muscle memory quesrion

[Rubyiris]

This thought hit me not long ago: from 05-now, I did nearly all of my techskill practice usually late night when I was dead tired. I want to know if this could potentially be the reason why when I'm totally awake and aware why my technical skill is below average at best?

It would really explain why I turn in to a technical machine when I'm exhausted, and why I have horrible tech when I'm not.

 

[Jockmaster]

You're overthinking it and psyching yourself out when you're wide awake, instead of just letting your hands do what they do. When you're tired you let your mind focus completely on the game, letting your hands think for themselves in terms of accomplishing the tech skill your brain is desiring.

I have the same problem, it's why i always play better with a few drinks

 

[Rubyiris]

That or I just handicapped myself by developing my muscle memory in an abnormal mindset.

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[L__]

quessssrion

 

[rawrimamonster]

Just focus your thoughts on playing and dont worry about it, the more you worry the more mistakes you'll make.

 

[Rubyiris]

If it were as simple as that then I wouldn't be bad when I'm not tired and or apathetic

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[Vincent46]

Do you have any problem doing your techskill vs cpus when you're awake? If not, you'd better refine it with some additional hours of play. I think consistency with tech skill is just a matter of knowing what you're capable of (which comes with a lot training) together with a matter of nerves coming from experience with tournament play.

 

[Rubyiris]

I probably have more tournament experience then you have spent time playing this game LOL.

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[Mahone]

yay, another thread where ruby asks for advice and then just bashes everyone who tries to help...

can someone lock this and all future threads please

 

[Rubyiris]

Yet another worthless post by mahone, the worst puff player in existence.

Seriously, though. I have 5 years of tournament, experience. I havenear flawless execution when awake versus cpus. It's jot pressure that's bothering me, because even vs people far worse then me I still fail fast falls.



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[Prince_Abu]

yay, another thread where ruby asks for advice and then just bashes everyone who tries to help...

can someone lock this and all future threads please

i agree with this

 

[DerfMidWest]

i don't understand the point of this topic.
I you feel like practicing when you are exhausted is hurting you, why don't you just start practicing when you are awake?

 

[Rubyiris]

I do it doesn't help. That wasn't the question. Read the op again, please.

Mods: I'd appreciate it if you just deleted abus and mahones posts because I have a legit question and I don't want my thread derailed by those known trolls.

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[DerfMidWest]

I read the OP, and I guess I'm not really sure what you are asking...
it sounded like you were asking if the reason for you playing sloppier was because you practiced tech skill when you were exhausted, so my response was to try practicing more when you are totally awake.
If you have been practicing like this for years, and it is truly the cause of your inconsistency problems, you probably won't see results for awhile.
What I've noticed from your posts and stuff is that your general mindset towards the game is very negative, and this is going to prevent you from seeing a whole lot of improvement.

 

[It's me Q]

You're doing/trying the same thing's with the same muscles, so it isn't muscle memory, it's mindset. It's the only factor that's changing between the two times, that and mental energy I guess.

Basically stop thinking there is some block or difference because you're only re-enforcing it, try to fully relax when playing sober and maybe put the extra mental energy to use. (activate beast mode)

 

[rawrimamonster]

Sounds to me like you have a mental discipline problem. A few things that'll help you.

-Changing diet to something healthier improves brain functionality

-Train yourself mentally to simply adjust to when you need to apply yourself to the game, its probably easier said than done for some people.

-Do not freak out if you're having problems, adjust as you go.

Some people do have certain times they're more apt to be adjusted to the game, you need to get rid of this and just challenge yourself to play whenever and change your mentality when playing. You probably zone out and worry less when you're tired thus your unintended ability to concentrate better.

 

[Rubyiris]

I've been dieting intensely for 11 months. Zero change to my performance.

The others are valid.points though, thanks.

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[Varist]

turn that ******talk 2 off

 

[leffen]

omg reading your threads are so depressing'

howwwwwwwwwwwww can you not get the most the basic things and how can you apparently try so hard to fix it but still make it seem like you just don't understand anything. are you just mentally incapable of understanding smash? do you just have genetic disability that disallows you from playing smash the way you want? I...just...dont...get it. I don't think I wanna know the answer

what the hell do you want us to tell you? Fix it yourself, theres no secret answer to reacting to hitting someone and then fast falling later. derppppppppppppppppppppppp how is it hard to understand wtfffffff


and then you go and rip on others all the time, and think you're super technical when no one is watching JDAIODJAODA IDONTGETITDASHDIASHDIADAHIDHAIDHA

FAFBAIADIASHDIhidhsaidhaihddd



this is about what I feel after reading every single of rubyiris' posts. please just.... nevermind...

 

[Stylez]

Everything Jockmaster said.

Also, muscle memory becomes more evident as a person becomes exhausted - when you're fully awake you may be inhibiting your trained fingers by focusing too much on your technical game....Just relax when you're playing.

 

[Rubyiris]

omg reading your threads are so depressing'

howwwwwwwwwwwww can you not get the most the basic things and how can you apparently try so hard to fix it but still make it seem like you just don't understand anything. are you just mentally incapable of understanding smash? do you just have genetic disability that disallows you from playing smash the way you want? I...just...dont...get it. I don't think I wanna know the answer

what the hell do you want us to tell you? Fix it yourself, theres no secret answer to reacting to hitting someone and then fast falling later. derppppppppppppppppppppppp how is it hard to understand wtfffffff


and then you go and rip on others all the time, and think you're super technical when no one is watching JDAIODJAODA IDONTGETITDASHDIASHDIADAHIDHAIDHA

FAFBAIADIASHDIhidhsaidhaihddd



this is about what I feel after reading every single of rubyiris' posts. please just.... nevermind...

Actually it's not when "nobody is watching."

When I was dead exhausted the night before day 2 of g2 I played mad friendlies/money matches with vman, socal, Meta, and yakal. Trey saw how I play when I'm exhausted. Also, day 2 of dgdtj. Also, tons of az events. Some were even recorded. I HAVE video proof of the differeces between when I'm awake and focused, and when I'm exhausted and apathetic.

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[Rubyiris]

Double post, derp.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Just learn to relax more.

 

[JOS.fm]

techskill is ok, i guess. hungrybox don't got it and he grapes.

link to tired play and awake play plz

 

[Rubyiris]

Tired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTssLUXEK8c&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obfbl-OXlA4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Game two as fox

Specifically match two as fox falco game was kind of poop

P:M example of late-night ****:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5WH1SzeS9w&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Awake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAw_IpnVRkg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

There's also a third level of tiredness that I hit late in tournaments after a particularly stressful set where I'm so physically and menally drained I can't even robot on people.

Also, tech skill isn't just the ability to do flashy things. It's your ability to reliably, and consistently execute what you need to do to win. Hbawks and azen are probably the most technical players in smash.

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[DerfMidWest]

No. They may be some of the most technically consistent, but not the most technically skilled, if that makes sense.

 

[Jockmaster]

Yeah just because Hbox doesn't miss an l cancel ever doesn't mean hes more technically skilled than silentwolf

 

[Beat!]

I've always considered Hbox to be more technical than Silent Wolf/Dark etc. Execution and ability to do flashy stuff are both highly related to technical proficiency, but the former is way, way more important than the latter if you want to perform well in tournament.

Also, judging by the fact that Hbox, Armada and maybe PP are the only* ones with that level of consistency, I'd say it's also harder to achieve.



*honorable mentions to M2K vs non-top level players and pre-2010 Mango.

No. They may be some of the most technically consistent, but not the most technically skilled, if that makes sense.

It really doesn't. Being more consistent means they have much more control over their button inputs. That's technical "skill" to me.

 

[Cactuar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-dependent_learning

Smash is also an exercise in fine motor control. It is far better to practice delicate movements when you are fresh and alert if your intent is to fine tune and solidify your muscle memory (movement towards consistency in general rhythm and technical consistency).

It sounds to me like your issue is that you spend too much time on autopilot and being emotionally vacant, not that your tech skill is dependent on your level of exhaustion.



State dependent learning is something everyone who plays high constantly should be aware of.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Thats stupid (@beat).
Consistency and overall technical mastery are related, but not the same thing.

 

[Beat!]

Yes, that would be a stupid thing to say. Good thing that wasn't what I actually said, unless you're implying that your definition of "overall technical mastery" is what Dark and Silent Wolf does in their showoff videos, in which case I'd say you're the one underestimating how hard it is to reach the level of execution the players I mentioned in my last post (particularly Hbox and Armada) possess.

Consistency is definitely not the "same thing as overall technical mastery", but I think it gets overlooked far too often because everyone is busy drooling over multishine turnaround platform wavelands. Not saying those aren't cool, and definitely not taking credit away from "tech artists". Just trying to make a point.


At the end of the day, though, "tech skill" is a pretty loosely defined term, so I think it's fairly pointless to continue this discussion. I just wanted to highlight the possibility that what Hbox does isn't quite as braindead-easy as some people make it out to be.

 

[Cactuar]

Technical ability is the raw mechanical ability to press the buttons and point the stick in the directions required, fast enough to perform the technique desired.

Technical timing is incorporated into movement, and not related to action timing, which is a component of attacking an opponent. Technical timing is high when the number of frames lost during and between actions is low. Good technical timing leads to fluidity.

Technical consistency is the ability to perform simple to complex actions consistently. As it increases, you stall out less and more often perform the actions that you intend to perform.

Hbox has very good timing and consistency, and has the necessary technical ability to play his main. I don't understand why people attempt to give him **** over it, its not his fault his character has a low tech ability ceiling.

Things are only loosely defined if you choose to let them be loosely defined. >.>

 

[Beat!]

Which one of those translates to "tech skill", and can you guarantee that I'll get the same answer if I ask 10 random smashers the same question?

It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that when someone comes in and is all like "y0 hbawks has n0 tech skillz d4rk 4lyfe" I think it's fairly safe to assume that their definition isn't the same as yours.

 

[Cactuar]

That's like asking a fellow student in class to explain something instead of raising your hand and asking the teacher.

If you had to explain techskill in a generic way, the fastest method would be to say its combination of those three factors.

 

[Beat!]

Caught your pre-edit

Why would you ask for the opinion of 10 random players over mine?

Because I wasn't arguing with you, whose definition(s) of the term is almost identical to mine. I was arguing with someone who clearly had a different definition from mine. For the purposes of our discussion, the term was, in fact, loosely defined, which is why I suggested we drop it. If we (vanir and I) both agreed on, say, your definition (I wouldn't have any problems with that) then it would be a different story.

That's like asking a fellow student in class to teach you something instead of raising your hand and asking the teacher.

This metaphor only holds water if vanir. accepts your definition(s), because otherwise it has nothing do with our discussion.

 

[Cactuar]

The point of that statement was more that... the resources exist on the forum to provide you with a definition. For your sake, you shouldn't waste time having an argument over things like that. Just ask someone to step in if you don't have the answer yourself. Saying that it is loosely defined is basically spreading misinformation, which slows progress for everyone.

The correct response to me providing a definition would have just been "okay, that works as a basis, can we agree and use this for further statements regarding tech skill?" I'm just providing stuff for free, what you and him choose to do with it is your business.

This sounds way more serious than it should due to written word removing inflection. I was just wandering through conversation and figured I'd define it for you.

 

[Beat!]

For your sake, you shouldn't waste time having an argument over things like that.

... that's why I was trying to end it. :/

But yeah okay, "loosely defined" may have been a poor choice of words. I guess I should've added "for the purposes of our discussion" from the beginning.

This sounds way more serious than it should due to written word removing inflection. I was just wandering through conversation and figured I'd define it for you.

I'm always serious. This is my serious face. Can't you see how serious I am?

Seriously though, I appreciated the input. I just think we talked past each other. =)

 

[Cactuar]

People think I troll because my serious face looks like this:

**

 

[It's me Q]

Hurray for aspergers, making the boards tiringly unreadable, one thread at a time

 

[Rubyiris]

Cactuar is the homie, giving me lots of cool tthings to read.

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