Music City Smash

[Seiki]

I just think that Ganon's aerials need more ending lag. The fact that all of his short hop aerials hit hard as hell and have decent speed and range makes him hard to fight up close. Not to mention the amount of shield stun his attacks have. Most cases I find it hard to punish a Ganon after missing an aerial (not even shielding) actually missing an aerial because unless spaced perfectly to where I attack right when they whiff an aerial I can't punish him in a deserving manner.

His moves are just a bit too safe.

 

[Handorin]

Run away and shoot projectiles. It works so well. =(

 

[Rayku]

I've always had a problem with Ganon's wizard foot having little to no landing lag into the ground, and him being able to do that out of shield as a combo breaker to pop people up for a kill move.

Forward B just didn't NEED any buffs. It was good just as it was in vBrawl. A completely unnecessary buff.

Once again, those are my only real problems with him.

 

[KOkingpin]

I've always had a problem with Ganon's wizard foot having little to no landing lag into the ground, and him being able to do that out of shield as a combo breaker to pop people up for a kill move.

Forward B just didn't NEED any buffs. It was good just as it was in vBrawl. A completely unnecessary buff.

Once again, those are my only real problems with him.

They buffed Forward B then they made it normal again letting people Tech it. Yes its sped up a hair but that's to match the speed of Brawl+. The momentum after landing a forward B in the air only makes since if you ask any person who has decent logical thinking skills. Plus it kept ganon From ledge stalling when he got up a stock. Remember when Forward b = death when he was ledge camping you with it.
Wiz Truck is a very powerful move i agree there but its not broken. its hella laggy when used on the ground if Missed and its easy to punish. Aerial Down B is also really good and agree that he should not be able to combo with it. But it is no where near broken.
I don't see how 2 moves can make a whole char OP. Especially when they are no where near gamebreaking. Ganon's old Dthrow meant someone was gonna die if he grabbed them within killing percentage.

@Seiki - have you not noticed that a lot of stuff in B+ is safe? Ganon has Points where he can be exploited for the slow char that he is. You just gotta learn the matchup. Falco "Should" wreck ganon. Ganon gets destroyed by Lasers. Its like Fighting Samus without a Zair and Missiles and A charge blast (Who can Punch you lights out if you let him get near you)

@ Mr.P - what do you think about Ganon's New DThrow?

 

[Handorin]

I wish I could play it so I could see all this change. =(

I love Ganon so much.

 

[Doromac]

I am sad at Ganon. He isn't bad, but I don't feel complete playing him with the new d throw.
I might just go to maining Jiggz instead of Ganon.

 

[KOkingpin]

I am sad at Ganon. He isn't bad, but I don't feel complete playing him with the new d throw.
I might just go to maining Jiggz instead of Ganon.

Its because his Dthrow isnt busted anymore. Just treat his Dthrow as you would his Side B (It does more dmg i think) Trust me Dthrow is still good. just not as good as it was.

 

[Rayku]

Well, KO, I don't know if you noticed they buffed OTHER moves, as well. Like, if those were the only two moves that were buffed, he would not be OP by any means, which is what you're implying by this statement:

"I don't see how 2 moves can make a whole char OP."

His entire moveset is a killing machine. Whatever frame his jab comes out is ridiculous, and if you're just slightly off in timing a punishment (by the way, downB is not "hella laggy" like you say it is. There's hardly any lag at all to it), he can just jab you. Sounds like Fox McCloud's little shiny thing, to me.

What I mean by complaining about those two moves are that he wouldn't be busted, like I THINK (notice I said think, as in opinion?) without them. I could talk about his ******** killing potential or ******** combos, but then I'd just be bashing Melee Ganon as well.

 

[Duchock]

Ness can beat Ganondorf :3

 

[Mr.Pickle]

@ Rayku - While down b may not have enough lag, it doesn't need a lot like giving it vbrawl lag. That would completely ruin quake, which was already underused despite being a pretty cool tech. It also has very little range so it really would just suck completely if it had that much lag. The only thing I find wrong with truck is that it has a little to much knockback, maybe a LITTLE more lag on the aerial landing. Oh and by the way jab comes out on frame 4 while I believe falcon's comes out on 2, just something to think about. Which makes me wonder why you don't complain about falcon's down b it has about the same amount of lag on it, might have less.

@Seiki - Just think about it, why in the world would you want to get close to an evil warlock when you have a gun, just sayin man. By the way are you teaming with anybody in the tourney? If not then hit me up duder.

@ KO - I love the new down throw, so much better than the old one. The old one made me feel so dirty when I grabbed someone cause it was so easy to **** them with it. Only thing that i don't like about it is how weird it looks lol, just so out of place. Going to have fun testing it out more later, after I get some sleep.

 

[Rayku]

Which makes me wonder why you don't complain about falcon's down b it has about the same amount of lag on it, might have less.

Falcon's doesn't kill you at 80. Why would I complain about a completely inviable move?

I'm only complaining about my personal thoughts because someone asked. Otherwise I would just keep to myself and continue to **** Ganons at close-combat despite my ability to camp.

 

[Seiki]

Mr. Pickle I'm not talking about just falco vs ganon. Just talking about ganon in general. As for teams I'm supposed to be teaming with Slash, but if he cannot make it I will team with you.

 

[Power of Slash]

Oh right. Forgot. I was going to do that.

Well. I'm teaming up with Isaiah.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Falcon's doesn't kill you at 80. Why would I complain about a completely inviable move?

I thought the issue you had with ganon's down b was the lack of lag at the end of it. I just threw the comment about falcon out there because its basically the same move only weaker, and I wouldn't say its completely inviable its good for tech chasing. All I'm saying is all that move needs is less knockback not enormous amounts of lag. You're entitled to your opinion Rayku, I'm just stating mine as a ganon main. If you're so confident fighting against a ganon I wouldn't mind a MM with you, I won't use truck or even side b if you want . By the way I still owe you a drop kick for the Waba incident lol.

Oh yeah seiki, I just figured you'd most likely use falco in any given match, so that is why I said that, I knew you were speaking generally. By the way man what do you think about the new shine for falco.

 

[Rayku]

I thought the issue you had with ganon's down b was the lack of lag at the end of it. I just threw the comment about falcon out there because its basically the same move only weaker, and I wouldn't say its completely inviable its good for tech chasing. All I'm saying is all that move needs is less knockback not enormous amounts of lag. You're entitled to your opinion Rayku, I'm just stating mine as a ganon main. If you're so confident fighting against a ganon I wouldn't mind a MM with you, I won't use truck or even side b if you want . By the way I still owe you a drop kick for the Waba incident lol.

I'm sorry if I don't recall the "Waba incident"

Yeah, Falcon's is fine just because it doesn't kill you so early. I don't really care what moves you restrict yourself to, but I'll take you up on that MM. Am I allowed to use anyone? I use a few. I also don't know when the next TN tournament I'll be able to attend is.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

The "Waba incident" was when me, KO, Seiki, and a friend of mine, oasis, went to Georgia for a tournament that you invited KO and some friends to come to, but when we got there and Waba was closed KO called you and you said it was next weekend. I think we all resolved to drop kick you at that time, while waiting for it to open and debating on leaving. It wasn't a total loss, I had a lot fun hanging with the people up there, that place is pretty ****ing epic, but it wasnt worth the trip or the lack of sleep from the trip. KO might have already *****ed at you for it, so if it was a severe *****ing I'll let it slide this time, though I might make silly insults at your expense for a while lol.
Also about the money match, use anyone you want doesn't matter to me, and I plan on catching as many of these tourneys as possible so you'll see me eventually. Just curious, how many characters do you play?

 

[Seiki]

Since Slash is teaming with Isaiah we can team Mr. P.

As for the latest nightly build, I have not tested it out yet...what did they do to my bird's shine...?!!!!!!

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Hell yeah we are going to wreck everyone in doubles man . Anyway, Falco got jc on the shine when it returns but its a lot slower. I think they did it to reduce the spammyness of the move, but when you test it keep in mind that its not the final version, they're still fine tuning it. Overall I think its pretty cool man, can't wait until its finished which won't be long now.

 

[Rayku]

The "Waba incident" was when me, KO, Seiki, and a friend of mine, oasis, went to Georgia for a tournament that you invited KO and some friends to come to, but when we got there and Waba was closed KO called you and you said it was next weekend. I think we all resolved to drop kick you at that time, while waiting for it to open and debating on leaving. It wasn't a total loss, I had a lot fun hanging with the people up there, that place is pretty ****ing epic, but it wasnt worth the trip or the lack of sleep from the trip. KO might have already *****ed at you for it, so if it was a severe *****ing I'll let it slide this time, though I might make silly insults at your expense for a while lol.
Also about the money match, use anyone you want doesn't matter to me, and I plan on catching as many of these tourneys as possible so you'll see me eventually. Just curious, how many characters do you play?

I've never even heard of that happening, when was this?

I don't even recall ever inviting KO to a tournament in specific. KO's never called me to talk about tournament occasions day of unless they were his.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I've never even heard of that happening, when was this?

I don't even recall ever inviting KO to a tournament in specific. KO's never called me to talk about tournament occasions day of unless they were his.

It was the weekend before thanksgiving, and I was in the car right next to him when he called you. From the little of your voice I heard you sounded groggy so you might have been asleep before then. Maybe thats why you don't remember it. Also, it wasn't an invite, more like he was going to another tournament, can't remember the name of it, and you were like hey that one sucks come to this one.

 

[Rayku]

It was the weekend before thanksgiving, and I was in the car right next to him when he called you. From the little of your voice I heard you sounded groggy so you might have been asleep before then. Maybe thats why you don't remember it. Also, it wasn't an invite, more like he was going to another tournament, can't remember the name of it, and you were like hey that one sucks come to this one.

Oh. That call. I was -dead- asleep.

I'm trying to think of what exactly happened, but I don't think I'd say "Hey come to this tournament" when there's even the slightest possibility of it not happening.

Although Waba opens at 2, which is probably why you guys thought it was closed. If I was dead asleep, it was probably around 9 in the morning or so.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I figured you were, it was early when we left like around 8, but I remember KO saying you're the one that told him about it. Maybe when you told him the date he got it mixed up, I don't know. All I know is that it was almost a really big waste of time, the only thing that saved it were the cool people up there that I got to hang out with. Ask KO about it for the specifics.

 

[Seiki]

ganon and falco will be interesting. Power and Speed, the ultimate combination!

is it slower coming out? or coming back? and i can only jump cancel when it is returning right?

 

[KOkingpin]

yeah i mentioned thinking about going to Impact Clash to hang out with people and you said over aim "dont go to that go to waba instead with enough people they will hold B+" Since waba doesnt put dates up and IC was that weekend it only seemed natural since IC is normally a really garbage Smash tournament. Then when I called you while you were asleep. **** happens and I'm not too worried about it.

Anyway - I suppose im partnerless since Mr.P is teaming with Seiki and Im not to sure if milln is gonna be able to come (I doubt he will) So I need a partner.

 

[Rayku]

yeah i mentioned thinking about going to Impact Clash to hang out with people and you said over aim "dont go to that go to waba instead with enough people they will hold B+" Since waba doesnt put dates up and IC was that weekend it only seemed natural since IC is normally a really garbage Smash tournament. Then when I called you while you were asleep. **** happens and I'm not too worried about it.

Yeah. My ultimate goal there was to get you to not go to IC because I don't want to support the TO. Heard some pretty harsh stories.

When you called me that morning I thought you were still at home, which is why I didn't offer to let you guys come over to my house or something.

I wish Waba kept their tournament dates updated, but the owner dude doesn't really stay at the store, much less check smashboards. A lot of people are constantly confused as to when the monthly tournaments really are.

I hope I can make it out there on the 2nd, but it's not looking too promising. I wish I had a car ;_;

 

[KOkingpin]

ganon and falco will be interesting. Power and Speed, the ultimate combination!

is it slower coming out? or coming back? and i can only jump cancel when it is returning right?

Its rediculously slow atm (its gonna get fixed) but it JCs at frame 40 and you can JC Usmash at frame 46~

 

[Milln]

There will be a Squirtle main, but his name will not be Milln.

It will be

SSJ4Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Disco Kid Kumar Boomally.

*solemn nod* It's something I can do to honor him, since the name came out of something I did.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

ganon and falco will be interesting. Power and Speed, the ultimate combination!

is it slower coming out? or coming back? and i can only jump cancel when it is returning right?

Both man, but more so on the return. I can also play fox pretty well for the classic spacey combination. So Rayku wasn't at fault, it was them not updating the thread. Lol **** it, I wanted to drop kick someone.

 

[Rayku]

How about this, Mr. P: You can use Wizard Foot in the air against me as a starter to our MM. That's about as close to a drop kick as you're gonna get

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Lmao we'll see about that when I put my glowing purple foot up your ***.

 

[Seiki]

Was thinking about using sheik probably..

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

I'm gonna be there but since I have no money i'm only playing friendlies. So who's up for Melee, Brawl, and B+ friendlies?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I'm gonna be there but since I have no money i'm only playing friendlies. So who's up for Melee, Brawl, and B+ friendlies?

*waves*
Speaking of which, want to hang out sometime over the next few weeks? I'm off work until the 4th.

 

[Power of Slash]

K so. After looking at Falco's new reflector.

Even when JC'd... what the hell are you supposed to do with that? Unless the JC is at some ungodly frame that I am just not seeing. I mean... the JC is while the reflector is coming back right? Or is it when it just comes out? Can you not just spam jump for the JC, is that what I'm doing wrong?

cause if not, that shiz looks pretty darn useless...

 

[KOkingpin]

K so. After looking at Falco's new reflector.

Even when JC'd... what the hell are you supposed to do with that? Unless the JC is at some ungodly frame that I am just not seeing. I mean... the JC is while the reflector is coming back right? Or is it when it just comes out? Can you not just spam jump for the JC, is that what I'm doing wrong?

cause if not, that shiz looks pretty darn useless...

basically you JC it when the Reflector lands back in his hand. Which is like frame 40. Its still kinda bad but its useable

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

*waves*
Speaking of which, want to hang out sometime over the next few weeks? I'm off work until the 4th.

Sometime after Christmas, I'm getting wrecked by RL right now so I gotta handle that.

K so. After looking at Falco's new reflector.

Even when JC'd... what the hell are you supposed to do with that? Unless the JC is at some ungodly frame that I am just not seeing. I mean... the JC is while the reflector is coming back right? Or is it when it just comes out? Can you not just spam jump for the JC, is that what I'm doing wrong?

cause if not, that shiz looks pretty darn useless...

Sounds great to me.

 

[Power of Slash]

I understand adding lag to it, that's great and all since imo it was sorta coming anyways.

but... I'm guessing there's no way to code it so that when the Reflector hits the JC could come earlier, and have it actually... combo into something, so I'll leave it be. Not like I play Falco outside of friendlies, it just kinda irks me a bit in those occasions that I do use him.

Plus it made things more challenging >: (

Unless there's a justifiable reason to have the Reflector not combo into anything on any circumstances, and be useless(as it is now. imo.)

 

[KOkingpin]

I understand adding lag to it, that's great and all since imo it was sorta coming anyways.

but... I'm guessing there's no way to code it so that when the Reflector hits the JC could come earlier, and have it actually... combo into something, so I'll leave it be. Not like I play Falco outside of friendlies, it just kinda irks me a bit in those occasions that I do use him.

Plus it made things more challenging >: (

Unless there's a justifiable reason to have the Reflector not combo into anything on any circumstances, and be useless(as it is now. imo.)

Um it actually is useful for something.

Reflecting Projectiles for one (since the actual reflecting hitbox is almost instant).

and It also combos still with Bair Fair and Dair depending on the DI they perform if you JC it.

 

[Handorin]

So who from Memphis is going?

Me, Jack, Myz, Hyper, Cyner?

 

[Seiki]

I never found the reflector abusive in the first place. The hitbox is small so crouching characters cannot be hit by it and most characters can punish him while it is returning since there is no hitbox on return and there was ending lag when Falco catches it. Most times I've used it people shielded and punished. Only times I have found it reliable was after a laser hit or if I predict the opponent will do a short hop aerial because I believe the top half of the reflector has a bigger hitbox than the bottom so it catches most characters' legs.

Then again, I don't really use the reflector that much since I considered it a bit too risky to begin with.