My Clever Title for a Wario Thread

[DNeon]

No, I'm not here just to be an ass, I was reading through the Newcomer support threads, thought there were some people making good arguments about what they wanted and what they didn't want and it pissed me off that the good discussion was drowning in opinionated self importance.

But whatever, it's very clear you won't be changing your mind.

 

[PsychoJosh]

No, I'm not here just to be an ***, I was reading through the Newcomer support threads, thought there were some people making good arguments about what they wanted and what they didn't want and it pissed me off that the good discussion was drowning in opinionated self importance.

Well, I've seen what you're describing in way more threads than just this one, so I hope you're planning on chastising them for it as well otherwise it's a tad hypocritical of you.

 

[DNeon]

Well, I've seen what you're describing in way more threads than just this one, so I hope you're planning on chastising them for it as well otherwise it's a touch hypocritical of you.

How many threads around here are campaigning to drop a character? Let alone based on their opinion of what that character should be. The closest I could consider would be people asking for Ganon to have his own moveset, which is far more justified as he currently exists as a clone rather than a unique moveset.

And besides, this conversation has done more to disuade me from ever trying that again than a ban could. I'm out.

 

[PsychoJosh]

How many threads around here are campaigning to drop a character? Let alone based on their opinion of what that character should be. The closest I could consider would be people asking for Ganon to have his own moveset, which is far more justified as he currently exists as a clone rather than a unique moveset.

I'm not "campaigning to drop a character", I'm campaigning to make changes to an existing one. Whether or not Biker Wario gets dropped as a result of this is no concern of mine, what I am concerned with is making sure he gets a Wario Land-based moveset, nothing more. If Biker Wario happens to get dropped because of that, then so be it. If not, so be it. Either way I want to Wario Land to get the recognition it deserves.

Ganon fans have the right idea too.

 

[IsmaR]

Shoulder Bash and Wectoring please.

And more Wario Land/non-Ware music this time.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Ah yes the most clever thread title yet!
The greedy, selfish, anti-mario will no doubt return!

 

[PF9]

They should make a Wario adventure game that makes extensive use of his motorcycle, perhaps call it Wario: Ride Like the Wind (with a reworked version of the song "Ride Like the Wind" as the theme).

 

[Quillion]

Yeah, the reason I don' think one or two move changes is enough is because it doesn't really capture the spirit of those moves.

Wario uses a shoulder rush to break blocks because has superhuman strength. That aspect is lost when the rest of his moves have him wobbling and prancing like a helium filled clown. The shoulder rush is an indication that his combat style should be that of a heavy brawler, you know what I mean?

But Wario has always been both wacky and super strong in all of his games. I don't see why we can't mix the two sides.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Current Wario got that Danny Devito appeal. He's the Trash Man.

Well, thankfully, I'm not too worried that he'll get changed or anything.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I've been meaning to get around to watching that show. I was listening to one of its tracks while drawing Mona's moveset in the Mona thread.

 

[PsychoJosh]

How about this, Ware Wario stays as he is, but Land Wario is a newcomer with a different slot on the character select with an entirely different playstyle and moves?

 

[FunAtParties]

How about this, Ware Wario stays as he is, but Land Wario is a newcomer with a different slot on the character select with an entirely different playstyle and moves?

I'd be fine either way tbh

 

[Quillion]

How about this, Ware Wario stays as he is, but Land Wario is a newcomer with a different slot on the character select with an entirely different playstyle and moves?

That's like saying Kirby should have another slot as a sword wielder. Why can't they take the best parts of all portrayals and put it into one character?

 

[PsychoJosh]

That's like saying Kirby should have another slot as a sword wielder. Why can't they take the best parts of all portrayals and put it into one character?

It's not at all the same thing. There are two completely different potrayals of the character that are in conflict with each other. Kirby's different abilities are all based on the same portrayal of the character.

 

[Quillion]

It's not at all the same thing. There are two completely different potrayals of the character that are in conflict with each other. Kirby's different abilities are all based on the same portrayal of the character.

Wario is comically greedy, brutally strong, and arrogant in both Land and Ware. I don't see how the two conflict.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Wario is comically greedy, brutally strong, and arrogant in both Land and Ware. I don't see how the two conflict.

Where does he portray his strength in Ware? All his character traits from the Land series seem to have gotten absorbed by his encroaching "joke character" persona.

Wario Land portrays him as serious, focused, macho, an intelligent puzzle solver, and a herculean powerhouse who does everything in his power to get what he wants, and doesn't let anyone or anything stand in his way.

WarioWare portrays him as an unintelligent, flatulent buffoon who is extremely impatient, thoughtless, aggressive, and prone to throwing tantrums like a child.

The two portrayals are completely at odds with each other and I don't see how you could possibly say otherwise.

 

[Quillion]

Where does he portray his strength in Ware? All his character traits from the Land series seem to have gotten absorbed by his encroaching "joke character" persona.

Wario Land portrays him as serious, focused, macho, an intelligent puzzle solver, and a herculean powerhouse who does everything in his power to get what he wants, and doesn't let anyone or anything stand in his way.

WarioWare portrays him as an unintelligent, flatulent buffoon who is extremely impatient, thoughtless, aggressive, and prone to throwing tantrums like a child.

The two portrayals are completely at odds with each other and I don't see how you could possibly say otherwise.

While you may have a bit of a point, the reason for the divide is not what you think.

Here's a section of an article written by PushDustIn:

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart1/#2Warios

The idea that Wario is exclusively a macho, implacable powerhouse is an invention of western marketing for Wario Land. Marketing in Japan, the series' country of origin, has focused more on his buffoonery while still referencing his strength. The later made its way into WarioWare.

 

[DNeon]

The idea that Wario is exclusively a macho, implacable powerhouse is an invention of western marketing for Wario Land.

I don't think I've ever felt more vindicated

 

[PsychoJosh]

While you may have a bit of a point, the reason for the divide is not what you think.

Here's a section of an article written by PushDustIn:

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart1/#2Warios

The idea that Wario is exclusively a macho, implacable powerhouse is an invention of western marketing for Wario Land. Marketing in Japan, the series' country of origin, has focused more on his buffoonery while still referencing his strength. The later made its way into WarioWare.

Yes, I've read this article before, and be that as it may, it doesn't change the fact that there are two separate Wario portrayals, and the content of the actual Wario Land games did not implicate any crude bodily humor, that was only in the Japanese marketing for the game. So Wario as he is in Smash is still not based on anything from his actual games, and is only based on how he was marketed in Japan. That still leaves the western markets that grew up with his games completely out to dry.

 

[Quillion]

Yes, I've read this article before, and be that as it may, it doesn't change the fact that there are two separate Wario portrayals, and the content of the actual Wario Land games did not implicate any crude bodily humor, that was only in the Japanese marketing for the game. So Wario as he is in Smash is still not based on anything from his actual games, and is only based on how he was marketed in Japan. That still leaves the western markets that grew up with his games completely out to dry.

But this western "portrayal" was made up by people who didn't make the game in the first place.

While I agree that playing up his grossness was uncalled for, Wario is still a clumsy, wacky, buffoon in his platformers. They didn't make any stretch to put that portrayal in Ware.

 

[PSIguy89]

Honestly at this point ANY Wario Land content is more than welcome. I LOVE the land games and even WW but to see all of that replaced by Warioware is saddening to me (I’m not talking about just in smash either)

 

[PsychoJosh]

But this western "portrayal" was made up by people who didn't make the game in the first place.

While I agree that playing up his grossness was uncalled for, Wario is still a clumsy, wacky, buffoon in his platformers. They didn't make any stretch to put that portrayal in Ware.

Not true.

I think it's very clear that the western portrayal of Wario is closer to what we see in his adventure games than the one we see in eastern marketing. And either way it doesn't change the fact that what we see of him in the Smash games doesn't match his actual action game portrayals, which is what his moveset SHOULD be based on. It shouldn't be based on marketing material we see outside of the games.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Let me tell you a little story.

Back a long time to my browsing in Tumblr, I came across a post that had someone get genuinely baffled about "why Wario looks so buff in Smash 4", enough to rival likes of Ryu and Mac. People made joking statements about him being the peak of male performance and much more.

Here then I am, remember exactly why he's so "buff":

It had me wonder sometimes, why we don't see much of Wario before to be featured in any sort of games on his own, aside from WarioWare - which has basically gone on a hiatus by this point since poorly selling and much less robust Game & Wario, now given one last push with a game on a handheld system that I expected to see a game from the series in the beginning of it's lifecycle, instead around it's end.

I have a strong theory to this however and that is, Wario's just not very appealing and potential character to make games about anymore, honestly. I think his joke character archetype based on his eastern portrayal has grown slowly more and more shallower and dull since Brawl-days, forcing him being stuck on being face of Warioware and revert basically back to what he was first conceived of before his breakthrough: a silly, exaggerated caricature of Mario.

Fun Fact: The above version doesn't have guns featured about him, much like how Wario's perceived these days.


If going by that article from SourceGaming (which I never had really enjoyed, even if I can see their points), Wario's characterization today could be said to be "proper" today. The thing is, it hasn't made him exactly popular or even likable in the West since - and IDK if that's a big compensation on his miniscule fanbase on East as well.

I mean, today he's the kind of guy who'd do raspberries often like a manchild during interviews and pull up things like "Crowdfarter" to raise money, and just laze around in a crappy apartment with no heaps of treasure in sight.

Mario gets to call him cuckoo-crazy in his rare long dialogue-filled interviews for Mario Sports Mix - and while some might have disagreed with him due Wario having packed good legacy by that point... today, a majority would agree with him due Wario's recently less impressive outings and much more shallower characterization.

It's like we hopped on alternate universe were Wario tried to constantly go after Mario and foil his plans of various sorts as his second rival, though even more of a pushover and difficult to take seriously than Bowser would ever be.

After failing over and over again like many of these comedic joke villains go, he'd settled on a not-very-rosy life where he tries to strike it rich in other various ways, and showing other levels of buffonery and crudeness veering on typical immaturity.

Prior to all this decay, Wario was able to brag completely about his sheer amazingness (and good looks) in Wario Land-games - and he never was really wrong with it - he's apparently a crush of one of the more popular Nintendo-females under the radar of Smash-series.

And as known most iconic to him, not many characters in Mario-verse can brag about having a huge castle full of treasure - and their guardian is a highly formidable and surprisingly competent brute to earn it all.

It is probably why I didn't mind Wario's weirdness or crude tendencies on top of it all - he got to make himself even better than he's allowed to be today, while still staying true to himself without turning himself incompetent. And as far as I've seen, majority out there share the same sentiments, even if it's not easy to put to words with this kind of a character. Like, there was this rowdy coolness to him all around as he just lived the life to his eccentric whims and gained ton with it. It made you feel like: "Dude, he's kind of gross and immature at times, but damn, he's living the life. Don't I just wish to be this guy." That's what made Wario one of the most favorite Nintendo-characters ever made. Period.

Games like Project M understood this perfectly, and brought up alive what I thought was impossible to ever see in Smash-games. There were western commercials showing Wario as diabolical, yet still wacky anti-hero with gross tendencies. It was a perfect, happy medium.

And well, I think he was more or less this in the old days too:

I never understood why we just couldn't have both, instead of favoring the Eastern characterization which I feel bit like became the status quo for Wario after Brawl's success coupled with it's heavy representation of Warioware. And well, could majority of casual fans see WarioWare-Wario in glorious and comedic treasure-hunting adventures from the past? No, they wouldn't.

Because Wario's now too lazy and incompetent epitome of gross, according to Smash 4's US Trophy description.

This used to be the same guy, who after 3 romps of treasure hunting, bought a super-cool car pimped all up in his emblems and colors, and as you boot up Wario Land 4, you're given one of the most sublime intros ever grace in videogaming history:

And he's just off to another awesome adventure of treasure-hunting, like the good ol' Scrooge McDuck himself.

I'll just put this quote from this post on Tumblr to sum it best:

Wario is interesting because he’s not just anti-mario but the opposite of what we’d expect from a protagonist at all, someone rude and selfish and weird and kinda ugly, and his goals only just happen to line up with helping other people out sometimes because there’s money involved. Yet he’s endearing, because he owns up to it completely and we all relate to it on some level, and again it’s not like he isn’t getting punished constantly, he just puts up with it cause that’s who he is.

So yeah, all of this is why I've found it been so crass and plain ignorant for Sakurai to brush Wario's rich legacy so aside, only to create his own characterization that frankly hasn't held any candle to the original so far. Combine with the deep irony that how Warioware-series would have never been as good if we never had Wario Land's ongoing legacy allowing it to perfect it's quirky, whimsical Japanese humor to it's best in Wario Land 4, before finally hitting it's pinnacle Warioware Inc. - Mega Microgames.


So yeah, Wario Land Wario is still my number one - so understandably, I feel like he's not really existing in Smash-games. He's just... there. You know, there. Being uh, a wacky sort of character that I'm sure a lot people like, but honestly - they could at least take a look at Wario's glorious days of best platforming Nintendo has ever created on their handheld system history.

Instead of you know, finding it befuddling how can a gross buffoon like him, happen to be "so buff".

 

[Spinosaurus]

I mean.

You got the spinoffs to blame for that. That's where most people know him from.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I mean.

You got the spinoffs to blame for that. That's where most people know him from.

You mean Mario-spinoffs or Warioware? (I think it's Mario-spinoffs though)

 

[Spinosaurus]

You mean Mario-spinoffs or Warioware? (I think it's Mario-spinoffs though)

Yeah Mario spinoffs, it always weirds me out when anyone forgets about them when talking about Wario's portrayal. It's where most people's perception of him comes from.

Personally, I like Wario's current portrayal. I mentioned it before, but he strikes that Danny Devito appeal for a lot of people. The only thing about him in Smash I'd honestly change is the fart, which is a bit much, but I'm more than okay with him being gross and clumsy. He's always been like that to me honestly.

I guess if I have to put it one way - I adore Wario Land, but it's not because of Wario. (4 being the exception, mind) Whereas I adore Warioware because of Wario.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yeah Mario spinoffs, it always weirds me out when anyone forgets about them when talking about Wario's portrayal. It's where most people's perception of him comes from.

Well yeah - but I think even Mario-spinoffs tried to allow some references to Wario Land-games during the series' peak, like with Dr.Mario 64 being basically Dr.Mario Featuring Wario and mooks from Wario Land 3 -and Wario Car of WL 4 being featured as Wario's vehicle of choice in Mario Kart Double Dash.

Still, I kind of know what you mean, he's shown there as bit of a comedic rival to Mario, like in Camelot's sport spinoffs. And some of the spinoffs even featured Wario's flatulence as his special weapon, like Mario Strikers Charged, though I'd argue against it a bit since Wario had Waft shown in Brawl-trailer around 2006, as opposed to Charged that was released during 2007.

Today though, yeah, Wario's characterization seems just natural overall just writing itself fine because there's nothing to really suggest hidden depths or strengths from what'd looks like a gross and comedic big guy.

Personally, I like Wario's current portrayal. I mentioned it before, but he strikes that Danny Devito appeal for a lot of people. The only thing about him in Smash I'd honestly change is the fart, which is a bit much, but I'm more than okay with him being gross and clumsy. He's always been like that to me honestly.

I guess if I have to put it one way - I adore Wario Land, but it's not because of Wario. (4 being the exception, mind) Whereas I adore Warioware because of Wario.

Yeah, I can definitely see that - Wario has shared that kind of quality too back in the day as well, but less pronounced.

To me, Wario Land-games built on him with something sturdy to make him even more stronger character that'd leave a long impression since - so coming to today where he's half of what I remember him portrayed in Smash in expense of long-forgotten strong side, coupled with less of his own starred roles has had me soured out a long while back.

But to be frank, I'm not exactly believing or demanding we'll ever see them come back, and I've seen ton of people be just okay with Wario of today too. So I guess it's a loss in a vocal minority of hardcore fans.

Still, it has me wonder now and then was it what I grew up something that is ultimately regarded poorly just due common sense and tradition, making me feel like I both got lucky and very unlucky to have seen adventures featuring many memorable and profoundly portrayed characters in the long run. (I.E Paper Mario-series in the beginning vs today).

 

[PsychoJosh]

Added a bunch of users to the supporter list that I assume are WL Wario supporters, judging by their posts in this thread. Iif you see your name on there and want it taken off, let me know.

 

[Runic_SSB]

I adore Wario Land, but it's not because of Wario. (4 being the exception, mind)

Do you mean you don't like Wario Land 4 or you like Wario Land 4 because of Wario?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Do you mean you don't like Wario Land 4 or you like Wario Land 4 because of Wario?

Wario Land 4 might as well be my favourite game and big part of why is how Wario was characterized in it. I actually didn't care much for him in the previous games. 4 and Warioware is what made me love the character.

 

[Runic_SSB]

In that case I completely agree.

 

[PsychoJosh]

From what I've seen on this and several other forums, there is now a sizable number of people who agree that Wario Land isn't getting a fair reprsentation in Smash, and it's easily outweighing the number of WarioWare Wario supporters who are now in the minority. So hopefully Sakurai sees this and realizes that there is an outcry against his treatment of Wario.

Not getting my hopes up, but I think it might be possible to drum up enough noise so that he hears our wishes.

 

[Quillion]

I have to agree that Wario Land isn't getting its fair shake.

I think Wario's moveset is mostly fine and needs the Shoulder Bash as his Dash Attack. But I still agree that Sakurai's almost intentional ignorance of Wario Land is baffling.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Mmm, I think he's too floaty. Even if they did give him back the shoulder bash attack I don't like his playstyle in general, it's too gimmicky and jokey. I think he should be more of a heavyweight and up-close fighter like you'd expect from a character with a shoulder tackle.

 

[Quillion]

Mmm, I think he's too floaty. Even if they did give him back the shoulder bash attack I don't like his playstyle in general, it's too gimmicky and jokey. I think he should be more of a heavyweight and up-close fighter like you'd expect from a character with a shoulder tackle.

But he already is a heavyweight and up-close fighter. Also, didn't they smooth out his animations for Smash 4?

Though if we are talking new animations, would the dash machine animation from Shake It work?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Chomp's the best command grab I ain't giving it up.

You could, however, change his Waft to a Wario Bomb and make it functionally the same, just less gross and more tied to Warioware.

 

[FunAtParties]

I love the fart, man, I don't wanna see it go

 

[Quillion]

Also isn't him farting as an attack canon?

https://www.mariowiki.com/Gas_Mask!

 

[PsychoJosh]

I am not at all interested in listening to any of these compromising proposals.

Wario needs, nay, deserves a full moveset based on Wario Land. Anything less is unacceptable.

Whatever happens to WarioWare Wario is not my concern.

 

[FunAtParties]

I ain't trying to hear all this compromising.

Wario needs, nay, deserves a full moveset based on Wario Land. Anything less is unacceptable.

No, I say we base Wario entirely off of the character that inspired him, Booster. He'll ride a toy train instead of a bike, but he'll still fart.

I'm glad we can all agree that this is the best way to go.