MU Disscussion: JIGGLYPUFF

[Xyro77]

How do we win?
What do we watch out for?
Stages to BAN/CP?
Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
Videos?
MU classification?




Remember, we are not using the "mu ratio" scheme anymore. Describe the MU using the following MU classifications:


Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage

 

[Zanx8]

I only played one Jigglypuff, but when it comes to winning you want to use the heat seeking missiles, Zair is good since she's in the air almost all the time, and keep yourself from getting hit by a lot of aerials. Knowing where and what jump Jigglypuff will land on. Killing shouldn't be too hard if you punish Jigglypuff's landings correctly. Jigglypuff is obviously going to try gimping you any chance possible. Our ground game is better than Jigglypuff's, but Jigglypuff's aerial game is definitely a lot better. She can cancel out missiles with a few aerials. Her main kill move would be fair. Samus of course is going to have some trouble being up close as always.
Stages to CP I would pick either Halberd or PS1.
Stages to ban is Brinstar/RC (if they are legal), not sure what else to ban.
I would say slight advantage or even.
Sorry if I'm not too good/knowledgeable yet, but this is my input.

 

[Sarix]

For this MU it is a very bad idea to take Jigglypuff head on in the air as her air speed and air game allow her to break through our air game most of the time. While our ground game is better, Jigglypuff's height can make it difficult to utilize but downward angled Ftilts help keep our spacing. Typically mid range is best against her as she has poor range on most of her attacks and we can retaliate on any whiffs and pressure her to approach. Neither char is good at killing but I would say it's in our favor there because Jigglypuff is the lightest and floatiest character in the game making our Dtilt and Dsmash kill at rather low percentages compared to usual.

Our biggest concern is Jigglypuff getting into our face from the air and being able maintain a good pressure game, but like in the Peach MU, Samus is good at shutting down opposing air games. Outside of Fair Jigglypuff relies on gimping for KOs and Samus is a very difficult character to gimp when the are recovering smartly. Outside of close range Jigglypuff is fighting an uphill battle as none of her moves have fantastic range.

Overall I would say it's a +1 to possibly +2 for Samus. It mostly comes from how she can effectively shut down Jigglypuff's greatest asset, her air game.

 

[evmaxy54]

If Jigglypuff is in your face, you could OoS Screw Attack.
Also, Jigglypuff can go underneath Super Missiles by DACUS & hit you when you're not expecting it so be careful about that.

 

[Zanx8]

OoS Screw Attack isn't too reliable, but it is an option. I personally wouldn't do it on FD or where I may not have many safe spots to land quickly. I wouldn't risk the chance of Jigglypuff landing something dumb for a kill like rest or whatever. Thanks for the info about the DACUS though. I mainly super missile when she is in the air anyways.

 

[evmaxy54]

OoS Screw Attack isn't too reliable, but it is an option. I personally wouldn't do it on FD or where I may not have many safe spots to land quickly. I wouldn't risk the chance of Jigglypuff landing something dumb for a kill like rest or whatever.

You've got a point.

One of the posts in Jigglypuff boards for this match-up said that Jiggly can cancel a fully charged shot with pound but I doubt that's true. I tried it out a few times on training mode with no prevail, though I'll test more stuff tomorrow.
Regarding rest, it's mostly follows up from dair (trust me it's actually pretty fun to do ^_^ & something most jigglypuff users would/should know), but you would need to trip to make it work (& the jigglypuff to actually hit you with rest, but samus shouldn't be too hard too hit though).
Yeah, sorry if I'm repeating stuff you already know.

 

[Zanx8]

In Melee Jigglypuff can with nair LOL. I'm not too sure what can, but that's interesting to know. It's okay if you repeat things we know because we're talking about it in the right place. We might as well state how dash attack could kill at higher %. Even though it is rarely used it is something to keep in mind.
What would you consider the best way to punish rests? Charge a shot is what I do, then use forward smash/down tilt/up tilt. Since I honestly don't like wasting charge shots like that considering it has more chances to land than the other three I listed at times.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

sub'd

remind me to write tomorrow

 

[evmaxy54]

I found out pound CAN cancel a fully charged shot, problem is that it was slightly stale (by 2 shots) & it's quite hard to do (it would need to hit it from the top or bottom), it seems a bit impractical.

I don't know too much of the match-up, since I'm not very good with Samus & I've haven't played any good Jigglypuffs period, I think it would be roughly +1 for Samus just for projectile spam. But Jiggly's air game is really good & combine that with Samus' floatiness, I would probably think that Samus would take quite a fair bit of damage before landing.

 

[Fuujin]

Now yall know nobody even uses either of these flop characters.

I don't see how a MU discussion will even be possible.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Doesn't hurt to have something to talk about, regardless of relevance.
Go back to Zelda boards mang.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

****ing Fuuijin.

Okay.
So pretty much this entire match is just us trying to weave around your projectiles as you retreating zair and missile.
pound beats all your projectiles but zair if you consider that a projectile... idk how that works.
IT's not a good or even... theory worthy mindset to use pound to counter those but yeah

Mostly, with missiles i'll nair them to approach because nair > missiles.

It's hard to poke samus because of her OoS UpB butby baiting it we can get some good punishes. Offstage we can do some good juggling. From far away it's hard for us to get in, but once we do it's not difficult for us to rack up some damage.

IMO, it's slight advantage you, but not enough to be -1

 

[Zanx8]

You got it Mink. Fuujin, we have to start MU discussions somewhere. There is low tier events in tournaments so you never know. :I Thanks for the info about the charged shot though.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Stage wise, your OoS works better on BF because of that top platform. Though, puff works really well with platforms. I would ban FD immediately.

You need to watch out for recovering at stage height. Go above that, you won't make it back.

And i actually have some OLD vids of me vs samus if you want them.
But they were back when i was kinda ***.

Lets see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp9VyDVxHoI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fqy51zvlms&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OninveNfcD8&feature=relmfu


Once again these are old as ****
I'll try and get some replays vs my friend who plays samus. Those are two years old.

 

[Sarix]

Great writeup Mink. I honestly don't consider Zair a projectile though.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Thanks. I can answer anyones questions if they have any.

I don't think any other puff players utilize OoS Rest like i'm beginning to but it works best on floaty characters who hit a tiny bit aboe the shield since she pops up when she oos rests.

So watch your spacing on your sh dairs on shield.

Also, our crouch is very good in this mu, under your projectiles, grab, normal angles fsmash.
And we can buffer a DACUS from crouch too.

 

[Zanx8]

Thanks for the write up, hopefully I will know what to do vs Puff next time instead of winging stuff.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

If you retreating zair and keep us out with utilts it'll be tough for us to get in.

 

[Zanx8]

I'll keep that in mind, I need to up tilt more as an anti air anyways. The videos helped me understand things a little bit more. So when you crouch something like non angled forward smash how would Jigglypuff punish it anyways?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Dash attack, dtilt, fair, dair to follow up or just grab.

 

[Zanx8]

Okay, one last question. (For now at least.) What moves beat Jigglypuff's N-air approach? Since it does beat missiles. I'm guessing up tilt or something? Sorry if these aren't the best questions, just trying to make sure I have nothing left out.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Zair beats it.
Nair is a pretty bad approach to use, you're forced to sit there for almost a full second if not more.
Utilt will clash unless spaced right. Bair should be able to beat it. U-angled Fsmash.

 

[Aidoony]

JUST SHOOT STUFF