better off cooking dinner than arguing with you.

I have sheiks basics down. I got nervous.
Keep telling yourself that, you'll improve rapidly.[/sarcasm]

Why can't you be like everybody else in the thread and actually give me advice?
Because you insulted me before I could. :embarrass

There. I did. Idk why you have some chip on your shoulder where you want to demean new sheik players.
Oi oi, you insulted me first remember?

[edit]

KK & Sveet <3
 

GOD!

Smash Ace
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Moral of this thread:

-native english speakers don't communicate well with non-native speakers
-I need to get better (I posted how I would get better)
-I don't need to watch anymore vids. I do analyze videos but I need to work on my own skills before continuing to look at pros being good.
-Amsah has a temper
-I need to play more with sheik.

Got it.
 

The_Doug

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Do I smell a God VS Nihonjin grudge match at Pound IV comin or what?!

Money match.... or better yet
Loser never plays green Sheik again.
 

GOD!

Smash Ace
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No, it's just you. I've never had problems communicating with anyone.

Don't blame this on me, you're just ********.
I've been laughing through our entire argument.
No, it's not just me. Your wording is pretty weird.

Um I'm actually a really smart person. Good try?
So you laugh during an argument, huh. First, you have several non-laughing smileys, not that they actually convey anything correct about a person's actual feelings. Second, you laugh when you are insulting somebody and being insulted. You should check that out.

And if you were so carefree and jolly, you wouldn't have posted here again, cause you wouldn't have cared. Unless you laugh when your and that's creepy.
So stop trolling my thread and eat your dinner please.
And I don't want to get infracted for this.. I just wanted advice.. but amsah please just leave it alone already..

Edit: I'm not going to pound 4. His sheik is better than mine anyway, I know he could beat me at this game (that's for sure). I just think he's annoying as hell.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
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Amsah really doesn't have a temper from what I've seen.

Honestly, GOD!, you didn't play well in your video. I don't think that's a point of contention.

I'm not saying you don't know how to play well. Hell, you could be the best Sheik player in the world. But if that doesn't show in the video, you can't expect anyone to act like you know what you're doing.

You really didn't look like you were doing anything, and I completely agree with both Amsah and KirbyKaze. Your gameplay in that video was just too low to offer any realistic critique.

For example, your edge guarding was off. Not just off, it was non-existent. We point this out, and you make X, Y and Z excuse. Your approach was similarly lacking. We point this out, and you make A, B and C excuse.

What do you want us to do, realistically speaking?

And honestly, you're never too good to stop watching videos. Heck, I still watch videos and combo videos. I think they help. And I don't think they'll ever really stop helping, because there's always something new to learn.

EDIT:

Also, Amsah uses that red smiley a lot. I'm not sure what it means, but I doubt he means it to be offensive.

UNLESS HE REALLY DOES NOT LIKE MY RELIANCE ON FRAME DATA. BUT WE KNOW THAT CAN'T BE THE CASE, RIGHT? EVERYONE LOVES FRAME DATA!
 

GOD!

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well sveet helped me.
as did pc.

alright guys, until the next vid, keep flaming.. jk :)
 

Nihonjin

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No, it's not just me. Your wording is pretty weird.
Yet I've been on these boards since 2005, have 1.6k posts (and that's just this forum) and never had any problems, until I met you.

Um I'm actually a really smart person. Good try?
I can clearly see that, much like your ability to edgeguard..:embarrass

So you laugh during an argument, huh. First, you have several non-laughing smileys, not that they actually convey anything correct about a person's actual feelings. Second, you laugh when you are insulting somebody and being insulted. You should check that out.
I laugh because I think you're amusing.

And if you were so carefree and jolly, you wouldn't have posted here again, cause you wouldn't have cared. Unless you laugh when your and that's creepy.
I'm bored and like I said, you're amusing. So this is just a way to pass time :embarrass

So stop trolling my thread and eat your dinner please.
I'm not trolling, I watched both matches and gave you advice. And I ate my dinner a couple of hours ago, thanks for caring..:laugh:

well sveet helped me.
as did pc.
Just Sveet? Ooooookaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...:laugh:
 

GOD!

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Yet I've been on these boards since 2005, have 1.6k posts (and that's just this forum) and never had any problems, until I met you.

I can clearly see that, much like your ability to edgeguard..:embarrass

I laugh because I think you're amusing.

I'm bored and like I said, you're amusing. So this is just a way to pass time :embarrass

I'm not trolling, I watched both matches and gave you advice. And I ate my dinner a couple of hours ago, thanks for caring..:laugh:
Well as long as you are well nourished.
I love the correlation you drew between intelligence and edge guarding, is that why your countries GDP is garbage? Because its brightest minds (who are excellent edge guarders, of course) come up with garbage like that?

Well, at least I gave you a laugh... and I'm only a "problem" for you if you keep on posting. No more critique is taking place, except of people's personalities/intelligence levels.
 

Nihonjin

Striving 4 Perfection
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
2,867
Location
Amsterdam, Holland
I love the correlation you drew between intelligence and edge guarding,
is that why your countries GDP is garbage? Because its brightest minds (who are excellent edge guarders, of course) come up with garbage like that?
Way to misinterpret it..:laugh:

I was simply saying that you claim to be able to edgeguard even though I couldn't see it in your vids, much like how you claim to be 'really smart' even though I can't see it in your posts..:embarrass

I never made the connection between edgeguarding and intelligence.

My country's doing better than yours last time I checked btw..:embarrass

Well, at least I gave you a laugh... and I'm only a "problem" for you if you keep on posting.
You're not a problem for me at all.

No more critique is taking place, except of people's personalities/intelligence levels.
Because you have made it very clear you don't want people to criticize you.
 

GOD!

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
778
Location
Rome, GA
before you bring GDP to the table, look at this link please
as you can see, USA is below Netherlands

get *****
per capita GDP. So per person, you guys have more.

But wait, US has 20x your population...
The whole country thing is a joke btw, I hope no one takes it seriously.

EDit: wow, you just said "I never had any problems until I met you." then you said "I have no problems." My conclusion is that you're dumb as hell.

Um, maybe you should look at your facts again...
Also, I said I know how to, and I said that I was nervous in the video.
You can obviously gauge intelligence from posts on a forum.

Work on your grasp of the language if you are going to try and argue with a native speaker.. at this moment, you are still fighting, I just want this thread done. I've learned what I need to work on, no thanks to your continuous trolling.

I believe I asked for critique. The other people gave me critique.. you are still just pointlessly spamming..
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Let's lay off the ad hominem attacks, shall we, gentlemen?

If anything, let's bash how gay Sheik is.
 
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