I'd say that's pretty accurate to the MU, though I'm curious as to why you say to strike SV on an aggressive Diddy, wouldn't the stage be like FD where he can camp you out?
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Also, for ICs/Ness, I just finished a conversation w/ @
Phresh123
about it on FB, here's what we discussed:
First thing that I'm just gonna summarize since it's scattered throughout the convo between organizing later tourneys for all of the Northeast to go to: I didn't talk about the set initially, I was just talking about future tournaments and an idea I have that I'm bringing up to the other SG directors. Phresh said I was the most patient Ness he's played and was good at adapting, he agrees w/ my analysis quite a bit and with Damp's comment that he should've gone for Dthrow CGs instead of Dthrow dair regrabs since I was SDIing those, and NZA didn't play the MU correctly since he went for so many grabs and didn't space PKFires correctly
Here's the main discussion:
Phresh:
Now just finished watching G1, and what I can say is that were both some very paitent players. You were killing Nana so well, capitalizing on her every chance you got. Your SDI's was on point and Damp is right that I should just go for straight D-throw.
I also noticed how well you played on the platforms. Retreating with PK Fire is a great tool. There were times when I thought I had the grab and somehow you'd just SDI from the last move I got off, or seeemingly dodged my grab. I keep getting punished with Bairs, and whats crazy Is that I knew they were coming but its harder to stop it then I thought.
So G2 i kinda feel like you only lost because the stage was small, or at least you didn't do "as" well because of that. I was able to WD OOS & WD Jab alot more since the horizontal range on YS is small as hell.
I did notice that you used PK fire a ton alot in this game, and they were doing very well. Bairs also was killing me fairly medium percents. But yeah, It definately was the stage that helped me get the easy kills.
You still played it smart though, but i think next time you may wanna op for a similar stage but larger; something like battlefield.
Harmak:
I figured that the more platforms I had, the better since I could camp a lot more easily and I'd have another option to retreat to in the top platform of YS. I didn't know what the size of the stage would do for the matchup though, so I tried to go for a small one, not knowing how it would be easier for you to convert into a CG -> fair edgeguard or poke me a bunch.
Phresh: I wonder how our match would go if we played on like Dreamland
Harmak:
Definitely would've timed out, the biggest problem I had was I thought that I needed to get as much damage on you as I could G1 so I didn't lose when the game reached to time, but you capitalized and took the stock as a result. If I caught onto that and went to a larger stage like DP or DL, then I hopefully wouldn't have run in at the end and there might've been a G3
Phresh:
Yeah I literally sat and watched what moves I did too within the last minute. Ice climbers are so strong when they're together that I racked up about 60-80 with like synced dair, u-air.
Crazy, I never played a game and timed out and/or got timed out! Usually dwells down to the final minute before someone dies, but the paitence you have really caught me by surprise.
I play Boiko alot, and he's nowhere near as paitent. Trys to go in and gets punished super hard for it. Here's a recent vid of me beating his ness:
http://youtu.be/dfSpdNvErLg
Same stage also.
Harmak:
Immediately looked at what stage G2 was
Not knowing the result of G1's set, was that your CP or his? Because I try to avoid SV vs. Brawl/Sm4sh players when in PM. Also ICs are super good on flat stages, from what I've learned watching both Melee and Brawl.
Watched G1
Boiko's pressure was immaculate on the first stock, he didn't let you breathe and didn't do any unsafe things that would've gotten him grabbed
However, when he tried to replicate the pressure later, he was using fairs more, which aren't safe on shield, and he was positioning himself less carefully so he got grabbed more often which led to the kill conversions. I'd argue that the kind of pressure that he had on stock 1 is a different playstyle that Ness/ICs can go in Ness's favor for the full match, but it's sooo much harder to pull off right than the slow & patient game
Mostly because you always need to think about what move you'll do, where you are in the relation of your opponent, and how you plan on separating Nana/Popo without giving a window to save
All while putting on the pressure, which in itself takes a pretty high APM
I was doing it in small bouts in my set vs. you, but I don't think I could hold that up for an extended time like Boiko tried to do there.
Phresh:
Hmm trying to remember now, but I do believe that either he picked that stage or just didnt care on what stage we played on.
But yeah his pressure game is no joke, G2 he was on me full pressure, which lead him to the 3 stock, but G3 he slowed down the pressuring and got grabbed early in the match, which led to me JV 3 stocking.
His style of play is somewhat of a risk reward thing; as shown in G2 its a reward because he can stop all my upcoming moves with keeping the "consistent" pressure. Notice how i used quotation marks around consistent, because once he stops and gives me space and neutral, its back to the basics of him getting grabbed.
Harmak:
Finished watching the set, G2 and G3 were amazing to watch
G2 because of the way he relentlessly put on the pressure and how crazy that was to watch, G3 because of how, once he started to hold back even a little bit, his plan fell to pieces and you were able to get the grabs on him
But G3 backs up why I think going so hard on the pressure can hurt in the end - because of how exhausting it can be and how risky it is to get in the ICs's faces w/o getting punished, the tactic gets worse over time. It seems to work really well with the heavy neutral though because you can "refresh" yourself between those moments of pressure safely and stay on top of the mental game
Phresh:
Yeah that is true! I dont think Ness should be super pressure mode all the time. One simple mistake can cost him a whole stock. Not to mention, i can thow ice blocks at Ness recovery and that can gimp him at an early percentage.
If we were to put a final verdit i'd really say Ness favor BUT it's stage dependable highly, and it's a waiting game. Depends on who throws out what and how one can capitalize off of it which distains to the winner.
Harmak: I'd agree with that
EDIT: The discussion was reopened after a little bit, here's what we've talked about so far:
Phresh:
Boiko:
Nanapult blizzards in conjunction with ice blocks make getting him on ICs difficult.
This is so true, i almost forgot about Nanpault blizzards
I can literally jump over pk fires with this and SOMEWHAT capitalize if your still in hitstun from the blizzard
Harmak:
I'm pretty sure you used this vs. me in our set on G1, lemme go back and see why it didn't work (making this assumption because it doesn't have a lasting impression on me for why the match had been so close)
Phresh:
Yes I did use It, but you were racking up damage alot on Nana throughout the game; didn't wanna risk losing her for a couple percent on you.
Harmak:
You used it early in the set before it became apparent that I was gonna play patient and even before I pressured you
Watched through the game, you used it 2 times total:
Right at the beginning of the game, you used it to try and catch an approach. I took the opportunity to get right beneath her, and since it seems like you weren't expecting it, I was able to put on the first bit of pressure in the game and really capitalize on Nana being away from you. I managed to get beneath you by edge canceling an aerial PKF then carrying that momentum into a DJC aerial. I must've racked up ~60 or 70% on Nana
The second time, I was on the platform and instead, I went over her and changed my position to be on the other side of the stage. Because of it, Nana was so desynced from Popo that I was able to get a bair on her a few seconds afterwards. It put you into a defensive position where you had to get away from me
Other times you hit me with a desynced blizzard, I SDI'd it in a way that prevented you from getting a grab, similar to how people would SDI Ness's PKF
Will edit in more when the convo is finished, currently waiting for a response
EDIT 2: I was expecting a bit more of a response, but he just said that I'm good at picking up things, then we started talking about Paragon
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